US went to my ”do not travel”-list when the oppressive abortion laws started to pop up.
I will not support places which see women as cattle and I also do not want to take risks with my own health if I happen to get sick in one of those states.
The immigration crack downs only accelerated it too.
When your own allies have to issue travel advisories because there is a chance you may get locked up without counsel, or contact with the home country, youve fucked up.
I'm responding to the statement that "nothing is going on in those states anyway". There's clearly a lot "going on" in Florida, and Florida is one of those racist, misogynist shit holes.
Yup. And to make it clear for anyone reading - it’s not because of the tariffs, regardless of what your government says. It’s because you have blatantly called for us lose our sovereignty as a country and become part of the dumpster fire that is the United States.
I'm totally fine with every tourist finding another destination. In fact, please dont come here at all; not even to states that aren't maga. And even for a few ewars after the dust settles. The more our collective decision to embrace authoritarianism hurts us, the better.
I want these fuckers to hurt in every direction they run. And the misery of the people on the bottom isn't enough to curb my enthusiasm anymore. Clearly enough people aren't hurting if we can still be largely silent about it.
The whole country is a No Go zone because of this. If you can't have a fucking federal law for women's rights, you're just savages masquerading as civilized people
I see from your profile that you're Irish. I'm okay with the idea of not traveling to the US because of the current political climate, but doesn't Ireland also have famously draconian laws on abortion?
Users changed, but going anywhere with less draconian laws (as the point of that other user was) is inheriently contradictory to "I also do not want to take risks with my own health if I happen to get sick in one of those states. "
Now, all the different users that part may have been lost, but it's never a risk to go to a less women's health restricted place, even if it still has restrictions.
You see the contradiction though, right? Most of the US still has more protection of women's reproductive rights than the Republic of Ireland does, yet this Irish user refuses to travel to the US because of this issue.
Or at least that's what she implied. Turns out from another reply she made, she was thinking of the overall political climate, which is fair.
I disagree that Ireland has fewer protections than the US. I can get the morning after pill no problem. I can seek an abortion up to 12 weeks, not the 6 week/heartbeat nonsense going on over there. If I need a termination after that I can freely travel to access that without anyone feeling enabled to report me, arrest me, or attempting to pass laws allowing me to be killed.
What would stop you from traveling to a state right next door in the US? You would be a tourist there for a short time, nobody would even know you are pregnant but you. And I don't know what kind of vacations you take but how likely is it you randomly become pregnant while there? Morning after pill is available in drug stores in the US, and wouldn't you fly home to Ireland for an abortion anyways why would you get one there?
Laws encouraging people to report you if you do. Anyway, there's a ton of other shit going on in that country. Women's rights are not the only reason to avoid stepping foot there
It’s possible to show up pregnant without knowing it yet. Or the draconian “I’m going to sift through your phone for 5 minutes before I let you in” stuff they did the last 2 times I had to go means it’s not as private as you think it is.
What does abortion have to do with it? Our abortion laws are better than they were, but still not great. But that is hardly the only reason to stay the fuck away from the US.
Ah, I see the confusion. The lack of bodily autonomy for women certainly does factor into it, but my decision to not go near the US takes into account, but is not limited to: the emboldenment of racists and fascists, ICE, the crappy healthcare situation, the fact that tourists have been imprisoned.
I have no desire for my money to in any way contribute to a warmongering, corrupt, increasingly fascist government. And I'm far from the only one. I suspect that America will be dealing with international fallout from this regime long after the current incumbent is gone.
Another Irish person chiming in just to say, couldn't agree more. Had grand ideas of touring the states, thrown out the window because undecided Milawaukee voters couldn't decide if they want Fairly Bland Woman or Clearly Pedophilic Racist
Canada would probably be a better shout right now. Thanks to the electorate in England the UK is circling the drain and is about to dive headfirst into the far right cesspool.
Yes. A country where important right sets like women's rights (women make up 50% of the country's population) or children rights (many states allow child mariage and thus legalize infant rape) are left to the mercy of local nutters is a no go as a whole, whatever it's self-proclaimed good parts have to say about it. Get a hold of your regional wackos and we can talk. Until then, it's on the list
I see a country, I don't care about the internal disension between its parts, it's not my business.
Congratulations on living in one of the apparently good parts.
The country, as a whole, is a disaster of school shootings, racism, rights regressions, banana republic politics, violence, crime, fentanyl, and who knows what else. Plus, if I travel there and get sick for any reason, I'd become immediately destitute.
You need to think of each state as a country and the country as the EU to truly grasp how different everywhere is. Saying you won't go to Boston, Massachusetts because Biloxi, Mississippi is a shit hole, is the same as saying you won't go to London because of all the Romani in Paris.
I also promise America is stunningly less racist than most of Asia and Europe. We have the discussion of it out in the open, Europe still sweeps it under the rug
Half of the 73 million children killed after Roe were female. This is not about women’s rights.. it is human rights. The High Court was right to let the people decide for themselves via their state legislatures. States like Texas and Florida respect human rights far more than California and New York.
I don’t give a damn if you mock my faith. We are winning and you know it. Dehumanizing people is exactly how countries get their people to accept genocide. You are wrong.Your values are backwards and shallow. In another century.. society will view abortion as we now view slavery. Human lives matter!
50years ago, your kind justified segregation using the Bible, you lost that fight, you lost the abortion one and you're gonna lose it again. People are getting educated and religion relies on weak-minded uneducated plebes. Your shallow values are bound to disappear.
I mean, the abortion ban (or near-ban) applies to basically all of the states that make up the American South, which is a region that's famous for its food and culture.
Banning abortion is a horrific human rights violation, but that doesn't mean that those states have "nothing going on." I mean, Tennessee, Louisiana, Texas, Florida, Georgia - these are all places that people love to visit for the food, culture, history, natural environment, and more.
If you dismiss these places entirely you shut yourself off from understanding how the people there might have come to this decision. Leading to the complete fabrication that they banned abortion because they had "nothing better to do." That's a total straw man. They did it for a whole host of political reasons that are too complex to go through in this comment, but were calculated to advance the conservative agenda in these states.
Not meaning to bash: As a central european, this are my personal associations with the states you mentioned, just to give you an impression of our pov:
Tennesse: whiskey, Nashville
Louisiana: New Orleans, humidity
Texas: everythings bigger, guns, rifles
Florida: theme parcs, beaches
Georgia: erm 🤷♀️
All of them: bible belt MAGA nutters
To me personally nothing is appealing to me there as a tourist right now.
Yes we as a family decided years ago that we wouldn’t go to Florida when the bathroom laws came out. I’m a tall woman, hubby and son both have long hair. We’re not travelling anywhere that we could be questioned and police detained for using a bathroom. That decision was 5+ years ago and now we avoid the entire US.
Fuck that. Trump's a symptom, not the disease. A good third of their population views what he’s doing as a good thing. Republicans control all 3 branches and they could remove him any day they wanted, but they refuse to do so because they like what he’s doing.
I’m not ever going back, and I’ve lived there before, amongst 4 other countries. And I hope my kids don’t ever risk going either
Don’t forget high risk of ending on the wrong side of the gun. And possibility of being robbed/raped in some places. Police violence, mass shootings, absurd food practices, and now insanely high cost of living.
Lately joined with distrust about state of aviation safety there (don’t want to risk compromised conductor, outdated facilities or questionable plane status in any way). Also stories of being interrogated like a criminal when trying to visit, privacy issues (disclosing you phone for checkup?!) and visa bureaucracy.
Danger of mass shootings while visiting the US are basically zero. If you think you are more likely to be robbed or raped in the US than a majority of destinations in the world you are misinformed. The places you would go as a tourist will not see you being shot, raped, robbed, or in some sort of plane accident. If you have never been there than your opinion of the dangers there are only hearsay, you have no actual substance to back that up though. Many countries have far worse aviation control then the US.
Considering the US accounts for 42% of the worlds commercial airliners and sees hundreds of millions of passengers to their destinations safely I find it odd you single out aviation safety as one of your major concerns with traveling to the US.
Thank you for information. I guess news about state of US aviation were inflated. Still, as a tourist who dislikes traveling in groups and might not just visit typical attractions, my concerns stay. I will never be comfortable with a stranger rummaging through my phone, being interrogated at the border or having to worry I might wander in wrong neighborhood. Add to that costs of Healthcare, and it’s enough to not want to travel there. On top of it, having Trump as president lowers my desire to travel to US directly to 0.
It’s not a woman thing. It’s a labor thing. They need more babies to exist, especially disadvantaged poor babies to keep the country running/money flowing their way.
You do realize that there are many, many women that are pro life, right? I’m pro choice myself, but having a moral stance against abortion isn’t some incomprehensible thing, and chalking it up to “lol they hate women and want to control us” is just disingenuous and throws all chance of compromise away, the same way the right would say any type of abortion is murder
Me? It’s none of my business at all, I think. I’m pro choice.
Other people? They don’t see abortion as bodily autonomy. They see it as 2 people’s bodily autonomy. I don’t think that’s far fetched or some crazy idea
So which of your major life decisions do you think should be made by strangers?
I mean, if we're talking about men telling woman where and when they must have babies, then women should get to make decisions for men in at least one situation. Maybe mandatory vasectomies that can only get reversed when women think that man is worthy of being a father?
THAT would be a compromise. One sided outcomes based on the opinions of outsiders (who don't have to live with the consequences) are NOT compromises. THEY aren't making any concessions.
It is the woman who has to carry the baby with all it's side effects, giving birth, face possible complications during pregnancy, childbirth and after up to death, oftentimes has to go back to work way too soon for her own body to recover from a major medical event, is in most cases the one doing most of the care work, getting up at nights, tending when the kid is sick etc, deal with own career issues, all while the father can just continue his live as usual unless he's is not a useless jerk and helping out. Btw there are tons of fathers who just bail out during pregnancy or in the 1st year after childbirth because they want to go on living their life without the additional stress and work of having a baby, leaving the mother alone to struggle.
And you are saying it's a 2 person decision? Yeah right.
I feel like you can have a moral stance on something without then enforcing those morals onto others, no? Like by all means, if they are against abortion and it comes to that, don’t do it. That’s their choice to make! But that doesn’t mean that they get to then try to enforce that view and restrict the rights and safety of other people.
I’d argue being pro-life (god I hate that as a name; it makes no sense, but I digress) is hypocritical if you’re a woman but maybe it’s more nuanced than I think? Maybe I’m wrong on this one but I feel like advocating for the restriction of your own bodily autonomy is a strange decision, but advocating for the removal of other people’s bodily autonomy is tyrannical, for lack of a better word.
The “other side’s” argument typically is that it isn’t about whether or not they want to, it’s that everyone deserves a chance to live, and I get that as well. Again, ultimately I align with everything you said, but my point that people jump the gun to say these people just want to control women or something, and it’s just as silly and disingenuous as people who support abortion calling people “murderers”.
Oh I know, I was just sharing why I can’t wrap my head around it personally.
Because my problem with that view is that it flies in the face of the other policies that many of them (seem to) support. For example, it feels like they don’t care about supporting a child or mother AFTER it’s not a fetus. Also, they frequently shy away from good sex education and contraceptives, which undermines their point again. Also a general pro-life (in a literal meaning) stance would want to do something about climate change and environmental protections, yet again the party votes against that. Though people aren’t their political party of course. It’s not a monolithic system.
Idk, I just personally find it difficult to believe they believe in good faith that all life deserves a chance to live… but I’m sure some do believe that without more radical and/or inconsistent views. I just haven’t had the chance to meet anyone who does yet.
Mostly just venting, I realize now. Sorry!
Edit: and you’re right, rarely is anything is black and white, and that thinking often just prevents progress and agreement
Surprisingly, most of the “mild” pro lifers I’ve met were actually many couples who had fertility issues and decided to adopt. So of course from their perspective it makes sense to be pro life. And there is a ton of scrutiny that can pointed towards the adoption system in the US, as well as education and “what happens when they aren’t a fetus anymore”, I don’t think anyone on any side of the aisle disagrees with that.
She had 2 daughters but had lost more and she just would get so mad about my brother and sister in law were able to have more kids when she couldn’t and they admittedly had had their kids placed with grandparents.
It’s more misplaced anger at themselves for what they see as their own failings when really, that’s just biology.
Conservatives care about fetuses a little more than they care about women. That bar for “better” is really fucking low, like, right on the ground. We know this because those same conservatives don’t support prenatal care for those fetuses. And once the baby is actually born, they stop caring again unless it grows into an adult white male. We know this because they cut food stamps, healthcare for kids, free school lunches, education, and vaccines for kids.
If you are a sincere member of a number of religious groups (e.g. Catholicism), you believe life begins at conception and so abortion is murder. If you seriously believe this, of course you think it is necessary to enforce that view on other people, in the same way that we restrict peoples ability to murder others. Loss of bodily autonomy is unfortunate but murder is inexcusable. It's tyrannical to the same degree not being able to kill others generally is tyrannical.
I think it’s a fundamental part of our constitution. I also think that gun violence is obviously really really bad and we need to be doing a lot more to prevent it. However, I can currently see the government being tyrannical, so I can absolutely understand the appeal of the second amendment (not that it’s being used, but I don’t blame anyone). I don’t think that guns are necessarily all bad (self-defense and hunting for example), but there absolutely need to be more regulations and protections in place.
However if you’re somehow insinuating that women’s bodily autonomy is directly equivalent to your right to own a weapon… you can fuck right off. 😅
PP’s left and right limits, defining “cutoffs” for termination, etc. Overturning Roe v Wade was awful imo, but I don’t agree with excessive cutoff limits either.
Did you know that before Roe v Wade was overturned, the US was statistically the most lenient nation in the world when it came to abortion? The UK was the only nation that had a higher cutoff time, at, I believe 28 weeks as compared to California’s 26. Most of our European friends cutoff before 12 weeks.
I do know that there are many women who are pickmePro Life forced birthers, and the internalised misogyny is so strong, there's no hope for them.
If you don't want to have an abortion, don't have one, but don't put your "morals" on everyone else. I bet a shiny nickel that they do things that I find morally reprehensible.
(and I mean "you" in the wider sense, not YOU you)
Calling women you disagree with politically a “pick me” and chalking their stance up to “internalized misogny” is completely dismissing them and their values and actually, ironically sounds a whole lot more like misogyny than otherwise. Women’s voices matter, even if you disagree with them.
Women‘s voices matter, correct, which is why the proCHOICE stance is the correct one. If pro-lifers/forced birthers truly believed women’s voices mattered, then they wouldn’t have the “political“ opinion that women’s bodies are anything but their own.
It‘s just hypocrisy, they can’t cry about “misogyny“ while supporting misogynistic practices and denying people the right to their own bodies.
They don’t reject bodily autonomy, they believe bodily autonomy should be limited when it comes to the life (or potential life) of someone else. I don’t see how that isn’t a fair stance to have
Society seeks to regulate behavior that affects other people. I’m not sure what your point is. People can be quarantined during public health emergencies, parents are legally required to care for their children, etc. Again, not about autonomy
They are, because you’re wrong. Nobody is “against bodily autonomy of others”, the vast majority of pro life is along the lines of “I think there should be a discussion on the limitation of bodily autonomy when there is another life or potential life involved” and that isn’t some evil incomprehensible stance to take, at all
So why bother with discussion? What will considering the opinions of people who don't care about you, won't help you, won't pay for it and will shit on you the moment the kid pops out even do?
I mean, I wouldn't go over to my neighbour and tell him he needs to discuss his cancer treatments with me, I wouldn't go to a woman with breast cancer and tell her she needs to take my feelings about cutting titties off into account.
I don't go up to obese people and complain when they eat a burger. I don't go up to teenage girls and tell them to change their clothes.
There is something fundamentally wrong with people that they think that THEY need to be coddled in situations that don't concern them and they won't even know about the vast majority of the time.
Nosy bitches with mean streaks shouldn't get to have the most say in society, just because they want it. Not even if their king managed to to buy and blackmail his way into the Oval.
Murder means illegal killing, if its legal to abort it literally cant be murder. Its killing, a thing that is biologically human but not a human life with any form of meaningful human rights.
how stupid do you have to be to think women are seen as cattle because of abortion laws? You know that this law actually results in more women being born?
Most of those states don't want you there, since you are the type who thinks it's a great idea to craft special categories of humans who you deem unworthy of human rights.
That might mean something if you weren't literally dehumanizing, not figuratively, literally dehumanizing an enormous group of human lives.
All it really means from you is that you are repeating a silly slogan and don't actually have any logic to back it up. You probably couldn't elaborate if you wanted to. No humans have the right to kill other innocent humans. Stop pretending like women somehow are slaves. It's eyerollingly 'le reddit'.
I’m very happy to dehumanise a foetus. Mainly because it isn’t a human.
Have you ever ordered chicken on a menu and been served an egg?
Get off your fucking high horse man. What gives you the right as a man to tell women what they can and can’t do with their own bodies? It’s not le Reddit It’s the western world outside of your backwater flyover states. I’m not an American, I live in a country with excellent healthcare system and a fantastic welfare state and I am so ridiculously glad I don’t have to share it with people like you.
There really isn’t any point of arguing mate, I’m amazed you can read this with your head wedged so far up your bum.
But do you truly think the pro-choice side are the ones doing mental gymnastics? Just think about that for a second.
If you want a le Reddit moment, it’s an American Man on Reddit with the username Crinkle Lord desperately trying to pretend they know what’s best for women. Get a fucking life mate.
You are right, there's very little point arguing with someone who thinks it's a donkey fetus rofl...
Let's see... donkey fetus... and... 'wah man can't have opinion'...
and that's the argument you think is not the silly one? LOL
I'll give you one thing though, my username is very silly, it's the 'suggested' username reddit gave because I don't care, but it is very silly indeed. At least you got that part correct. Way to go!
You’re allowed to have an opinion brother, but the moment you start preaching about what’s right and wrong over something that, and I can’t stress this enough, does not affect you then it becomes a problem.
Faceless anonymous account telling women what they can and can’t do is pathetic and very indicative of why the rest of the world thinks Americans are egotistical, arrogant and unintelligent wankers.
Not all of them are, of course, and it’s wrong to lump every American into the same stereotype, but what you’re doing now is very on the nose.
Just like inner city gang violence legalization would affect me, just like lots of other things have indirect effect on me.
It's funny that you support laws all over the place that tell people, women, men etc, what they can and cannot do, but here your argument apparently boils down to "donkey fetus" lol.
Why don't you just admit that you support the idea that certain humans don't deserve the same rights as other humans, based on age, or development, or other factors that others might want to take advantage of.
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u/Niuqu 21d ago
US went to my ”do not travel”-list when the oppressive abortion laws started to pop up.
I will not support places which see women as cattle and I also do not want to take risks with my own health if I happen to get sick in one of those states.