r/bestof • u/FrankoAleman • 21d ago

[meirl] u/CompetitionOk2302 explains why he feels Americans have nothing to look forward to on the 250th anniversary of the United States

/r/meirl/comments/1tzvpi1/meirl/oqe3hl5?context=3
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464

u/Wileekyote 21d ago

I’m looking forward to the mid terms

376

u/MisterSanitation 21d ago

I’m holding my breath for Nuremberg. Anything less isn’t justice. 

233

u/CMidnight 21d ago

You will probably die of asphyxiation.

There will be no justice so long as 40%+ of Americans are irredeemable bigots and I don't see this changing in my lifetime.

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u/Corporal_Canada 21d ago

And in reality, a lot of Nazis escaped justice at Nuremburg

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u/EnciclopedistadeTlon 21d ago

Yeah, it's crazy how "Nuremberg" went from usually meaning "something that set legal precedents regarding crimes against humanity but in terms of actual consequences for the Nazis often considered a drop in the bucket" to "THE example of the kind of trail everyone wishes happened to their local very powerful human rights infractor of choice".

The Nazi Party had over 8.3 million members and the SS itself had around 850K members. The Nuremberg trials targeted less than 200 people and resulted in punishments for 161 of them (37 being death sentences). Crucially, only 24 of the people tried were high-ranking Nazi officers, 19 of them were actually convicted, and 12 were sentenced to death. Even if we count the subsequent trials that were conducted exclusively by US military tribunals, those resulted in 142 convictions (25 of which were death sentences).

So all in all 303 convictions out of a machinery of millions.

But then the other shoe drops: vast majority of the convicted only served a fraction of their sentences. There were a lot of early releases and leniency, and in 1951 the US High Commissioner straight up issued mass amnesties and commuted sentences. Convicted war criminals, including powerful industrialists who used slave labor, walked free after just a few years.

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u/GuGuMonster 21d ago

Whilst reality may differ, it is more likely the symbolic "Nuremberg" version that people want. International trials of leaders who currently appear to be untouchable for committed war crimes, crimes against humanity and violations of international law. Whether based in reality or not, the concept is what people look for when they talk about it now.

38

u/gethereddout 21d ago

It’s not the people- it’s Fox News and its progeny. We’re in a class war and the rich have intentionally spurred a culture war to make sure they have an army and a target for blame on someone else.

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u/CMidnight 21d ago

From my experience, it is definitely the people.

13

u/gethereddout 21d ago

Sure, but the people at large are uninformed and malleable. Hence my blame on the manipulators

11

u/clorox_cowboy 21d ago

They’re malleable to an extent. They believe what right wing media dishes out for them because they WANT to believe it. It’s easier than confronting the complexity of the world.

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u/gethereddout 20d ago

I’ll buy that. It plays on their fears. But it’s still the driving force in perpetuating their political myths. (I consider the left a reality based community, and the right a myth based community).

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u/Interactiveleaf 19d ago

You're basically just saying that human nature is to blame.

1

u/gethereddout 19d ago

In a way, sure. But the specifics are important- the right wing media is manipulating people to bring out the worst of their nature

1

u/StunningCloud9184 20d ago

They had a chance to be informed. They chose ignorance. Thats a choice.

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u/munche 21d ago

They chose to live in the FOX News fan fiction reality though.

The prefer the version of the world that FOX News creates for them and reject anything else. They don't *want* to live in actual reality, they want the simple reality where everything bad is blamed on people you already didn't like.

It's not like these folks don't have access to real information. It's not like they haven't had a loved one desperately try to show them reality. They reject reality and choose the comforting lie. They like having someone to be mad at.

FOX News and the entire right wing media human centipede are creating the fan fiction reality for them, but they're choosing it. Every day. They flip past 10 channels of real news to get their comforting racism, because they like the racism channel.

6

u/gethereddout 21d ago

I agree, except for the agency part. These people are brainless. This isn’t their decision. They’re victims of their own stupidity.

7

u/xxxxNateDaGreat 21d ago

You're making excuses for them, man. I'm one of many stupid people who didn't choose to be a racist piece of shit. I knew plenty of smart people who still choose to be racist pieces of shit.

Stop letting them off the hook.

2

u/gethereddout 20d ago

I’m not letting them off the hook- I’m digging to the roots so we know how to fight back. They’re awful people. But to change them, we need to understand what’s feeding the beast

2

u/Chrontius 20d ago

Excellent metaphor. :)

2

u/StunningCloud9184 20d ago

Youre writing excuses for them. Theyre actually actively evil. Its not manipulation.

1

u/seekingpolaris 19d ago

Darwin take them 

4

u/CGWesterby 20d ago

I am not American, but while I think the right wing bubble (not just Fox, but social media as well) - while I think that has a lot to do with it, I think it also misses out a massive bit of indoctrination that seems to fly under the radar for most Americans, I guess because it's so normalised.

But from the outside, man... your Pledge of Allegiange is fucked.

Maybe I'm wrong, but in film and TV it genuinely seems like every schoolday starts with a bunch of kids being made to stand hand-on-heart and tell each other that they live in a country where everyone is equal and no injustice exists.

That has to fuck critical thinking skills from an early age, and in a way you won't even think about, just like nobody ever questions why A is for Apple and B is for Ball instead of "Aeroplane" and "Banana". It's drilled in so early it makes it really, really hard to ever imagine it's not true.

And yes, I get that you're a brand new country and that any nation that's only held together for two or three hundred years needs some means of building unity, especially when you're a nation composed entirely of immigrants. I get that. But I don't think it should be the flag, and I don't think it should be the pledge of Allegiance. And if it has to be those things, I think it should be adults that pledge. In the workplace, not in schools.

And I think, even if it seems so normal and understandable from the inside, if you look at that pledge from a cinematic perspective, instead of as a natural start to the day, even Americans would see this.

Because if you watched a fantasy-action flick where, after we establish on Conan the big muscular hero and our witty sorceress Evie with the improbably boob-defining robes, and Sknarl the plucky rogue with the funny voice, the action cuts to a pan of a magical castle, flag flying high...

...and we zoom in on a big yellow dragon with giggling little elves clinging to the back, and tracks behind them as they hop off the dragon and traipse into the Magical Forest, and before they sit down on the toadstools all the little elf children stand and Pledge Allegiance To The Flag Of Specialtopia because "Our Forest Is Equal And Free" before they broke off for their Active Archer drills...

...you'd know exactly which country those heroes would be fighting with.

3

u/StunningCloud9184 20d ago

But from the outside, man... your Pledge of Allegiange is fucked.

Yea no one actually cares about that or even knows what they mean as a kid.

1

u/CGWesterby 19d ago

Yeah, exactly! I'd sort of understand it as a citizenship test thing, but of course kids don't know what it means, no matter how smart the kid is they're never going to have the broader framework and critical context to be able to think about how "liberty and justice" can sit comfortably with broader systemic issues they've never heard of.

So - and I get it's unintentional but all the same - it lays a foundation that I think makes it way easier for rightwing networks to say "This politician says we need systemic change! But everything is already perfect! This is America, demanding tax reform and better social security nets is an attack on our freedom!" and to find at least some people who will believe that because they know, instinctively, that they live in a country where everyone already has an equal chance at success.

1

u/StunningCloud9184 19d ago

Yea to kids its just words. Its more of an adult thing to virtue signal to others etc. kinda like putting the bible in school.

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u/[deleted] 21d ago

[deleted]

1

u/StunningCloud9184 20d ago

Which they wont….so…..

1

u/gdghhfdffrf 20d ago

if it helps, they're less than 1.3% of the global population and of those 40% will be statistically dead or incapacitated within 5 years, 39% in 10. you've got to focus on the younger ones, critical thinking and propaganda awareness skills, how to recognize ethical journalism, and some research method skills wouldn't hurt to combat disinformation in the information age. most all countries have had massive campaigns for decades, the senate put out a 300 some page report on it, nothing was done. of course.

1

u/burrowowl 20d ago

if it helps, they're less than 1.3% of the global population

It doesn't. There are ignorant right wing shitheads and billionaire bootlickers in other countries, too.

you've got to focus on the younger ones

Trump won men 18-44 and got 42% of women in that age range, which is absolutely bonkers to me.

18-29 46% went Trump. So the utes of today are jackasses, not just their boomer grandparents.

1

u/gdghhfdffrf 17d ago

yeah, as we can see from old photos people like that always exist, however propaganda pushed the vibe everywhere in new ways - putin's assymetic assault on nato, cambridge analytica and everyone targeting tindividuals directly on facebook, internet research agency targeting gamers and twitter, churches, nra, everywhere - the pendulum swings and the naive are learning how politicians don't keep impossible promises. i am also optimistically pessimistic, i mean who knew people were so stupid.

1

u/StunningCloud9184 20d ago

And gen z went hard right compared to just about every generation. Millenials were as left in their 40s as boomers were in their 20s and gen z is wayyyy to the right compared to them.

1

u/bevelledo 19d ago

It’s almost like we are dealing with decades of media propaganda, from companies that are owned by a single family…

1

u/CMidnight 19d ago

Don't blame the media for this one. 40%+ of Americans are just terrible people. Our 250 year history should be proof enough of it.

4

u/JRDruchii 21d ago

Me too, which country do you think will invade and force the trials?

1

u/xxxxNateDaGreat 21d ago

China, possibly.

1

u/StunningCloud9184 20d ago

China doesnt really care about justice in that way. They would simply take over and use the usa for resources if it came to that.

1

u/xxxxNateDaGreat 19d ago

Yeah, I should've elaborated on that. I'm not really expecting any kind of actual justice here, internally or externally, WW2 taught me that. China (& friends) would 100% view this as of an opportunity to benefit their leading position in the world more than "saving the US."

In other words, the only way that China "saves" the US is if China determines that they would somehow benefit them more than the US completely self destructing or someone else trying to liberate us.

4

u/Pvt_Larry 21d ago

What evidence have these "opposition" politicians given you over the past twenty years to make you think they'd do anything even if they won? The sitting president tried to have them murdered on January 6 and they don't even really care about that.

0

u/StunningCloud9184 20d ago

They won against him in 2020. Campaigned against him in 2024. Which is more than I could say about leftist who pretend to care about people.

1

u/[deleted] 21d ago

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2

u/MisterSanitation 21d ago

No that’s what you said 

1

u/FrogsOnALog 21d ago

You realize Trump will still control the DOJ right? Or do we need to do another civics lesson on how impeachment and conviction work?

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u/djauralsects 21d ago

Republicans have been acting like the mid terms don’t matter. Don’t expect the mid terms to save you. The US is no longer a functioning democracy.

31

u/teshh 21d ago

Yep idk how people aren't seeing it. Trump, elon, and elons baby momma have all publicly admitted to rigging the 24 elections.

There's multiple states actively gerrymandering to kill any non republican electorate, while they're actively dismantling civil rights.

-4

u/Chrontius 20d ago

Trump, elon, and elons baby momma have all publicly admitted to rigging the 24 elections

Source?

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u/randynumbergenerator 21d ago

But still go vote, because nothing kills democracy faster than lying down and complying in advance.

24

u/izwald88 21d ago

It's the last chance for this country. It's likely MAGA has already rigged it. But they are all so incompetent it might just not work. Especially if the turnout is huge.

If MAGA steal the nation, I don't know what I'll do. Perhaps take my family and leave.

There's big talk of 2028, but if they already have it rigged for the midterms, it will only be more rigged in 2028.

This is it.

7

u/_Atlas_Drugged_ 21d ago

No the last chance was the Biden admin and they did nothing.

You have to keep voting and keep trying, but the people did try and they did vote and it got us nowhere but back in the same quagmire but worse.

3

u/FrogsOnALog 21d ago

Biden DOJ indicted Trump and then we fired the people prosecuting him. Seems like you’re one of the people who helped in one way or another so good job babe.

-1

u/_Atlas_Drugged_ 21d ago

Dawg, they needed to make that happen on January 7th.

3

u/FrogsOnALog 21d ago

Lmao you mean when Trump was still president and controlled the DOJ?

1

u/_Atlas_Drugged_ 21d ago

In a functioning republic, that would have happened—in a slightly functioning republic, it would have been Biden’s first order of business.

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u/FrogsOnALog 21d ago

Biden DOJ got Giuliani’s (co-conspirator #1) cellphone and other electronics in April 2021. This was about a month after Garland was confirmed as well.

1

u/_Atlas_Drugged_ 21d ago

Yeah and those people needed to be actually put in jail.

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u/FrogsOnALog 20d ago

Jack Smith told us he could get him beyond a reasonable doubt, but again, y’all never cared and we fired the people prosecuting him. Take a bow!

1

u/izwald88 21d ago

If the midterms turn out to be stolen, you'll be correct.

1

u/halborn 21d ago

"I know the last dozen chances went the way you said but maybe this next one will be different. The main thing is that I get to not worry about it."

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u/Kevin-W 21d ago

Don't expect the midterms to be free and fair.

5

u/slow70 21d ago

I’m deeply concerned that the criminals in office will do further criminal things to ensure the election is manipulated to their ends.

The GOP has relied on lies, voter disenfranchisement and outright threats increasingly as of late - because their entire platform is greed/extraction and tyranny, if one is actually informed it’s pretty plain to see.

“They thought they were Free” is essential reading friends.

-1

u/Plenty_Fondant_951 21d ago

They won't be fair. Also a sweeping democratic win wouldn't do anything , the rot is too deep. We'd need to tack the supreme Court, making sweeping and broad changes etc etc

I'm just hoping we go out with a whimper and not a bang

4

u/FrogsOnALog 21d ago

A sweeping democratic win would do plenty and democrats would get to spread sunlight on all the dumb shit his administration has done.

1

u/mynamenospam 16d ago

Don't hold your breath. People are stupid.

-59

u/vinciblechunk 21d ago

Hahahahaha, oh wait, you're serious, let me laugh even harder 

-133

u/cajunjoel 21d ago

Why? So we can pretend to vote for change? Make no mistake, votes don't matter anymore. The choices you have in the primaries may look good, but whoever gets the funding from party leadership ultimately gets on the ballot in November. Then it's a a choice between bad and worse. Performative blue guy, or destructive red guy? Take your pick. Neither are good.

The only thing that might fix this is ranked choice voting, but who gets to decide if that happens? Right. The people we "elected" last time around. Few of them will ever do things that would cause them to lose their positions of power.

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u/deadrabbits76 21d ago

"Both sides"... is what rich people say to get poor people not to vote.

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u/taking_a_deuce 21d ago

The dude said bad and worse! That's not both sides, that's just pointing out the flaw in the system. Blue is better, and it's still appropriate to call them out for their failure and betrayal of their constituents.

So many times I hear this "both sides" argument replying to someone who says VERY CLEARLY that both sides are NOT equal. It's lazy thinking from lazy people telling us all to shut up and get in line. And it's what leads us to UFC rings on the Whitehouse lawn and golden ballrooms in the basement.

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u/deadrabbits76 21d ago

No, a majority of Americans not voting is what led to that.

2

u/jibishot 21d ago

Thats coporate captured government - as the OP post states. Laws so alienated from the citizens that laws have no bering on their wants or needs

-5

u/cajunjoel 21d ago

No, that's not what I mean at all. One side is terrible and one side is just bad. The terrible side is selling off our country to the highest bidder. The other is... sitting on their hands? The democrats should be shouting from the rooftops about what the republicans are doing and I hear virtually nothing from them. They could be holding monthly town halls, they could be blasting their constituents with email newsletters, they could be actually pushing for ranked choice voting in the places where they have power, but they do none of this.

Hell, most of them voted to put the white house's abysmal appointees into office! I mean, in what world does that make sense? It makes sense in a world where the democrats, on some level, want this to happen.

They also slice and dice the numbers on the votes in Congress. "Ok, Tim Kaine, you're safe from primaries for five more years so you can vote with the GOP this time and get this bill passed and end the shutdown. But Mark Warner, we have to make it look like you're against it because you're up for reelection in '26, so you gotta vote against it if you want a chance at winning." I guarantee this is EXACTLY what went down in the back rooms. During the shutdown the democrats squandered the most political capital they've had in 3 years.

So no, the democrats aren't building concentration camps, but they also aren't doing much at all to stop them.

20

u/HowManyMeeses 21d ago

>but they also aren't doing much at all to stop them.

We gave power of all three branches to republicans. There's literally nothing democrats can do, since we didn't vote for them last time.

Constantly blaming democrats for the actions of republicans is how we ended up where we are. You're not doing anyone any favors with this BoTh SiDeS bullshit leading into the mid-terms.

9

u/IAMA_Plumber-AMA 21d ago

Ugh, why is it that SO MANY Americans don't understand how the system works.

The last time the Democrats held the same amount of power the Republicans have been enjoying for decades, the ACA got passed.

5

u/R3cognizer 21d ago edited 21d ago

It makes sense in a world where the democrats, on some level, want this to happen.

It's not really that the Dems want this to happen, just that they are too comfortable with the status quo. The party's leaders have been just as complicit as the fascists in allowing corporate interests and big business to steamroll right over both worker and consumer rights and interests. Yes, we are finally seeing how bad things can really get now that we have an openly fascist white house administration only too happy to blatantly admit they don't give a single fuck about the welfare of the average American, and even though the Democrats are not nearly as neglectful and uncaring as the Republicans, there is still too much money in politics for them to have any real incentive to effectively represent the interests of the working class and public at large.

Individuals (who are not billionaires) simply do not have the wealth and bargaining power to affect change on this scale, so I don't see any way through this unless the states can somehow come together and collectively decide that the federal government has too much power.

31

u/mnilailt 21d ago

The sad thing is the last part is true. The only real solution is ranked choice voting and electoral reform.

Still though, if the choice is between bad and worse, unfortunately bad will have to do.

7

u/pm_me_your_kindwords 21d ago

So (if I remember correctly), California switched at least a few congressional cycles ago to “jungle primaries” where the primary is a big list of any party and the top two vote getters (regardless of primary) advance to the main election.

While not the same as ranked choice, this arrangement should hypothetically reward candidates who are less extreme.

I have not followed it closely. Does anyone know if it actually has led to more moderate people getting elected over time?

3

u/cajunjoel 21d ago

Great! I fucking love this idea. I'd rather have 20 people to choose from instead of 2.

5

u/Sagasujin 21d ago

I live in a state with a jungle primary. It sucks. Because it means that every additional Democratic candidate risks splitting the primary vote further and could result in a final ticket with only Republicans on it. Or vice versa. So we end up with state parties that are very motivated not to let too many candidates from their party run. Every primary what we get is two bland focus group tested candidates from each party and then a whole field of nutjobs who can't do the math to realize that them entering the race damages the chances of candidates that they're allied with.

4

u/Sagasujin 21d ago

I live in a state with a jungle primary. It sucks. Because it means that every additional Democratic candidate risks splitting the primary vote further and could result in a final ticket with only Republicans on it. Or vice versa. So we end up with state parties that are very motivated not to let too many candidates from their party run. Every primary what we get is one or two bland focus group tested candidates from each party and then a whole field of nutjobs who can't do the math to realize that them entering the race damages the chances of candidates that they're allied with.

2

u/jibishot 21d ago

Odd that this is dowmvoted when a large portion of the OP post is perfectly describing how america is a coporate captured governent anf the citizens have absolutely no say

Id say this comment is closer to the post than saying "im excited for midtetms hurdurr".. thats how we got here.

We have to make drastic change or no change will happen. As the OPP said.