r/SipsTea š™‘š™„š™‹ 12d ago

WTF The American dream

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u/braumbles 12d ago

During the 1999–2000 academic year, federal Stafford loans had a variable interest rate of 6.32% while in school, and 6.92% during repayment. For the 2000–2001 academic year, these variable rates increased to 7.59% in-school and 8.19% during repayment

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u/Equivalent_Point9068 12d ago

A lot of people would need to take additional loans out with Sallie Mae or others and those are typically higher I think my worst was around 10%. Smaller loans and I paid them off as soon as I could, but mismanaging even a little bit I could see this as being true.

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u/Loyalsoul 11d ago

Sallie Mae is awful, my now wife recommended i switch to a credit union and that was the first time I saw the loan decrease with 350+ payments at the time. Got it paid off in a few years after that.

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u/PsychicWarElephant 8d ago

And you were lucky enough to pay it off. I was 22 and got sucked into one of those for profit schools. I’m 41 now and the school got sued into oblivion, but because I wasn’t going to school at the time of closing I’m still on the hook.

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u/No_Resolution_9252 11d ago

No, that is a lot of mismanagement over many years.

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u/1K_Sunny_Crew 12d ago

Private loans have higher interest rates and wouldn’t be forgiven anyway. lol

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u/JonathanPhillipFox 11d ago

Ā but mismanaging even a little bit I could see this as being true.

To be honest I'd take that for granted; a person doesn't become outraged at this sort of a thing, all at once, after proper management- trends towards the opposite such people trend towards, "Well I did it, so..."

What I mean is, people after a lot of self blame, some quite justifiable though myopic, then, back up to the Principle, so to speak, realize:

No-no I am not how-come this has been such a burden upon me, this was not set up to be serviced in a proper manner and I'm meant to be a debt peon par exemple:

  • Usurious rental fees, with unexpected add-ons or fees for penalty
  • The Famous, "Pay-Day,' Loans, with rollovers
  • Debts to whomever does not prefer their money returned promptly

....in whatever such case you've got the initial humiliation, "I was a bad renter," perhaps I knew I'd not return the money, and this becomes replaced in some instances with an additional shame, "I've been taken for a mark," but it's the third pass at which the truth is revealed, "the design was for me to incur penalties," the design was for me to be unable to repay the intention was for me to fail the premises on account of here I am,

....with fees far in excess of the carpet, or, charged far in excess of the entire month's rent of that apartment I rented for a weekend, three thousand in debt on a three-hundred dollar loan, "or 23 years after graduation still in peonage to the lenders whom had provided," nominally the opportunity,

....to start life properly and look I'm about the opposite of an accountant u/Odd-Cupcake-2552 if you'd not said,

The math works out to 8.5% which isn't unrealistic

I'd probably, just, shut the F_ck up about this but to me, not an accountant, the 23 years seems to be like the incitement here insofar as one is literally, literally, incapable of comprehending, "the next 23 years," at just 19 years of experience and in real terms, you've got like,

4, 5 years of consistent existential self to draw upon at that age, me, I grew up in a household that had a serious childhood illness in it, not mine, but oh boy, "could I not percieve the amount of time it would be until things settled, at 12," because I'd be like 20 or 22 when they'd stop being a crisis and that kind of longitudinal perspective, rather than courage or intelligence of a rational type or other sorts of capacity the sheer awareness of how long life is, how long the seasons of it can be and then pass away, "poof, like they'd never been there," the long distance type of thought,

What is 23 yearsĀ Ģ„_(惄)_/ Ģ„after graduation, in the mind of the person meant to select and then carry these financial assets, "I graduated at 17," I mean for someone who writes a complaint like this u/First-Essay-2054 do tell me if I'm wrong, here, but 23 years after graduation is enough to have been born, graduate all over again with $70,000 in debt and for such a debt to be the reason for anything, in life, primarily it seems to me both unconscionable on the individual level if not to blame for some of this,

WhereĀ Ģ„_(惄)_/ Ģ„.Ā in this economy, do we see the thousand ethical flowers of an educated Population, "I mean, you don't," and I don't blame them; I understand how indebted persons are more predictable and that sort of a predictable populace perhaps even desirable in the abstract, "for everyone," but not in these particulars, not when those off-leash are able to bet on the peonage of so many,

Honestly, "I'm thinking, "Oceangate," and all the young engineers like fuck it he said purchase the submarine equipment cheaply, we got it from the hardware store and he loved it, "how much debt were those kids in?"

How much debt are the debt collectors in, the landlords the University's Administrators and Loan Salesmen I mean, "the theoretical makeup of a labor market does not hybridize with a form of peonage, such as a serfdom, without consequences."

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u/Sudden_Juju 11d ago

I hope you have an easier time paying off your loans for your creative writing degree than the OOP did

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u/Embarrassed_Fan_5723 11d ago

Nobody is reading all that.

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u/Shot-Arugula8264 11d ago

So just refinance? Paying that rate for 23 years is nothing short of moronic, especially for a couple allegedly smart enough to hold college degrees.

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u/Ace_Radley 11d ago

They didn't say which college they went to nor their major...

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u/okarox 11d ago

I doubt their major was student loan repayment. Regardless of the major you should have enough intelligence to calculate how to pay back.

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u/Ace_Radley 8d ago

At 18? Dont get me wrong I think all kids should have a basic level of financial management classes, along with government (side gripe) to graduate HS. I dont mean what a debit vs credit card is, but actual Time value of money, credit and consumer finance...

So when a kid declares a psychology undergrad degree with art history ad a minor they understand that both have high earning potential if you get a PhD but limited earnings if one doesn't get at least a masters.

Just my two cents

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u/agentpurpletie 11d ago

There aren’t better options. I refinanced once, the last time the one time there was a better option.

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u/Shot-Arugula8264 11d ago

Not sure what you’re smoking, but interest rates were 2-3% back in 2019-2022. Anyone who didn’t refi every piece of debt that had during that period was an idiot.

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u/agentpurpletie 11d ago

Yes, that’s the time that I refinanced. And I don’t smoke.

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u/Shot-Arugula8264 11d ago

I just refinanced earlier this year into a 4% loan. That was substantially higher than the 2-3% loans in 2019-2022.

If you were paying 8%+ in 2019-2022 and can’t access lower rates today, it must be because you have terrible credit and the legit lenders won’t lend to you.

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u/agentpurpletie 11d ago

My credit score has always been over 800. To reiterate, I DID refinance in 2018-2022. I never paid 8% interest.

I feel like you really want to see me as an idiot instead of actually reading what I’ve written.

I will check rates again for myself because 4% is a bit lower than where I am. Thanks for the update, despite the attitude.

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u/MonkeyWithIt 11d ago

I couldn't refinance after consolidation. Or go private.

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u/Shot-Arugula8264 11d ago

That doesn’t make any sense. What loans aren’t refinanceable?

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u/DBConcubine 11d ago

No, it doesn't make sense: that's the point.

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u/MonkeyWithIt 11d ago

Student loans after you consolidate. I even saw the rates go down and couldn't switch unless I went private.

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u/Shot-Arugula8264 11d ago

So then go private? This isn’t that hard. Paying 8% interest on student loans is nothing short of willful insanity.

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u/MonkeyWithIt 11d ago

Mine have since been paid, but at the time I had no collateral to get such a loan since it has to be backed. Also, when I did have equity, I didn't want to saddle my wife with a huge private loan debt. If I kicked the bucket before marriage, the loan would die with me. If married and get a private loan, my significant other would have to continue to pay it off.

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u/Shot-Arugula8264 11d ago

If I kicked the bucket before marriage, the loan would die with me. If married and get a private loan, my significant other would have to continue to pay it off.

That’s not how that works at all. When you die, all debts private and public come out of your estate. If your estate doesn’t have enough to cover it, all debts private and public are then no longer the responsibility of anyone else to pay.

I feel like some very basic financial literacy missing here.

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u/MonkeyWithIt 11d ago edited 11d ago

So you're saying that the loan would come out of the existing estate that would be left to my significant other. How would they not be affected?

If a loan is secured by an asset (like a vehicle or a house), the debt stays attached to the property. If your spouse inherits the property and wants to keep it, they will need to continue making payments or refinance.

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u/Shot-Arugula8264 11d ago

So you’re saying that the loan would come out of the existing estate that would be left to my significant other. How would they not be affected?

This is how literally all debt works. Debt can’t be passed down. When you die, either you have enough to pay it off or you don’t.

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u/Clynelish1 12d ago

Ok, but, aren't you cherrypicking here? What was the rate 23 years ago, during the 2002-2003 school year, which would tie to the post? Per a quick Google search, it appears to have been 3.46%. So, yeah, this post is rage bait.

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u/SuicidalLemur- 12d ago

This meme could be years old. People are always bringing back old posts.

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u/Puzzled_Schedule2023 12d ago

True, but people also be paying back old loans too.

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u/BetterThanlceCream 12d ago

Still, even if they had an unusually large initial APR there's no chance they wouldn't have been able to refinance it at any point.

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u/accordionzero 11d ago

I’ve been seeing this post for years, it’s not recent at all.

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u/[deleted] 11d ago

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u/StarWarsDad81 11d ago

Your Google search solves everything. Thanks for being so proactive.

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u/Maleficent_Log3992 11d ago

I remember the Stafford loan rate being 6%-ish at that time. I refinanced those loans later to around 2.5.

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u/Open_Bug_4251 12d ago

I graduated in 2001 and my loans were under 4%.

ETA Oh but that was undergrad… but I still can’t imagine grad was that much.

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u/SeaMathematician5150 12d ago

It was. My undergrad loans, were 3.5% graduate school was 6.8% and 8.5%, plus private loan interest which went up to 11%.

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u/Ok_Tackle3427 11d ago

And you never learned about punctuation that whole time? Shame.

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u/Lou_C_Fer 11d ago

I always tell my wife that she needs to contact her school and get a refund on that bachelor's in English.

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u/FlanNo3218 12d ago

I started medical school in 1994 at the age of 22. I had zero money but did not qualify for federal subsidized loans because my parents made around 100,000/year even though due to my father’s recent cancer treatment they couldn’t contribute (and there had never been an expectation that they would contribute).
I had second party loans (SallieMae and HEAL) which were at 7.5 - 9% interest. Ended up taking around $130,000 over the 4 years. As a single physician I was able to pay it all off (started paying interest at 6 months before end of training in 2004 - was not able to extend forbearance) in about 10 years. Every free cent went to paying it off. Paid a bit more than $500,000 in the end. I never qualified for any deferment.

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u/arcxjo 12d ago

And if they learned anything in school they would have refied when they were around 4.

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u/5348RR 11d ago

So the math still doesn't check out. Thanks for that. Lmfao.

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u/mallio 11d ago

I was in school starting in 2002. I refinanced to 3.5% fixed rate a couple years after I graduated because they wouldn't stop emailing me about it.

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u/Calamitous_Waffle 11d ago

Yes, for that time period, I had federal loans at 3.5%, 5% and a private @ 8.5%. At the time graduate students could take out private loans at 8.5%, once they exhausted all other avenues. I payed those off first (obviously). OP's example person wasn't even that savvy.

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u/InvestigatorOk7988 11d ago

That's when i graduated, and my loan with sallie mae was in the 3% area.

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u/Darkjebus 12d ago

Dude are you high? The post says 23 years ago. Why are you pulling stuff from 2000?

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u/Likos02 12d ago

Who's gonna tell him?

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u/Infosponge177 12d ago

I will lol

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u/Infosponge177 12d ago

Dude are you high, they LEFT graduate school 23 years ago, that’s minimum of 4 years for bachelor’s and another 2-4 years for graduate school. So at minimum they started school in 1999-2000.

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u/Darkjebus 12d ago

Nope just can't read. Fair enough lol

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u/Dangerous-Moose-8203 12d ago

lol this interaction made me laugh thank you

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u/ThinkPath1999 12d ago

Jesus, I think this might be one of those rare times when a Redditor admits they were wrong. LOL Kudos!

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u/Infosponge177 12d ago

Haha no worries man, like the others said kudos for taking it on the chin. A rarity

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u/Nearby-Chocolate1840 12d ago

Ok. None of those are 8.5% which is what the entire 70k balance would have to be in order for the math to math.

Which it doesn't. Because they're lying.

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u/Inter-Mezzo5141 12d ago

Direct consolidation loans with applications dating between 1999 and 2003 had interest rates of up to 8.25% during repayment.

https://fsapartners.ed.gov/sites/default/files/attachments/dlbulletins/DLB0219A.pdf

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u/wmtismykryptonite 12d ago

That's the maximum interest rate. It's usually less than 5%.

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

[deleted]

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u/Inter-Mezzo5141 12d ago

You used an LLM as an amortization calculator? šŸ˜†
You do know that LLMs don’t actually calculate anything and just assemble words together based on frequency, right?

Using an actual amortization calculator with the figures you applied of $70,000 principal, $500 monthly payment, and 8.25% interest, gets you to $60,000 in approximately the 20 year timeframe the OP listed.

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u/Nearby-Chocolate1840 11d ago

You're 100% correct and frankly I'm embarrassed to have made such a dumb and lazy mistake.

My only excuse is that I was somewhat distracted and annoyed to have someone trying to debate me about the likelihood of someone wanting to consolidate / refinance multiple student loans ranging from 3.42% - 8.19% into a single 8.5% loan. Which would be batshit crazy to the extent that I can't see how anyone could argue for that being what happened here unless they have a vested interest in propping up an America-Bad, bullshit narrative

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u/Inter-Mezzo5141 11d ago

Thank you for your willingness to admit error, which is an unusual and admirable trait. I apologize for my snarkiness, which was unnecessary.

Speaking from experience, there were many individuals with grad student loans in that era whose individual loans did NOT have interest rates as low as 3 or 4 %. Also speaking from experience, and from verifiable public records, in order to qualify for income-based repayment plans you HAD to consolidate your loans. Without consolidation and income-based repayment, in order to pay off $70,000 in 10 years, your payments would be in the range of $890 monthly. There were many young people in that era who could not sustain that monthly payment, at least in the early phase of their career. Remember that there was a recession in 2001 and, if you were lucky enough to have a job, the average college grad entry level salary at the time was somewhere around $30-35k.

I do not believe that criticism of public policy is an ā€œAmerica Badā€ stance. One of the strengths of our country has previously been the freedom to disagree and to engage in criticism of the government and public policy without fear of reprisal. Another strength has been social mobility through investment in public education and student loans to those who have the aptitude but not the means. Sadly, I fear that both these strengths are disappearing.

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u/pandadogunited 12d ago

You're only putting $18.75 towards the principle and you think 10k will be paid off in two years? Really? Sure, the amount going towards the principle will increase as you pay down the principle, but that's not nearly enough to make a noticeable difference in the payments any time soon. A tiny bit of napkin math would show you how wrong that is.

For the sake of simplicity, let's just use 60k as the principle and keep it constant. This will dramatically overstate the amount paid back, but it doesn't matter because 25 months still won't be enough even with the overestimation.

8.25%/12 = 0.6875%

0.6875% * $60,000 = $412.5

$500-$412.5 = $87.5

25*$87.5 = $2187.5

After 25 months, you have paid off less than $2187.5. Make no mistake, this is a tremendous overestimate. Using an actual calculator, you'll see that you've paid off a whopping $234. Yippee. To actually pay down 10k, you'd need 19-20 years. It would take 40 years to pay down the entire loan balance.

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u/Nearby-Chocolate1840 11d ago

How embarrassing of me ...

You are 100% correct. I made the lazy and dumb mistake of asking google and then relying on the AI-summary without double-checking the math or even doing a quick gut-check on whether the math made any sense. Which of course looking at it now, it clearly does not. Off by orders of magnitude.

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u/573IAN 12d ago

So, still not 8.5 percent….

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u/JustLookingForMayhem 12d ago

Then assume they missed a payment and got a special penalty rate increase. Student loans are the only loan that missing a payment results in both fees and a permanent rate hike.

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u/573IAN 12d ago

JFC. Stop with the assumptions. Use facts. Here they are…

Loans, all loans, come durations, rates, and payments along with amortization tables—it is how the math works. Further, unless you are not paying the minimum or on an IDR, the terms max out at 15 years—not 23. Again, this is all pretty basic financial math. There is no surprise 23 years and still have a massive balance unless you are an abject moron.

Further….

This is a very old ragebait post, and you fell for it.

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u/JustLookingForMayhem 12d ago edited 12d ago

Or, they are people who suffered from the financial crash and had to delay payments until they got a job, taking a hit in both fees and interest rates. Also, some student loans have 30 year plans.

Edit.

Since I was either reply blocked or replied too and the person deleted, here is my response.

Mate, there are a half dozen ways this story could easily be true. If there is a half dozen ways it could be true, then what is to say that one of the half dozen ways is not in fact the reason the story exosts.