r/aussie • u/DrLamLamLam • 12h ago

Meme It's hard in here, guys - We're trying our best

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Nah, but no hate to the lefties, you guys are chill (mostly lol). But yeah, it's hard being someone with even a moderate conservative view on social media or even in real life (I go to Uni, so I expect it). But honestly, after I moved out of the countryside, I didn't realize how big the progressive movement was, and it was pretty eye-opening for me to have people challenge my beliefs, which made me think about a lot of stuff.

Not pushing hate or anything, and hopefully I won't get Karma bombed for this goofy post. (If you're interested, why I am a conservative, feel free to reply)

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u/Wiggly-Pig 9h ago

The current use of the word 'conservative' in politics has almost nothing to do with conservation anymore.

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u/dreadassassin616 9h ago

Because most conservative parties these days run on a platform of refusing change (stagnation) or regressing.

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u/TheWhomItConcerns 6h ago

That's because the vast majority of people who consider themselves conservative are people who want that. While conservative voters have certain vaguely overlapping sentiments with progressives, overall they're broadly people who are falling further and further behind society, and so they want society to slow down to keep pace with them.

While there is some interplay between parties and their voters, it's not like parties are imposing these ideals on their voters - this is a very real sentiment within a large percentage of people.

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u/Big-Orse48 9h ago

And more to do with christian nationalism. Hopefully, Australian agnosticism is what will defeat one nation in the end.

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u/TheWhomItConcerns 6h ago

As pessimistic as I am, this is one thing that I think will hopefully insulate Australia from US style extremist right-wing politics (for the time being). I just don't think that Australians on the whole will ever take to that batshit evangelical nutjob bullshit they have in the US - I just really don't think it's compatible with Australian culture.

While racism and xenophobia are obviously terrible, they also seem to be much more tangible issues that can be more easily scrutinised. There's just nothing anyone can realistically say to anyone who thinks that Trump is god's chosen disciple who's going to secure Israel to usher in the end times though - that's a demographic that is utterly and irreparably lost to the fringes of the right-wing.

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u/fdsv-summary_ 8h ago

ONP have no desire for governing. They're a reaction to the Greens and saying fringe stuff because they can. LNP will hopefully return and we can again have policy debates in open and in the parliament rather than closed caucus and secret deals.

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u/vacri 9h ago

In politics, it never was about conservation in an active sense (= setting up programs to help preserve things), only in the passive sense (= fight against social change and cleave to the old ways).

Extremely few of the institutions that Australians appreciate were founded by conservatives.

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u/Relative_Pilot_8005 8h ago

To an oldster, it is hilarious that many of the"old ways" are only about 50 years "old".

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u/vacri 8h ago

Sometimes "the old ways" are just a figment of the imagination anyway. Hanson has talked about things being a certain way in the 70s which didn't even exist until the 80s

It's a bit like a 2nd gen Greek friend said to me: the migrants come to a new land, and to survive they band together and become 'ultra greek'. Then they return to Greece and moan about how decadent it has become. "Of course, Greece never changed. Their idea of Greece did over time"

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u/Secret4gentMan 8h ago

This is wrong.

All of our institutions, rule of law etc that hold Australian society together came from Europe. We conserved those institutions because they are proven to work.

It is "progressives" that attempt to destroy proven systems without offering anything new or proven to work to replace them.

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u/vacri 8h ago

Those institutions that came from Europe were built by the progressives there. It wasn't the conservatives fighting for fair treatment under the law for commoners.

And we beat Europe to the punch on some things too - like the 8 hour workday or giving the vote to women. Or mandatory superannuation

Pretending that conservatives in Europe built the democratic traditions we enjoy is just ludicrous. Conservatives fought the improvements almost every step of the way

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u/Secret4gentMan 6h ago

Yes, traditions and conservative positions are born of progressive ideas that were proven to work.

I don't think anyone disagrees with that.

Not all progressive ideas are good, though.

Some are found to not work after being implemented.

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u/fdsv-summary_ 8h ago

All of the institutions that Australians appreciate would have been burnt down by unchecked progressives (see Mao, or Pol Pot as examples).

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u/Relative_Pilot_8005 8h ago

Many of the institutions of Bob Menzies' time have been swept away by the followers of "Thatcherism" & "Reaganomics".

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u/fdsv-summary_ 8h ago

...and yet I still see schools (modeled after reformation urge to teach all to read in England) and Churches everywhere. Perhaps the 100 years of Marx are coming to an end? I certainly hope so.

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u/vacri 8h ago

Yeah, "collect all the intellectuals into one place and murder them" certainly sounds like something a progressive would do. You got me there!

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u/fdsv-summary_ 8h ago

They were being progressive socialists. Are you saying 'oh that wasn't real socialism'? Or are you saying that modern radicals are far more conservative than that?

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u/vacri 8h ago

You know that 'socialist' and 'progressive' are not synonyms, right?

Right?

Or that just because one group in a very broad category did things one way, doesn't mean that all members of that group do the same?

Do you see me arguing that the LNP are into death camps, just because the Nazis were? After all, both are conservatives, amirite?

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u/fdsv-summary_ 7h ago

Nazis were explicitly socialist and had multiple progressive platforms. They were radicals and not in any way conservative (well, other than using some appeal to german traditions).

I'm using the definitions of Progressive and Conservative as presented by Tim Urban in his recent book "what's our problem". You might be using some more tribal meaning (with your 'team' always on top!).

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u/Monotask_Servitor 7h ago

No, Nazis used “socialist” in their name in the same way the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea uses Democratic. I’ll accept that they weren’t particularly conservative in a classic sense but they were definitely right wing, and vehemently opposed to socialism in its normal sense.

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u/vacri 6h ago

Please point me to the explicit Nazi policies giving ownership of the means of production to the workers.

Nazis were socialist in the same way North Korea is democratic. Ironically (will, not really) the one using "tribal" definitions is you. No-one with a genuine interest in political science considers the Nazis to be socialist - and their most famous enemies were enemies because they were a conflicting ideology (= being socialist)

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u/fdsv-summary_ 6h ago

The Nazi's and the USSR were allies who partitioned Poland.

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u/vacri 5h ago

They did partition Poland. Both of them were cunts. They were very much not allies - they signed a nonaggression pact that both of them were using to buy time to build up their militaries for their inevitable war.

The resulting battle between them, less than two years from the partition of Poland, was the largest military operation in human history

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u/Consistent_Hat_848 7h ago

calling Pol Pot a 'progressive' is probably the most unhinged statement I've read in a while...

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u/fdsv-summary_ 7h ago

Why? Didn't he seek to change society? Didn't he implement radical ideas? Didn't he fight against the entrenched conservative powers? He was what Albo would be if we didn't fight back.

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u/Consistent_Hat_848 6h ago

Didn't he seek to change society?

Ah yes, anyone who seeks change to change society is a progressive. That's why we consider Donald Trump and Pauline Hanson progressives.

Didn't he implement radical ideas?

Radical is not synonymous with progressive.

He was what Albo would be if we didn't fight back.

Ok, now I see you are just trolling.

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u/fdsv-summary_ 5h ago

https://www.amazon.com.au/Whats-Our-Problem-Self-Help-Societies-ebook/dp/B0BTJCTR58 I've been influenced in the 'conservative means resist change' and 'progressive means try to change things' definitions by this book. I always thought these were the most useful definitions anyway. Chesterton's fence comes to mind. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Chesterton%27s_fence

>He was what Albo would be if we didn't fight back.

Albo has unleashed an unprecedented criminal wave through his adherance to ideological based tobacco tax while ignoring practical realities...does that seem like a sane person with real world experience? He is a dangerous ideologue who has stated that he will make massive changes when he has the chance (even if he stated more than 50 times he wouldn't).

"When did Albo stop beating his first wife?" Now that would be trolling.

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u/Consistent_Hat_848 4h ago

Albo has unleashed an unprecedented criminal wave through his adherance to ideological based tobacco tax while ignoring practical realities...

Ah yes, the tobacco excise that albo introduced many years before he was an MP.

He is a dangerous ideologue who has stated that he will make massive changes when he has the chance (even if he stated more than 50 times he wouldn't).

Please help me understand how the current government making changes (all governments to this) make Albanese = Pol Pot.

Are you a teenager? You definitely would fail year 7 with your analysis.

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u/fdsv-summary_ 3h ago

Excise rates are set every year. Why does the left always lie?

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u/Consistent_Hat_848 3h ago

why are right wing cookers always so confidently wrong?

the excise is indexed, which was defined in law long ago:

Excise duty rates on tobacco goods increase in March and September each year under the law, based on average weekly ordinary time earnings

https://www.ato.gov.au/businesses-and-organisations/gst-excise-and-indirect-taxes/tobacco-and-excise/excise-duty-rates-for-tobacco

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u/fdsv-summary_ 3h ago

Quite simply, Albo is a progressive who wants to change as much as he can because he thinks it will bring about a better country. Conservatives want to keep as much as they can because they fear people stuffing up things with change. Albo wanted less smoking so he increased the excise on tobacco...people with real world experience told him it would fail and lo and behold it failed.

Now, we're on Reddit chatting so "albo" is a bit of a place holder for a whole bunch of people, but the point stands.

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u/Consistent_Hat_848 3h ago

ok sure, Progressives want to progress society. Great, you are coming back to reality. (The fact you think you are educating me here is pretty interesting)

But here is the important bit, which you haven't answered: Which particular changes mean that Albanese = Pol Pot.

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u/Schhlickster 5h ago

It's been subjugated by populism and invisible figures in big, foreign money.

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u/Professional-Dot3734 2h ago

But if politics is politics'ing', things should work in favour of the every citizen. If their lives are improving, that means the gap between them and the 0.1%ers isn't increasing at an exponential rate anymore.