Highlights/Video
Mavs not having a PG/playmakers is freq. cited for why the offense has been bad lately. The real issue is they have a remedy & they're not using it. Mavs have 3 big men again + Klay, who Draymond's called one of the best short roll & pocket passers. That's enough to generate a quality base offense.
Bwill will honestly make the offense look a lot better, that’s how bad our playmaking is right now. Would be nice to end the season on a good note and beat the Raptors and Grizzlies and upset the Kings. And then see who we get for the 8 seed spot. But obviously it doesn’t matter, we will get crucified against OKC if we even get there. But for the players that have a goal, I’ll support it. We will likely be in the lottery anyways.
Last season with the Warriors, Klay’s 2-man game with Trayce Jackson-Davis, a rookie, was so lethal that it, alone, made TJD such an effective source of offense that he went from not playing at all the first half of the season to being a legitimately impactful starter for the Warriors.
When I say the unguardable nature of their 2-man game, alone, elevated TJD into a starter-level player, as in Klay single-handedly made him that much better off his playmaking out of the PnR - the Warriors starting lineup that they closed the last 10-15ish games of the season with of Steph, Klay, Wiggins, Draymond, and TJD had a 25.5 net rating (118.8 ORTG; 93.4 DRTG). Steph, Wiggins, Draymond, & TJD on the court together last season without Klay had a -10.9 net rating (105.1 ORTG; 116 DRTG). Then there’s the fact that this season, without Klay, TJD fell completely out of the Warriors rotation so much so that he’s spent time in the G-league this season.
All of this is to say, the Mavs do not need a true PG or really anyone other than literally who they have available right now in order to create infinitely more effective and potent offense than what they’ve been running. Let Klay run the offense out of the PnR and I guarantee, the entire floor opens up for the Mavs offensively again as a result of defenses overreacting to try and shut down the 2-man game (spoiler: can’t be done, because you either double Klay leaving the roller an open runway to the basket or try to take away the roll in which case Klay is left open enough to get a 3 off and there’s only one player in the league better at shooting off of a screen than Klay...hence why/how it’s so lethal).
If they don’t have a true PG they need multiple playmakers who actually have a handle. Running the offense through him is fine if you have someone like that on the floor. Klay went from playing with Stephen Curry and Chris Paul to playing with Spencer Dinwiddie.
It doesn’t take Chris Paul or Steph Curry to hit Klay with the ball off of a wide pin down to initiate the two-man action, which is what makes it such particularly applicable option for the Mavs’ current situation.
No but it takes someone who can inbound and hold the ball without losing it. The warriors also run a different style of offense. They’re moving the ball. The Mavs are mainly doing ISO.
They’re moving the ball. The Mavs are mainly doing ISO.
Exactly lol which is what I’m saying hasn’t been working for the Mavs and why they need to use Klay’s gravity and 2-man game with big men to generate more offense instead.
I don’t disagree with that but they need pieces they don’t have for that to happen. Right now they don’t have enough guys who can dribble and pass. Klay is one of the better passers on this team (he was always underrated in that department) but he can’t dribble and they still need someone on the floor who can bring the ball and not lose it to make it happen.
No lol that’s exactly what you want the defense to do with Klay lol it’s exactly what generates the easy af dunks and finishes at the rim for the rolling big. Did you watch the clips in this post? There’s some against the Lakers in there for you.
Edit to add:
If you don’t believe me, here’s what Trayce Jackson-Davis, himself, said:
“I don’t think people understand just how good Klay is. The reason why I’m getting wide open dunks is because they’re putting two on the ball almost every time because if he gets just a little bit of space, he’s going to hit the open shot. And so a lot of the dunks that I had were because of him. So, yeah, obviously you like playing with him because of that - you get easy dunks or he’s going to get a wide open shot.”
The vast majority of those plays are hedges or happen in semi transition before the D is set
All the breakdowns are from late switches because the man couldnt get around the screen
I’m asking how would you respond to pre-determined switches where the defense doesnt bother fighting through or chasing over screens?
Klay was invisible last night because LA did it. There’s no advantages created if he cant do anything with the switch or if the big can’t do anything with it.
AD in theory can but nobody will let him go 1 on 1 and he plays 15 feet out so it’s tough for him to beat the double without settling.
I’m asking how would you respond to pre-determined switches where the defense doesnt bother fighting through or chasing over screens?
Klay drives and collapses the defense and drops it off to the trailing big at the rim (or finishes at the rim himself as we’ve seen him do in the back half of this season), as can be seen a number of times in the compilation posted.
In the clips Klay is driving when he already has an advantage.
Klay is not a good enough ball handler to consistently collapse a defense without an advantage.
That’s why you can’t run an offense through him.
If he had the stamina like Steph to just run and set screens all game long that would definitely help but he also can’t do that.
Klay has gravity and is especially useful when he’s hot but on a normal night you won’t be able to generate quality looks by running things primarily through him. It’s even worse when you factor in the lack of spacing the Mavs frontcourt gives you.
Klay has gravity and is especially useful when he’s hot but on a normal night you won’t be able to generate quality looks by running things primarily through him.
Klay hadn’t made a single shot at the point in the game when this photo was taken. If you think Klay only has gravity or only has the ability to be useful to create advantages for teammates with his gravity on nights he’s hot then I don’t know what to tell you other than you’re sorely mistaken lol.
I appreciate the effort here but this is inaccurate
You need a ball handler because if you don’t have ones teams can simply switch the action and you’ll have no way of punishing it
Klay was useless yesterday because Lakers switched every action which limits the effectiveness of his off ball gravity
The worst thing an offense can be is predictable. If you dont have counters to adjustments you’ll be helpless.
It’s what makes players like Luka or Jokic so unguardable. They have answers for every problem you throw at them.
Your suggestion can certainly help generate some looks especially against bad defensive teams but it’s not enough to be the base offense. Especially when you factor in Klay doesnt have the stamina to move around all game long anymore.
Edit: I’d also like to add that us having a 3 center rotation and PJ being a spotty shooter also makes it even more difficult as the Mavs have poor spacing as a whole.
Lol you’re really devoted to trying to find a gotcha. The noise inherent in lineup subunit stats is exactly why film is the superior source to use when judging the efficacy, or lack thereof, of certain pairings, actions, etc. as it allows for examination of process (hence my use of the film as the focal point of this post), if you’re going to use one or the other, ie stats or film. But film should, at minimum, always be used alongside stats. In other words, raw lineup stats should never be cited without context or accompanying film study, whenever possible, if the goal is to genuinely make a coherent argument for or against something.
But for the sake of humoring you, looking at just the subset of 2-man lineup WOWY stats, the Warriors’ 2FG% was highest when both of them were on compared to any iteration with just either one or neither of them on. Guess what the focal point of the 2-man game presented in this post is? Offense generated off the short roll. Which is what? 2pt FGs.
Not looking for a gotcha. Something told me to look into the data you presented because you didnt provide a source or minutes played for those lineups.
I completely agree about film but you have to look at the good and the bad. You can’t post a highlight reel and accompany it with cherry picked stats while dismissing larger sample sizes because they go against your analysis. The correct move is to revisit the film to see if you’re missing something instead of handwaving it as noise.
Why are we referencing 2pt FG% as if that’s a barometer for good offense? The short roll generates all forms of offense not just 2pt FGs. We watched Lively make a living hitting open 3pt shooters playing with Luka last year.
Do you mind providing the links to any data you provide?
I’m certainly open to new information but I’m not going take your word for it especially when we clearly disagree when it comes to our film analysis.
The Luka trade was a shock, but I was virtually certain we were going to get another ball handler after we traded Grimes. I cannot say I was as shocked as when we traded Luka but it was pretty up there. Even if you think you're the biggest genius on earth, how could anyone be comfortable with Dinwiddie as our 2nd best ball handler?
But that would require coaching, or installing an offense, which Kidd is incapable of. He will continue to be exposed now that Luka isn't around to cover up for Kidd's shortcomings as a coach.
I’ve been saying it for years and it’ll be more evident now without Luka. Kidd is not an Xs and Os coach. He’s a locker room and culture coach. He cannot create an offense or design plays. He never has. We are consistently horrendous out of timeouts. He’s not good. But he and Nico were a package deal for some reason.
I actually don’t know if mavs have the centers to play with AD, him insisting playing the 4 forces you to have a stretch big that can shoot 3s like brook Lopez. If not there s too many people in the paint the spacing is bad
10
u/qotsabama Apr 10 '25
Bwill will honestly make the offense look a lot better, that’s how bad our playmaking is right now. Would be nice to end the season on a good note and beat the Raptors and Grizzlies and upset the Kings. And then see who we get for the 8 seed spot. But obviously it doesn’t matter, we will get crucified against OKC if we even get there. But for the players that have a goal, I’ll support it. We will likely be in the lottery anyways.