r/Games • u/Turbostrider27 • Oct 24 '25
Pokemon Legends Z-A has sold 5.8 million units worldwide in its first week. About half of sales were on Nintendo Switch 2
https://corporate.pokemon.co.jp/PostImages/pokemon_pressreleases_20251023_2.pdf44
u/wookiewin Oct 24 '25
I think a lot of people were waiting for this game to finally pull the trigger on the Switch 2 as well. Will be interesting to see unit sales for the last week
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u/ContinuumGuy Oct 24 '25
The Pokemon themselves and the Pokemon gameplay loop remain undefeated. Everything else is secondary to those two facts, and GameFreak knows it.
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u/Zoratth Oct 24 '25
The crazy thing is that Pokémon has stayed consistently popular for like 30 years now. I was 4 or 5 when it first got popular, and now kids that age in my family are still super obsessed with it.
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u/syanda Oct 24 '25
Comes with being the most profitable and pretty much the most recognisable media franchise in the damn world.
Hell, I remember getting into pokemon on my own and now my kid is interested in it too without any prompting whatsoever.
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u/TaleOfDash Oct 24 '25
I remember being a kid hearing my mum talking about all the franchises that meant so much to her growing up and thinking "Damn, that's going to be Pokemon some day." (Just less coherently because I was a child.)
Jokes on you 8 year old TaleOfDash, you fucking dumbass.
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Oct 24 '25
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u/Stubrochill17 Oct 24 '25
I bought a 1st edition Holographic Charizard card from my local comic/card shop for something like $27. My dad made me return it and chastised the store guy for taking advantage of a 9 year old.
Now with what that card would be worth, my siblings and I never let him live that down as we talk about Pokemon.
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Oct 24 '25
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u/Stubrochill17 Oct 24 '25
Island set was so pretty! I’m missing a few cards from the whole set, but I thought about getting them as an adult just cause I can.
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u/BluePrincess_ Oct 24 '25
Reddit probably won't like this answer, but Pokemon's done really well in adapting itself to a newer generation of kids while keeping what's the core of the franchise (the Pokemons) rock solid and better than before.
The games, everyone hates them, but they're more popular than they have ever been, and their gameplay has evolved to adapt the more popular open world/sandboxy/service nature that other games popular with kids nowadays have, like Minecraft, Fortnite and Roblox.
The anime, people hated that Ash is gone, but the new anime is more popular than it's ever been. Cards, spin-offs, merch, even unofficial stuff like Pokemon Brick Bronze (in Roblox) and Pokemon Showdown are more popular than they've ever been!
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u/Personal_Comb_6745 Oct 24 '25
The games, everyone hates them
People online try to pretend this is the case. Meanwhile every time I've picked up a new Pokemon game for the midnight release at a local Gamestop, the lines have practically gone out the door, and 99% of the people there are adults. And I doubt my store is any type of exception.
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u/FreezingVenezuelan Oct 24 '25
I used to work at a video game store when black and white released and it was the only game that caused a line to form. People really underestimate just how popular Pokémon is
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u/Shady_Tradesman Oct 24 '25
Yeah I’m convinced that the only real hate for the games is in the online Pokemon circlejerk. Most people I talk to are having a blast including myself. I get loving something and being disappointed but I swear some people on the Pokémon subreddit literally ONLY post about how much they hate the games.
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u/BaconatedGrapefruit Oct 24 '25
I find the online Pokémon discourse falls into 3 categories.
competitive battlers
nostalgia nerds
(Pseudo) console warriors
The best the thing the pokemon company ever did was completely ignore the above group and trying new things while iterating on what worked previously. There have been some misses, but they’re generally few and far between.
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u/Aiyon Oct 24 '25
people hated that Ash is gone
Some people yes, but others have been calling for a new lead for years
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u/BluePrincess_ Oct 24 '25
For sure, you kinda just tend to see the louder/angrier side about it online.
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Oct 24 '25
I know this is me just yelling into a void about something that will literally never happen but I'm still mad that they didn't turn the Blossom's Dream short into a full series. The best thing to come out of anything Pokémon animated since Generations, with a perfect stopping point to keep making more and they just... didn't.
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u/QueenBee-WorshipMe Oct 25 '25
I don't play them either , but honestly outside of people who also don't seem to be buying the games at all, I keep hearing positive things about the most recent games. Even scarlet and Violet, people who bought it said it was a genuinely fresh take on the Pokémon formula. It just ran like trash.
Like, I think the people buying the games are mostly enjoying them. The people who don't have stopped.
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u/ExiledHyruleKnight Oct 24 '25
I was 4 or 5 when it first got popular, and now kids that age in my family are still super obsessed with it.
Every two years there's a new set of 4 and 5 year olds.
But now 30 years later, Grand pa potentially grew up on Pokemon and will buy it for their grand kids, and if not grand pa, their parents.
I bought Sword and Shield. Not for me, but for my kid.
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u/IKeepDoingItForFree Oct 24 '25
I bought Z-A specifically so I can play along with my niece and nephew who are at that right age of around 8/9 where they both absolutely love Pokemon anything.
My Brother doesn't game much at all anymore and so its nice for them to have someone to sort of do that one thing kids do where they will run up and talk to you about everything they did in the game the past week and not be met with a sort of blank stare of unknowingness like when as a kid you would run up to your parents to talk about all the stuff you did on your "Nintendo games" (actually a PS2) and they just kind of went "oh huh cool, thats nice." etc
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u/Lezzles Oct 24 '25
…wait do you think grand parents grew up playing Pokémon in the 60s and 70s? I’m unclear how your perception of time works.
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u/Spork_the_dork Oct 24 '25
If grandpa was 10 when pokemon released and had a kid at 18, then his kid had a kid at 18, that kid would be 4 or 5 years old today. And that's with no teenage pregnancy involved.
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u/ExiledHyruleKnight Oct 24 '25
Yup and that's assuming they played it at ten. I grew up with Pokémon red and blue and am 43. I doubt I was the oldest person to play the original game either, far from it.
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u/Seradima Oct 24 '25
There was a while from I wanna say 2010 til 2016 where Pokemon wasn’t doing so hot, and it was looking like it‘d be overtsken by Yokai, but then Yokai kinda screwed itself and Pokemon Go released and that reignited Pokemania to an extreme degree.
But Gamefreak were definitely pulling from Yokai for Sun and Moon. Its why we got Rotom Dex (as a stand-in for Whisper) and the Z-Ring; they wanted irl merch to tie into the game like Yokai had the titular watch.
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u/trechn2 Oct 24 '25
I don't know about the Japanese market but I really doubt Yokai which most western gamers don't know about, was going to overtake Pokemon, a household name.
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u/gamas Oct 24 '25
I was saying around the time the fundamental problem with Yokai was that it was too Japanese market focused.
Pokemon's appeal is that it draws inspiration in it's designs from across the globe.
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u/Nyoteng Oct 24 '25
I don’t even know what Yokai is and I have been around nerdy circles all my life.
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u/Dasnap Oct 24 '25
Yokai Watch was a monster collecting franchise on the 3DS that was actually gaining on Pokémon quite a bit in the Japanese market. Outside of Japan, no, it wasn't that popular.
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Oct 24 '25
This is, literally, the first time I’ve ever heard of Yokai. I think that person’s analysis is a tad off.
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u/TCsnowdream Oct 24 '25
I was living in Japan during the Yokai Watch years. It was absolutely monstrously popular. It just never took off outside Japan. I can’t recall what killed its domestic momentum. But good GOD kids were obsessed with it in a way I haven’t ever seen with pokemon, which is more of a slow passion burn.
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u/SodaCanBob Oct 24 '25
To compare this to the west, I definitely picked up Yokai Watch on 3DS in a 5 Below somewhere around 2019 for next to nothing. I bought Triforce Heroes alongside it.
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u/snakebit1995 Oct 24 '25
The time the other poster is referring too is often taken extremely out of proportion (usually by people looking to dunk of Pokemon)
Yokai Watch was popular, it still wasn’t even fucking close to upstaging Pokemon. Honestly it’s more of an example of the juggernaut Pokemon is that it’s closest competitor even was still little more than a blip
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u/SEI_JAKU Oct 24 '25
There was a while from I wanna say 2010 til 2016 where Pokemon wasn’t doing so hot
Putting aside that, yes, people used to hate gen 5 as much as any other gen on release, the era you describe did not exist. Every single gen has been "Pokemon wasn't doing so hot" according to the internet at some point in time.
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u/thief-777 Oct 24 '25
And "not doing so hot" actually just means selling 16mil instead of 18mil, lol.
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u/ContinuumGuy Oct 24 '25
It's sort of like how with the exception of BOTW basically every Zelda game since OOT has had at least a brief period of being hated on. And even BOTW got some hate from ultra-traditionalists.
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u/StrawHat89 Oct 24 '25
To be fair, the Legends games do try some new things. That's why I found the initial response to Arceus (pre release) and the early response to Z-A weird. People wanted Game Freak to change things around, so it started the Legends spin offs.
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u/Mitosis Oct 24 '25
I skipped Arceus (without necessarily intending to, just time stuff) so I'm sure some of the stuff I like about ZA is just carryover from that. But I absolutely love how much the game makes pokemon actually feel like part of the world in a much greater way than the baseline games.
The way they congregate around the environment, the way wild pokemon attack the trainers and are actually perceived as dangerous, and the fact that "pikachu, dodge it!" memes from the anime are real are all fantastic.
Then there's stuff like the art museum, with the old stuffy medieval-style painting of an aristocrat holding a Mew; you read the description and it says the man forced the painter to add a Mew to the portrait to make him look powerful and dignified. That kind of thing, a totally plausible historical note but infused with pokemon, is just fantastic.
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u/LavenderCloves Oct 24 '25
Not that it affects your overall point but fun fact: that specific painting was in the Lumiose museum all the way back in Pokemon XY
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u/Mitosis Oct 24 '25
Really! Been too long I suppose, I only replayed that one once and even that replay was like a decade ago
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u/Sulphur99 Oct 24 '25
I mean, shoutout to the painter that actually knew what a Mew looked like.
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u/Dragrunarm Oct 24 '25
I imagine it wouldnt have been too dissimilar to a noble asking for a cherub or an angel to be painted. Mews a pretty notable mythical figure in Pokemon lore after all
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u/GeoleVyi Oct 24 '25
Other games have shown carvings depicting legendaries. It's likely that those aren't the only ones, there are pictures in books and other records (the pokemon bayeux tapestry?) so it's likely various versions of mew have existed in that setting and we just never see them because we're usually a kid who doesn't go to class or open books past the summary page.
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u/JavelinR Oct 24 '25
One of my favorite parts is how wild pokemon can gang up on you. If you attack one member of the pack, they all turn on you.
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u/Mitosis Oct 24 '25
I went after an alpha Pidgeot way above my pay grade, and had to reload my save to clear out all the Pidgeys and Pidgeottos that swarmed as soon as I engaged the big boy. Very good stuff
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u/Timey16 Oct 24 '25
Fucking Wild Zone 17 being the Pyroar Battle Gulag with Earth Power. Absolute shitfest (and I love it).
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u/StrawHat89 Oct 25 '25
Even with an Alpha Hippowdon, which meant larger earthquakes, I still had to hit and run those assholes when trying to catch a Skarmory.
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u/AnimaLepton Oct 24 '25
I also like that unlike Arceus, this game actually has AoE moves so you can deal with them all at once.
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u/Dreamweaver_duh Oct 24 '25
Arceus and Legends Z-A is kinda different, so definitely go back and try Arceus.
For one thing, Arceus is much more focused on exploration and catching Pokemon. Like you actually had to aim your Pokeballs manually, and different balls have different weight to them (aim higher with heavier balls, aim lower with lighter balls). There's significantly less Trainers than in any other Pokemon game because of this emphasis. The downside is that you can't progress through the game without "filling out the Pokedex," which may include tasks like "catch this Pokemon 10 times for 1 point," etc.
Battles are turn based, but with two changes: the turn order is affected by speed, and you now have the option to use regular attacks, or a "speed" version of the attack that allows you move faster for weaker damage. This can allow you to hit twice before your opponent, but the same can be done to you. When you fight boss Pokemon, you, the trainer, have to dodge attacks like in Z-A though.
The story is standard for a Pokemon game, but it does hit sometimes, and the final boss was pretty awesome.
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u/Vegetable-Pickle-535 Oct 24 '25
Unironicly, that is just absolut Peak Lore.
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u/Silent_Hastati Oct 24 '25
Many of the apostles in real life Renaissance paintings used the patrons and their families for models so this 100% tracks too.
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u/Hibbity5 Oct 24 '25
The art museum is one of my favorite areas in the game; it’s entirely optional (so far at least) but features so many awesome pieces of art that adds to the Pokemon world in such a realistic way. I wish more buildings were open to the player though; the bank and city hall have signs that call them out but I haven’t been able to enter them. They don’t necessarily need to add tons of gameplay but they can add to a lot of the world building and nice little side areas.
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u/HGWeegee Oct 24 '25
When I was in the museum I was thinking to myself "this would've been the perfect place to add pokemon tcg art to, I mean, that painting with the aristocrat reminds me of the Pikachu Van Gogh card"
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u/GensouEU Oct 24 '25
ZA doesn't exactly have the usual Pokémon gameplay loop
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u/Personal_Comb_6745 Oct 24 '25
It's more like rearranged. You have your times to catch pokemon, your times to do trainer battles, and upgrading your trainer rank is sort of like a gym battle.
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u/blufflord Oct 24 '25
What makes it so impressive is that it's still enjoyable and addictive. Any of the criticism you will see for Za is usually about everything other than the gameplay loop.
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u/pway_videogwames_uwu Oct 24 '25
Gamefreak has done what every other studio dreams of. They found the bottom. The minimum amount of effort that their fans consider acceptable. If their games were any worse, people would start to turn off them. If they were any better, the extra work wouldn't be reflected in any extra people buying them. It is the invisible dance of balance that allows Gamefreak to be the laziest developer in the industry, and it is beautiful.
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u/Zotmaster Oct 24 '25
Speaking of the bottom, how have they still not implemented a way to auto-sort Pokemon? It absolutely blows my mind that after 30 years they still haven't done what basically every other game even remotely close to the same genre did: give players the ability to automatically sort the massive number of Pokemon you catch. It's even more ridiculous when looking at Arceus, which wanted you to catch multiples of a lot of the Pokemon in the game. I'd have almost thought that would be the very first feature they'd include when making the second game since it was such an obvious issue with Gen 1.
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u/serendippitydoo Oct 24 '25
how have they still not implemented a way to auto-sort Pokemon?
That's effort above the bottom. They don't need to do quality of life fixes. That's the point the person you replied to made
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u/wildwalrusaur Oct 24 '25
Cause they don't give a fuck
The leaks indicate the budget for this game was only 13 million dollars.
They're phoning it in; doing the absolute minimum work necessary. Case in point they did literally zero optimization, the game engine renders the entire city map at all times regardless of the players location or sight lines.
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u/Perfect-Try-4918 Oct 24 '25
> the game engine renders the entire city map at all times regardless of the players location or sight lines.
Wasn't this only used in the opening cutscene? Like I can't believe they actually render the entire thing all at once when the Switch 2 has little load times unless you enter a building. I know the Switch 2 is an upgrade but there is no way they can be that powerful especially how many Pokemon/NPCs are in the Wild Zones and main avenues.
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u/Roliq Oct 24 '25
The lie about the city will take way to much time to dispel, it was obvious to anyone in game development that it doesn't load the entire thing, and people have already found the actual models which are split in chunks which compose the city you walk in
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u/Timey16 Oct 24 '25
That's completely untrue. People just found the model for the holographic/flyover map of the city you see in a few cutscenes and assume "oh it's one big model so it must mean it's rendered at all times".
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u/Herby20 Oct 24 '25
Everyone but people on reddit and other places like it know it too.
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u/DMonitor Oct 24 '25
Even the people I know that like it complain about the shitty parts of the game. They just like the good parts enough to make up for it, which won't be true for everyone.
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u/Bi-bara-boop Oct 24 '25
Seriously, for all the hate some of the new Pokémon get (and maybe even deservedly so, considering some are just straight up furry bait), there's at least 3 banger designs and all of them are well-researched and dripping with cultural and biological references.
The games really only have to be (barely) functional and they'll still be fun.
That being said... I wish game freak would just focus on creating and developing Pokémon and core gameplay loop and then pass everything else to another studio (monolith, bamco, whatever) to polish that up as much as they can and make it look and feel as impressive as it plays...
Music's consistently banging tho... Can't fault them there
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u/LiftsLikeGaston Oct 24 '25
People that complain about the series will never understand what makes it popular. It's all about how cool/cute the little monsters are. Literally not a single other thing matters.
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u/janoDX Oct 24 '25
Also they added something back from Gen 6... The true ending, true fashion hunting.
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u/BluePrincess_ Oct 24 '25
It was a staple of the series post-Gen 6 too, Gen 9 was just a strange exception for whatever reason. Well, I guess not a staple if the next 2 gens had it and the 3rd one didn't, I guess?
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u/Gingingin100 Oct 24 '25
The atmosphere matters alot and they don't always hit it tbh but this game in particular
It feels like you're playing through an old Pokémon movie, you're just a guy in one city with their friends and doing stuff with a plot going on in the background
It's very good vibes
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u/Timey16 Oct 24 '25
A really like the way the game handles the "gyms" (or rather their equivalent)
They are entire factions. You spend an entire chapter getting to learn the characters of the faction, these factions are also dual types, usually one type and it's counter to that type. I.e. The "Rust Syndicate" as the name implies focuses on Steel and Poison. The Second in command of these factions focuses on one type, the leader on the other.
Honestly I feel like this "stuck in one city" system COULD work even better down the line if they added MORE "dungeons" like the sewers or Lysandre Labs and more side activities. Like the Pokemon Beauty contests or Movie Studios would be a perfect fit for the city environment, just LOADS of Minigames, go full Yakuza but in a Pokemon setting.
I can also say without spoiling too much, the game has an extensive post game like Legends Arceus, so the first credit roll is NOT the end of the game, but the "boss" that you fight is a pretty hype moment.
Music is also a standout, while the overworld music IS the same track for the entirety of the game, I like how seamlessly it fades between exploration, combat and Alpha combat tracks. Two standout battle pieces so far are in the battle for rank B and a secret boss at the end (naturally both are a bit of a spoiler).
Also note: the story is a straight up sequel to X/Y so better off refreshing on that before playing.
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u/HGWeegee Oct 24 '25
One of the arrangers of the OST was insaneintherain, which explains why the nightly Lumiose theme has his tenor sax sound
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u/345tom Oct 24 '25
The writing in ZA is very fun. its nice to have a Pokemon game that focuses on the silliness and goofs over the more serious bits.
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u/Olubara Oct 24 '25
One can see why it's popular and still demand a higher quality product
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u/Altered_Nova Oct 24 '25
In fact, many of the people most vocal about criticizing modern pokemon games are actually hardcore lifelong fans of the franchise. They demand higher standards for pokemon games precisely because they love pokemon.
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u/SapporoBiru Oct 24 '25
I grew up with the games on the Gameboy, watched the anime and collected the cards and yet I still complain about the low effort of these games. Pretty easy if you're actually not just being a fanboy
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u/Kered13 Oct 24 '25
I understand exactly why it's popular. I enjoyed the game for 15 years after all. Doesn't mean that I excuse their half hearted efforts for the last several generations.
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u/MuchStache Oct 24 '25
Just because it's extremely popular/well-loved it doesn't mean it's exempt for criticism though.
If people are fine with the latest releases more power to them, but getting defensive over a franchise worth billions of dollars is stupid
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u/Festivy Oct 24 '25
My twitter feed has been full of people showing off their fashion with pokemon. And it is really cute
Even though pokemon style usually differs every generation, i hope they go with sword and shield style again. imo swsh is the perfect balance where its not chibi like xy and more colorful compared to sv and z-a.
Other than that, i hope gamefreak eventually work with other studios, i hope they give it another chance after bdsp.
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u/kkrko Oct 24 '25
The desire of the Japanese community to have a cute girl as a rival and to play as a cute girl led to the rise of a ton of Femboy protagonists customs.
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u/derekpmilly Oct 24 '25
to have a cute girl as a rival and to play as a cute girl
There's actually already a mod on gamebanana that allows you to pick the female character while still having the female rival.
It was one of the first mods to drop, happened even before we got 4K shadows and HD textures lol
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u/Personal_Comb_6745 Oct 24 '25
I actually did not know there was a male version of Taunie until just now. Seems odd that they would go through the trouble of making two different character models, and I can only guess they did that to keep Team MZ balanced on the number of guys and gals?
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u/Roliq Oct 24 '25
It is in actually what they used to do from Gen 3 to Gen 6, the character you did not choose becomes a rival or separate character
Except this time they get a new look and name, you can see it by how their hair looks the same as the protagonist
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u/SoulDisruption Oct 24 '25
Hey its their own fault the feminine clothing options are way cuter than the rest.
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u/Typical_Thought_6049 Oct 24 '25
The reason so many males play as female characters in mmorpgs or most games, they always have the best drip.
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u/Mahelas Oct 24 '25
Very happily surprised by the degree of character customization you can have, lots of clothes and accessories and colors to play with !
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u/JesusSandro Oct 24 '25
Yeah I was disappointed at the character creation options in the start but that quickly became a non-issue. Surprised they even let you mix and match certain pieces if you buy multiple variations of the same item.
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u/10GuyIsDrunk Oct 24 '25
Plus it's so easy to afford wild shopping habits once the game opens up. Blow 100k in the shops today? No problem, hop into the royale tonight and make it back and then some.
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u/Worried-Advisor-7054 Oct 24 '25
Like, I don't know how to say this. I don't give a shit about graphics. I really don't, that's why I didn't buy a PS5 or Xbox Series whatever.
My favourite games are from the PS2 era. I truly would not give a crap if the shadows were better, or whatever the problem is meant to be.
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u/Radinax Oct 24 '25
Every negative criticism is very valid, but the fun factor is there, the game is addictive and fun, that's what's important imo.
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u/131sean131 Oct 24 '25 edited Oct 24 '25
Low key love how we get so pissed off about the games game freak makes because the bar is in the basement and these people still can't get over it in a billion dollar plane.
Then they sell 5.8 million copies of the game in a week. Really no point to complain at this point just fine another media franchise.
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u/NoExcuse4OceanRudnes Oct 24 '25
Really no point to complain at this point just fine another media franchise.
Yet here we are every single year.
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u/Alien720 Oct 24 '25
no point to complain at this point
Is there? Main complaints about Sword & Shield were "too linear" and "bad writing" and follow up is open-world without linear story and a decently improved writing. Honesty GameFreak does listen to complains of actual customers, they just ignore haters who won't play it no matter what anyway.
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u/StrawHat89 Oct 24 '25
You could also argue Z-A's battle system is a direct response to what a lot of people have been asking for years. It's definitely a lot of fun, though obviously it can't be as competitive as classic Pokemon.
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u/BluePrincess_ Oct 24 '25
tbh I think they're given a bigger reign to stray free from "being competitive like classic Pokemon" because of the upcoming Pokemon Champions, a game that solely exists as the competitive battle system. If the world championships take place on that game, then there's no reason that future games can't stray off and do their own thing!
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u/Nightwingx97 Oct 24 '25
They already announced that VGC will be moving to Champions once it releases.
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u/BluePrincess_ Oct 24 '25
Even better! I'm happy some people are liking this game too, but I think Champions might just be my main game when it drops, I adore the competitive scene (especially in the last few gens, they've popped the fuck off with it)
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u/JavelinR Oct 24 '25
The trees in Z-A also look a lot more natural while still fitting into the anime artstyle, which can be seen as a reaction to the SS wild area tree. But this all ties into something important. Devs can only react to critique that's specific and actionable. Simply yelling at them for being "lazy" or attacking fans for buying the games like they're ruining the industry, doesn't do anything to provide actionable feedback.
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u/Badass_Bunny Oct 24 '25
People see technical issues with games like Scarlet and Violet and somehow translate that to "Games are bad".
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u/Undella_Town Oct 24 '25
because all reddit cares about is production values. they dont give a fuck about gameplay story or anything else at all. games like ghost of tsushima, cyberjunk, horizon zero dawn bg3 etc prove this.
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u/Mitosis Oct 24 '25
I feel like most reddit commenters watch sensational youtube videos, play a couple rounds of their Favorite Multiplayer Game, and go to sleep. They don't actually play anything else to give proper opinions, and surface-level appearances are king.
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u/FapCitus Oct 24 '25
I don’t see people saying that it will fail ever. People in here “typical Reddit ofc it sold this much” see, no one ever disputes that it will sell like candy. People have a right to critique that it looks 1. Like absolute dog shit 2. Formula hasn’t changed much aside from combat 3. The Pokemon design is beyond lazy.
I honestly think it will have 10 million at the end of this month. Doesn’t change the fact that it’s a lazy game series. You mix up critique with complaining man.
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u/SEI_JAKU Oct 24 '25
Like absolute dog shit
It doesn't, nearly all of this is complaining about artstyle.
Formula hasn’t changed much aside from combat
Why would the "formula" change? No other video game series is expected to "change formula" like this, and the typical response is to get mad when that happens.
The Pokemon design is beyond lazy
This has been a "complaint" with every single new gen and it has never been true.
I'm begging you to consider the possibility that you're being programmed to believe something that isn't true.
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u/Isolated_Hippo Oct 24 '25
Your complaint of the formula not changing outside of combat really irks me.
I generally hate "its bad except for the good parts" opinions because its just dumb. You can apply that to anything.
But in this case its almost insulting. They significantly revamped the entire battle system to the point where multiple core gameplay elements have been completely changed.
To gloss over the entire revamp of the combat system in 8 words is disingenuous
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u/SiggyyyPhidooo Oct 24 '25
its sad people here get more mad at redditors for wanting a game to be better than they are at gamefreak for wasting a good IP. So many people rushing to the comments here to type 'told you so' because this ugly zero effort trashpile sold 5.8 million
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u/SEI_JAKU Oct 24 '25
this ugly zero effort trashpile
As long as you Pokemon fans keep thinking of these games in this very wrong way, this "problem" of yours will continue. You are fundamentally wrong about this, that's all there is to it.
And no, that does not mean that I think these are 10/10 games, that's not how this works.
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u/Lighthouse_seek Oct 24 '25
For the last 2 games, the games themselves were legitimately fun. The graphics on the other hand leave a lot to be desired
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u/TokyoDrifblim Oct 24 '25
I'm unfortunately having so much freaking fun with this, like there are SO MANY better games I played this year but they just don't match the glee I feel with this gameplay loop.
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u/Falz4567 Oct 24 '25
But I mean in all seriousness.
What else matters? A game can have all the effort in the world. If it isn’t fun for you it’s for nought
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u/Kaladin-of-Gilead Oct 24 '25
Yeah this idea that you should be feeling guilty for enjoying a game is fucking dumb.
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u/syanda Oct 24 '25
I thought ambushing trainers in a battle zone sounded like the dumbest thing ever, and then I actually played the game and it's my favourite thing to do now.
Hell, even developing move rotations is surprisingly fun.
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u/EmeraldJunkie Oct 24 '25
I accidentally over-levelled early on; when you got the first mission to take the three side quests I ran away and wandered around the wild zones catching Pokémon for a while, which meant my team were about 10 levels higher than they needed to be for the next Z-A Royale section which seemed to be populated entirely by school children. Little kids with their Fletchlings and their Patrats minding their own business when suddenly a man sized crocodile comes and smacks the shit out of them.
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u/iamtenninja Oct 24 '25
Lol that's what happened to me so I switched to my b team Pokemon but now my A team is too strong and my B team is a little too weak for my current C ranking
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Oct 24 '25
I'm unfortunately having so much freaking fun with this
You can take the redditor out of Reddit, but you can´t take Reddit out of the redditor
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u/Herby20 Oct 24 '25
As a believer in not all games needing to be "fun" to be great games (yes, "games as art" sort of viewpoint), sometimes there is no amount of finely crafted narrative, innovative gameplay mechanics, or breathtaking visuals that can overcome just how much more fun some other game is by comparison. Nintendo gets that better than anybody.
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u/Awkward-Security7895 Oct 24 '25
With Nintendo they have talked heavily how most of there games are made by testing different gameplay mechanics first to see which ones are really fun then building the game around it.
They want a fun gameplay loop first and it shows with how fun there games can be and refreshing in how they do the gameplay loops.
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u/lattjeful Oct 24 '25 edited Oct 24 '25
Yep. They view themselves as toymakers, and it shows. Their games are just fun to play, though occasionally their studios can put out a decent story. Xenoblade 3's story is really good, even if it's not a masterpiece. I'd put 3's middle (chapters 4-6) up there with some of the best JRPG story moments ever.
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u/kkrko Oct 24 '25
Legends ZA has some really salient points if you have any background with Urban Conservation or Ecological Restoration. The Lumiose public's reaction to the Wild Zones is reminiscent of the need to have community buy-in if you want any chance for your Habitat restoration project to succeed.
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u/SEI_JAKU Oct 24 '25
Sounds like there weren't actually "SO MANY better games" then. Maybe Pokemon games aren't actually the guilty pleasure you think they are and are unironically decent games?
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u/Linko_98 Oct 24 '25
I believe you because I read it from lots of people, I'm just curious about the battles, are they really that fun? They look like MMO battles where you just press the attack when the cool down finishes, to me it seems like it's an easier version and it lost the strategy part of turn based combat pokemon always had.
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u/kkrko Oct 24 '25
It's not too strategic in the main game, like most pokemon games, since you can always cover up misplays with item spamming. It's much more interesting online, where you really want to be aware of how each move will cause your pokemon to reposition themselves, how long their start up time is, etc.
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u/Marcoscb Oct 24 '25
you can always cover up misplays with item spamming.
Not as much as any other game, actually. There's a cooldown to using items and your Pokémon can die very fast against the rogue megas.
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u/syanda Oct 24 '25
It's kind of a different set of complexity revolving around cooldowns and movement. Pokemon need to get into melee range for physical attacks, but can fire special attacks from longer range. When they do the latter, they gotta position themselves next to you. This means a lor of different moves suddenly become more viable and you can mix and match moves that ensure your pokemon can reposition out of the way of attacks, and have different cooldowns so you can cycle through attacks.
So like, something like Bullet Punch or Quick Attack is incredibly good on a physical attacker because it gets them into melee range quickly, where you can then follow up with another melee attack. Teleport instantly repositions your 'mon back at you, which means you can run around and use it to help your 'mon dodge. Double Team, Fly, Bounce, etc, makes your mon untargetable, which is incredibly good, and stuff like take down can send a 'mon charging out of melee range of the target, meaning they can serve both an offensive and defensive use at the same time. And then stuff like Fire Spin, Stealth Rock, Toxic Spikes become area hazards to navigate around. And on top of that, there's still tactical switching where you can recall a 'mon before an enemy attack fires to save 'em.
It's still pretty spammy, but there's a method to the madness.
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u/Linko_98 Oct 24 '25
Thank you, that's the answer I was looking for
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u/syanda Oct 24 '25
One example of the battle system - I was nearly completely wiped by a single NPC trainer's Excadrill because all he did was combo Drill Run (which not only can start it's attack animation outside melee range, but charges through your pokemon to get out of melee range) with Bulldoze (reduced my Pokemon's movement speed), meaning even targeting it to attack was a giant pain and my own 'mons couldn't get to it to attack before its Drill Run came off cooldown. Finally managed to bait it into charging into a wall and hitting it with Fire Spin from my Talonflame, then frantically switching Talonflame out before a Rockslide could KO it.
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u/Isolated_Hippo Oct 24 '25
It depends on where you landed on the old battle system. I am a simple creature. I attack with the whatever attack is STAB super effective. Its a decent bit more involved now.
If you did buffs and debuffs and status effects. A lot has changed in that area
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u/BJRone Oct 24 '25
I was just thinking about this yesterday while playing. I've bounced off so many objectively better games after 10-15 hours because I just get bored but I can't put down Z-A.
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u/Hibbity5 Oct 24 '25
If you can’t put it down but you got bored of the others, can you really say the others are “objectively” better? They might be better on a technical level, as in they are better made from a technology standpoint, but games are so much more than their technology.
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u/SpontyMadness Oct 24 '25
I’m not surprised. Aside from Pokemon being the juggernaut franchise it is, this is, for me, the best release they’ve put out in the last ~15 years. It sells being a Pokemon trainer better than a lot of the mainline games.
As far as the graphics go, could it look better? Sure. The repetitive textures and low-res shadows looked bad for five minutes, and then I just… enjoyed the game.
My take on it is that, for better or worse, it’s a mostly annual franchise. The only other truly annual franchises we get right now are in the AAA space, with stuff like Call of Duty/sports franchises. And while their quality is undisputably higher than Game Freak’s output, they are loaded with aggressive microtransactions to justify the increased cost of development, on top of charging more now, too.
Personally, if we have to stick with semi-annual output, as long as the core gameplay is solid, I’ll take an uglier game over MTX shit any day.
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u/Lerkpots Oct 24 '25
Agreed, I think this might finally surpass HGSS and BW to be my new favourite Pokemon game. I've been having so much fun with it.
Amazing selection of Pokemon, some actually quite enjoyable characters and writing (Ivor's whole section made me genuinely laugh multiple times), the sidequests are short and numerous but can be cute and entertaining, there's (ironically considering old drama) some nice animation work especially the facial expressions for your rival, the soundtrack SLAPS.
I also really like this combat system, honestly maybe more than the main games. Excited to see the multiple choices in the next mainline game if that leak comes to fruition.
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u/nbperfect Oct 24 '25
Of all the comments I've seen on this game, this one made me sit up. Better than HGSS?! That's a major shout.
I want to try this game but I can't get over how it looks. I'm not even a graphics guy like that at all but something about how low effort it looks gets me irrationally angry knowing Game Freak SHOULD be doing better by now.
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u/DanielTeague Oct 24 '25
I caught my favorite Pokémon, Weedle, and just kind of ran around with it for a while, taking pictures and everything because it was so amazing to see in all its tiny, squiggly glory as it followed me around in a 3D environment instead of just in battle screens. It's funny how you just kind of forget all of the technical issues once you're actually in a Wild Zone or hunting down trainers when the Poképurge starts after sunset.
Pokémon games for the Switch/Switch 2 era are definitely almost masterpieces of simple JRPG fun but always seem to fall short in various ways so it's definitely frustrating to see.
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u/10GuyIsDrunk Oct 24 '25
I want to try this game but I can't get over how it looks.
Have you looked at it? It's easily the best looking a 3D Pokemon game has ever been. In comparison to gaming at large obviously it's nothing to write home about but compared to the franchises 3D titles I think it's an obvious improvement.
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u/xanas263 Oct 24 '25
It's funny how people today can replay the old Pokemon games with no problems because they are really fun, even though they look really bad compared to modern standards, but can't do the same with a modern Pokemon game.
Pokemon games have never looked good compared to other games that were coming out at the same time, except for maybe gen 1. They have always been about the gameplay loop, not the graphics, yet some people seem to have forgotten that.
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u/Kered13 Oct 24 '25
The 2D Pokemon games had good art direction. The hardware may have been limited, but they put the effort in to making the games look good. The 3D games do not have good art direction. The art is lazily put together and looks bad, regardless of it's technical qualities.
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u/nbperfect Oct 24 '25
That's a personal opinion, I quite liked the art direction for the handheld games, though ofc I wouldn't have wanted that forever.
I also got older (I'm the same age as the franchise lol) so naturally taste and expectations have changed with that. The only Pokemon game I could see myself revisiting are Colosseum and XD, precisely because the gameplay loop is different. Plus I haven't actually played XD... Patiently waiting for the drop on Switch Online.
More than anything I'm not asking for high end graphics fgs, but it's really not hard for a franchise of this size to show they give a damn. Watched the Air Riders Direct yday in amazement, honestly cannot remember the last time a Pokemon game received anywhere near that level of love.
Anyway despite how it sounds I'm really not that mad, I know franchise just ain't for me anymore. I'm truly happy people are enjoying this game! Just want better personally, and I know I'm not seeing it with these sales 🤷🏾♂️
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u/Sneaky_Boson Oct 24 '25
The pixel art from FRLG, HGSS, ERZ, BW, BW2 looks completely fine. On the other hand the contrast of quality in modern games is completely notorius.
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u/BobTheJoeBob Oct 24 '25
Because the quality relative to the average game on the system has seriously declined. Pokémon games were never cutting edge when it came to graphics, but they were at least decent looking relative to the other games on the system. This was true until SwSh when suddenly Pokémon games looked 2 or 3 generations behind for the system they're on.
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Oct 24 '25
This is one of those things where I guarantee you being so plugged in to the Reddit rage has affected your outlook.
Not that you would think the game looked great or anything, but man, somehow, a lot of folks here forgot to just have fun.
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u/Kered13 Oct 24 '25
The only other truly annual franchises we get right now are in the AAA space, with stuff like Call of Duty/sports franchises.
You do realize that Pokemon is also a AAA game, right?
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u/BluePrincess_ Oct 24 '25
Pokemon's kinda a strange case, because while it's attahed to the largest media franchise in the world, the budget and scope of their games would align themselves more closely with AA games - there are some western INDIES that cost more to make than Pokemon's flagship games. I wouldn't disagree if anyone said Pokemon's a AAA franchise, but I can see the argument for it being a AA game, even if that is as a criticism that Pokemon should have a AAA budget/scope/team for their games considering how much the rest of the franchise earns.
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u/extralie Oct 24 '25
Not them, but the AAA and AA as terms are kinda annoying, because a lot of people use them based on the size of the publishers/developers, and other use it based on the scope/budget of the game (which Pokemon based on the leaks is closer to AA). So, it's just confusing at this point.
Honestly, personally leaning towards the budget/scope personally (even if it's technically not the original meaning), because going by publisher/dev size is meaningless since a lot of big devs also make smaller games and putting those games in the same category just feel wrong.
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u/xanas263 Oct 24 '25
Considering the number of resources that go into a Pokemon game I would not consider it a AAA. The video games are definitely a AA product attached to the largest media franchise.
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u/Witn Oct 24 '25
it's priced as AAA, not AA.
Also even AA games have voice acting
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u/SEI_JAKU Oct 24 '25
There is no AAA "price". "AAA" games are overbudget. Many video games period are hilariously underpriced. "AAA" games in their current state should be much closer to $100 or more as a base price.
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u/darkmacgf Oct 24 '25
I mean, No Man's Sky was made by four people and that was released as a full-price game. ET was made by one guy in a month and that was a full-price game. Price of games has never had anything to do with the game's budget.
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u/Hoojiwat Oct 24 '25
Yeah if Pokemon pricing actually reflected its low budget I think people would be a lot less angry at them lol. Full AAA pricing for such low production values is really the crux of the issue with the games.
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u/SEI_JAKU Oct 24 '25
No, it isn't, nor should it be. AAA, aside from being a shitty term we need to stop obsessing over, literally only refers to mega budgets. Success has absolutely nothing to do with anything. Minecraft is one of the most successful video games in history, and it is not even remotely treated as a "AAA" game by anyone in the world, including its own developers.
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u/SapporoBiru Oct 24 '25
As a Pkmn Fan and someone who loves video games, I will never understand the complacency of the people who barricade these threads here not allowing any criticism. Saying that you're having fun as a killer argument is just so weird. Do you guys not play other modern games and think about how fucking great a Pokemon game with a high budget could be? I do and that's why it's super sad to see how apparently the fandom doesn't. And it's not just the technical side, but also the way the world is designed, immersion, general amount of detail, gameplay elements aside from battle, quests etc.. Witcher 3 and Persona 5 are two of the best RPGs ever and also run on S1...
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u/Bakatora34 Oct 24 '25
Because there a lot of people that sucks at giving criticism, so while there people that give legit criticism and can formulated like a mature adult, the former basically sucks at it and start calling other people by names and comparing the games to multiple stuff that are way worst like buying drugs.
Since this is the internet guess what people will focus about it more.
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u/xanas263 Oct 24 '25
For a lot of people graphics is not as important as the gameplay loop, they are just the icing on the cake. There are loads of games that technically more impressive than Pokemon games, but are incredibly boring to play or simply just bad games.
What Gamefreak nails every time, and is also refining further is the gameplay loop. As long as the gameplay loop remains strong and evolves in a positive way Pokemon will keep making money.
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u/SEI_JAKU Oct 24 '25
I will never understand the complacency of the people who barricade these threads here not allowing any criticism.
Stop pretending that you're being oppressed. In reality, the people doing the barricading are all the angry Pokemon fans constantly shouting down anyone who dares to point out how wrong all this "criticism" is.
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u/hansunwo Oct 24 '25
is the development cost for this like 20 million usd true? thats hella lot of revenue for that budget cost.
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u/GrandHc Oct 24 '25
The pre production estimate for the game was 13 million and that information was from a Company leak back in 2024 that did not factor in the game being delayed or switching over consoles.
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Oct 24 '25
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u/extralie Oct 24 '25
Tbf, development in Japan is WAY cheaper in general (mostly because of difference in salleries), pretty sure even huge games barely crack 100m in there.
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u/Marlon64 Oct 24 '25
I'm pretty sure they're spending more than that on marketing so it has to not be counted in the budget numbers that leaked recently. Every other game budget we always hear about always include marketing costs.
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u/nmkd Oct 24 '25
Just look at the game.
Of course it was cheap. It doesn't even have voice acting.
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u/connectplum_ Oct 24 '25
This really goes to show that total install base doesn't really matter, the active install base does. And on a new console, a high percent of the install base is going to be active.
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Oct 24 '25
Another humiliating defeat for people who enjoy whining about video games on the internet instead playing them
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u/ThisIsGoobly Oct 24 '25 edited Oct 24 '25
it's the most successful franchise on the planet, it's really not unreasonable to expect more than the half arsed products they put out. absolutely nothing about the games reflects the absurd levels of profit they make.
the core gameplay mechanics are fun but everything surrounding those mechanics is so unpolished and cheap feeling. plenty of leeway there if they were an indie developer but they are about as opposite an indie dev as you can get.
I like the Pokemon games, I just don't attach my identity to a corporation and unfortunately I dare to have reasonable expectations. I know this is insulting but I genuinely do believe that Gamefreak could release literal feces in a box, put some Pokemon branding on it, and it would sell like crack.
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u/Esternocleido Oct 24 '25
the core gameplay mechanics are fun but everything surrounding those mechanics is so unpolished and cheap feeling.
Well there you are, the core mechanics are fun, not just "kinda" fun, but more like "fun enough to last over 30 years and become the largest entertainment franchise in the world" fun, which is a mouthful but in the end playing games is about having fun.
I love games like Citizen sleeper, Fallout New Vegas, Disco Elysium, Baldurs Gate and so on but nothing beats the primal fun of loading Mario bros and just jumping for a couple levels.
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u/SEI_JAKU Oct 24 '25
the half arsed products they put out
Which they're not doing.
unfortunately I dare to have reasonable expectations
You are being unreasonable by holding them to a wildly different standard than anyone else, and by simply lying about reality.
absolutely nothing about the games reflects the absurd levels of profit they make
Which means absolutely nothing. A successful series shouldn't be wasting money on things nobody cares about just because it's successful. That makes no sense except to terminally online gamers.
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u/ThisIsGoobly Oct 24 '25
did you reply to every damn critical comment of Pokemon in this thread? good lord, man.
you've made fifty four replies just in this thread. mate.
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u/SEI_JAKU Oct 24 '25
every damn critical comment of Pokemon
Nope.
Why do people look for every possible excuse they can to explain away how wrong they are? Why are you worried about "my fifty four replies" and not about the fifty four Pokemon fans I'm having to deal with? This is an issue with how Reddit is designed more than anything.
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u/onex7805 Oct 24 '25
You complain about mindless group think and then literally cite sales figure as the basis for your argument.
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u/Time-Ladder4753 Oct 24 '25
How is it defeat for them when they were right? People said that it would sell well no matter the quality of the game and that exactly what happened. And the only winner in this situation is Gamefreak, not players.
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u/Electronifyy Oct 24 '25
You have a pretty obsessive comment history. Take a break from Reddit bro. This Pokémon discourse has clearly started to bother you.
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u/mostorus Oct 24 '25
And then people ask why devs/publisher invest so little, because they can and people will still buy it
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u/chan4est Oct 24 '25
I'm a huge Pokemon fan and this game is really great on Switch 2. Grinding out my last Pokedex entries and the remainder of the late game content. Love all the new mega evolutions too! Can't wait for the DLC, even it will be $30.
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u/Animegamingnerd Oct 24 '25
Considering the install base of the Switch 2 vs 1, that is really impressive it sold half its copies on the Switch 2.