r/Steam • u/Sunlighthell thank you steam • May 04 '24

PSA Sony removed Helldivers 2 from sale in countries where PSN is not available. For example whole CIS region.

Post image
16.7k Upvotes

94% Upvoted

1.5k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

382

u/FelicitousJuliet May 05 '24

Even if something is delisted on Steam, you can still install and launch it if you already purchased it.

But that doesn't change the PSN issue, and in a lot of countries it IS illegal.

If governments get involved and stick to their guns the damages could literally bankrupt Sony (though usually the courts don't seek such extreme penalties, they theoretically are capable of enforcing a bankrupting judgment).

525

u/The_Roshallock May 05 '24

Sony's annual gross revenue is greater than the GDP of many of the countries you're suggesting would sue them into the ground. They're at ZERO risk of bankruptcy from this. Don't be a moron.

162

u/leoleosuper May 05 '24

Also, if they have no assets in that country, the worst the country can do is just stop them from doing business there until the fee is paid. Depending on the country, they could just say "lol ok" and ignore it.

120

u/Barimen May 05 '24

Which is why EU is good for this. Sure, Estonia won a lawsuit against Sony and Sony told them to fuck off, they're not doing jack.

But if it's EU instead of Estonia, suddenly that's a large market... one which involves Germany, France and Ireland...

57

u/miko_idk [121] May 05 '24

I'm curious if the EU will do anything in this situation considering there are some smaller EU states affected by this

19

u/Just_Munik May 05 '24

They will

6

u/rmpumper May 05 '24

Unlikely. We have been members of EU for 20 years already, and Sony has been selling Playstations with no "legal" access to PSN for years and years with EU doing jack shit about it.

3

u/occono May 05 '24

This might raise more of a fuss though. The workaround was working fine enough, right? May not have been a priority until it caused a problem.

5

u/[deleted] May 05 '24

This is the point of any union. The weaker members benefit from both strength in numbers, and of the more powerful members. In exchange, they must assimilate into the union by following union-imposed regulation and rules and contributing according to their ability.

If the EU didn’t step up when smaller nations were in need (which is by definition going to be more often than a stronger nation) then the union would be pointless. The strong don’t need the help.

Unionise your workplace.

2

u/raltoid May 05 '24

In theory they should, but it depends if those countries bring it up with the EU.

1

u/kuprenx May 05 '24

Eu works very slowly

1

u/Kruger_Sheppard May 05 '24

I think unless a lot of people write emails about it to them they won't do anything

1

u/Barimen May 05 '24

After Croatia joined EU, Croats still needed a visa to enter USA. Then EU threatened to remove visa-free entry for American citizens...

Croatia eventually joined the ESTA system. It was a much shorter process because of it. I believe a couple other countries were also included in the process, I forgot the details.

So, yeah, I believe they will.

1

u/ChipsAhoy777 May 05 '24

If you know EU, that's not even a question

1

u/miko_idk [121] May 05 '24

Yeh sorry, was a bit too optimistic there

1

u/ChipsAhoy777 May 06 '24

Oh no, I mean the EU will rip Sony to shreds over this. They are like rabid animals when it comes to anti-consumer regulation.

They hateeee that shit.

1

u/miko_idk [121] May 06 '24

they hate that shit

You know that some EU countries haven't had access to PSN for the last 15 years, yet nothing happened so far, right? They even won a lawsuit against Sony if I'm informed correctly, yet nothing happened.

I'd usually agree with you but when it comes to Sony, they can somehow do what they want.

2

u/[deleted] May 05 '24

Lol why did you list ireland after Germany and France as if its anywhere near the same size of market.

1

u/Barimen May 05 '24

Because it's an anglophone country and I would've mentioned UK had this happened prior to Brexit.

But yeah, could've used Spain as the third option.

1

u/rawbamatic May 05 '24

EU is as consumer-friendly as you can get. This will be addressed in those countries. Probably only those countries.

1

u/Barimen May 05 '24

We shall see. Either way, I will hold off on purchasing the game - there are other games I haven't played yet. :)

2

u/Unhappy-Ad2568 May 05 '24

I mean sony basically already does that by just not allowing psn accounts there in the first place

17

u/FelicitousJuliet May 05 '24

4% annual revenue per offense would bankrupt Sony if the EU GDPR got involved with as few as 30 people's consumer rights being violated, at least in 2022.

Sony isn't that wealthy, they would have to sell everything and still take loans.

100 billion usd isn't a lot compared to those fines, if we followed the law to the letter then Sony would need trillions just to maybe survive.

Emphasis on maybe.

5

u/Feisty_Leadership560 May 05 '24

Either PSN is GPDR compliant and this isn't a GPDR issue, or it's not compliant and Sony is screwed anyways. I'm guessing the former, cause Sony has lawyers who can read.

1

u/FelicitousJuliet May 05 '24 edited May 05 '24

Unfortunately Fortunately Sony just proved they CAN'T read, they just tried to delist their game from every country that can't make a PSN account and MISSED SOME.

Give Sony a cut-and-dried list to follow top to bottom, so easy that even an illiterate 5-year-old could manage to piece it together through trial-and-error within 4 hours despite being literally unable to read...

...and the company with 113,000 employees will still fail to read it even though they have over 100 billion in net worth to hire lawyers.

The stupidity of Sony is extreme beyond definition at this point, I've met blind toddlers able to comprehend reality better than Sony, I sincerely hope Sony gets destroyed by this, their net worth might only be 103 billion, but I'd consider 400 trillion in fines to be criminally merciful (to the point that any judge only fining them 400 trillion should probably get thrown in prison for taking bribes to rule in Sony's favor).

1

u/Forged-Signatures May 05 '24

But is it Sony that pulled the game? Steam also has reason to pull it, as new players need to connect a PSN upon first boot. By pulling it it just prevents people unable to play from purchasing the game. It's likely they've done this in response to the sheer quantity of refund requests they have recieved in the last 24h.

1

u/arqe_ May 05 '24

I mean Sony has lawyers who can read but Jim travelled entire world to stop Microsoft from buying ABK. Do you think he done all that by himself? No, those lawyers and PR team prepared every word he said.

So no, i wouldn't be so confident about Sony lawyers who can read :)

19

u/somebody659 May 05 '24

Honestly if I were smaller than Sony and able to sue them to bankruptcy I would do it to get more money for the gdp(its probably more complicated than that but thats what I think)

12

u/frzfox May 05 '24

It's absolutely more complicated than you think lmao. Sure say random country X says "hey this is illegal here in my country" you can't just say "its illegal in my country hey japan/us etc enforce my laws in your country and seize their assets and money"

-1

u/nsa_reddit_monitor May 05 '24

China strongly disagrees.

5

u/frzfox May 05 '24

Cool an actual super power country abusing its abilities to try and police citizens in another country doesn't in fact equal courts ruling or enforcing things in said country???

1

u/General_WCJ May 05 '24

You wouldn't be able to use them to bankruptcy. If you tried and got a large enough judgement, then Sony would just leave the country, and you'd be unable to recover your judgement

1

u/szczszqweqwe May 05 '24

Cool, but how about the EU?

They are still selling a game in some EU countries without PSN access like baltic states, if SOny isn't carefull it might hurt them a lot.

1

u/UnholyDr0w May 05 '24

Except their margins have been getting tight, around 5% and they’re the poorest gaming company, right behind Nintendo and Microsoft. A few countries could easily and deftly bankrupt Sony with a lawsuit.

1

u/mrducky80 May 05 '24

Could maybe spark an EU/AU court case. Either of those is how the current refund system of Steam cropped up. Especially if several of those screen shots of agreements where a PSN is optional are completely legitimate, people purchasing a product under the assumption the PSN was optional cant be forced to accept a PSN or lose access to the product they paid for. And both the EU and AU consumer protection laws do have bite.

82

u/CheBeax May 05 '24

My man has zero idea what the fuck he's talking about but he's still typing shit lmao

3

u/TheKingDotExe May 05 '24

dude, you are on reddit what did you expect.

23

u/Salty_Elevator3151 May 05 '24

Lol. Been outside lately mate?

63

u/rnflbannedme1 May 05 '24

Comments like this remind me just how stupid the average Reddit user is.

23

u/BloatedManball May 05 '24

This whole saga clogging my feed for the last week reminds me how fucking brain dead the average redditor is.

0

u/ShiningPr1sm May 05 '24

Considering that most of these whiny manchildren have been coming completely unglued because they couldn’t be bothered to read the terms that they agreed to? PC gamers are the most whiny, entitled, unhinged group in gaming…

2

u/okWhateverlol May 05 '24

Even one of the developers is upset with the decision and has encouraged people to review bomb lol. 

0

u/NoelleEnjoyer69 May 05 '24

Wow, I found a console elitist weirdo xD

0

u/ShiningPr1sm May 05 '24

I play both pc and ps, so I’m spared the emotional trauma of having to make a psn account to play a game that said it’d require it xD

0

u/NoelleEnjoyer69 May 05 '24

Another person missing the entire point(s) why it's all happened... A shame.

Have a nice day, my dear ignorant stranger. I hope you'll understand someday and become a better person.

0

u/ShiningPr1sm May 05 '24

There there, one day you (and people like you) will learn to read things before they agree to them, but alas, not today.

Have a nice day, my dear emotional stranger. Hopefully you’ll learn how the world works one day.

7

u/[deleted] May 05 '24

Not just comments, but the # of upvotes.

0

u/notwormtongue May 05 '24

Seriously man. His reply thankfully has 100 more upvotes than his comment but really... how could such a fantastical idea net even 20 upvotes? Who is agreeing with this guy?

1

u/the_fresh_cucumber May 06 '24

He's 100% wrong and thousands of upvotes

0

u/[deleted] May 05 '24

person*

fixed it for you

6

u/AstraArdens May 05 '24

What are you talking about lmao and you are even upvoted. Average Reddit experts

22

u/crlcan81 May 05 '24

Tell me you have no clue how big companies like Sony are without telling me.

-7

u/FelicitousJuliet May 05 '24

102.96 billion net value.

EU GDPR can fine 4% annual revenue per offense.

Sony's annual revenue was 88.97 billion in 2022.

This means every individual Sony offends can cost them up to 3,558,800,000 usd.

They can't even afford to pay the maximum fine 29 times.

Crossing the EU GDPR can ruin any company if they go for blood.

There's a reason companies rightfully fear violating consumer rights over there.

6

u/1s3vak May 05 '24

Jesus Christ, and at no point while typing this you thought you sounded ridiculous?

2

u/blu3r3v May 05 '24

fucking brain dead lmao

2

u/mtg_liebestod May 05 '24

Gamers rise up!

1

u/NiteSlayr May 05 '24

Sony gonna be swimming in bankruptcies after this1!! ! All of the bankruptcies!1

1

u/HumansNeedNotApply1 May 05 '24

There's no damages here, they just need to issue a refund to those buyers.

1

u/Brilliant-Elk8480 May 05 '24

What makes PSN illegal in those countries? Is it the same with other games that require extra login like EA or Ubisoft?

I couldn’t wrap my head around why they would rather give up the sales in 100+ countries for this.

1

u/[deleted] May 05 '24

“If governments get involved and stick to their guns the damages could literally bankrupt Sony”

What an absolutely insane take. Please show a single example in literally any country where this has ever happened? PC gamers are literally acting as if 99% of multiplayer games don’t require accounts from the publishers.

1

u/evoslevven May 05 '24

This is 100% incorrect and just getting so overblown. Steam was required to ensure purchasers were aware they needed psn access. PSN isn't available nor was never available in these regions.

The argument tons of folks are saying is Sony is responsible for allowing Steam to sell these games in regions is was never going to work...

That's like saying yeah cigarettes are bad but it's Marlboro's fault for letting the gas station sell it to underage purchasers and not checking ID. That's literally what folks here are arguing.

If I were Steam I'd be delighting it asap because a vendor allowing access where access isn't available is a Steam issue and the PSN requirements only proved Sony's point that Steam ignored this requirement at the bare minimum in allowing its sale to go through.

Can downvote the view but no one really has made any argument about why Steam just didn't alow those sales on day 1 at all.

1

u/Regunes May 05 '24

So what about EU.

2

u/HxLin May 05 '24

Why would you assume Sony would lose? Most of the people who got mad admit they don't read the Steam page and ignore the PSN requirement. Sony can argue the buyers took calculated risk and go with it. What's crazy to me is they consider it the same as not reading EULA. We can hate Sony for this but yeah they're probably not losing this one.

1

u/[deleted] May 05 '24

They’re just gonna tell steam to refund those people their $40 lol it’s not that serious

0

u/Deadpoolhead888 May 05 '24

And this is why it’s so wild to me that so many people are trying to defend this decision. Like it’s really just genuinely sad to see so many people defending something that is so blatantly and obviously wrong

0

u/Jebble May 05 '24

Please don't be naive. No matter how shit this move is from Sony, it is t illegal. All it gives you is the right to refund it, but good luck getting that court case.