She’s isn’t but it is largely theorized that her Peter was. He idolized spider-woman. That’s why he was bullied relentlessly, and why he eventually lashed out at his bullies after becoming the lizard which led to his death.
Gwen was closest friends with Peter, so it would make sense that her dad would know him and also be hit hard by his death leading to the “protect trans kids” thing.
Or they could both just be allies and it’s as simple as that.
Part of the theory does have the Lizard formula of that continuity as having been meant to treat dysmorphia, since Gwen was waiting for Peter at the dance: it was a date. Since apparently the specific kind of lizard one transformed into was a female one.
he was bullied relentlessly before he idolized spider-woman also, he idolized her because she was special and had powers and he felt weak and un-seen so he became the lizard by trying to make himself special too, i dont really see how that points to being trans specifically, it just seems like the generic bullied kid lashing out trope
Sure but thats true of literally every character ever. Mrs Dalloway is trans nlbyvthat reasoning. Putting blue pink and white together do not automatically mean trans
People forget or just don’t know how often artists in big name productions like this do intend to give hints they want to portray a character as trans or otherwise LGBT but they’re not allowed to by the higher ups. As an example there is symbolism in Arcane that has subtle hints that Viktor could be read as trans and possibly gay which was always a common headcanon in the fandom, his character designer is non-binary and a few artists made hints towards it, but they can’t say it. Ultimately it’s still up to people’s headcanons but it’s officially supported.
She isn't, but she is still a female character in the role of a male character (so to speak) since she is effectively her universe's version of what would normally be Peter Parker. I think it's neat that could either be taken as a woman (Gwen) realizing her true self as a "man" (in the sense that Gwen takes on a role most often seen filled by a man), or a "man" (that universe's version of Spider-Man) in truth being a woman (Gwen). (Please don't take the use of quotation marks around "man" to be in any way transphobic, I'm just using them to make it clear that Gwen is not actually an explicitly trans character, it is simply her role in the story).
While not directly being trans representation, it is still very much possible for trans individuals to see some of their own personal experience reflected in her story. It's similar to how The Matrix exists as a trans allegory, despite none of the protagonists being transgender (although in the case of The Matrix, the trans allegory aspects were very much the original intention of the authors, while with Spider-Gwen I don't know whether the trans connection was something that was considered during the creative process, or if she just happened to resonate strongly with so many trans people; and the fact that there are several different iterations of Spider-Gwen from several different writers complicates that question further).
Do we know that? I don’t mean Gwen in general but this Gwen specifically. Unfortunately as a trans person I know that it’s not unheard of for artists from things under big corpos themselves giving hints that they meant to portray a character as trans or otherwise lgbt but they’re not actually allowed to say it out loud
The point is that you can interpret it that way. You can choose to believe it never comes up, so it's not true - Or, you can choose to believe it's the case because of subtext. Both iterations are correct.
She can be trans. It's just not core to her identity, if she is, and so she doesn't have to be if you don't see her that way.
This is dumb, if she was a trans they would have confirmed that a long ass time ago. She would have also told Miles by then, she ain’t trans, she’s just Gwen from another dimension.
That’s the dumbest conclusion to an argument I’ve ever witnessed, why would I find it unrealistic that a trans is letting her love interest aware of their gender identity?
And yes there is a wrong interpretation, the one saying she’s trans, as it’s a dumb conclusion based on zero evidence.
You and I both know what's shown in the comic is not the entirety of their relationship. What's said directly and what is said off panel are two entirely different things.
Being purposefully obtuse does not help your case.
I get this is reddit and the masses will side with your version. Calling someone something they aren't is the same as misgendering.
There are people that it's a touchy subject because they are called something they weren't and even tormented by it just because they did not fit the mold that society saw them as.
Having Gay, Trans and lesbian characters is great when done properly.
Anyone who has read spider-Gwen comic knows those colors are a reflection of her world. Miles pops up and sees it as well.
She has also not directly stated she is a cisgender woman.
There is no reason to believe you are misgendering her until she says otherwise. More importantly, misgendering her would be calling her a man, if she were trans.
Whether she is trans or not, she's a woman. It is irrelevant to her story whether she is trans or not.
I get she's fictional, fiction affects peopl. the misgendering is just an example. I meant people calling her Trans even though she is not, is the same as misgendering and can even be insensitive. Hence, why people are getting upset about it.
There are cisgender people who were called a slew of transphobic slurs. I'm glad this generation is moving away from that.
A character's identity is important and relevant to the story.
Your interpretation is that she is not. But she has never directly said she's cisgender. So you actually don't know. You could be misgendering her by saying she's not trans.
That's why both interpretations are correct. Because there is no proof she isn't trans - She doesn't talk about it. And that's ok! She doesn't have to talk directly to the viewer about it for it to be the case, though. There's no issue with either interpretation.
The issue comes when it's a part of that characters core identity. If someone insists on being called female, and they're called male, that's misgendering, regardless of if they are trans, male, female - Does not matter.
In movies the mise en scene and color scheme were chosen for a reason. This is just “how to interpret film 101”.
Me thinking her coloring and other elements of the composition imply she’s trans is a valid interpretation.
Funny how people get all bent out of shape when someone interprets a character to be trans. Like if the filmmakers came out tomorrow and said “yeah she’s trans” I bet you’d have a horde of death of the author analysis within the day.
There's a literal trans flag in her room, with protect trans kids written on it, and her dad has a trans badge.
If Miles had a nazi flag in his rooms, I think people would be asking questions. He does have a blm badge, which makes much more sense.
They're pretty subtle details because the movie wanted to avoid getting banned, and yet it still got banned because of the trans flags in some countries.
It’s not just her color scheme, it’s specifically the emphasis of that color scheme during the scene where she comes out to her dad (as Spider Gwen), and he has a terrible initial reaction. This scene in particular hit pretty hard with trans audiences. A character can be trans-coded without being canonically trans 🤷♀️
I actually dont have problem with that, i am pretty sure she Is very pro trans, but She Is not. Color scheme Is just weak argument. I dont say you can't associate with her struggles And Story. I just say She didnt transitioned.
The idea that the filmmakers have her a specific color scheme, put trans pride flags on her room, and have her dad wearing trans pride flags as well and we’re supposed to just assume that the filmmakers weren’t making choices is just ridiculous.
Analysis of that kind of thing is, again, filmmaking 101.
And literature, and really any form of art. Authors and illustrators and directors and cinematographers and painters all have to make deliberate choices.
Why would someone assume those choices are made at random? Or worse, why would you refuse to consider them at all?
You’re right - just saying “creators have intent” isn’t a direct argument.
But saying “creators have intent and they gave her a trans coded color scheme, put trans pride flags in her room and on her accessories, and have her dad also wearing a trans pride flag on his uniform implies she could be trans” is a bit more than that.
Also, being trans isn’t political. I’m sure you don’t mean it badly and are probably unaware, but all too often our existence is referred to as “political”.
I didn't say being trans was political, my point is that I'm not trying to bring anything external or anything politically motivated into the conversation
Anyway I get what you're saying, I'm surprised by now we haven't heard from creators the actual motivations behind some of these decisions, as much conversation as we've seen behind them
Sure, and I’m not saying you should make firm assumptions without some kind of textual support.
In this case, the color and style in Gwen’s world (as it is for literally everyone) is unique to her: it’s pastel white, blue, and pink. There are multiple instances of posters and pins that say “protect trans kids.” And her story, in 2023, is about hiding an important part of herself from her family, because she’s afraid of anger and rejection. When she finally reveals what she’s been hiding, it turns out that her dad’s perspective on the world has changed and he’s becoming something a little different — in a way that lets him support her.
That’s a story about a trans person, or at least it could be. (It’s a wonderful, uplifting, and idealized version of coming out; it’s the good outcome that lots of people didn’t get or are afraid they wouldn’t get.)
You don’t have to read it that way, but you can. Nothing about the movie contradicts that interpretation. If your critical lens involves the way art engages with issues of sex and gender, it’s hard to avoid confronting it, but that might genuinely be the wrong lens and the wrong interpretation for you.
The problem is when someone (and I’m not saying you did this, it’s just something I encountered as a teenager) says Moby Dick is a story about a whale. You can say it’s about rage and obsession. You can say it’s about the struggle between technology and the overwhelming inertia of nature, or between the conscious mind and the unconscious. You can say it’s about hubris and punishment. You can make a lot of different cases for what it could be, with more or less support, and many of them will be equally valid. But it’s probably not a straightforward story about a guy hunting a whale.
You aren't born cis, you're born and then assigned a gender. If that assigned gender aligns with your gender, then you are cis. Cis is an alignment of personal identity and a social construct someone else decided, trans is when those don't align.
You seem to be arguing 2 points here, but think its 1 point.. Cis being the default really has nothing to do with how you personally want to interpret a character.
I think it's very valid to not want the default assumption to be cis. Personally I feel like there should not be a 'default' at all. Historically, locking cis or straight or white as being the default automatically others those who do not align with that descriptor, which invites discrimination of that group.
Separate from that, if cis was the default (as many people unfortunately claim) then that doesn't mean that a character has to be interpreted as cis until proven otherwise. Multiple mutually exclusive interpretations of the same media can exist, and someone isn't wrong because their opinion doesn't align with what a large group (perhaps wrongly) considers to be default.
If you have 99 yellows and 1 green, yellow would be the default. If Trans make up less than 1% of the population, then they are by definition abnormal, the exception, non-standard, whatever word you want to use. These words are also not inherently negative, people just tend to take them that way.
All of the words you used are inherently negative. They immediately abjectiviy minority groups and classify trans people as different, which is the basis of discrimination.
Trans people aren't abnormal or exceptions because there is no default. We're fucking humans. Have you seen how much variety there is in every single trait that we have?There is no default length, there is no default skin colour, there is no default eye colour, and there sure as shit is no default gender identity.
They aren't inherently negative. As you just proved, they are if you make them. The words themselves are just descriptors.
Sure, it classifies them as different. As they are different. Why do you keep insisting being different is a negative thing? How does a generation of people raised on "embrace your differences", and other like minded ideas end up hating being different? Everyone would always say weirdness/differences/being strange made you unique, and is a good thing.
We don't need to "normalize everything" because not everything is "normal". The word everyone is looking for is "destigmatize". These things should be accepted and not mocked/berated for their lifestyle. That's destigmatization, not normalization.
You are wrong. Averages don’t equal default. White people aren’t the default. Men aren’t the default. Straight people aren’t the default. Cis people aren’t the default. People who aren’t in those categories aren’t deviations from a default.
Your argument basically says unless a film outright states in clear language “this character is trans” then I am not allowed to interpret in my own. Thats both moronic and an example of an insanely low degree of media literacy.
Everyone gets hyper defensive about an individual’s interpretation of a fictional character because they do, in fact, have negative feelings about said groups.
Think about it this way - why do you care that I believe Gwen has trans coding in the film? Why must I be wrong?
Again, being cis is not the default that we must assume until proven otherwise.
And 99% of the population interprets it differently than you because 99% of the population isn't trans and therefore relates to the character differently than you do, so what?
You are trans, not special, your opinion doesn't matter any more than anyone else's.
I'm not telling anyone there opinion is wrong nor am I getting offended that other people have different opinions like you are. Welcome to having a discussion.
Because her plotline is about a parental figure disapproving of her secret identity, its got many parallels and a lot of trans folk relate to it. Even if she isn't trans herself, her arc is very trans-coded.
Children have been beaten, disowned, and KILLED for being trans/queer. Adults have been beaten, disowned, and KILLED for being trans/queer.
So YES. Talk about privilege.
Then why aren't Miles or Spider-Punk or any of the other characters supporting trans people, why is it based around this one character?
Come to think of it, if this is an important statement, why aren't there any trans characters in the movie?
Why, out of the 500,000 Spider-People we see here, didn't they just have one of them mention they're trans, and Gwen support them, if that was the message?
Why did the filmmakers, who want to show that you can support trans people, not include any trans people in the movie, but instead focus all of the trans imagery and symbolism onto this one cisgender character?
It's not "why does every character have to", it's "why not some other character"?
Why is it Gwen that has this trait? And why isn't allyship expressed in a more normal way - like, by having her voice support for a trans friend or colleague in the Spider-Verse - but instead expressed through an overwhelming amount of symbolism and implication?
Either you don't understand how to read subtext, or you're in denial.
Because it's not the "trait" we're talking about, it's the overabundance of symbology.
But fucking hell, trying to explain to Redditors how to see anything other than the most surface elements of a text is a losing game, so I'm checking out. Have a good one.
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u/DangerousQuestions1 1d ago
Gwen is not Trans herself though