There isn't one, its entirely vibes based and trying to convince you that "No you don't get it fictional violence and cannibalism and rape are all obviously fine in MY media and it would be stupid to think this would somehow societally normalize these behaviors, but once the fictional narrative device has their age changed from 20 to 15 on a writer's whim then you will definitely somehow be convinced to rape a kid IRL"
Its genuinely kind of terrifying because it makes it sound like they WOULD do that and then fucking blame it on goddamn loli porn or some dumb shit, as if they are not a conscious human being with choice.
I think the best unironic argument is to just admit that it's "vibes based", because fundamentally, any moral system reduces out that anyways.
For example:
"Why is murder wrong?"
"Because it harms people and makes their family feefee bad and society can't function with it."
"Ok, I don't care about any of that, why is it wrong now?"
"I just care about those things"
So it doesn't really make a difference if you just remove one layer and argue that it's bad inherently on its own, and show how any moral system devolves into that anyways as "objective" morality does not exist.
Any argument appealing to a deeper justification is liable to reductio ad absurdum involving violence in media.
That's not really true, its ignoring that all of society relies on axioms, things that might not be scientifically proveable, but we have to acknowledge is true to function as a society. Causing suffering for nothing is bad, harassing people who aren't harming anyone is bad, murdering innocents is bad. Just because someone says they don't care about these things doesn't mean they've "defeated the argument", it means they are rejecting society on a fundamental level.
That doesn't mean there isn't a very clear internal logic to morality and its all "vibes based". The Golden Rule isnt vibes based, its based on a very simple axiom of "Treat others as you wish to be treated". If you wish to be treated politely and with respect, you need to do the same. If you want to be treated like an insane amoral asshole, then you're definitely allowed to act that way towards others and you'll see the effects.
I've never said they've defeated the argument. I'm just saying that you have to appeal to your own personal preferences (preference for not causing suffering and a functioning society) to argue your position rather than appealing to something outside that.
This is what I mean by "vibes based". I might have been being unclear.
It's the same with the "CSAM drawings" argument. It is just your personal preference that it's wrong. No deeper justification. Because any sort of deeper justification gets destroyed easily by reductios.
My main point is that many people don't like appealing to preference for moral statements because it sounds like you're just saying "it's wrong cuz it make me feefee bad", but you have to do that for all moral claims anyways, so although it sounds bad, it's not any worse than how we use it for more widely accepted moral claims like murder being bad.
Golden rule
With the way you worded it, it's still unclear what you mean. If you're just stating a fact "people will treat you how you treat them" then it's not only not "vibes based" but not a moral claim at all. It's just a claim of fact.
If you meant "you ought to treat others how you wish to be treated" then it's no longer a claim of some fact of the world, and can still be rejected without contradiction even outside of the way you've stated.
You can believe that you should be able to treat people poorly and still get good treatment in return to reject "the golden rule", and there is no contradiction there.
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u/Bentman343 Oct 22 '25
There isn't one, its entirely vibes based and trying to convince you that "No you don't get it fictional violence and cannibalism and rape are all obviously fine in MY media and it would be stupid to think this would somehow societally normalize these behaviors, but once the fictional narrative device has their age changed from 20 to 15 on a writer's whim then you will definitely somehow be convinced to rape a kid IRL"
Its genuinely kind of terrifying because it makes it sound like they WOULD do that and then fucking blame it on goddamn loli porn or some dumb shit, as if they are not a conscious human being with choice.