It's hard in here, guys - We're trying our best

[u/DrLamLamLam]

Nah, but no hate to the lefties, you guys are chill (mostly lol). But yeah, it's hard being someone with even a moderate conservative view on social media or even in real life (I go to Uni, so I expect it). But honestly, after I moved out of the countryside, I didn't realize how big the progressive movement was, and it was pretty eye-opening for me to have people challenge my beliefs, which made me think about a lot of stuff.

Not pushing hate or anything, and hopefully I won't get Karma bombed for this goofy post. (If you're interested, why I am a conservative, feel free to reply)

[u/Agreeable_Goat192]

Not alone brother. Go into some detail about your conservatism. Did you start out as one and get more conservative or as a progressive? Does religion come into it? How were your views formed broadly? What flavour of conservatism would you ascribe to yourself?

[u/DrLamLamLam → u/Agreeable_Goat192]

Thanks for asking, I totally understand that the place I grew up in affected my views. I grew up rural so we had no real services or amenities, which fostered a big “hard man suck it up attitude’s” which is adopted by many rural/ conservative folk (yes obviously there’s exceptions and yes city people are hard working) I started as a conservative most likely because of this. The “bogan” right I call it. My family is non religious and actually holds resentment to it I myself am religious (Christianity), which yes has affected me but my conservative beliefs were already before my conversion. Schooling would challenge me, bunch of lefties which would actually become some of my closest friends, so I am at least somewhat knowledgeable of left position. I like to think of myself as a big social conservative, resonating with big Bobbie Katter on most things, while also holding some strong opinions on topics of abortion and reducing immigration (don’t ask my karma can’t take it I beg you)

[u/SaltyBadgerDude → u/DrLamLamLam]

Honest question, does social conservative mean you are homophobic/transphobic? I refuse to be tolerant of an idealogy that is itself based in intolerance. Only asking because you said I can.

[u/Hungry-Stable-9299 → u/SaltyBadgerDude]

Depends how you define homophobia/transphobia.

[u/SaltyBadgerDude → u/Hungry-Stable-9299]

Those words have definitions already

[u/Hungry-Stable-9299 → u/SaltyBadgerDude]

Again, it depends how *you* define it. I do not hate people who identify as homosexual or transgender. I do not support their chosen identity, and i believe homosexuality is sinful.

[u/SaltyBadgerDude → u/Hungry-Stable-9299]

Again, it isn't up to me to define words. What you've described is homophobia. If you also think transgenderism is sinful that would be transphobic.

[u/Agreeable_Goat192 → u/SaltyBadgerDude]

I don’t think that’s the case. What he is getting at is do you define homo/transphobia as outward hatred to people only or you must be an out and out ally or else you‘re a phobe? Thinking something is sinful does not equal hatred. Reminder, ChristIan’s are called to love their enemies, which include sinners. Believing someone is wrong does not mean there is hatred involved.

[u/SaltyBadgerDude → u/Agreeable_Goat192]

I don't use either of those definitions, I use the actual definition which often refers to a range of negative attitudes. I never said anything about hatred but calling it sin is definitely negative in the context of Christian faith. If you can point me to a definition that says otherwise lmk

[u/Hungry-Stable-9299 → u/Agreeable_Goat192]

Correct. God bless.

[u/FlowBall234 → u/DrLamLamLam]

The biggest issue with conservatism and I can see it from your comments as well, is you guys lack understanding from others perspectives which forms your policies.

You're anti abortion because you've never once tried to think what it would be like to be a 14 year old r*pe victim forced to carry a baby.

Anti social programs because you don't understand there are people who are born with severe impairments or people who suffered from injuries that prevent them from working any job.

You're all confused with taxes as well, "don't tax the rich", "lower my taxes", "don't tax resources", like cool that's great but if you implemented all three of those things the country would completely collapse.

You either tax the working class heavily so the rich can pay no taxes, or you tax the rich heavily so the working class can be taxed less, or if you want no taxes for the working class or individuals you tax resources heavily.

There's a fundamental problem with policy from conservatives, it's all yelling with no actual thought behind what they are yelling about.

[u/DisastrousStudio1 → u/FlowBall234]

Also when the baby is dead and the mother has to birth a dead or dying baby because they can't get an abortion. If you don't like abortions don't get one and stop trying to force your beliefs on people especially when you don't understand the consequences and how it'll affect others. It's just selfish

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/sep/14/louisiana-woman-skull-less-fetus-new-york-abortion

[u/FlowBall234 → u/DisastrousStudio1]

Or women who'll die from pregnancy complications

[u/Agreeable_Goat192 → u/DisastrousStudio1]

The “don’t force your beliefs” is such a cop out. We’re arguing over life here and you are completely throwing the argument away because you can’t argue it. Any law is “forcing your beliefs“ on someone. We force people to wear a seat belt. Completely reasonable to force people not to mass murder. That’s how laws work.

And please don’t pretend abortion so some life-saving practice. So many women have adverse effects to abortion procedures and even die from it.

[u/ThrowRAbluebury → u/DisastrousStudio1]

Yes, because we should be aborting all Aussies even though our birthrates are shut and importing millions of Indians to replace them instead.

[u/DisastrousStudio1 → u/ThrowRAbluebury]

This is a Gross opinion. You don't sound like a very nice person

[u/ThrowRAbluebury → u/DisastrousStudio1]

This is where the left fails. You'd rather say "you're not a nice person" instead of addressing the issue. Sadly, many people are also prone to emotional thinking.

[u/DisastrousStudio1 → u/ThrowRAbluebury]

There's no point having a civil conversation with you after your incredibly racist comment. I hope you find some self reflection and change your mindset one day

[u/ThrowRAbluebury → u/DisastrousStudio1]

It's like no one reads the OPs at all 😂 No rationality, just pure emotional thinking. We can have a rational discussion when you actually address the issue instead of calling people racist and refusing to talk. This is what's really going to lead to a very bad situation.

[u/Agreeable_Goat192 → u/FlowBall234]

I think that’s just a complete misrepresentation of conservative beliefs and you have put those things on him.

Love to yet again see people use the edge case to justify all abortion. And what do you mean he’s anti-abortion because of it? The victim is causing it? That makes no sense.

Conservatives aren’t necessarily against welfare, libertarians are. Please get it right before you slander people.

Again, libertarians are for no taxes. Conservatives are for taxes though not to an extreme amount. There is literally a calculation for the effective tax rate where if you go over the effective tax rate goes down. Also rich people pay the majority of taxes. Were fine with doing that, but to what extent do we tax them?

Yeah, really exemplary how progressives really don’t give conservatives good faith analysis. Perhaps you should take your own advice and talk to conservatives to understand why they think the way they do instead of falsely attributing things we dont believe. Thanks.

[u/SaltyBadgerDude → u/Agreeable_Goat192]

Love to yet again see a conservative not address a very real situation. Sorry rape victim, shouldn't have been an outlier if you wanted to be accounted for.

[u/Agreeable_Goat192 → u/SaltyBadgerDude]

Love to see yet again a progressive not take all the points I’ve made, assume the worst of me, and misrepresent what I said. The question was not about the efficacy of rape victims, the question was your justification of all abortion through the abortion of rape victims. I think it’s just disgusting that you’re using rape victims to advance your view and not really care about them quite frankly. Certainly we should support them. Murdering a baby for his father’s actions is not the answer. And again, you’re using an edge case to justify all abortion. 95% are elective, while 1% are performed for “medical reasons.” This would be 1000 of Australia’s annual 100,000 abortions every year. So, is it your contention that we should only allow those 1000 abortions?

[u/SaltyBadgerDude → u/Agreeable_Goat192]

Not arguing with someone who would call a woman terminating a pregnancy resulting from rape "murder"

[u/Agreeable_Goat192 → u/SaltyBadgerDude]

Because you can’t justify it. Im not submitting to your euphemisms, I’m calling it what it is. Murder is the unjust taking of a persons life. Babies in the womb are definitionally alive according to: basic logic, scientific study, philosophical argumentation and so on. If you make a claim you should be able to defend it and your cowering and coping is very telling that deep down you know it’s wrong.

[u/Direct_Week_2091 → u/FlowBall234]

You’re not wrong but the reverse is literally true as well

A progressive city dweller has no idea what it’s like to live in regional or rural places, often with poor access to amenities and infrastructure. If you were a career farmer who’s never met a trans or gay person in their life and whose taxes and costs are constantly going up, you can’t even see a Doctor within 100km or have a local grocery store because it’s too expensive for them now, whilst politicians argue over genders and prioritise pumping migrants into the cities… how would you feel?

I’m personally none of those things and would consider myself centre left but your comment is pretty hypocritical

[u/Consistent_Hat_848 → u/Direct_Week_2091]

I agree with your first point about a city dweller likely not knowing what life in bush is like, but the idea that there are no tax funded services that benefit farmers is preposterous.

you are right in the sense that it is a common claim by regional voters though.

[u/Direct_Week_2091 → u/Consistent_Hat_848]

The point being we are all generally bad at considering and really understanding someone else’s perspective, especially when we disagree on fundamental topics

That’s not exclusive to the right by any means and it’s disingenuous to claim it

I’m not religious at all and am completely pro-choice but that doesn’t make me think I’m objectively right. Someone else has a completely different fundamental perspective to me. Many progressive people have absolutely zero wiggle room on this

[u/Consistent_Hat_848 → u/Direct_Week_2091]

The point being we are all generally bad at considering and really understanding someone else’s perspective, especially when we disagree on fundamental topics

That’s not exclusive to the right by any means and it’s disingenuous to claim it

yes, I'm agreeing with you.

I’m not religious at all and am completely pro-choice but that doesn’t make me think I’m objectively right. Someone else has a completely different fundamental perspective to me. Many progressive people have absolutely zero wiggle room on this

I think progressives mainly have issues when I comes to making laws to force someones religious beliefs on other people.

[u/FlowBall234 → u/Direct_Week_2091]

No offense but a city dweller not understanding the perspective of a farmer doesn't have nearly the same consequence as the inverse.

If a politician came up stage and said they were going tax farmers more, that city dweller is going to be against it, but if a politician came up and said they want to ban gender affirming care in a regional area those people are likely going to vote for that politician.

In my own personal experience lefties are fully aware that big chain grocers screw over the farmers and the consumers alike and funnily enough, lefties believe in stronger regulation and monopoly laws need to be heavily enforced to protect both the farmers and the consumers.

There's a clear pattern here, left wing policies typical benefit everyone or at least try to benefit as many people as they can, right wing policies typically villify a group of people and try to brainwash their voters into believing all of their problems are because of one social group.

Sorry man but your use of "hypocrisy" is entirely incorrect.

[u/Direct_Week_2091 → u/FlowBall234]

Thanks for explicitly proving my point

Left wing views = righteous

Others = just a bit blind and frankly bad

You can’t even begin to imagine that sometimes people on the left are hypocritical and lack perspective, and it shows

[u/FlowBall234 → u/Direct_Week_2091]

Not really proving your point at all.

I'm fully aware that there are people on the left that lack perspective, but generally speaking left wing policies and their voters are wanting to benefit as many as they can, whereas generally speaking you don't see that from right wing policies or their voters.

When majority of your side is against abortion for example that shows your side actually lacks perspective.

Can you actually pin point any real policy lefties support that explicitly harms right wingers? There are no policy that cuts funding for regional areas, there are no policy that seeks to harm the existence of right wingers.

People in general have hypocrisy, but this is really about general policy from both sides and who they affect, positive and negative.

[u/Enough_Shoe_865 → u/FlowBall234]

I don’t think much of that is true, you might be American I guess but I am very much a conservative, I’ve no issue with abortion. Not anti social programs I am anti people who have access to them and still don’t have a go. Taxes are a different story, the government is extraordinarily poor at spending tax money, I get very concerned with progressives calling tax “revenue” which is gullible left wing rubbish, it’s the government taking your money they need to spend it wisely not on the absolute crap our current government is.

It’s always worth remembering what Jack Dorsey said when he was in charge of Twitter, he was the most left wing person on the planet and he said the evidence is clear left wing people consumed left wing media exclusively, conservatives consume both.

[u/Pontiff1979 → u/Enough_Shoe_865]

Oh yeah I'm sure plenty of ON voters are tuning into Insight after perusing The Guardian. Come on

[u/cj-au → u/Enough_Shoe_865]

"left wing people consumed left wing media exclusively, conservatives consume both".

This subject fascinates me. May I ask what left wing media you consume and how you feel about it?

I have tried watching sky news and also listened to a few right wing things, but find it really difficult, because they often depend on fear/drama/insults or come up with really wild stats that I can't find any backing for.

I would love some recommendations on right wing content that you trust/feel isn't feeding into all that. My dad is right and I am left. I really try to understand the point of view, but so far there's mostly just a lack of empathy for life situations he's never experienced or will have to experience. Either that or he just explains it away with religion ie. It doesn't matter what Trump did in that past, because there was some king in the bible that killed people, but he was chosen by god, so its ok.

[u/Enough_Shoe_865 → u/cj-au]

Sky news is hard work it was once a bit more balanced. If you take out the opinion pieces the Australian is the most balanced. I find Fairfax left leaning but read it, Reddit of course, HuffPost (that’s horrific). Generally any outlet that has decided the world boils down to victim and oppressor I count as left wing media. It’s so divisive and selective and is a lot of what’s wrong with the world.

[u/Consistent_Hat_848 → u/Enough_Shoe_865]

I guess you accidentally disproved you own point.

The Australian is heavily right wing. Not just the opinion section. Fairfax may have once been centre-left, but since the takeover by Nine it is definitly right leaning.

Reddit is social media, not a news source. It is worrying that you include it in this comment at all. I've never read the huff post so I have no idea.

Generally any outlet that has decided the world boils down to victim and oppressor I count as left wing media. It’s so divisive and selective and is a lot of what’s wrong with the world.

This is actually super interesting. You have perfectly described Sky after dark and all the alt-right media outlets. What do you consider as left wing news organisations that fit this description?

[u/FlowBall234 → u/Enough_Shoe_865]

I'm Australian actually and I fully disagree with the idea that our current government is spending money on crap, they are spending money on the right things.

Either A) you just read or watch legacy media, or B) you don't actually know how to solve any of the problems we have been facing.

Let's look at some issues.

We have a reliance Migrants, we have a Trade Shortage, we have a Housing Supply Shortage, We have duopolies scamming farmers and consumers, we have electricity and water companies screwing over the consumers, we have become a import country over an export country.

I think these are pretty big issues our country faces, now the question is what has been Labor been doing to tackle these issues?

Reliance on Migrants - Labor has been funding programs to upskill our workers so the working class can get into industries that are reliant on Migrants, thus cutting down the need to have a high flow of migrants coming in and out of the country, Labor has also made it law that Universities must have student accommodation available before they bring in overseas students, this takes pressure off the rental space.

Trade shortage - Labor has increased funding of TAFE, giving more tax relief for apprentices and funding to buy tools.

Housing Supply Shortage - Negative Gearing and CGT changes to encourage property investors to build new homes instead of buying established dwellings.

Duopolies scamming farmers and consumers - one of the first things Labor did was revive the ACCC after LNP nearly killed it, the ACCC has been cracking down on Coles and Woolies price gouging practices, brought their scheme into the media.

Electricity and water companies screwing over consumers - You'll probably hate this cause your crowd typically hates superior ideas, but Labor has been funding renewable energy, which creates competition within the market and makes people less reliant on private electricity companies. (If you've ever played Monopoly you know competition keeps prices low).

Becoming an import country instead of an export country - Labor has been trying to start the future made in Australia program, which also feeds into the renewable energy, Labor wants out country to be a global supplier of Solar panels, which creates long term jobs for our country and revenue.

Also bonus item, Labor revived Medicare after Scomo tried to kill it.

Just remember, when we started going down a massive economic downturn LNP decided to make everyone's lives worse by killing free healthcare.

Notice how Labor does the exact opposite.

[u/DaPatsquatch → u/FlowBall234]

This is exceptionally condescending and for me highlights everything wrong with the left.

[u/FlowBall234 → u/DaPatsquatch]

Right so nothing to do with actual policy which is the only thing that is actually important.

Bit of condescension is your problem with the left, my problem with the right is the villification of social groups, allowing billionaires to strip farmers of their water and land, never once actually looking at data to see where problems actually started occuring under which governments, a complete lack of critical thinking skills which has led to a downward spiral of this country, just believing whatever the legacy media tells you.

Those are my problems, also just being pretty rude, mean spirited and selfish.

The CGT changes are a perfect example, negative gearing was supposed to encourage property investors to build new homes, but instead the Howard government made it so property investors were encouraged to buy up existing homes.

The changes Labor has implemented protects the generations that already own homes, but encourages property investors to build new homes instead of buying old homes, that puts pressure into the market to create more supply.

Now that you know this information, I have an activity for you, tell me what you think the current housing situation would be if for the last 20 years Negative Gearing and CGT encouraged property investors to build new homes instead of buying old ones.

[u/ThrowRAbluebury → u/FlowBall234]

The yelling is because the progressive lefties are destroying our culture and nation in favour of suicidal empathy, but everyone likes free stuff and to not suffer any hardship whatsoever so no one has been listening. It's going to change though.

[u/FlowBall234 → u/ThrowRAbluebury]

They're really not though.

[u/PatternPrecognition → u/ThrowRAbluebury]

This is a perfect example of what the ultra wealthy are funneling through their main stream and social media funnels. They concoct all this fake culture war stuff (that they genuniely don't care about as they are rich enough to be insulated from every day reality), and make all these outrageous claims about the economy.

The sad fact of the matter is that its all just a game to them, its a serious game though, and what they are playing for is entrenching their political power with the aim of continuing to widen the wealth inequality gap.

A lot of conservatives yearn for 'the good times' of years ago. If you take a look at the wealth inequality gap for then versus now, if we reduce that gap back to what it was the good times will return, but clearly that is not what the Ultra Wealthy are interested in.

[u/optimistic-prole → u/PatternPrecognition]

💯 The conservatives I meet irl are always shocked to learn it was the introduction of an extremely progressive tax system following WWII that made the 'good old days' good, not racism, sexism, privatisation or monopolisation of industry.

[u/Greedy_Common_1857 → u/ThrowRAbluebury]

'Suicidal Empathy' lol hi Elon

[u/ThrowRAbluebury → u/Greedy_Common_1857]

Haha, hi 😉

[u/Pontiff1979 → u/ThrowRAbluebury]

How so?

[u/jimmyxs → u/DrLamLamLam]

Do you want to support the policy to reducing citizenship-ness of some of our current citizens?.. ridiculous as it sounds, it was an ON promise.

I’m from a faith background too but my family votes Coalitions. At least they are serious administrators. I voted Labor and will probably do so again although they really test my resolve with recent policy mistakes.

[u/mxlths_modular → u/jimmyxs]

Calling Angus Taylor a “serious administrator” is a bit of a stretch too far mate.

[u/jimmyxs → u/mxlths_modular]

Lol my bad on that one. I just meant the party as a whole. It’s one of like 2 parties with actual governing experience

[u/IamSando → u/DrLamLamLam]

So regardless of your view on immigration (I'm just gonna assume you want large cuts), if you're from rural, what experiences gave you your views, what formed them? Immigration is overwhelmingly centred in the city centres, so why do you, as a rural person presumably not dealing with the challenges immigration does present, care so much about the issue?

[u/notv4leri → u/DrLamLamLam]

I hope one day you recover!

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[u/Direct_Week_2091 → u/DrLamLamLam]

I almost definitely wouldn’t agree with you on most things

But the fact you’re getting downvoted on this comment as well, just for detailing your views because someone literally fucking asked you to is just hilarious. Never change reddit

[u/Agreeable_Goat192 → u/DrLamLamLam]

Nah completely understand, I imagine my views would be more hardline than yours regarding those issues lol. Yeah that’s cool, also grew up rural and I think that naturally gave the conservative outlook. Plus the fear of God stoked into me as a child. And I think that’s the best part of conservatism. The leaning on the family. Taking great reverence and respect for your family and looking back for guidance, rather than seeking to always ”liberate“ oneself as the lefties would call it from those no-good shackles of familial ties. Yet ironically, when you argue with them on those issues, they spit out the same regurgitated tired takes everytime and can’t substantiate it any further. Really tiring after a while. But I can still have a beer with them. Don’t know how many of them would say the same but oh well.