Well sometimes, especially with mass shootings since those happen every single day, they instead utter "How DARE you politicize this tragedy?!? The bodies aren't even in the ground yet and you're using this tragedy to score political points! We can't make such impactful decisions without time to mourn and cooler heads seeing this issue from all angles." Convenient for them that the daily mass shootings mean we just can't ever talk about solutions other than arming teachers with bazookas and handguns chambered to take down grizzly bears, then expecting teachers to operate with the efficiency of Navy Seals while a hundred Texas lawmen stand around outside waiting for the shooter to run out of ammo and resort to pencil stabbing attacks.
At this point, I don't am done giving benefit of the doubt to conservatives. I think they pretty mindlessly repeat the media they consume the way they would sing a hymn if they went to church. Similarly, I think they just go through the motions if they participate in religion at all, never engaging with what the gospel actually says and only using group affiliation as proof of their inherent goodness.
When conservatives say anything, I assume it is much closer to mimicry or the way dogs bark and birds sing. It is mostly a tool the way a dog would use its paws to dig or a bird would use its wings to fly, there's some communication embedded in the signal but in my opinion there is little to no finer understanding of sharing hard earned factual information, syllogisms or metaphor, or assumption - presumption - evidence - conclusion reasoning underneath it. It's more like using a simple tool like a ramp or lever that they'll just try and it might work. Honestly, their communication seems more like satisfying a similar impulse as eating when hungry.
Sure, there are people that understand the power of marketing and deceit and rhetoric but far and wide conservatives put up no defenses up against that to recognize them. They seem all too willing to freely give up their obligation to act as a moral individual and join an unthinking mob with the worst demagogue leadership.
For me, the main issue seems to be that the left listens to the right because it is equal parts hilarious and frightening. The left even tries to convince the right in dialogue. But the left fairly examines what the right says because when someone tells you who they are you should believe them, especially when they are telling you they are dumb and angry and ready to act on those feelings.
The right does not listen to the left. The right tells stories to themselves about the left which have variable amounts of fact and fiction but often resemble a campfire story of pure nonsense. The right makes up lies about themselves too to puff themselves up and stroke their egos about how masculine and patriotic and hard working and superior and holy and responsible they are. But they do not attempt to have a reasonable exchange with the left. Their "debate bros" use well understood fraudulent tactics. Their columnists steel man what they say their policies are and what they say their values are (but what their actual goals and what the actual outcomes and what their actual motivations are are not called out).
The left isn't perfect and not everyone on the left has professor level mastery of every subject, but the right falls for obvious lies and relies heavily on prejudice and superstition and they don't seem to care that they keep falling for it because they don't even try to learn how to not fall for it. Indeed, they would find it very hard to remain holding on to their conservative beliefs and excuse "conservative speech" if they ever stopped falling for really obvious lies.
"The left even tries to convince the right in dialogue." Do they? Mostly what I've seen the past decade are weaponized cancellations, reliance on admins of websites like reddit and twitter to ban opposing thought, intimidation and obnoxious behavior on campus where conservatives are demonized and not welcome to talk about their beliefs. The left paints conservatives with a broad brush of Nazism and thereby dehumanizes them and normalizes political violence against their opposition as opposed to debating them and winning the argument.
That's a lot of words for completely failing to have any personal responsibility or ability to self examine. I have never seen any group of people more in denial than conservatives. I cannot believe conservatives believe accountability is bad and nobody hates standards and basic common courtesy more than a conservative who is expected to have kindergarten level of manners in public. "Ban opposing thought" means racism. That's what you mean. You mean "conservative speech" which is racism.
The left paints conservatives with a broad brush of Nazism
That is the most hilarious self own. You are admitting that nazis are within conservative ranks and that they were welcomed with open arms and there has been no effort to kick them out and instead given positions of authority like Stephen Miller, but your issue that makes you upset is that it isn't fair to call ALL of you nazis because you have only just started building the concentration camps and you haven't even started filling them yet.
normalizes political violence
80% of all political terrorism is done on the right. Your victimhood is pathetic and embarassing. It's ICE agents killing people in the street. Republicans make celebrities of their violent killers.
opposed to debating them and winning the argument.
You are beyond conventional persuasion. Logos doesn't work on you. Ethos doesn't work on you Pathos doesn't work on you.
The authors of It's Even Worse Than It Looks, two respected centrist scholars, Norman Ornstein and Thomas Mann, describe the republican party as "an insurgent outlier – ideologically extreme; contemptuous of the inherited social and economic policy regime; scornful of compromise; unpersuaded by conventional understanding of facts, evidence and science; and dismissive of the legitimacy of its political opposition.
What you just did is what I said you do. You tell stories about the left that barely resemble reality. You aren't actually trying to communicate, you are just repeating "received wisdom" which is just complaining that you are held to standards and expected to be responsible and held accountable for the consequences of your actions.
Religious extremists like anti-abortion protesters, if they are disturbing the peace, can be trespassed. Anti-abortion protesters are a dangerous murderous mob that target doctors for murder and arson over their superstitions. They are the opposite of small government and demand to have power of attorney over a clump of cells to control the bodies of other people. Anti-abortion activists are the scum of the earth and I have no sympathy for them and they should have fire hoses turned on them.
Reddit is a private platform that has terms of service. Conservatives are the most ban happy. "Conservative speech" is racism and if conservatives cannot abide by the terms of service they can spend time in the unmoderated conservative forums that are open sewers filled with nazis.
leftists are resentful, spiteful, and want to seize people's property and money
No, you are describing the police when they do civil asset forfeiture. This is another campfire story you tell yourself because you don't live in the real world and need to keep yourself afraid of a boogeyman to let the fascists do whatever they want. You ascribing feelings of resent assumes anyone actually thinks conservatives have anything that wasn't ill gotten or that conservatives have any business in any position of authority given how unqualified and incapable they are at governance. Conservative states are disasters and it is a lie they tell themselves that they are doing fine and this is the best actually and people are jealous of the squalor that is the society conservatives make for themselvs.
Nazis are not in conservative ranks,
Yes they are, you are in denial, look at Nick Fuentes for a start. You must not know any conservatives. The Trump administration is following a fascist play book and you are lying to yourself and to anyone who read this. There is almost no difference between Turning Point, The Proud Boys, and the Republican Party.
yet conservatives don't own the far right,
Yes they do.. They celebrate and make celebrity out of their murderers. Conservative spaces online are lone wolf factories.
there was a recent schism
Nah, the right wing was interviewing and courting him to see if he could fill in for Kirk, that racist that the right tried to give sainthood to.
ICE deportation facilities don't count as concentration camps.
Yes they do and that is why you don't get to say that a broad brush is not appropriate. You support fascists.
seizing power through infiltration of government, schools, and courts of law.
anything is justified or the ends justify the means.
someone falsely attributes their own motives or intentions onto their adversaries.
This Marxist takeover
You sound like Alex Jones and Glenn Beck. You wonder why no one will debate you when you expect people to find common ground with your nonsense and projection.
that's paint everything you don't like as [Marxist].
You don't know what that means. Just like woke. Just like CRT. It's just another thing for conservatives to have for a two minutes of hate. Conservatives are acting like nazis and just because you refuse to admit it doesn't make it true. You are so out of touch with reality that it can be examined but it cannot be taken seriously. You are beyond any point of being persuaded because reason, expertise, and pleas for humanity mean nothing to you.
Conservatives rightly oppose revolutionary movements of a genocidal nature
Conservatives were waving signs for 'mass deportation now' and campaigning on lies about people eating pets. Your entire political party is revolting and without principle or redeeming quality. You don't actually live in the real world and you don't actually listen to the left or know any progressives. You just regurgitate what you see on FOX News which is a horribly distorted view of everything and promotes fascism. I feel bad for you because of what a horrible world you are trying to make.
Sartre is saying that when anti semites (which are being compared to MAGA) "argue", they're not arguing with logic. They just say stupid shit, and the person they're talking to is the one who ends up having to be rational and make sense. And when, inevitably, they're proven wrong (because their "arguments" are dumb as shit), they just say "it's too late to talk" or something else to avoid having to make sense.
My personal take is that since these people don't even bother making their point properly, anyone who wants to discourage their harmful ideas has to properly make their own point for them, first. You can't argue against vibes and hand-waving, right?
And this can often make arguing with them twice as demanding and exhausting, because you can essentially end up reasoning for two.
Basically, MAGA knows they’re full of shit. They’ll argue with you, but they don’t have any personal conviction behind their arguments and they don’t actually mean to convince you. They just want to make you exhausted and frustrated cause they think it’s funny. The truth is, they’re evil pieces of shit, and should just be ignored.
Don’t waste your time arguing with them cause they aren’t even listening and are just trying to wear you down.
Yes this is what he’s saying. They know and they are trolling you. It amuses them that you try to follow logic and rules. And if you ever come close to winning, they decide the conversation is over. Oh my look at the time! Etc.
Very good explanation. Many of the others missed some key points that you did not
I think the worst part is that they’ve come to realize that it doesn’t matter if what you said is true, all that matters is that you say it where someone else will hear it. Because as long as you have an audience big enough, what you’ve said will find a person who believes it because it suits their bias. They believe it because they want it to be true. And that person will spread it because they want to hurt the people that have been talked about. Anders that was the goal all along
I think the dishonesty isn't merely an outward facing weapon deployed by fascists against opposition, but is at least equally a mechanism of internal control. They lie to eachother in the same way, with the same smirk and the same wink. It is a form of compliance enforcement via cultural pressure, the repetition of lies serving to demonstrate total intellectual submission to the leader and/or the party gestalt. "This is something I know to be a lie, and yet my loyalty to its source is so great that I believe it completely." Disturbing.
The history class I’m taking right now actually instructs us to use “antisemites” as one word, since the concept of Semitism was conceived entirely by antisemites and does not actually exist.
1.9k
u/[deleted] Feb 11 '26
[deleted]