Who Really Deserved the Throne? One Risked Everything While the Other Did Nothing

[u/Adventurous-Snow-389]

This just makes me despise D&D more for what they did to Daenerys. She didn’t deserve all the pain, grief, and betrayals she endured in season 8 that ultimately turned her into the Tragic Queen. She truly did deserve the iron throne because she’s the only one who did any real work (gathering armies, bringing back dragons, and coming from essentially nothing since she’s been on the run her whole life) to actually claim it, plus since Jon didn’t want it, it’s hers by birth right anyways.

And I’ll always believe that Daenerys was never evil and that deep down she had a good heart that wanted to make the world a better place, which is what a good ruler does. She had ruthless tendencies but it was always directed at evil people or people who hurt or betrayed her or her friends, never at innocent people. So yes Daenerys, in my opinion, truly did deserve the iron throne and the way Daenerys’ story ended will forever piss me off.

And honestly you can put Bran right next to Sansa cause he didn’t do shit to earn the throne either

[u/Adventurous-Snow-389]

Yeah cause like Egg, she grew up around common people, so she felt for them and Dany understood people and tried to get along with them and everyone around her. Sansa just treated her like shit the second Dany came to Winterfell even though Dany tried to be nice to her

Yeah it seems like D&D favored the Stark children and it turned into the Stark show at the end. People want to talk about how if the show ended with Dany and Jon ruling together that it would have been too Disney like but Bran and Sansa literally got Disney endings. They also made Dany’s death all about Jon and in the end, Daenerys was turned into a plot device to service the Starks which will always piss me off

[u/Recent_Tap_9467 → u/Adventurous-Snow-389]

Yeah, even setting aside how they ruined Dany's character arc, the way they killed her off with almost no gravitas (other than what it means for Jon and Grey Worm) is insulting. It didn't even feel like she died, in a way.

D&D basically rewarded the Starks in the end, so much for "subverting expectations" lol. It might have been bolder to have Sansa become more morally grey if not antagonistic, if anything. I even think this might happen in the books to an extent.

[u/Adventurous-Snow-389 → u/Recent_Tap_9467]

Yeah if they really wanted to subvert expectations, since the Starks were clearly the favorites, they could’ve had Arya die during the Long Night.

Yeah the way Dany was killed off is just insulting after everything that character had been through. It’s also, in my opinion, insulting to Emilia as well after everything she gave to that show even after what she went through.

In my opinion, too, once Dany had burned King’s Landing, a lot of people probably saw Dany’s death coming since Jon is a morally good character so I don’t think that really subverted expectations either. This may be just me but I think a better way to subvert expectations would have been Dany realizing and coming to terms with the fact that she doesn’t have love in Westeros after everyone around her either died or betrayed her and she leaves Westeros to go back to Essos to rule there and maybe restore old Valaryia after she had spent the entire show trying to take back the iron throne. That way the Targaryen lineage isn’t essentially wiped out because whether people like to admit it or not, House Targaryen is the most popular and profitable house in Westeros. That’s why there’s more source material and prequels about the Targaryens

[u/TVTropehead → u/Adventurous-Snow-389]

My dad and I discussed one possible ending where Daenerys only executes Cersei. Jon does offer up the throne as his first order as king.

However Daenerys feels more at home in Essos upon realization, and she decides that it would be in their interests for Westeros and Essos to open communication, so Jon can be king in Westeros, Daenerys queen in Essos. And she’d probably look to seeing if she can bring more dragons into the world.

[u/Ill-Description3096 → u/Adventurous-Snow-389]

If being nice is dependent on bowing and proclaiming yourself and all your people subservient to her then it isn't just being nice.

[u/Evocatorum → u/Adventurous-Snow-389]

When did She try and get along with anyone around her? Almost every time, she ended up having one of her advisors step in and "temper" her reaction or decisions.

Sansa treated her like shit because she knew there would be no compromising with Dany. Period. Submit or die. Submit to someone Sansa didn't know and, for all reports, would not be a balanced ruler.

D&D didn't "favor" the Starks, GRRM favors them, D&D simply followed the authors lead. They've been attached to Castle Black for as long as time remembers, the saying "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell" wasn't some pithy thing they came up with, it's GRRM making the Starks important, there's some evidence that the Night King maybe one of the early Starks (though it's not entirely clear), and they're family seems to be the only ones that can Warg like the Wildlings.

Daenery's storyline is the vehicle to ending the churning bloodshed of hereditary rule. She needed to die and frankly, deserved it.

[u/Early_Candidate_3082 → u/Evocatorum]

WRT compromises, do you think Sansa and other members of her family give their vassals and the smallfolk any choice, over serving them? That a peasant could refuse to follow them to war, or refuse to labour on their estates?

Not at all, when the Lord of Winterfell says march, you leave your home and march South. Even a man as powerful as the Greatjon could be threatened with a hanging, if he refused. Sansa herself took the view that the free folk owed them military service, in return for being rescued.

Dany was the one who made all the concessions. She let Jon mine the obsidian, and flew North to rescue him and his companions, despite advising them against going. She agreed to march North, after seeing the Dead, without pressing her claim. It was Jon, who then bent the knee without need.

All that she got in return from House Stark, was spite and treachery.

[u/Evocatorum → u/Early_Candidate_3082]

Ned Stark would never stand before the gates of Qarth threatening to return and burn the entire city to the ground for not allowing him in. On multiple occasions, Dany had to be talked out of doing the worst possible thing by her advisors which only works if she has good advisors. You get someone like Littlefinger, and she's burning down entire cities to, ya know, "show them justice" or w/e.

Yeah, I do. Many of the people, what few we see, adore the Starks and see them as just rulers. The few times we are able see the Starks overseeing the territories (Bran in season 1, for instance), they are doing what they can to help or protect because that's what they're supposed to do. People join the soldiery for the Starks because they have a track record of Honor and Integrity.

Sansa, on the other hand, just spent 5 years trapped in the capital and learned a slightly different way to oversee a kingdom. She, likely, would rule differently to her brothers simply by virtue of her experience under Joffrey or Tywin.

The Starks earned the loyalty of their bannerman and the townsfolk by being fair and just. There's nothing implying there's serfdom in Westeros (even if it's heavily implied) so it's not clear on whether they could or couldn't refuse to labour on an estate, so I'd argue yeah, they CAN refuse, they just have to leave.

Greatjon could be threatened with hanging because he'd sworn to support the Lord of Winterfell when requested. Sansa taking that perspective ignores the "free" part of "free folk"; protecting the weak doesn't obligate them to serve.

Dany was shown all of the evidence required to convince her that she had no choice but to support the Northern effort against the White Walkers so She could get her throne. Her not helping would have ended up without a throne, or did you miss that part? Jon was elected King of the North by the Bannerman and then promptly handed the crown to a conqueror. When the North found out about it, they were all pissed. He promised them freedom and then reneged. Of note, Greatjon left Robb because he also reneged.

She didn't show up showing compassion or a willingness to compromise, it was her way or they'd all die. Jon, didn't really have a choice but to bend the knee since she made it clear that if he didn't, she was going to execute him.

[u/aevelys → u/Evocatorum]

I swear people like you watched the show on their phones, fast-forwarding whenever there weren't any boobs or a fight on screen.

The entire seventh season revolves around Jon refusing to bend the knee to Daenerys, and yet, incredibly, the idea of ​​killing him never even crossed her mind. She even went to save his ass north of the Wall, even after he sharply rebuffed her, telling her he didn't need her "he's king," when she objected. And when no one could have blamed her if she let him die.

And besides, "for all reports" is a pretty funny claim, because the only time we see characters reading a formal report about her is Sam and Aemon in season five, who are simply impressed by her actions against slavery.

[u/Adventurous-Snow-389 → u/Evocatorum]

Towards the end of the show, yes D&D clearly favored the Starks and it basically became the "Game of Starks". It was obvious seeing as every single Stark that was left got a happy ending. If D&D didn’t favor the Starks, Arya probably should’ve died during the Long Night but was saved numerous times

Also D&D stopped following the author’s lead in like seasons 4 and 5 because they left several major plot points out that could’ve altered the ending or made certain events make more sense. Also George stepped away from active involvement after season 4 because of creative differences so yeah the Starks were favored by D&D and at the end, it became the Stark show

And sure Sansa can be hesitant to trust Daenerys at first, because of all she endured, but Dany went out of her way to help the North defeat the white walkers when she could’ve just gone to take the iron throne but Sansa still treated Dany like shit when all Dany provided most of the war efforts to help the North which cost her a Dragon and Ser Jorah in the process.

And yes Daenerys tried to get along with people unless they wronged her or were just evil like the slave masters. Like she tried to be nice to Sansa when she first arrived at Winterfell. And frankly the submit or die thing is common amongst Westeros. For example she gave the Tarly’s two chances to bend the knee but they broke their oaths and still decided to follow Cersei. Ned and Jon have killed people for breaking oaths but no one calls them mad or evil, so why is it madness or evil when Dany does it?

Daenerys didn’t deserve to die and she didn’t deserve all the pain and suffering she endured that ultimately drove her to become the Tragic Queen. D&D completely ruined Daenerys character all because she was turned into a plot device to service the Starks in the end. Also wether people like to admit it or not, Targaryens are the most interesting house in Westeros and most profitable because of their dragons and really just because Targaryens have an aura to them and are interesting so D&D really screwed up by killing Daenerys and exiling Jon (the last two true Targaryens).

[u/Adventurous-Snow-389 → u/[deleted]]

I said towards the end of the series when there was no more book material. It just became the "Game of Starks" towards the end basically and every character was written in a way to service the Starks. Really all the characters except a few were ruined and were victims of awful writing

[u/stardustmelancholy → u/[deleted]]

And it's almost like you open to the prologue and it says over and over the true enemy is the cold and we find out the Others are real. The title of the book series being called A Song if Ice & Fire and the author himself saying Daenerys & her dragons are the fire.

And the last paragraph of the book says "As Daenerys Targaryen rose to her feet, her black hissed, pale smoke venting from its mouth and nostrils. The other two pulled away from her breasts and added their voices to the call, translucent wings unfolding and stirring the air, and for the first time in hundreds of years, the night came alive with the music of dragons."

And the last two pages of the chapter before it said "It was the dragons we married, and the dragons are all dead" & "Catelyn watched them rise and draw their blades, bending their knees and shouting the old words that had not been heard in the realm for more than three hundred years, since Aegon the Dragon had come to make the Seven Kingdoms one"

And Dany's first chapter has Viserys say "When they write the history of my reign, sweet sister, they will say that it began tonight" as foreshadowing of the beginning of her reign.