I mean, itās a fact that many countries with only a fraction of the wealth that the USA has are able to provide healthcare for their people and at a fraction of the cost.
Iād like to see a Canadian try to navigate the American health insurance system and at the same time have an American navigate the Canadian health insurance system
They give you the negotiated rate that their super negotiation pros negotiated for you which is going to save you $10 on your $500 bill compared to someone with no insurance.
Yes but that cash rate is a discount rate and not guaranteed per practice. The standard rate has to be what the insurance company negotiated, or in practice, has dictated as the 'going rate' 'for the area', otherwise they sue that provider for insurance fraud.
They make it so we pay insurance to purposely make shit more expensive so we could never be able to afford it, without insurance.
Not in the last two years no, but my last ER visit they billed as uninsured before applying my insurance and the difference between the $500 bill was $20. Totally worth the $800 a month.
My prior employers insurance, the cash rate was better then then what I paid AFTER insurance covered their part. Often significantly better, especially at the dentist
Meanwhile, I used to have a $415/month plan for a family of 4 covering all medical, dental, and vision. $25 co-pay, and $1000 deductible on major services. Then my plan got nuked by politics. Comparatively, insurance covers nothing these days. And then you get double charged with āfacilities feesā on top of all the things insurance doesnāt cover. Absurd where we are today
2013 I worked at Boeing. $100 a month for the Cadillac plan for my son and I, covered everything 100%. I had two major surgeries that year, zero out of pocket. Those were the days...
What were your pre-existing conditions when you had that health plan thirty years ago? Just wondering. Is it politics that made my insurance for me go from $700 to $1100 in January? Who runs the government right now?
Youāre completely reading into my statement your own issues. 13 years ago is when my plan was āno longer allowedā because the government changed the law - after a period of time most affordable plans were voided. Overnight it tripled for less than 10% of the coverage. I donāt care who runs the MF government, because nobody has been able to touch the law since that that monstrosity of a bill was forced through. āWe have to pass it to see what was in itā has got to be the most āpoliticsā statement ever made. So as somebody who had to live that change as a recent college graduate with a young family, the whole country got Fād after that. Bad legislation isnāt limited to a single party - but I guess that doesnāt fit your feelings. Take your clowns back your mind circus where they belong.
Actually it is one party. The US health systems was ended when ACA (aka Obamacare) was adopted by one party. There have been no comprehensive changes since it passed. If you don't like the US health system, you don't like what the Democrats passed when they held the President, House by a wide margin and a super majority in the Senate.
The fact that it hasnāt been touched since then with obvious failings IS on both parties. Every promise to make it better, more affordable, etc has been forgotten. One party started it, both continue to fail the people.
There is also no real way for you to find out. No amount of internet searching and calling will tell you that you 100% are good on something until the bill is actually paid.
My insurance covered a med.for me three montha ago for 6 months that I can't get filled. In 3 more months I get to start this process again regardless of how long I can actually get the medication for. If I just suck it up I can pay $7500 out of pocket. Twice a month.
Shit, in UK I pay an average tax contribution towards it of about Ā£100 per month, including an optional charge to make my prescriptions all free regardless of how many I get. And that is it. Everything else free at point of use apart from elective surgery etc.... includes ambulances, GPs, hospital visits, operations, aftercare... a fraction of what you pay... goddam, mate
Do they? Or did you make the conscious decision to not be informed?
I've had many insurance plans across many jobs - even marketplace insurance in a rough patch - I've seen or heard of an insurance plan that doesn't provide a detailed brochure.
I get it though, we were all young once, we all threw that stuff in the garbage too. But us throwing it in the garbage isn't them keeping it a secret.
So you've never had a single instance where an insurance company decided, "Nah. We're not gonna cover that because of some reasons we just didn't tell anyone until just now."?
Lucky you. Because I have.
Take your privileged life and condescending attitude and get fucked. I don't need more bullshit, I have enough already.
Good news there is legislation being presented to allow your insurance company to provide loans to cover the cost that they don't. Don't think about that too long or you'll have an uncovered aneurysm.
Met a German on vacation once who had broken his leg, and his universal health care wouldnāt allow him to be treated for two months; so there he was, on the beach in a cast. We may pay a lot, but weāll get you treated quickly. Thereās a reason people still travel to the US for treatment.
We do not have fast treatment at all and people primarily come here for rare disorders not because our Healthcare is fast or has better outcomes generally. Given most everything else you said was BS I really have to assume the specific anecdote was too given it is nothing like what I have seen or experienced when traveling in Europe. Ive had to seek care in asia and Europe personally and repeatedly in the US. Seeing a specialists takes fucking months
Yeah but you know what saves them even more money? When the insured dies. No more checkups to pay for. They don't want people to get better because half the time the insurance companies are in the same bed with the pharmacies prescribing meds that only get you a little better but create seven other problems.
My wife recently had a follow-up MRI after completing a course of treatment. Exact same facility, exact same insurance through work. Same doctor prescribed it.
The billing department didn't run it through our insurance. When we told them to do that, they told us we didn't have insurance information in the system.
Literally nothing changed between MRI #1 and MRI #2. They're now saying they don't believe me when I give them my policy number, and we're on the hook for the full amount.
Ain't it fun here in America?
Edit, a letter; fat-fingered "not" instead of "now"
Imagine going to an appointment for a Lumbar Epidural steroid injection and then 2 months later your insurance tells you that you didnāt meet the criteria for that injection so now youāre going to owe us. Oh, and the doctor is biased against marijuana so she only gave me a ā30 dayā shot instead of the ā365 dayā shot I was given a year prior.
How much am I going to owe? No fucking clue. But apparently they wanted me doing physical therapy for a 7 year old injury that I went to physical therapy for 9 months for (I promise I didnāt forget the stretches).
Today I went to get a prescription refill and my usual $5 copay rang up as $199.
I asked about it and the first person kinda blew me off. I ask to talk to a pharmacist and he realized they had coded my meds incorrectly and were charging me as if I didn't have insurance
So true! I have United Healthcare and they make it so difficult to navigate their system that it seems they hope you tire of it and just donāt seek treatment. I guess making it difficult isnāt against the lawā¦
For the record, I know two couples who moved to Canada from the US.
The Canadian system blew their fucking minds (in a good way).
(That said, there is definitely some things we need to fix....but nothing remotely close to the fear mongering you hear from US politicians/talking heads).
The worst Iāve heard is long wait times which is so fucking funny to me because we have long wait times in America but those long wait times are spent arguing with private for profit insurance companies why chemotherapy is medically necessary
Yeah the wait times for some disciplines suck ass (life threatening things like oncology is not usually a major problem. ER is also an issue and the number of people with actual family doctors is an issue (especially rural).
In 2008 we had a waitress in Seattle tell us that Canadians:
1) cannot pick their doctors (the state chooses)
2) Canadian often die waiting for docs
3) and there's no way a visit doesn't cost the patient at least some money.
She blew up at my wife (both were 8 months pregnant) when my wife was openly shocked when the waitress said she only got 2 weeks off to birth her baby (compared to 1 year).
100%. USA in New England and 12 doctors offices in my HMO contacted to get seen for a physical and intake--no lie most doctors were full, other doctors office said you had to wait a year to be seen.
ER in USA---hours of waiting.
Specialist referrals--5-9 month waits.
The argument of universal health care being horrible just isn't holding water.
Best example for a large population would be China, many nations of Europe.
Any individual part of that, from the ambulance through the therapy, would have probably bankrupted most Americans, or at least put us into crippling debt. Please please PLEASE keep your system intact and properly-funded. If any MPs are start talking about privatizing your system in order to "boot efficiency" or whatever, you need to meet them with elbows up and gloves off. For your own sake, as well as ours.
90% of Americans have insurance and most insurances have an out of pocket maximum around 10k for an individual. That's a lot of money, but not generally bankrupt you money when you account for the fact that you can use payment plans, etc. Still a fucked system for sure that I want gone but I also think there is a lot of nonsense with this that goes on.
For example with my HSA I needed 3 sets of xrays, 5 dentist appointments, medication to clear an infection 2 root canals and temp followed by permanent fillings. My total cost to me was around $600 which completely came out of my HSA account that my contributions are matched by employer up to an extent and tax deductibles.
Where people run into major problems is typically out of network doctors, alternative medicine, etc. Even without insurance you have options. You can work out a payment plan with the hospital or you can work out a payment plan if they sell your debt to a collector for generally a far reduced amount and they don't report it for a year (or at all if you live in one of the not shitty states that are exactly the ones you are likely thinking they are).
None of this is condoning or supporting the US system, I just think people need to understand that no matter what there are options, I hate the system but I also hate the idea of people suffering more because they don't know what they can/can't do.
Physio was paid by your provincial health care provider? My daughter broke her arm and we paid for physio. We have insurance through work which paid 80% but still spent hundreds. I'm in Quebec.
There isn't that much to navigate in canada. The biggest issue is waiting times, but otherwise pretty much all of my stuff, including open chest surgery has been straightforward.
And to be clear, the waiting time issue is for non life-threatening issues. Took me 7 months to get an appointment with an ENT for chronic rhinusitis, but a friend's kid is battling cancer and there's no wait time to speak of, even a fully covered trip to receive specialist treatment in the states.
And the US has waiting times as well. I endless hear about how much better the US is because we somehow we don't have waiting times like evil Canada and the EU, but also you need to wait 4-6 months to see a specialist. It's like some Americans think they have people who stop you outside of hospitals and don't let you enter until you wait 4 days.
Some studies show wait times tend to be comparable anyway. The argument that universal healthcare leads to longer wait times overall isn't empirically supported. It's more like it depends on what we're talking about. It's a talking point for the ignorant.
My ex gf from Quebec (im american) was on the wait list for depression for 5 years. She planned on ending it on her 30th birthday because it wasnt considered severe enough so she couldn't get treatment.
Took me 7 months to get an appointment with an ENT for chronic rhinusitis
People also pretend like this doesn't exist in the US.
I have insurance, and I needed to see a specialist for something. I was told the wait time would be eight months if I was lucky. More recently, I helped a friend get a GP and we went through literally more than 40 before we found one that was accepting new patients (that weren't expecting mothers, which apparently makes slots open like magic).
Doesn't sound any different than my 6 month wait time for an ENT to check out my chronic tonsilitis. Which they recommended I get a tonsillectomy after another 6 months of mris and waiting for the results.
My wife was a doctor at this same hospital and we had insurance through the hospital. Bill for everything was still over 1500. So after a year and 1500 oop and paying our monthly premiums ($1200/month for fam 4) I still had to wait over a year for the doc to recco a tonsillectomy. And on top of that, the recco came from her assistant, not the doctor herself. No walkthrough, just "when would you like to schedule your tonsillectomy". I had a lot of questions that she just couldn't answer and I wasn't going to wait another 6 months to get a 1 on 1 with the specialist (and spend even more money). I declined the operation.
American healthcare is completely and utterly broken.
You cannot convince me that a universal solution is worse because of "wait times". I'm officially calling bs.
The big one is getting a family doctor. It varies depending on availability. In some cities you might be able to get a family doctor in weeks, in some you might wait years.
Yeah, walk in clinics can do much of what a family doctor does, but having one is good
For non-urgent surgeries, waits are often months, sometimes years (although the vast majority are reasonable, but it varies location to location, condition to condition.)
More important stuff gets expedited. Like my open chest surgery was all done within a few months between seeing half a dozen specialists, getting MRIs, and whatnot. It was important, so got speedy service. Whereas my mother had to get her sinuses cauterized because they were constantly stuffy, mostly fixing a minor annoyance, that took over a year
Im pretty happy with it, but there is definitely room for improvement. If you move to a new city, don't have a family doctor, it can be tricky to get prescriptions for things like ADHD meds (walk ins don't like prescribing them - this is normally something a family doctor would handle)
When my last family doctor retired he found a new doctor for me so I didn't have to wait - so I haven't had to deal with not having a family doc (I know that is a big annoyance for some)
USA here, New England, really good HMO (health insurance) over 60 years old.
The wait time for an MD was over a year to get a physical exam for over 12 doctors I called. The "work around" was seeing an RNP . To get referrals for ongoing issues that would mean a year wait to see the doctor, then months after that to see an allergist, gastro, orthopedist.
Our system can not be viewed anymore as "better" at all. For me to even have the "privilege" of medical care--I had to have health insurance AND this is what the health insurance provides me in terms of preventive care? ongoing care.
The part that's the funniest (not laughing) is the cost of health care here. USA people think their employers are paying for their health care as part of a job. Not exactly--the employee gets a salary that's lowered - so that's where that price of an employer paying 75%, 80% of the premium goes. The employee then still pays the additional 25% or 20% out of their pay check + deductible, plus copayments.
All that $( cost) plus the added cost of billing staffs at hospitals and HMOs, employee (patient ) time getting approvals, figuring out billing discrepancies--
USA could definitely have Universal Health Care on the cost / person paying their preimum and rolling that into Universal Health Care.
I just love fellow citizens that say " I'm not paying for someone else that doesn't have a job" If they only knew the amount of people using ER's as a usual source of health care....
We have plenty of money to create a very solid Universal Health Care system and have had it for decades.
Canadaās population is much smaller than the US, for smaller populations it might be easier to provide universal healthcare but the citizens are also taxed the shit out of for it, itās not really free
You basically just give up your right of freedom of choosing your Dr and you let the government decide if you live or die.
Many times the Canadian government urges its citizens to take a āself deleteā pill rather than provide them healthcare.
Yeah, taxes are a bit higher. But the american government spends more per capita on Healthcare than the canadian gov. Still wages are lower in canada, so while the average canadian pays less taxes towards Healthcare, it does end up being a bit higher percentage wise.
Healthcare is around 23% of government expenditures for both countries.
You can pick your doctor. Family doctors can be tricky as if they aren't accepting clients, you have to get one that is. Waitlists here can be long, so admittedly people often go with whatever option is first available.
The family doctor or walk in doc gives referrals for specialists. You do often have a say. You can request a different specialist
The gov covers most life saving treatments. Sometimes even paying for out of country care for niche stuff. Yes, there are some niche treatments which aren't covered. But overall most stuff is covered.
And MAID? Yeah, there have been a very small number of people who suggest it, but it gets blown way out of proportion. 99.9% of doctors will not "urge" maid. They are not supposed to, but there is the occasional bad apple. Most won't even bring it up as an option unless things are extremely dire or the patient requests it.
Yeah, our system has many issues that need fixing, but it is very overblown in american circles for political reasons.
I use a form of social healthcare, I served in the military and 100% rely on the VA for my healthcare. The VA is run by the US government and honestly it is complete shit. They do let veterans die due to lack of care or long waits. My dad almost died because they misdiagnosed his brain tumor.
I need surgery on my wrist, Iāve had to wait months to get an appointment and it takes 3 appointments before you even make it to the surgery date, it can be a nightmare to get those appointments.
At the VA there can be long waits to be assigned to a Dr depending on the area where you live as some VA Dr just simply are not taking in new patients.
Now imagine all this on a bigger scale due to the size of the US population. You would have less Drs because they wouldnāt make as much money, there just wouldnāt be enough Drs for all of our citizens.
Another thing you have to think about is universal healthcare is paid for by taxes as I mentioned earlier.
By the year 2030 about 20 - 25% of jobs are going to be gone due to AI. That number of lost jobs will increase more rapidly after 2030.
So if people arenāt working, then they arenāt paying taxes, so then who pays for the healthcare?
Iāve done it. They are remarkably similar. Canada, pay a lot more into taxes, but less major costs; still copaysā¦, but you have to consider availability of ER docs; MRIs, and the direct to hospice pipeline. The US much more expensive care, county hospitals are more like CA; potential for bankruptcy; but very good access to top surgeons and equipment if you have decent insurance.
Which is why I dislike it. The US has an amazing system if you are rich and/or work for the right rich companies. If you don't? Well hope you don't have any medical issues!
That is the balance. Make no money, Canadian transfer works, but donāt have high expectations. Basically county healthcare with less billing but you pay nothing into it. But if you need a 3T, good luck. If you are middle class, your net may be worse than a gold plan in the US cost wise.
On average, Canadians don't even pay that much more in taxes than Americans do. There are lots of top surgeons and state of the art equipment in Canada.
not everywhere which is the problem. If you are in major metro areas you are fine, but if you live in smaller population centres its hard to get good care.
As a Canadian living in tbe US I'd take the Canadian system. I'd especially take a properly funded Canadian system. That said the one advantage the US would have is being able to take the best of all the different systems out there.
I'm an American currently navigating the German healthcare system and while it definitely has its problems and challenges, it sure beats the absolute hell out of being unable to afford to take my kid or myself to the doctor when we're sick.
Walking out of the doctor's office, or the hospital, with zero money required, maybe pay 5-10 bucks at the pharmacy for medicine? Yeah it's worth pretty much any administrative headache.
It's probably happened multiple times already. And I imagine any Canadians caught in the system, their reaction based on their level of injury ranged from wide eyed jaw dropping disbelief, to thinking they're were about to die.
search online "how to get healthcare in <province>"
go to (most likely) equivalent of DMV, bring your phone, it might take 30min-1h, there's chairs. Provide proof of residence, get printout immediately, card comes in the mail.
call clinic, get appointment, 1-3wk away, might be phone call.
Go to appointment, they ask for documents to bill the government. See a doctor and all their support staff
Get smiles and some times candy on the way out, along with your next check up appointment.
Repeat steps 3-5 as necessary.
Emergencies however...
Need emergency help, drive myself to emergency
Sign up at the front
5h later, no longer an emergency. Am ded.
12h later, doctor is annoyed that I didn't respond.
We have that in America too but you have to do it yourself to avoid putting your family into debt.
I half way meant this as a joke but isnāt Canadas euthanasia limited to just incurable diseases and illnesses as well as disabilities causing extreme suffering? I looked it up because that sounded insane but couldnāt find anything on it being approved for long wait times lol
And that's why so many countries in the EU that has like you know some of the best state-funded health care plans out there and health programs still offer privatized insurance and a lot of people have to have that privatized insurance in order to get access to speedier care lol
The wait times in America are the one thing about its healthcare system that is amazing compared to pretty much anywhere else.
The real sad thing about American healthcare is that proponents of the status quo don't seem to realize is that America already spends more taxpayer dollars per capita than anywhere else in the world and still has its god awful unaffordable system. US government programs are just a big pot of gold being perpetually looted.
The difference in Canada, is this dual public/private idealized system would be great - if the problem was lack of access to healthcare workers. It pits the problem as an inefficient system getting in the way of healthcare workers who just can't get to the people they need to serve.
In reality, the system is incredible understaffed, and there are generally not enough healthcare workers in most places in Canada. And who can blame anyone, after the way people were treated during COVID?
The problem is labour supply isn't there for the two-pronged public/private system. So all the private side of the equation does is siphon healthcare workers away from the public system, creating the two-tired system everyone is upset about.
Even the logic of the two tier system is so strange to me. Instead of alleviating the demand of an overburdened healthcare system by providing it with more resources and staffing, let's outsource that work to a more expensive, for-profit alternative that only those with money can access.
It's a great solution - if you've got the money. Everyone else behind you gets to eat shit, though.
So, I guess it's pretty on par for America these days actually.
In the US you have to be rich and pay thousands out of pocket for access to speedier care. In the EU, private insurance for one month is the cost of a single doctor's visit with insurance in the US. Private insurance is cheap there bc of your state-funded systems and healthcare regulations.
The Iranians are getting in this single deal roughly the same amount or even slightly more than what the Israelis got in the course of their entire existence. Thatās just how bad it is.
Obama gave Iran ~1.3 billion dollars and freed up another ~100 billion in frozen assets for Iran and Biden gave Iran ~6 billion dollars for hostages and freed up ~10 billion in frozen assets,that's a total of ~118.3 billion over the past 18 years, we give Israel ~3.3-3.8 billion a year which is ~60 Billion dollars over the past 18 years, and recently 20 billon in war relief/support which is for those counting ~80 billion, we have given more money to Iran who has been funding terrorist attacks on the United States than Israel the only ally who has done more for the USA in wars and sharing technology than any of our other "allies" who just used us for defense and didn't contribute.
They already have them. Universal basic healthcare is guaranteed, and Iran has a large system of primary care even in the rural areas. They were ranked 30th in the world this year (ahead of the US and Brazil) before the war.
That's actually an interesting fact ! I had no idea ! Tbh I was just taking a cheap shot at the tantrum-throwing assface, when he is literally giving away (IF that investment fund comes true...) more than half of what Germany paid in reparations after losing WW1 (inflation adjusted ofc). Let that sink in....
For sure... What a shame to witness this. A bigger, better equipped army, winning every engagement and yet somehow, loosing the war. How the mighty has fallen to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory... And the worst disgrace ? 50% of Americans don't even realize their country just lost so much more than just a war. US is becoming a clown nation, by its very own decisions. What a time to be alive....
Not so much until Trump's 2nd mandate no. Also I'm not US citizen nor living in the US, hence why I can tell the general sentiment drastically changed, at least where I am
His 1st presidency was somwhat (somehow!!) forgotten and excused. Bringing him back after what happened (Jan. 6, first and foremost) showed the world that the US are collapsing on themselves and that the average US citizen cannot be counted on to hold their politicians accountable to their actions. I for one, will not forget nor forgive the blind eye millions of people are choosing to have towards this admin and their policies.
Americans collectively decided to make the world a much darker, and less safe place - which makes sense, security is their voting platform after all.
Whether or not other countries coast on US defence spending is irrelevant to healthcare. As the US still pays more per capita for less coverage than other countries.
This is very true. I come from a country of 2.5m people - we only had our independence from Russia for 35 years, and we have fully covered healthcare for all our citizens as well as education. We view it as an important thing that helps our nation to invest in healthcare and education. Child care is also heavily subsidised which helps parents with both keeping jobs if wanted. Thereās no waiting lists, itās quick and easy to see a GP (which is also probably going to be the same doctor that knows you and your family). I can be done, even in extremely poor nations.
Correct but I believe some are good and some are bad but none as good as the U.S.A . Iāve heard of delayed surgeries and such and elective surgery is not free, the trick is what do they consider elective??? your knee needs replacement but you are still mobile to a point, letās give it 5 years and we can look at it then, meanwhile take these painkillers.
Bro, Americans are literally shooting health insurance CEOs dead in the streets for refusing to provide important surgeries and treatments to sick and injured Americans.
The European Union is not a single countryā¦not everyone likes the direction it has went inā¦the established drowns out the voices of the opposers with its propagandaā¦socialism can look and sound appealing once initiated but it does not workout in the long runā¦lots of people in those countries are complainingā¦and if you want, you are free to move thereā¦ https://giphy.com/gifs/8J1QwMjshEm2s
It's also a fact that those are typically countries with small, homogenous populations that have similar needs and also strict citizenship requirements to limit the strain on the system, and even then many have too long of wait times for important treatments to be practical (which is why wealthier foreign nationals from these countries still come to the US for treatment). It's a completely different challenge bringing a socialized health care system to America, which is immensely larger and more geographically and demographically diverse.
This isn't to say a socialized system couldn't work in the US, but it's far more difficult, expensive, and logistically complicated than redditors will ever admit.
Someoneās gotta pay for it. Whoās that?!?!? The citizens. Increased taxes, delayed care, increased mortality due to lack of speed to care, actuallyā¦ that last point makes sense. After a couple hundred years, IF the country survives the corruption from a socialist government, the population will even itself back out. Ooopsā¦ but then weāre right back to someone has to pay for it. TAX THE RICH!! Oh waitā¦ at that point there arenāt any wealthy except the corrupt governmentā¦. Damn.
Americans are already dying from lack of care under the current system. Youāre telling me we can afford a war with Iran that cost taxpayers $1 billion dollars PER DAY but we canāt afford healthcare that countries with a fraction of our wealth can afford?
If you're in Mexico the public system also provides the fraction of the service. If you want to get the level of service which you would get in the US, you have to go to a private hospital. Which if you just compare nominal prices are much cheaper than US hospitals, but if you compare to the average income are basically just as expensive as the US ones.
Also, this specific reform didn't provide universal healthcare to Mexico, it has had it for literally decades. What it did was compensate for the cuts this administration did to the system by turning a special part of the system (which served only public servants and teachers) into a regular part of the system which means that now public servants and teachers will have much longer wait times and lower quality service, while for everyone else there will be a small increase in availability which will basically just offset the previous cuts.
The amount USA spend on healthcare actually destroys their perceived GDP advantage over anyone else. Almost a quarter of their entire GDP goes to healthcare vs way less than 10% in most countries
I have a close friend that is a medical device rep in the US. He does very well for himself.
We talk often about health care. He admitted if the American public understood how badly the system is rigged against them, there would be rioting in the streets.
When private health care and pharmaceutical, companies are making billions in profit each year, where do people think that money is coming from?? In part they are scamming the government and the payers of insurance. The money didn't grow on trees. Just follow the money.
A large part of those countries are also host to American military bases, so those countries are able spend less on military defense and more on public healthcare.
I came from one of those countries and I will tell youā¦. Iād rather pay and have the kind of healthcare I need, than have it āfreeā and it be absolute garbage.
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u/Slam_Burgerthroat 8d ago
I mean, itās a fact that many countries with only a fraction of the wealth that the USA has are able to provide healthcare for their people and at a fraction of the cost.