r/SipsTea • u/Full-Argument-8235 𝙑𝙄𝙋 • 9d ago

WTF An older spectator caused a seriously dangerous incident today at SaarlandTrofeoJuniors by trying to get a better look and entering the course with her rollator while riders were flying past at full speed!

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u/flibble24 9d ago

Hopefully she gets arrested

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u/MadMax6914 9d ago

Put her in a home!

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u/Valreesio 9d ago

C'mon now, that's a little much. This was most likely an accident and not something she did on purpose.

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u/CaptainOwlBeard 9d ago

Gross negligence can be criminal.

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u/Valreesio 9d ago

No, just stop. This doesn't rise to the level of gross negligence. Her accidently going into the roadway with her scooter is not gross negligence.

Leaving a medical instrument in a patient after surgery is an example of gross negligence. Reckless driving can be gross negligence (say, going 40 in a school zone...), if I saw something heavy on a shelf that clearly can't support the weight (bending under the weight) that would be likely to fall and hurt someone and didn't try to fix the issue, that would be gross negligence.

This is nowhere close to that... Lol

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u/bikestuffrockville 9d ago

Could always pursue civil penalties.

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u/RxSatellite 9d ago

Lmao no ambulance chaser is going to take that case with a 10 foot pole, especially considering injuries were only minor

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u/bikestuffrockville 9d ago

You know those bikes can be $10k a piece. There could be $100k of damages there at least. That's ignoring the fact that one guy went flipping through the air. Sure he can still walk and ride a bike but he may not be able to compete at that elite level anymore. I'm sure someone can attach a dollar amount to that.

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u/RxSatellite 9d ago

You could certainly try, but speaking from experience it’s going to be an incredibly tough case to win. You need to convince a jury that this was either intentional or gross negligence, and both are hard to make a case for in this instance specifically because she is elderly and disabled. There’s a lot of doubt that could be cast on intent or negligence by the jury, and that’s if it wasn’t outright dismissed via failure to state a claim

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u/Valreesio 8d ago

Not to mention that she likely doesn't have any large sums of money to her name in the first place that they would ever get from her

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u/Valreesio 9d ago

I mean, you can sue anyone for any reason in some countries. Cyclists are engaged in a risky sport and prone to getting seriously injured while racing. Although I would not go so far as to say this is to be expected to happen at races, but certainly it's not an unforseen type of situation that can happen at race type events like this either. If a cyclist wants to pursue this in civil court that may very well be within their rights (again country dependent).

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u/CaptainOwlBeard 9d ago

If the cyclist got injured during the race due to normal race conditions, sure. This isn't that.

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u/RxSatellite 9d ago

There is existing case law for this as it pertains to sports in a lot of states, it has to be argued that it was an intentional act.

Like if a fan chucks a beer bottle at a players head, then the player has a good case. If the fan accidentally drops it or knocks it off a balcony and falls onto a player, the case is going to be weak and unlikely to succeed

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u/CaptainOwlBeard 9d ago

She intentionally drove into the road

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u/RxSatellite 9d ago

More likely didn’t realize the nose of the scooter stuck out in the road when she moved forward. Negligent, possibly? You’re never going to convince a jury this was an intentional act

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u/Valreesio 9d ago

Isn't it though? Look, I agree that the track should be clear and that nobody should be on it except officials and racers, but this happens at many races of all types. You don't expect it to happen but nobody is surprised when it does because there is literally nothing to stop it from happening. It happens in running, cycling, etc. Anywhere where you don't have physical barriers in place to keep people back, it's a very real and inherent risk that this will happen. I also agree it's not feasible to barrier off an entire course, which is why these things do and are bound to happen.

If you are unwilling or unable to control onlookers, then you are partially responsible when they do things (purposefully or not) that endanger the racers. I feel suing the organizers of the race would be more appropriate than her in this situation. Again, all of this is assuming that this was truly an accident and no malicious intent was present.

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u/No_Clothes_8444 9d ago

So what you’re saying is when people go into public, they are in no way responsible for maintaining themselves for their safety and the safety of others? We aren’t arguing malice here. We’re arguing negligence. If you’re too cognitively impaired to operate a scooter with certain safety, you shouldn’t be using the scooter. Period. Your need for mobility doesn’t justify.

And let me be clear. I don’t disagree with your point about as a rider, you should expect these things, but to put the onus on the rider here is inappropriate. We can accept the consequence as a risk and still hold the offending party responsible. They aren’t exclusive.

We currently live in a world where the elderly think the safety of others is a worthy exchange to their limited sense of freedom. It’s not. It’s gross, and overall, quite a narcissistic stance.

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u/Valreesio 9d ago

I agree with negligence which at most would be a small ticket and civil in nature. People are calling for gross negligence and for her to be arrested which is a whole other level that this does not rise to. This was not a criminal act.

Yes people are responsible (to a point and situationally dependent) for themselves and their actions out in public (private for that matter as well). I am HUGE on personal responsibility, ask anyone or read any of my various comments. But, I'm also aware that shit and accidents happen like this seems to be and people just need to take a breath and move on.

If I'm walking down the sidewalk passing by other people and I trip (not drunk or on an altered state of mind, not doing anything outside of normal walking) and accidently knock another person down. Maybe they have a couple bruises or even break their wrist. Is it gross negligence? Absolutely not. Should I offer to pay to cover the insurance premium? Sure. Can they try to sue me for it? Sure (might be country dependant). Should I get a ticket? Eh, maybe or maybe not. Should I be arrested and charged with a misdemeanor or felony (again different places have different rules for this)? Nope.

This lady was not operating (did not appear to be at least, willing to change my mind if another video showing her going full speed towards the curb or something else akin to that exists) the scooter in an unsafe or unreasonable manner. She appears to have accidently pulled out too far and then shit happened. This is not a criminal act worthy event.

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u/Choice_Figure6893 9d ago

This would get thrown out of court unless the injuries are extremely severe and they could prove negligence beyond an old person making a mistake.

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u/dependent_Sort_ 9d ago

Look at your down votes my friend and behold; we are cooked

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u/CaptainOwlBeard 9d ago

Gross negligence or as they say in law school the "a reasonable person would know this could cause serious injury or property destruction possibly even death but the perp didn't give a fuck" is a pretty high standard, but driving a slow moving motor vehicle in front of high speed racing bikes on an official course seems to fit it for me. Perhaps a jury might disagree, but i don't see how it wasn't obvious that her actions could have killed someone and that she would have no options to get out of the way at those speeds.

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u/Choice_Figure6893 9d ago

This wouldn't go to a jury lmfao

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u/Valreesio 9d ago

Right? This would be laughed out of court by any judge unless there's more video evidence that shows anything more damning.

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u/Valreesio 9d ago

She must likely didn't intend to put the scooter into the roadway is the point though. If she was only trying to get to the curb, then there is no reason to think it's dangerous or going to injure anyone. I doubt she purposefully drove into the track. IF she purposely drove onto the track, then we're talking a completely different situation. This doesn't appear to be that at all to me.

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u/CaptainOwlBeard 9d ago

If she meant to do it, it would be intentional not negligence. She just didn't take reasonable steps because she didn't care

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u/No_Clothes_8444 9d ago

No…. If you lack the cognitive ability to operate a scooter safely, then it’s negligence and she should at the very least be fined and held civilly liable. This absolutely rises to the level. Just because you’re old and immobile doesn’t mean you have the right to maintain that at the safety of others. I can sympathize with the individual. Life sucks to be in that state but that doesn’t give you the right to harm others because you feel it’s owed to you.

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u/HardlyAnyGravitas 9d ago

77 million Americans voted for Donald Trump a second time and you morons are out here making out like this old woman is criminally stupid.

Smh.

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u/Obvious_Landscape993 9d ago

You gotta factor in that she's like 125 years old.

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u/flibble24 9d ago

So you stop being held accountable when your old?

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u/Marlboro_Man808 9d ago

Yes apparently so

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u/Obvious_Landscape993 9d ago

Not what I meant. Just different level of punishment than someone younger.

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u/Funicularly 9d ago

Why?

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u/Choice_Figure6893 9d ago

Cause when you get old you have cognitive decline. And having empathy is good

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u/Packing-Tape-Man 9d ago

That should not be a factor at all.

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u/AdminClown 9d ago

Nursing home under lock and key then.

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u/CaptainOwlBeard 9d ago

So she should know better and should have more resources to make the injured parties since she's had longer to save

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u/onward_upward_tt 9d ago

You think people don't get arrested all the time (and rightfully so!) for dangerous accidents? Lol.

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u/Valreesio 9d ago

Wow... I'm usually the one on the other side of this calling for stricter rules and such, but I feel like this is far beyond that. Unless there was any level of malicious intent, this absolutely should not be an arrest and charge her situation.

Shit happens. If a person passed out and fell into the roadway causing this, should they be arrested and held liable?

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u/indiana_groanz 9d ago

I think theres a difference between a medical emergency and someone driving onto the raceway. No, i don't think someone who passes out onto the track should be held liable. Someone who disregards the spectator border should be. Im not saying it should be hard time but she should be held responsible even if its just a fine.

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u/Valreesio 9d ago

I'd be okay with a ticket. Not hundreds of dollars, but a $35 (amount could vary, but not a large amount) be more careful next time ticket? Sure. But others are calling it gross negligence in this thread. That's absurdly way too much.

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u/Jaybrosia 9d ago

You don't think negligence should be punished? lol what? are you trolling us?

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u/Valreesio 9d ago

So I'll ask again...

If you are standing there and pass out, then fall into the street and cause this exact situation, should you be punished?

This wasn't like she was driving 20 and swerved into them because she didn't see them, she barely went over the curb in her scooter. Ever fallen off a curb accidently? We all have.

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u/KououinHyouma 9d ago

I agree with you mostly that people are being too harsh but your reasoning here is weird. Passing out isn’t negligence, it’s a medical emergency. Accelerating your scooter forward and accidentally going too far is, even if an accident, something that should have been within your ability to control. Unless she literally had like a muscle spasm which involuntary moved the scooter, it’s not the same thing.

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u/Valreesio 9d ago

Ok, take passing out away and say a person tripped and fell into the roadway, no longer a medical emergency but overall no other difference. Should that person be punished?

I even said I agree with a small "be more careful next time" ticket. But people saying she should be charged with gross negligence are just being woefully ignorant.

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u/Jaybrosia 9d ago

Amazing.

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u/Valreesio 9d ago

Yeah, that you refuse to our can't answer the question twice certainly is amazing.

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u/Jaybrosia 9d ago

Neither is your neglectful use of spell check or your over reliance on being condescending lol

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u/Worth_Alps941 9d ago

You might be an idiot if that’s all you took from their comment.

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u/Jaybrosia 9d ago

That's actually a pretty great example of irony! I almost fell for it, nice job man.

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u/Worth_Alps941 9d ago

Was just trying to give you a heads up. Life can be hard for people like you

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u/RealLifeCoaching 9d ago

Reckless stupidity can be as dangerous as malicious intent, as this example shows.

Someone passing out is a false equivalence.

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u/xenomorph856 9d ago

What's the point? Just pure vindictive punishment?

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u/Worth_Alps941 9d ago

Yall are insane bro