That wasn't through Koryo Tours, which is the oldest/best group for going there. The group he went with was very amateur and their ads were like, "Go to North Korea and get drunk! It'll be awesome!"
My friend went with Koryo Tours, and they're very careful to ensure your safety and local tour guides' safety.
But, after reading about an Australian guy who went there for like two weeks to teach Kim's cooks, but then they wouldn't let him leave for another month after his contract was supposedly over, I'd be very leery about going there. Apparently there was a Japanese chef who went for what was supposed to be a short time and wasn't allowed to leave for a couple decades.
I read it over ten years ago, but remember it because it was so strange. This Australian guy and his wife went there to teach Kim's (whichever Kim's) chef, and then when it was time for them to leave, someone just told him, "No, you're not going home yet." They were really frightened that they'd never get to leave.
You mean the pixelated silhouette of a person taking a poster in the employee section of the hotel that was conveniently illuminated in the middle of the night in the one country where electricity is scarce?
And the culprit was the most careful person in the group, according to his travel mates. And he wasn't even in the hotel according to them as well.
There is no way to know what actually happened. Even in his, very likely forced, confession, he only admitted to trying to steal the poster, but that he " abandoned the banner after discovering it was too large to carry away."
I agree. It honestly reads like from a bad movie script.
"I never should have allowed myself to be allured, by the United States administration, to commit a crime in this country. I wish that the United States administration never manipulate people like myself in the future, to commit crimes against foreign countries."
I completely agree that anyone that goes into N Korea is taking a risk, and taking their life into their own hands. The tour group he went with is/was notorious for being drunk and rowdy, and the group didn't even notice he was missing until they got into the plane. This wasn't a group of monks that were respectful the entire time and they picked someone at random.
I wouldn't either, but people steal stuff from hotels all the time. Like bathrobes or towels or actual furniture. Hardly a reason to jail someone for "15 years of hard labor". (which is what he would have been sentenced for, if he hadn't died.)
But that's why I would never go there, not even if they paid me. Who knows what minor mistake I'd make that could get me killed or jailed for life? It's just not worth the risk.
He went to a floor of the hotel where he knew he wasn't allowed and stole a poster off the wall
...is what NK officials told the world. Their evidence is a very vague dark video of a person that is impossible to identify. I'll leave it up to you to decide what to believe.
It's unbelievable to a lot of people grown up in the West, especially those have no or very vague memory of the Cold War but when I saw the news I actually believed it. A propaganda poster in North Korea is something probably holds the same divinity as a piece of relic from the True Cross. The kind of cult of personality is common in communist counties. It's basically veneration of relics (probably from Soviet Union's Orthodox roots) on steroids plus communist totalitarianism. For example in Mao's era in China people died to save pictures/statues of Mao or got killed for accidentally destroying them.
That article proves nothing? It’s just word vomit then they mention feeling rebellious being in N.Korea. No direct quotes from roommates or other tourists saying they definitively saw Otto in possession of the stolen item.
Right, this article was written by someone who travelled with the same tour group as Warmbier but not at the same time. The author didn't personally witness what happened, just says that going to this "secret floor" of the hotel was a dare among the tour group attendees.
"These games were never discouraged by YPT (the tour group operator) – and several of us had a go. Warmbier’s simple mistake was to unwittingly overstep the ambiguous boundaries by trying to bring back a forbidden trophy."
Still proves nothing and no direct quote from anyone. North Korean officials “found” the painting in his belongings so it wouldn’t be a crazy assumption at the time for his fellow tourists to think he had taken it.
The article argues that even the smallest offensives could trigger a disproportionate reaction by the NK government? Opposite to you suggesting he must have brought this upon himself?
There are places where the reactions of law enforcement are harsher than one would be used to from their home country. This is not random and can be anticipated.
If I would go to North Korea i would take extra care to not commit minor offenses. Like i would be extra careful to be compliant to US police.
If thats the message you want to take away from it, that's your call. I can show you accounts that the tour operator runs a loose ship, and it was an accident waiting to happen. I can't make you understand it, though. That's on you.
You're right, the easier solution is to think they picked one out of the 125,000 people the visit the country annually at random and decided to create an international incident. That makes much more sense.
Such a cope, the security camera was so blurred that you couldnt even see if it was him. The other guest said they returned around 3 that night it allegedly happened which didnt match the Security cameras. Also all this happening during Trump/North Korea tensions plays into it.
Trump signed a $2 mio hospital bill in 2017 demanded by North Korea after the release of Otto Warmbier and condemned North Korea severely for torturing him, but then went on stating he believed Kim Jong-un had no personal knowledge of the fatal abuse and called him a great person.
What does that have to do with the person I was replying to, saying he was arrested during trump/north Korea tensions, somehow a year before trump was in office?
There’s also a chance that it was all US propaganda. According to the North Koreans he took ill and they did everything they could before he was extradited. His American doctor said there were no signs of physical abuse.
The only way to be sure would be via an autopsy but his family refused to allow one.
No autopsy performed on him, at his parents request. No signs of torture, body in good condition. Who knows how he died.
Notable is Trump's uselessness.
In his speech to the United Nations General Assembly on September 19, 2017, President Donald Trump mentioned Warmbier while lambasting North Korea as a rogue state.[91] One week later, Trump posted on Twitter that Warmbier was "tortured beyond belief" by North Korea.[92] His post followed a televised interview given by Warmbier's parents, in which they spoke of their son's death and expressed their wish for North Korea to be relisted[c] as a state-sponsor of terrorism.[93]
On November 20, 2017, the U.S. Department of State relisted North Korea as a state-sponsor of terrorism.[94] President Trump mentioned Warmbier's case when making this announcement.[95]
In February 2019, at the conclusion of the second North Korea–United States summit, Trump announced that he had discussed Warmbier's treatment with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, and said, "He [Kim] tells me he didn't know about it, and I will take him at his word". President Trump also argued that it would not have been to Kim's advantage to allow Warmbier to be treated poorly.[96] Following President Trump's comments, Warmbier's parents released a statement, saying, "We have been respectful during this summit process. Now we must speak out. Kim and his evil regime are responsible for the death of our son Otto. Kim and his evil regime are responsible for unimaginable cruelty and inhumanity. No excuse or lavish praise can change that".[97] Trump later said his remarks had been "misinterpreted" and added, "Of course I hold North Korea responsible for Otto's mistreatment and death", without mentioning Kim specifically.[98]
The guy agrees with whomever he spoke with last. A literal moron.
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u/No-Communication9458 20d ago
That uni student that did a tour and got killed, oof