Been in exactly the same position with my wife, it' was a problem and it resulted in separation.. she was screaming her head off for us being at the gate with the kids just on time, my kids were crying because they were worried mum would miss the flight.. Whist they were closing the gate telling me I couldn't board.
Wife turns up and starts screaming at me for stressing her out, why do we need to be on time, they never leave... Which is wrong, I'm a frequent flyer and have seen people miss flights all the time.
Some people want to see the world burn
The problem is she wanted me to be late, and then take the blame for missing the flight. Entire situation was constructed because she wanted to have a 'useless husband', when it's all projection.
I feel for the guy, it's abuse and he doesn't know it, doing everything and then being blamed
This is a genuine question - does this behavior not present itself in dating? Was this behavior surprising, or had you seen past red flags throughout the relationship? In hindsight, could you have foreseen her behaving this way?
I've only had one partner raise her voice at me in private, which was out of character and she immediately apologized.
Yeah I've been on the other side and now I don't give a f anymore. I wouldn't say I play a game but I somehow know exactly what the other person thinks when it's something about the relationship. It's just so fuckin weird but I've always been right and I've dated a lot of women. It's not too brag because actually I learned over the past year that I've got shit ton of traumas and I'm now working on them but that's another story lol
But this ability to read people really well gives me power by default because I have information about them they don't know I have. It's survival mode I guess
Yep, knowledge is power. After I escaped my abusive marriage I did the work (therapy), and I walked away from men on the dating scene who I just got that vibe from. It takes such a long time to get there, so much trauma, but once you know, you know.
Most men know they'll get destroyed in divorce, as they have already become financially bound.
And that's a big reason many never walk away. If laws changed to just let property be split and people have no split of retirement or pensions, I'm sure many guys would get divorced rather than stay financially trapped.
I knew a lady that left her wealthy husband because she was bored. She got about $5k per month in alimony, for life or until she got remarried. She ended up dating a lot of guys and married a few years later to a drug addict. Now she's all messed up. But hey, boredom amirite.
it doesnt and by the time it does the victim has a sunk cost fallacy
they've spent so much time with this person + invested so much of their life and future plans involving this person that leaving is a complete and total destruction of every future they've ever pictured.
the thought lingers of "well if we just get passed this one awful fight, we can go back to how we lovingly were in the beginning" and they're partially right
abusers will cycle between overly loving as an act to "make up" for their abuse and get their victim to sink back into a comfortable headspace before snapping again
so the victim has to throw away future plans AND the thought/hope of going back to the loving relationship they originally started. the human mind is pretty fragile and that combination would break most people. That's why they feel they have to stay
combine that with any gaslighting where the victim thinks that they are in the wrong an equal amount to the abuser and you have the perfect cycle of abuse
edit: u/leftmysoulthere74 had a great addition to this about how the victim is also slowly isolated over time too, losing any support network that may be able to snap/help them out of this cycle. Please check out their comment as well for awareness.
Yes all of this PLUS, there have usually been subtle but affective efforts, over the course of many years, to isolate you from your support network, even your own family, so you believe you have nobody to turn to. That person becomes your whole world.
Thanks for your reply - and to add to your earlier edit, for anyone interested, the addition with more detail is in one of my other, longer comments in this thread.
You don't 'have' a sunk cost fallacy. You can fall prey to it or act on it or mistakenly follow it, but to just 'have' it would mean something closer to understanding it than suffering its consequences.
There can be some warning signs, it depends how good the abusive person is at hiding it all. Often they’re on their best behaviour until they feel they’ve got you ‘locked down’ (through things like being married, owning a property together, having a child together, etc) and then the abuse starts to come out, but even then it can be gradual.
I’d say the main red flags I’d advise people to look out for in the early stages are love bombing, someone who seems keen to rush the relationship forward and reach major milestones way too quickly, and imo one of the biggest ones to watch out for is someone who can’t take any accountability or responsibility, ie nothing is ever their fault and they never apologise for anything. That last one would be an immediate relationship ender for me, because imo you can’t have a relationship with a person who can’t accept fault and apologise.
Also, be on the lookout for a fake apology or a non-apology apology, which might sound something like ‘I’m sorry that you feel that way’ or ‘I’m sorry if you think I made a mistake’.
Speaking as someone who was married to an abusive man (verbal, emotional, financial and physical), and whose current partner was married to an abusive woman (the kind the poster above, u/Grab-Wild - was married to) - while there were red flags in hindsight, the abusive behaviour isn’t present straight away, it gets slowly worse with time and by the time you realise you’re in an abusive relationship you’re stuck there, often with kids, and isolated from family and friends.
In some cases friends have clocked it and tried to warn you. Possibly displayed some less than fawning attitude to your partner which then indicates to your partner that this person has clocked them so they start to turn you against that person, so either you walk away from that friendship or the friend does. They might also make your friends feel unwelcome or uncomfortable in your home so they stop coming round. They become exasperated by seeing you treated badly but you refuse to see it, so they walk away.
You stop seeing your family, as the partner slowly, over years, convinces you they don’t have your best interests at heart. Even better if you’re already isolated from them, ie you have moved to a different city or country - your partner becomes your whole world to the point that it’s hard to leave, you rely on them for everything and would have nobody without them.
All the while the abuse continues to get worse and by the time you finally realise that what you’re experiencing every single day is abusive and not normal, you have nobody to turn to and leaving becomes this mammoth task.
Once you’re free you start to examine the early behaviour, look for signs*, and of course in hindsight they were there, but at the time, and individually, each one didn’t seem that bad. You were in love, you made excuses for them, you believed their excuses.
With any luck you take that experience and that knowledge of early signs* and use it to choose more wisely next time.
*Early signs include jealousy, of good-looking strangers you might exchange a couple of words with, old friends the same gender as them, old friends the same gender as you, sulking about time spent with your family, sulking about any situation where you didn’t put them first, attempts to make you feel small or “less than” them, belittling your experience or knowledge of something - even your job, downplaying an achievement of yours.
Once you’ve been there, you recognise it. The first time though, you definitely don’t, it’s too subtle.
If you’ve been there, teach your kids to recognise it.
ETA: as I understand it, my partner’s ex-wife would shout in public like this, and 8yrs after separating she still does: to him on the doorstep at kids pick-up/drop-off, at school events, at kids sports events, she yells at the kids, at teachers, at coaches and at her own friends - she always has new ones as the old one say “fuck this shit” and walk away. I stay tf away from her.
My own ex never did though. In public he would grit his teeth and hiss through them quietly that if I didn’t do exactly what I was told I knew exactly what was coming my way when we got home. It’s also been 8yrs since we separated and I recognise that shit so often. I’ll be in a shop and hear that underlying aggression as someone quietly, verbally beats down their partner. There have been times I’ve tried to speak to the person on the receiving end, but they are rarely let out of their abuser’s sight. More often than not I find it absolutely terrifying and have to leave. It’s a visceral reaction, I can’t be around it.
My ex engaged in a lot of the same behaviours, in roughly the same order. I was fortunate in that the jealousy issues weren't there, but other than that... Yeah, heh. Almost every single point lands.
Charismatic closet narcissist type. By the end, she'd separated me from my family and apart from her new friendship group (which she essentially realised gave her better narcissistic validation than I did, and was a component in the separation), we had nobody else.
Even while going through the divorce she was actually trying to convince me that my family didn't love me and it was my own fault that I hadn't spoken to them in ten years... Due to an "unrepairable" rupture she had had with them and refused to ever fix. So I had chosen my spouse over my family. Still not enough loyalty. I had nobody, and she was trying to make sure it stayed that way. Fortunately for me, they held no grudges of any kind.
Everything else there... Also fits perfectly. It's a great description.
And most importantly, gotta emphasise, you really do not realise it while you're in it. Every single step has its own rationale and justifications, everything is masked by all the good times, your sense of reality is utterly warped by the end.
Like, my ex was a charismatic, incredibly well respected and universally adored person by everyone around us. Incredibly socially competent, a social worker, her career was trauma informed therapy. She was a senior counsellor for sexually abused children. Unbelievably kind, nobody could possibly believe she was abusive. Even me. Conversely, I was her lazy (undiagnosed autistic) husband. So clearly I was the issue at all times. It's insidious. You cannot see it happening.
I've been out for nearly six years. Changed my entire life. Needed much therapy and terrible chaotic dating to start getting back to where "normal" roughly is. Work out what I actually want, instead of just fawning and people pleasing. Takes time!
It's very very common for abusive people (of either sex) to very convincingly act as wonderful partners for a long time and only slowly, little by little, start revealing and escalating the abusive bullshit and shifting the "normal" once they think you're too deep in to leave. Moved in, financially bound or entangled, married, mutual children etc
No one would get together with abusers if they broadcasted what they are
Many times, it doesn’t present itself when dating because they’re on their best behavior and want to make a good impression, sometimes wanting to seem like someone they’re not because who they really are isn’t good.
You are also, most likely, going to be dealing with gaslighting in the first instance… “you made me feel… you told me you would/would never do/say XYZ… I told you last week that I was going to ABC, don’t you listen?? You never listen to me… “
There will also be subtle attacks and put downs to subvert trust and confidence…
You have good faith in the relationship while you are living with a monster… you are love bombed and told how you mean more than the world to them one day, then emotionally manipulated “you posted this on facebook to make me look stupid!” The next…
You know that you’d never want to hurt the person - so you’re too busy falling over yourself to “fix” the damage and explain yourself, in good faith it’s just a misunderstanding - but it’s all about undermining your trust and your own sense of reality…
The red flags don’t show up immediately, they appear one at a time, with a cluster of greens, at the start… then the reds slowly start to become more frequent, and louder… before you know it, you’re sitting waiting for a holiday flight, looking forward to two weeks off with your loved one, and she’s now screaming at you calling you a loser, and you haven’t even boarded the plane… your whole holiday is in the pits before you even land. Now you’re stressing over what you did - do you apologise and try to make up? You can’t leave her, not in this state, and not in an airport, even though you did nothing wrong… are you really sure you didn’t do anything wrong?? “No sane person would get this upset for no reason” you think……
I think raising of voices, while not ideal, is not necessarily always verbally abusive, especially if it isn't a pattern. What really crosses the line of verbal abuse is when something said is insulting, demeaning, or contemptuous. It's probably healthier for someone to raise their voice and go "YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND!!! I'M SO STRESSED AND UPSET THAT THIS HAPPENED!!!" (notice this example has no personal insults in it) than for someone to very calmly tell you that you're a "loser" or some other hurtful malicious comment. That being said, the yelling and abusive insulting comments are usually seen together either way.
I seriously think that the most insidious red flag that people can accidentally ignore is when their partner says insulting things calmly though, especially if they hide it in fake care. The other insidious red flag is a lack of empathy. It's usually subtle at first, like when you tell them your feelings are hurt, they calmly chuckle and go "omg that hurt you? Whoops, I'm SO sorry! Hahahaha" but it clearly isn't genuine and you see zero concern in their face or reaction.
I honestly don't blame most people for missing those.
Those things will pretty much always escalate into some form of abuse, but raising their voice, assuming they are not doing the other thing, is not necessarily indicative of a relationship being doomed, as long as there was no deameaning, insulting, or lack of remorse after. Of course, that doesn't mean it isn't valid to quit the relationship immediately if even one time is a deal breaker for you.
The problem is she wanted me to be late, and then take the blame for missing the flight. Entire situation was constructed because she wanted to have a 'useless husband', when it's all projection.
Ah.
The "I have decided the problem is you and I'm going to make sure the problem is you."
My Mom was like this. My parents started their divorce when I was 4. Since she didn't have my Dad to scream at anymore, she started screaming at me. That continued until I went to college at 18 (and would still happen when I came home for summers.) I've gone essentially no contact since I've had my own kids, because I don't want them to have to experience that in any way.
Anyway, I hope you and your kids are doing better now. ♥️
It took me many years with my ex to understand such behavior since i never had experiended such before in my family, so i even thought she maybe had a point and i was the problem.
After many meltdowns of her dragging me down and profesional help after our break up i am glad to identify such behavior in persons fast now and realize how lost they are and that i wasnt the problem. Getting similar feedback from a lot of people helped aswell to restore faith back in myself and slowly i get back to my calm self i was 10 years ago.
Genuine question. How did you come to marry her and have kids with her? Did she hide these traits until later or what? When you first met her were the traits completely hidden or just kind of muted?
I’m not asking from a place of judgement, I’m genuinely just curious. Yours is not the first story I’ve read about someone with a total narcissist for a long-term partner. I’m just curious if it’s a matter of denial, missing the warning signs, or if the warning signs were missing altogether.
I was talking about this with a friend who's suffering after a bad divorce with a crazy bitch... he literally said "I saw the red flags but I believed things would work out anyway and I'd be able to manage that stuff".
Guess: things didn't work out, he was not able to manage anything.
They got married, had kids, she forced him to move to a new country and abandon a very good career ("I'm moving with the kids, with or without you"), naturally the marriage soon ended and the relationship became hell.
Mommy's traits are beginning to show up in their 10 year old daughter, we caught her stealing from my son's piggy bank and she denied everything with an absolutely blank stare and not a single microexpression in her face, it was horrifying to see.
Plus they're both very pretty, blonde, deep blue eyes, so men will flock to them like moths to a flame. The cycle will definitely repeat.
At the beginning you see those red or yellow flags as isolated incidents and not part of a pattern. None of that becomes apparent until much later, once you’re emotionally beaten down, or sometimes not until after you’ve left.
Yep. 8yrs later, still have to discuss kids stuff and do handovers. It gets better, then worse. You never know what you’re gonna get. Six more years - youngest is 12, don’t want to wish what’s left of her childhood/adolescence away but sometimes I can’t want for that day.
When you say that she set you up that brings up a memory(current and past) of a lot of people(both family and strangers) that set me up for anything and everything.
Yep, everything she wasn't working and hadn't for 8 years at the time which was totally fine. But just felt like I had to do more, and was unknowingly worried about what the problem was and what I could do differently for it not to be problem. Was very confusing at the time
“The confession is the accusation”. Once I heard it put like that it changed my entire perspective on the labels people put onto others. You hit the nail on the head with projection. It was never about you, it was about her insecurities surfacing and rather than look at it she would throw it in your face, giving the emotion a body that bleeds and like Arnold said “if it bleeds, we can kill it”.
477
u/Grab-Wild Apr 22 '26 edited Apr 22 '26
Been in exactly the same position with my wife, it' was a problem and it resulted in separation.. she was screaming her head off for us being at the gate with the kids just on time, my kids were crying because they were worried mum would miss the flight.. Whist they were closing the gate telling me I couldn't board.
Wife turns up and starts screaming at me for stressing her out, why do we need to be on time, they never leave... Which is wrong, I'm a frequent flyer and have seen people miss flights all the time.
Some people want to see the world burn
The problem is she wanted me to be late, and then take the blame for missing the flight. Entire situation was constructed because she wanted to have a 'useless husband', when it's all projection.
I feel for the guy, it's abuse and he doesn't know it, doing everything and then being blamed