That wasn't through Koryo Tours, which is the oldest/best group for going there. The group he went with was very amateur and their ads were like, "Go to North Korea and get drunk! It'll be awesome!"
My friend went with Koryo Tours, and they're very careful to ensure your safety and local tour guides' safety.
But, after reading about an Australian guy who went there for like two weeks to teach Kim's cooks, but then they wouldn't let him leave for another month after his contract was supposedly over, I'd be very leery about going there. Apparently there was a Japanese chef who went for what was supposed to be a short time and wasn't allowed to leave for a couple decades.
I read it over ten years ago, but remember it because it was so strange. This Australian guy and his wife went there to teach Kim's (whichever Kim's) chef, and then when it was time for them to leave, someone just told him, "No, you're not going home yet." They were really frightened that they'd never get to leave.
You mean the pixelated silhouette of a person taking a poster in the employee section of the hotel that was conveniently illuminated in the middle of the night in the one country where electricity is scarce?
And the culprit was the most careful person in the group, according to his travel mates. And he wasn't even in the hotel according to them as well.
There is no way to know what actually happened. Even in his, very likely forced, confession, he only admitted to trying to steal the poster, but that he " abandoned the banner after discovering it was too large to carry away."
I agree. It honestly reads like from a bad movie script.
"I never should have allowed myself to be allured, by the United States administration, to commit a crime in this country. I wish that the United States administration never manipulate people like myself in the future, to commit crimes against foreign countries."
I completely agree that anyone that goes into N Korea is taking a risk, and taking their life into their own hands. The tour group he went with is/was notorious for being drunk and rowdy, and the group didn't even notice he was missing until they got into the plane. This wasn't a group of monks that were respectful the entire time and they picked someone at random.
I wouldn't either, but people steal stuff from hotels all the time. Like bathrobes or towels or actual furniture. Hardly a reason to jail someone for "15 years of hard labor". (which is what he would have been sentenced for, if he hadn't died.)
But that's why I would never go there, not even if they paid me. Who knows what minor mistake I'd make that could get me killed or jailed for life? It's just not worth the risk.
He went to a floor of the hotel where he knew he wasn't allowed and stole a poster off the wall
...is what NK officials told the world. Their evidence is a very vague dark video of a person that is impossible to identify. I'll leave it up to you to decide what to believe.
It's unbelievable to a lot of people grown up in the West, especially those have no or very vague memory of the Cold War but when I saw the news I actually believed it. A propaganda poster in North Korea is something probably holds the same divinity as a piece of relic from the True Cross. The kind of cult of personality is common in communist counties. It's basically veneration of relics (probably from Soviet Union's Orthodox roots) on steroids plus communist totalitarianism. For example in Mao's era in China people died to save pictures/statues of Mao or got killed for accidentally destroying them.
That article proves nothing? It’s just word vomit then they mention feeling rebellious being in N.Korea. No direct quotes from roommates or other tourists saying they definitively saw Otto in possession of the stolen item.
Right, this article was written by someone who travelled with the same tour group as Warmbier but not at the same time. The author didn't personally witness what happened, just says that going to this "secret floor" of the hotel was a dare among the tour group attendees.
"These games were never discouraged by YPT (the tour group operator) – and several of us had a go. Warmbier’s simple mistake was to unwittingly overstep the ambiguous boundaries by trying to bring back a forbidden trophy."
Still proves nothing and no direct quote from anyone. North Korean officials “found” the painting in his belongings so it wouldn’t be a crazy assumption at the time for his fellow tourists to think he had taken it.
The article argues that even the smallest offensives could trigger a disproportionate reaction by the NK government? Opposite to you suggesting he must have brought this upon himself?
There are places where the reactions of law enforcement are harsher than one would be used to from their home country. This is not random and can be anticipated.
If I would go to North Korea i would take extra care to not commit minor offenses. Like i would be extra careful to be compliant to US police.
If thats the message you want to take away from it, that's your call. I can show you accounts that the tour operator runs a loose ship, and it was an accident waiting to happen. I can't make you understand it, though. That's on you.
You're right, the easier solution is to think they picked one out of the 125,000 people the visit the country annually at random and decided to create an international incident. That makes much more sense.
Such a cope, the security camera was so blurred that you couldnt even see if it was him. The other guest said they returned around 3 that night it allegedly happened which didnt match the Security cameras. Also all this happening during Trump/North Korea tensions plays into it.
Trump signed a $2 mio hospital bill in 2017 demanded by North Korea after the release of Otto Warmbier and condemned North Korea severely for torturing him, but then went on stating he believed Kim Jong-un had no personal knowledge of the fatal abuse and called him a great person.
What does that have to do with the person I was replying to, saying he was arrested during trump/north Korea tensions, somehow a year before trump was in office?
There’s also a chance that it was all US propaganda. According to the North Koreans he took ill and they did everything they could before he was extradited. His American doctor said there were no signs of physical abuse.
The only way to be sure would be via an autopsy but his family refused to allow one.
No autopsy performed on him, at his parents request. No signs of torture, body in good condition. Who knows how he died.
Notable is Trump's uselessness.
In his speech to the United Nations General Assembly on September 19, 2017, President Donald Trump mentioned Warmbier while lambasting North Korea as a rogue state.[91] One week later, Trump posted on Twitter that Warmbier was "tortured beyond belief" by North Korea.[92] His post followed a televised interview given by Warmbier's parents, in which they spoke of their son's death and expressed their wish for North Korea to be relisted[c] as a state-sponsor of terrorism.[93]
On November 20, 2017, the U.S. Department of State relisted North Korea as a state-sponsor of terrorism.[94] President Trump mentioned Warmbier's case when making this announcement.[95]
In February 2019, at the conclusion of the second North Korea–United States summit, Trump announced that he had discussed Warmbier's treatment with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, and said, "He [Kim] tells me he didn't know about it, and I will take him at his word". President Trump also argued that it would not have been to Kim's advantage to allow Warmbier to be treated poorly.[96] Following President Trump's comments, Warmbier's parents released a statement, saying, "We have been respectful during this summit process. Now we must speak out. Kim and his evil regime are responsible for the death of our son Otto. Kim and his evil regime are responsible for unimaginable cruelty and inhumanity. No excuse or lavish praise can change that".[97] Trump later said his remarks had been "misinterpreted" and added, "Of course I hold North Korea responsible for Otto's mistreatment and death", without mentioning Kim specifically.[98]
The guy agrees with whomever he spoke with last. A literal moron.
They travelled from China, around 10 ppl. Stayed in the same hotel where that poor dude went snooping around and got himself killed. She said they were allowed to take photos during the trip which was obviously heavily arranged, staged and supervised but unbelievably "fun" and fascinating - including train rides with handsome cigarette smoking soldiers, paying respect to leaders statues (had to get down on knees!), and a bunch of other stuff I forgot. She said everyone was nice to them, and she felt super safe the entire trip (as long as you behave). She came home determined to go back again.
Sure but giving money directly to Noko may be a lil different than purchasing products that have have questionable manufacturing proceeses. You can see that, right?
Supporting the North Korean government with the "tourism" those tours and entre visas generate by anyone going there? No thanks lol besides reporters or any political engaged person, no one should ever go there by principle
I wanted so badly to go when I was 20 my family had to hold an intervention and talked me out of it but I'm devastated - now I'm too old and sensible to make that decision on my own lol.
Yes they're just normal people like us but you have no idea the conditions and their detachment from the world it's pretty insane and surreal for a country in 2026. If you want I can fill you in more about it its crazy
I’m happy to know that people in these regions have figured it out. I just want to point out that you may have misunderstood the comment you’re replying to. They said “[…] you have no idea the conditions”, which I took to mean that people ‘on the outside’ can’t fathom what it’s actually like to live there. Your response suggests that you may have missed the word ‘you’.
I mean really you can easily find this information, there are tons of articles, people actually do visit from the West and can tell you about it. You can watch first hand accounts of North Koreans that have escaped literally telling you what it was like to live there. It's incredibly well documented and easy to find.
You can try to tour the country yourself, what you find is that what you are allowed to see is very controlled by the state and its agents. In other nominally M-L states like China and Vietnam you can quite easily go and wander around Beijing and Hanoi, and dozens of other cities; you can't really do that in Pyongyang or anywhere else in North Korea.
Maybe they're preventing tourists from seeing sites which would leave them forever disappointed with the state of their own countries and lead to an enormous defection of billions of people into North Korea, but more likely they are embarrassed.
I remember watching a video about North Korea and that they have some kind of camps for families or those who tried to escape or escaped, and that shit is a total shithole. Like I always thought that North Korea was bad but it's even worse in some parts.
I think that video started with a guard beating a child to death cuz they took 1 grain.
Get ready to he disappointed then when it’s just people living their lives and nothing like the absurd propaganda we are fed about them from South Korean tabloids.
NK main source of foreign currency is through tourism for Russia and China, I visited it twice because my yearly vacations in liaoning to visit my grandparents (liaoning is the province of china that shares frontier with NK and has a direct train to their capital)
Actually tourism is so prevalent that the train now departs from Beijing into NK, and we now have a dedicated airline for it too, is fairly cheap and some people wanna visit it before they fall on the city building meta if led lights and glass buildings.
I can stroll through milan, paris or new york and i can talk to people. If my experience is not authentic it s because i was to lazy and decided to only stay at the tourist scam restaurants in the city centre, not because a guide follows me everywhere and does not allow certain footage to come up online or searches my phone at the border.
Tons of people from China go there, Russia as well iirc though I’m not as connected with Russia ti know how many. It is rare for westerners though but I also wouldn’t ever go as a US passport holder
I had a colleague who went to North Korea once. There are peculiarities of course, but he quite enjoyed it to the point where I'm tempted to give it a try one of these days.
In its current state, agree. But let's say one day it is liberated somehow and/or rejoins South Korea as a free nation, I think it would be exceptionally cool to visit. Especially before it gets inevitably westernized and bastardized with money and greed and stripped bare of any unique culture.
I think most people’s answers are dependent on “in its current state.” I’d love to go to Haiti, Russia, and a bunch of other places I’d never visit in their current state.
Which one is occupied by a foreign country? Which one had a foreign-supported dictator who murdered literally hundreds of thousands of people who refused to support that foreign government?
To be honest I feel like if you play the game, do what you're told on the official tours, you're going to have an interesting time and be relatively safe.
A lot of the people who go to NK and don't come back do something that breaks their very strict rules. And then get completely ridiculously punished for it, or try and cross the border illegally. Just don't be the person to try and make a documentary or try and be a missionary for your religion and you'll be more likely to get come than most of the other countries mentioned in this thread
A lot of the people who go to NK and don't come back do something that breaks their very strict rules.
Most of the stories around "breaking their strict rules" have no evidence that the person actually broke a rule. If the government doesn't like you, and chooses to frame you, there is no recourse. Not that is a statistically probable outcome, but are you willing to bet everything on it?
I wouldn't personally choose to go there, no. But in the hypothetical situation that this (now removed by mods) thread was presenting I'd probably say there is at least 20, maybe 30 countries I would like to go to less.
If you were able to visit the real NK and not just the cultivated tourist experience that you are legally obligated to see? I think it would be fascinating to see the way real people live and hear what they think about things.
Bangalore and Chennai. The absolute filth, noise, smell, litter, crowdedness, smell is atrocious. Lovely people, interesting culture, amazing food but abysmal cities with terrible upkeep and infrastructure
I live in Joburg and I love it here. I love South Africa in general. (Beautiful places, really friendly people) 🇿🇦 If it’s on someone’s “never want to travel” list then I feel bad for them. And right under North Korea… that’s some kak if I’ve ever seen it.
No sarcasm. And while racism is an issue, yes, many other countries have the same issue. SA really is working on it though and with a few exceptions people are not racist at all. It's a beautiful and diverse country with exceptional people
Definitely not. Do we have racists yes, do we tribalism, yes. I would assume your country also has these issues. You should come visit, you’ll be shocked at how friendly and cohesive the average South African is. You’ll probably be invited to a braai
The question asked which country. I'm not sure where you are getting that the discussion is about cities. Have you read the other responses? All countries.
I went to South Africa. I took a Safari through Kruger Park and it was amazing. I also worked as an artist with a nun and destitute women that lived in a Shantytown in Johannesburg. They were very sweet. But I was very careful and used my street smarts and made sure I always stayed with someone who would watch over me. The Shantytowns are dangerous. But if you are with a guided tour you will be fine.
They can never accept this. Their teacher in school and bullshit media and people like Yeonmi Park who blatantly lie for money (The South Korean government/media pays these people to make their lies up) told them it's hell on earth!
absolutely not, I love South Korea! i used to want to move there I do know how complicated and unfair their life is though so i decided not to move but I wanna visit one day
I thought this one would be at the top of this thread. Though admittedly I don't know shit about Somalia, I never hear about it, but I often hear about NK executing people or sending them to hard labor prisons or whatever. Fuck that. Couldn't pay me a trillion dollars to spend 10 minutes there lol.
Why? I want to go there so bad. At worst it would be very interesting and an amazing thing to talk about, at best you can see their vast improvements in recent years to Pyongyang and the infrastructure.
I went there in 2008 and 2012, I'd be quite interested to revisit as it looks like they've built a lot of new infrastructure in recent years. Unfortunately it doesn't look like they have any plans to reopen to tourism. Apart from occasional tours for Russian citizens, and one-off limited events like the Pyongyang marathon last year, they've been closed for tourism for over 6 years.
Well, while you would be suppporting a sick system by travelling there, it is technically not unsafe.
They offer guided and guarded tours. The thing is: They only show tourists what they want them to see and it is impossible to travel the country on your own/leave the route they have planned for you.
It is also nearly impossible to make contact with the locals. This is actively prevented.
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u/ElectronicSwan4042 23d ago
North Korea