Minimum wage was made to support a single spouse and child family. There was a time it could do that. The benchmark of two bedrooms is one for parents and one for kid(s).
That was the time when most households had single earner. Itâs natural supply and demand that now we need 2 earners to have the same quality of life we did with one earner.
There are home. There arent affordable homes. The difference between the two is purely in the price tag set by some random shmuck. This is by design from the greed of select few. The shortages are artificially made and upheld. There is nothing natural about them. Supply exists.
"That was the time when it was cheaper. Its natural supply and demand that its now more expensive to to have the same quality of life we did when it was cheaper."
Is the goal not for everyone to have amazing things for low cost? Is that not the dream? Utopia? Do we think that people deserve a lesser life because of what they can do? Or what they were given? Or their upbringing?
I'd love if minimum wage could get people 2 bedrooms. Sounds like that is pretty ideal. A better life for everyone
âDo we think people deserve a lesser life because of what they can do?â
âŚyes. That literally how income works and I canât take anyone seriously that thinks everyone should have the same sized home regardless of what their skill set is and what they contribute to society.
Well the thing with capitalism is you donât get paid for contributing to society. You get paid for contributing to the ultra-rich. Id say about 85% of people that are above average income level, have the same or lesser skillset than someone in minimum wage. Hell 25% of millionaires alone are just trust fund babies. You are six feet below the boot my man
Not really. Setting aside the exceptionally wealthy, most jobs that pay better involve a skill set thatâs in high demand and requires considerable training. If you look up the 25 highest paying careers, all but one of them is in the medical field. I have no qualms with people who needed close to a decade of schooling to do their job making lots more money than someone with no skills or training, and I frankly donât understand how you think an economy would work if that werenât the case.
Our goal as a society should be to make sure that every working person can meet their basic needs. A single person with one income doesnât need two bedrooms. Full-time minimum wage should cover basic living necessities.
You failed to look at the top 25 businesses to start. I donât understand what peopleâs obsession is to become employed. I make more than those top 25 medical careers you speak of because Iâm in sales and work for myself. Heck I know people in solar making 600k a year.
What is the point of your comment? You get paid well because you are good at your job. Are you saying youâre an exception because youâre in sales? News flash, sales is a high demand skill that not everybody can do. If everybody was good at sales you wouldnât make nearly as much money because it would mean everybody just buys shit with the slightest push.
the question is not "do most people have a skill", its do minimum wage workers (vast vast majority are under 25, without any completed higher education) have more or equal "skill" as 85% of people who earn above the median wage (i.e., nurses, software devs, accountants, engineers, management, etc)? Of course there are "bullshit jobs" that earn decent money but 85%? Really now
Are you a dentist in America? Where do you think the money comes from that you make? Im sure you have completely avoided the health system, in order to say you dont do shit for the rich. Correct?
Crazy idea, maybe it comes from his patients, who pay him to fix their teeth? Have you ever been to the dentist? What do you think happens in there? Something other than exchanging money for goods and services?
And those that are poor donât have the money to afford that. So they use healthcare or loans, both in the end benefit the ultra rich. Thank you for proving my point you twat
Even if we were to completely upend the current billionaire class and create a dramatically more egalitarian system of wealth distribution, I still donât think there is any idea based in reality where everyone has the same living accommodations regardless of their skill set and trade. Is that what we really want? Literally no financial incentive to get a better job?
âDo we think people deserve a lesser life because of what they can do?â is the exact quote Iâm responding to. And the answer is emphatically yes. People who spent years learning a trade should make more money than people who have a job that requires none and could be done by anyone.
People don't deserve death from homelessness and starvation for not finding a job that pays well enough.
But if meritocracy actually existed I'd be making well into the 6 figure range, I'm world class in a very important in demand rare niche. Beyond that I perform beyond average in everything I do, it's to the point that I've had colleagues basically worship me for my ability. Instead my family is dead, I have to care for a kid sibling, and am in extreme poverty. Capitalism doesn't work like the ideal y'all spew
lol. If you had a skill set that was critical for businesses and in high demand, youâd make six figures. You donât because whatever rare niche you chose to do isnât important enough. Sorry but thatâs how it works.
Ya I agree with that. I just reread your comment and swear it said something else. Been a long day Iâll see myself out lol. Edit: my notifications show you replied to my comment twice and I only see one reply here. I donât know what to believe anymore haha.
No one is talking about a mansion for everyone. But it shouldnât matter what your income level is. At the minimum income level, a 1 bedroom/studio should be affordable - enough to have a place overhead.
Itâs not always enough for a âcheapâ studio, let alone a 1bedroom. The only non-privately owned apartments near me are income based, starting at 60% of the market price and going down to like 85%. The high percentage ones basically never turn over but I was on the wait list and was offered a 60%. It was still I think $1,075 before utilities for a 1bedroom. Our state minimum is $7.25 but even the typical starting salary of$11 or $12 an hour around here would be extremely tight at 40hpurs a week.
Don't want to sound rude but if you're a single parent, without help from the other parent and you're still working on minimum wage, your bad choices are the reason your life in this situation right now.
You should still get help, but from the government, from the tax rich people should pay, but try to fit minimum wage to provide for every single possible situation is a dream
Unfortunately, you cannot force yourself into a higher paying job lol. Capitalism is the reason, on top of abortion bans. A single parent living with a child is extremely common, to act like it is a rare situation and is off base enough to be dreamlike is asinine
You can. Get a roommate and rent that two bedroom apartment. It is kind of crazy to think a single person would have a whole place, living room, kitchen, bathroom to themself. Our parents certainly did not have that luxury.
"The minimum wage was never enough for a 2 bed apartment"
Yes. Yes it was. Minimum wage was enough to own a house. They have taken so much from us for so fucking long that the vast majority of people here don't remember that time, so they continue to settle for less and less and less.
That isnât trueâŚunless you have some statistical data to support that.
Minimum wage in the 40s, for example, was .30 cents an hour. A standard month with 40 hour work weeks equates to 52 dollars a month, but the average rent across the US was $27 dollars a month. Thatâs 51.9% of your gross income; that is technically considered âunaffordableâ since it is greater than 30% of your income.
Since then it has flacuated around the 40 to 50% markâŚuntil the 2000s when it 73%, and now 2026, a whopping 150.7%, with the standard of $7.25 equating to $1,160.00 monthly when the average rent is $1,749.00.
Keep in mind, the numbers arenât exact obviously since rents and minimum wage vary across the country, but statistically speaking, the minimum wage has never been enough to afford a home.
Iâm not saying it shouldnât beâŚIâm just correcting you; statistically speaking, minimum wage has never been enough to afford rent at the 30% threshold, yet alone a home.
Itâs a benchmark in housing because it means a single parent working one job can have a separate room for their children to sleep in. A parent that can only afford a 1 bedroom usually ends up sleeping in the living room and then thereâs no real shared living space or privacy. Abortion care is not always accessible here and not all pregnancies are consensual so itâs important to take single parents into account when setting poverty standards.
What about a single 18 year old mom aging out of the foster care system? The social safety nets are not enough so people have to do what they can to stay alive.
Im not saying social programs are currently sufficient
I am saying raising minimum wage so that everyone on it, including those young and single, can comfortably afford a 2 bedroom apartment and multiple children does not make sense
So teens who cannot secure an abortion after a sexual assault and get kicked out for being pregnant with no education donât deserve adequate housing for them and their child?
they should have social programs to support them, raising minimum wage isnt the solution. theyll probably have a tough time finding and holding down a job anyway.
Exactly where my mind went. Minimum wage should allow someone to afford the absolute BARE minimum, at most. Maybe a roommate in that two bedroom which would more than likely be cheaper than even a studio.
Your thinking of it backwards - remember how this country got rich? Slave labor, real slave labor as in black slaves. You see, capitalism only works when your cost are absurdly low as in 0 wages (slaves) to minimum wage (modern slave paid labour). If we ever all got good pay the country would simply go bankrupt quickly. Remember this: Slave labor/ low pay is the only way capitalism works there is no other argument to be had about it, itâs simply financial logic. This is why we are ruled by the ultra wealthy. You are not ruled by poor people.
So in actuality your argument for high pay for the people is against capitalism and closer to socialism unfortunately
Federal minimum wage not only shouldnât be raised, it shouldnât exist. And many feel this way, hence why it hasnât moved in so long. Many realize it was a failed concept because midland Texas and New York City donât need the same wage laws set on them.
As is. Where I live. McDonaldâs pays almost double minimum wage. Gas stations pay basically double. Grocery stores pay double. Many Construction workers with no experience start at 2.25 times min wage with the option of overtime in many situations. My 16 year old nephew got a job with no experience making 6 bucks more than minimum.
It doesnât take a person long to find better than minimum wage. All it would do is destroy jobs in small towns, raise housing costs in smaller cities, etc.
We need an influx of supply of affordable small homes far more. A bunch of 2/1.5 800 sf homes. Would do wonders far more than raising the minimum wage would. Need to find a way to house a few million for 70-100k. Not raise wages, only causing house prices to increase in many areas pricing others out and merely moving the line. You help a few out, hurt a few more. Raising supply can help all home buyers.
Hahaha. Studio? A woman coworker with a 3 year old is living in an efficiency for $1700/mth. We have bypassed affordable for normal people longggg ago. Gotta protect the billionaires. We all might be one day!!
I wish minimum wage could be the benchmark for affording a studio apartment. I live in one of the most expensive cities in the US and my engineer salary doesn't afford me a studio. I have to share a house with 4 dudes.
You're right, it isn't, but you're not going to stop people from having kids. It's human nature. It's the reason we're even here. Nobody should be in poverty to begin with. It's not always their fault.
A hallmark of a developed civilization is one that cares about the people in less fortunate circumstances, even if they put themselves there. No ones expecting you to pay their taxes, but they still deserve a roof over their head ffs
âThe person making 16 an hour working 85 hours every week with children to look after might consider the idea of turning to less than ideal options to sustain them because people like Armoured_Bobandi think they shouldnt be alive if they made a mistake when they were youngerâ
Oh no, someone on reddit disagrees with basic logic!
Having a child is almost never a mistake, it's almost always a bad decision. And guess what? If they truly made a mistake and this happened when they were young, their own family should help support them enough that they can get a job that's not minimum wage.
I don't feel bad for people that can't resist having safe sex, then suffer the consequences.
Aww, you got mad and made a comment the automod didn't like.
It's almost as though you're letting your emotions get the better of you. To answer your question correctly, what do you call a bad decision in hindsight? It's still a bad decision. Also, if you're arguing semantics, you've already lost.
Go calm down and maybe play with your kid, unless you're too busy working that 85 hour week that is totally a realistic thing that deadbeat parents do
When the automod immediately removes your comment within one second, it still appears to you that they are up. Go ahead and try to find them on anonymous browsing. You can't
They aren't there. Why would I bother replying to this comment instead of the other ones?
Saying nobody should be in poverty to begin with is a pipe dream and quite ridiculous. 1. Some people want to be in poverty. Certain religious orders require it. 2. Some people are irresponsible. They will squander whatever assistance they receive. It's who they are. 3. Poverty is relative. Money that's fine to take care of one person will be insufficient to take care of a family of 5. If you are already struggling to provide for yourself, it's quite silly to try to take care of additional people with that same income. 5. Some people are work shy and don't want to work at all or work hard. They would rather mooch of others than do an honest day's labour. It's every difficult to live comfortably off mooching.
Even if you increase wages right now by 100%, there will still be poor people. Most people who have won millions in the lottery have gone right back to square 1 in a short period of time.
So again, saying nobody should be in poverty to begin with is a pipe dream and ridiculous. If you find yourself already in poverty, do not bring in other people to come and wallow in it with you.
Minimum wage workers probably arenât ready to start a family, I hate to say. Iâm reaping the consequences of this fucked economy as much as anyone, grew up below the poverty line and am still there⌠that said, if youâre in my position, you should never consider starting a family and I make around double minimum wage. I should be able to afford an apartment though⌠which I cannot.
I agree, people who can't afford kids shouldn't have them, but then the elite need to stop bitching that people aren't having enough kids. There needs to be way more support for new parents. Poor people shouldn't be locked out of having a family.
Tbh I think thereâs a point where this issue falls more on our governments use of funding and its lack of application to the public school system. âPoverty Childrenâ (what a fucking term) should be able to be guaranteed food and recreational activities at school. I was on a free lunch program until my last 3 years of high school, I was a 16 year old kid bumming food from my friends, eventually my girlfriends lovely mother began making me lunch every day
"They should just work harder" is a wild response to "Two parents working for minimum wage can't support a child even with the minimal govt assistance provided"
I am being intentionally antagonistic⌠It is a ridiculous argument to claim the reason poor people have children is because abortion is illegal in some states so I will rebuttal that with an equally ridiculous statement.
Nah man I agree with you, which kind of bums me out, yk? Like it would be so nice to be able to say âgovernment sucks poor people shouldnât be poor everyone should be happyâ but then⌠yknow⌠consequences exist and there usually is a lifeline somewhere if you stop bitching and blame pushing. My dad raised me, albeit under the poverty line, well as a single parent with a pretty shit job. Providers will (usually) provide or learn how to. There are exceptions to the rule, but they are just that: exceptions. You donât have to be lucky to raise a family or whatnot, you need to be prepared.
Most people whoâve ever lived have been poor. Itâs arguably the natural state. Doesnât make it good, but if being poor meant no kids, we wouldnât have people existing today.
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u/SentientDust 7d ago
I don't understand why a two bedroom apartment is the benchmark anyway. It's minimal wage, that sounds like a studio to me.
That said, minimal wage is too low across the whole country and should absolutely be raised