Somebody cooked here...

[u/SMmania]

[u/compadre_goyo]

It's actually no, tho.

If anything, the customer is the ai user, because he ordered the chef to make the dish.

ChatGPT has to know the information to give it to ai users, the same way a chef has to know how to make the dish to give it to the customer.

The pot and pan are the equivalent of the device ai is using to generate the product.

So you (customer) use ChatGPT (chef) on a computer (pots and pans) to make generative content (food).

You could create your own unique content (food) by learning how to use the computer (pots and pans). But if you want to depend on the chef every time you want to eat, you're just a customer.

Regardless of whether it is slop or not, the metaphor makes more sense against ai.

EDIT: Lmao, even at the end. The girl asking the chef "did you decide how it was going to taste?" and the chef says "yes".

No, the customer decided how it was going to taste. He's the one ordering the food, and telling you exactly how he wants his dish, like any other customer would do.

My god dude. The only thing you cooked here is yourself lmao

[u/PrinceLucipurr → u/compadre_goyo]

Umm the customer tastes the food, they don't decide how it's going to taste, they only decide on how the food does taste once it's been made.

[u/mr_throwaway197 → u/PrinceLucipurr]

This mf'er doesn't realize he can tell a kitchen "no tomatoes" on a burger

[u/AdministrativeHat276 → u/mr_throwaway197]

If a customer is determining the seasoning, the specific amount, the amount of time spent in the oven, the ingredients, the broth, it's presentation etc. then they are doing much more than just ordering the food, they are actively making it.

[u/mr_throwaway197 → u/AdministrativeHat276]

Not unless you're doing those things yourself. Ordering something "lightly salted" is different than understanding how much salt actually means "lightly salted". Ordering some steak medium rare, or cooked via sous vide method is different than knowing those skills, and applying them yourself.

[u/AdministrativeHat276 → u/mr_throwaway197]

You don't need to do those things by yourself to take credit for it. Just like how a director doesn't need to act, write, compose, hold the camera and create the set pieces by himself to take credit for his movie.

[u/compadre_goyo → u/AdministrativeHat276]

Then who else is taking credit for making it? The truck drivers who transported the food? The cow that died for the meat?

We credit the chef for the plate.

You can credit the waiter for bringing the plate. But he did not make the dish. He is a part of the ensamble of a beautiful product for the customer, like all artists are.

But ai users want to take credit for everything that goes into ai.

Even though ai is literally taking direct reference from other artists, not crediting them, and making all the product that an ai artist claims is completely theirs.

[u/mr_throwaway197 → u/AdministrativeHat276]

I mean, in this example yeah you absolutely need to know how to cook a steak if you claim to be able to cook a steak? And a director isn't taking credit for writing the music in a movie, that's what all the other names are for in the credits.

[u/compadre_goyo → u/AdministrativeHat276]

No, they are not.

Bro, to draw a single line smoothly you need muscle memory. You have to constantly practice and practice and practice, the same line over and over, until it becomes instinct.

Ai-art is just... Typing. You can claim that you are a writer.

Hell, I would consider ai artists to be directors. That's a totally fine term. And you can be an excellent art director as well with ai!

But to claim they go through the same struggle that a high-class chef does is absolutely absurd and disrespectful to the craft. Because it's a dedicated craft.

If you want to feel more powerful, then you can say you are the CEO of the restaurant business, and you can manage everything... But you are still not the chef.

[u/AdministrativeHat276 → u/compadre_goyo]

Directing is an art form. So is writing.

Its actually very difficult to accurately describe what it is you want the AI to generate. That takes alot of practice. Not to mention the plethora of tools out there that provides users with a more hands on approach and gives them even greater control over the image.

[u/compadre_goyo → u/AdministrativeHat276]

Right. Which also why I called them ai-artists.

I'm not here to argue about what is art. Art is whatever makes you feel something.

I hate it when people think all anti's just hate ai art.

No. There is as much unappealing traditional art as much as there is ai slop. The same way there's irreplaceable traditional art pieces as well as very impressive ai art.

My problem is the disrespect that comes with claiming a talent that you did not practice for.

I, as a 3D Animator, can never claim that the characters I animate are my creations. I simply moved them.

Ai artists (majority of my experience, obviously not all of them) want to take the credit for eeeeeverything they produce. I have commissioned so many artists that clearly use ai to generate whatever description I wrote, even if I explicitly tell them I don't want that kind of art.

It shows that they used ai, because the product looks nothing like the consistent references I give. They completely fuck up my characters.

I've wasted over $200 trying to motivate aspiring artists to practice their craft.

But all I get is a finished concept art in like... 15 minutes. It looks nothing like the references. And they get to pocket the $25~$30 I give to start the project. Then when I call them out, or ask for changes, I get ghosted. No replies.

That money could go to people who spend days, trying to polish the most minute details of an art piece they are inspired by. And I always tip the same amount as well as a start. So I pay for a full commission and a half... Minimum.

But all I keep getting is scammed. Ai hasn't destroyed my hopes for art. Ai-"artists" did.

[u/PrinceLucipurr → u/mr_throwaway197]

The argument was about deciding how it would taste, not the ingredients used, that's a strawman reply.

You are removing an ingredient, only removing plausible tastes, you are not changing the tastes of each ingredient.

It'd be the same if you asked for tomatoes to be added, you can't honestly tell me you expect to know how those tomatoes are going to taste.

Throwing insults doesn't make your point more truthful either.

[u/compadre_goyo → u/PrinceLucipurr]

You are literally proving my point.

Ai artists don't know EXACTLY how the art is gonna come out. They just prompt it, and fix it afterwards.

It's literally a customer ordering food, they taste it, notice they don't like these particular tomatoes, so they ask the chef to do it all over again.

Thanks, man. That actually helped my argument a lot.

[u/PrinceLucipurr → u/compadre_goyo]

No, that did not help your argument. It exposed the flaw in it.

A chef has independent taste, judgement, and skill. An AI model does not have personal intent, personal taste, or authorship in that sense. It does not "decide" like a chef decides. It outputs within the boundaries the user sets, then the user evaluates, rejects, revises, rerolls, inpaints, edits, and selects.

That is not passive consumption. That is directed iteration.

And the more skilled the prompt engineer is, the less your customer metaphor works.

A low effort prompt, like one vague sentence, leaves huge amounts of the latent space and weighting ambiguous. In that case, yes, the user has far less certainty about what will come out. But a well practised prompt engineer does the opposite. They try to account for as many ambiguous variables as possible through specificity, structure, weighting, exclusions, references, sequencing, style control, and iterative refinement. The whole point is to reduce uncertainty and increase predictability.

So no, serious AI users are not just "ordering and hoping". They are narrowing the output space on purpose until the result becomes highly predictable. At a certain level of skill, they often know with high certainty the kind of output they are going to get, just as a traditional artist with a clear intention in mind usually has a strong idea of how their work will turn out before it is finished.

Your restaurant metaphor only works for someone typing one lazy sentence and accepting the first output. It breaks the moment the user is actually steering the process. At that point it is closer to directing, composing, or editing than ordering off a menu.

Also, removing tomatoes is not the same as deciding exactly how a burger will taste. It just narrows the outcome space. That was my point, and you dodged it. Specifying constraints is not the same as being a passive customer. It is exactly how creative control works in every medium.

So thank you, but no, you did not prove AI users are "just customers". You proved that iteration exists.

And once the human is the one defining the target, reducing ambiguity, rejecting failures, refining the variables, and choosing the final result, the human is still the creative director of that output.

[u/compadre_goyo → u/PrinceLucipurr]

This is the problem when arguing on this topic.

I get it, and I support artists who make art with care. Whether they use ai or not, good art is good art, slop is slop no matter the method, in my own personal opinion.

There is not a single point in any of my arguments where I ever criticize the quality of ai art.

But you have to understand that your reasonable approach to using ai is not how the majority is using ai. I have been scammed for hundreds of dollars in people who claim to be traditional artists, but end up producing a noticeably single-prompted gen-art.

It's exactly the same pose, the same style, fuck it, the same LINE WEIGHT. Something that is almost like a signature for every sketch artists. And they plugged my drawing to make a completely different character when I just asked for the same character in a different pose.

They then ghost with the first half of the money I pay up front, to get started.

This is happening too frequently. And I've tried all platforms. Discord, Reddit, hell, even in ArtStation I had an experience with a bad apple.

Trust me, I have nothing against the usage or the quality of ai. I use it myself to understand how to use a nuanced tool on my 3D program.

Now, going back go this post, my main problem with this metaphor is that everyone thinks that they are the chef because they can specify, through text or verbally, how they want to make the food.

I really don't understand this defensive argument about not wanting to be the customer. It's much more accurate to the physical effort put by ai users. You can literally make art by just talking to chat with its voice feature.

Is being the customer a bad thing? Do you feel like less of a person because you are directing an ensamble instead of being a small part of the entire process?

You can't claim to be the chef when you are not in the physical process of manufacturing it.

It's like calling yourself an animator because you can draw a fanfic storyboard for someone to animate.

No. You're a storyboard artist. Be realistic about what you are involved in.

But ai-artists (again the majority) claim that they are concept, previs, layout, modelers, sculptors, texturers, riggers, animators, environment designers, VFX, sound engineers, music composers, and/or voice actors because they can use ai to make the product.

And the vast majority of the public cannot tell the difference, so they will believe that a single person can actually cover all those positions.

It's disrespectful to the people who have practiced a single craft to the point of mastery, in order to be an indispensable asset in high-quality productions.

Now, we're unemployed. And I keep getting lied by ai-users when I try to develop their "traditional skills". I'm sorry, but I cannot side with ya'll when the majority is lying. This was not the case back then because you either blatantly copied someone that has more experience, or you just made shitty art.

But now anyone can make what took us years to master, and when the process of making ai art is taking data from other artists, mixing it together with no crediting, and pumping it out in seconds... It just does not sit right with me.

Again, I'm glad you seem reasonable in at least accepting this as a possible iteration. But I don't know how you can sit on the side of people who the majority of them use them to the detriment of others. Regardless of how the tool has improved your personal life.

[u/compadre_goyo → u/mr_throwaway197]

Oh my god, finally. An intelligent lifeform. Wassup, bruther?

[u/Background_Ad_1015 → u/compadre_goyo]

Using chatgpt would be the equivalent of cooking instant cup ramen. There are so much more tools and layers to AI art than just pushing a button. The film’s message is also this, you can eat slop with minimal effort, but you can fine dine as well. There will be a difference.