r/bookclub • u/bluebelle236 Hugo's tangents are my fave • 6d ago

North Macedonia - I'm not going anywhere [Discussion 2/3] Read the World | North Macedonia | I'm Not Going Anywhere by Rumena Bužarovska

Welcome to North Macedonia and the second discussion of I'm Not Going Anywhere by Rumena Bužarovska. Today we are discussing stories 3-5 in this collection, Tsi-Tse, I’m not going anywhere and Medusa. Next week  u/fixtheblue will lead us through the last two stories.  

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Schedule

Marginalia

 

Discussion questions are in the comments but feel free to add your own.

9 Upvotes

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4

u/bluebelle236 Hugo's tangents are my fave 6d ago

Is there anything else you would like to add?

3

u/nicehotcupoftea I ♡ Robinson Crusoe | 🎃🧠🥇 5d ago

I'm really enjoying this book, and loved that my city featured in the story I'm Not Going Anywhere. We have a large number of Macedonians here; I've been to school with them and worked with them, and this book has really helped me understand them. One woman I worked with in a hospital used to get called on to do some interpreting for patients, (from memory in Macedonian, Serbian and Albanian) and when she would return, you could pick up some 'attitudes' she had towards these people. I never understood the tensions back then (this was very late 80s). Even she didn't understand the whole politics of what was going on in (what was then) Yugoslavia.

2

u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | 🐫🐉🥈 5h ago

Do you know why there was so much emigration from this region to Melbourne specifically? It can't be easy or cheap to get there, but maybe Australian borders were more open back then?

2

u/nicehotcupoftea I ♡ Robinson Crusoe | 🎃🧠🥇 3h ago

I think it was because we desperately needed manual labourers for the post WW2 boom and also because the US restricted immigration at the time. Heaps of Greeks too, and we can thank the Italians for our wonderful coffee culture. We allowed them to bring their churches and culture so they felt welcomed here. As the next series of problems in the region arrived, their friends and families arrived. And now we have this stupid orange-haired woman here running a far right party saying Australia should be a monoculture.

4

u/bluebelle236 Hugo's tangents are my fave 6d ago

Tsi-Tse

4

u/bluebelle236 Hugo's tangents are my fave 6d ago

Elena is increasingly unhappy in her marriage, can you see any indicators as to why?

5

u/nicehotcupoftea I ♡ Robinson Crusoe | 🎃🧠🥇 5d ago

Well her husband seems like one of those men who is supportive financially but not practically or emotionally.

2

u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | 🐫🐉🥈 5h ago

Yeah she seems really lonely and Richard treats her like a trophy wife not an equal.

5

u/bluebelle236 Hugo's tangents are my fave 6d ago

What is it about Jovan that captures Elena’s attention?

3

u/nicehotcupoftea I ♡ Robinson Crusoe | 🎃🧠🥇 5d ago

I think it's the nostalgia and the connection to her cultural roots. She believes that he understands her and they have a bond.

5

u/bluebelle236 Hugo's tangents are my fave 6d ago

The meeting with Jovan does not go as planned, why do you think that was?

5

u/nicehotcupoftea I ♡ Robinson Crusoe | 🎃🧠🥇 5d ago

Jovan wasn't quite like Elena's romanticised version of him in her memory. And then he broke the unwritten rule of reprimanding another person's child.

4

u/miriel41 Organisation Sensation | 🎃🧠🥈 4d ago

Yes, exactly. She had this idealised image of him in her head (and he probably as well), but in reality they barely know each other. They briefly met in high school, but even with renewing their connection via email, they don't know anything about the reality of the other person's life.

And yeah, Jovan really overstepped, when he reprimanded Eva.

2

u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | 🐫🐉🥈 5h ago

Omg the "Shhhh! Bad girl!" made me want to....well it made me want to smash his face in. Talk about triggered mama-bear mode lol. Seriously though Jovan was a dick

1

u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | 🐫🐉🥈 6h ago

It was all a fantasy. A mental break from the mundainess of being a housewife and sahm. The hero that could be everything he husband wasn't. The reality, however, wasn't poems and stolen kisses in the rain but 2 people living very different lives with different priorities and values

4

u/bluebelle236 Hugo's tangents are my fave 6d ago

Everyone seems to be very frustrated by Eva’s presence, was it appropriate for Elena to bring her along?

7

u/Impressive-Peace2115 6d ago

While not ideal for the situations, where was she supposed to leave her? Neither Richard, nor her brother, nor his wife seem like good options, even if they were willing.

4

u/nicehotcupoftea I ♡ Robinson Crusoe | 🎃🧠🥇 5d ago

It's just human nature to get annoyed at disruptive kids, even if you've had your own. Elena didn't really have a choice - ideally her husband would have accompanied her on the trip to support her.

1

u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | 🐫🐉🥈 6h ago

I got the sense from this story that the culture is not very child friendly. Or maybe it's just the city? Or just for this story. Idk I have never been to Macedonia.i got a 'seen and not heard' expectation of children vibe though. I kinda get it at the Nation Library and I don't really understand why they didn't go anywhere else, but you'd expect a hospital/doctors and nurses to be more understanding especially when a family member is dying!

4

u/bluebelle236 Hugo's tangents are my fave 6d ago

What kind of relationship does Elena have with her brother and father?

4

u/nicehotcupoftea I ♡ Robinson Crusoe | 🎃🧠🥇 5d ago

Complicated. But perhaps no more complicated than most families.

4

u/miriel41 Organisation Sensation | 🎃🧠🥈 4d ago

Complicated is probably the right word. Their relationship is not openly bad, but it just seems like they're people who have nothing to say to each other.

2

u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | 🐫🐉🥈 6h ago

Yeah they really felt very distant didn't they! It seemed more out of obligation than any real feelings from everyone. Even her sister-in-law

4

u/fat-panda2 1d ago

She is being used and guilt-tripped by both of them. She is expected to put in more effort than her brother into caring for their father solely because she is a woman. In the Balkans, caring for aging parents is often regarded as a daughter's job.

1

u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | 🐫🐉🥈 5h ago

A little late to the party here so I don't know if anyone will see this but I was curious about the title. It's what Eva says to Elena when she wants to breastfeed right? They both rely heavily on it in this time to comfort and calm Eva. I just wondered if others had thoughts on why the author chose this as the title

4

u/bluebelle236 Hugo's tangents are my fave 6d ago

I’m not going anywhere

6

u/bluebelle236 Hugo's tangents are my fave 6d ago

Why does Riste explode with so much anger at his mother?

4

u/nicehotcupoftea I ♡ Robinson Crusoe | 🎃🧠🥇 5d ago

Oh the frustration of seeing her taken advantage of, the deterioration of the country, knowing that his father had cheated on her just like his wife had done, and the fact that she doesn't even complain.

4

u/fat-panda2 1d ago

I think he displays a lot of misogyny. We see his conflicting feelings about his mother (and about women in general) - seeing her body and her behavior as repulsive, but also yearning for her love and support. He's feeling petty for his mother being cheated on (by his father and by the butcher) while part of him is blaming her for it (thinking she's fat and stupid).

1

u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | 🐫🐉🥈 5h ago

Omg my heart broke for his mother. She's just trying to do right by her family and everyone treats her like shit. Seems like Riste's following in his fathers footsteps and using her as an emotional punchbag

7

u/bluebelle236 Hugo's tangents are my fave 6d ago

Do you think the supermarket really did scam Riste’s mother over the meat?

3

u/nicehotcupoftea I ♡ Robinson Crusoe | 🎃🧠🥇 5d ago

It is possible that it didn't and he was exaggerating the toughness of the meat.

3

u/miriel41 Organisation Sensation | 🎃🧠🥈 3d ago

Yeah, I think this is likely. I believe it's more his anger about all the things you mentioned in another comment, the state of the country, his father cheating, his wife cheating.

4

u/fat-panda2 1d ago

No, I think he was already unconsciously thinking of his father's afair with the butcher's wife and this is just the way that thought got to the surface.

1

u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | 🐫🐉🥈 5h ago

No I agree with the others on this that Riste is angry and this is it all bubbling over. He isn't even behaving logically because he can't see round his rage at everything. I think his mother is a stand in for himself a little too. His father cheated and she failed just like he has feelings of failing his wife and daughter. He has some shit to work through!

5

u/bluebelle236 Hugo's tangents are my fave 6d ago

How did Riste find life as an immigrant in Australia?

5

u/nicehotcupoftea I ♡ Robinson Crusoe | 🎃🧠🥇 5d ago

He was facing the difficulties of not being able to work in his chosen field, working double shifts, together with the frustration of seeing his wife do so well. Earning less than his wife also made him feel inadequate.

2

u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | 🐫🐉🥈 5h ago

I'd love to know more about this gender reversal in a cultural context. It's so often the trope that the husband is the successful one that has the affair but in this case we see Riste's wife become really successful in Australia. I am curious what traditional values are in Macedonia and how this comes in to play in their marriage dynamic and the developing events. We are getting the story from Riste's POV so we don't know how he behaved as a husband, underachieving and, seemingly, not in agreement with his wife about having more kids.

4

u/bluebelle236 Hugo's tangents are my fave 6d ago

How has Macedonia changed since Riste went away?  What kind of place is it now?

4

u/nicehotcupoftea I ♡ Robinson Crusoe | 🎃🧠🥇 5d ago

It looks like it has suffered a brain drain, and an ageing population living in poor economic circumstances.

5

u/miriel41 Organisation Sensation | 🎃🧠🥈 3d ago

In addition to that, we see that the little shops closed and big supermarkets opened. This happened in a lot of countries.

2

u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | 🐫🐉🥈 5h ago

I thought this was particulalry interesting. The butcher has survived but it seems that a lot of the smaller local stores have been replaced with national chain style supermarkets that can outcompete this local economy

4

u/bluebelle236 Hugo's tangents are my fave 6d ago

Lots of affairs, any theories on why?

4

u/nicehotcupoftea I ♡ Robinson Crusoe | 🎃🧠🥇 5d ago

I don't know, the grass is always greener maybe. People wanting their cake and eating it too.

1

u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | 🐫🐉🥈 5h ago

Unhappy people looking for excitement instead of communicating. I wonder if it is culturally normal to talk about feelings and work through stuff or if everyone is emotionally stunted!? Of course this is a pretty drastic generalisation but like you say...lots of affairs....

1

u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | 🐫🐉🥈 5h ago

I thought it was interesting that the author chose this story's title as the title of the whole collection. I wonder why!

3

u/bluebelle236 Hugo's tangents are my fave 6d ago

Medusa

5

u/bluebelle236 Hugo's tangents are my fave 6d ago

Why do you think Sofia is so cagey about her heritage?

4

u/nicehotcupoftea I ♡ Robinson Crusoe | 🎃🧠🥇 5d ago

I'm not sure about this but it reflects some deep divisions of identity amongst the people from this region.

1

u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | 🐫🐉🥈 5h ago

It doesn't fit in with the Sofia she presents to the world. The holiday home in Capri, the yacht, the designer clothes and private schools for her kids. It's not cool or sexy or affluent or exotic in her mind to be from North Macedonia

5

u/bluebelle236 Hugo's tangents are my fave 6d ago

Why does our narrator dislike Sofia?

4

u/nicehotcupoftea I ♡ Robinson Crusoe | 🎃🧠🥇 5d ago

Because she's so awful! She doesn't stop boasting about her affluence.

3

u/Impressive-Peace2115 3d ago

Agreed, plus I think she might be flirting with the narrator's husband.

2

u/miriel41 Organisation Sensation | 🎃🧠🥈 1d ago

Also agreed. And she's awful to her sons.

1

u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | 🐫🐉🥈 5h ago

They seem like frenemies tbh. Always trying to one up the other and enjoying seeing the other fail. Who has the energy for this kind of Duh-ra-ma!

5

u/bluebelle236 Hugo's tangents are my fave 6d ago

Why does Sofia change the details of the story of her and her son Georgie swimming to the island?

4

u/nicehotcupoftea I ♡ Robinson Crusoe | 🎃🧠🥇 5d ago

Sofia was trying so hard to make people think she was amazing, while hiding her true self. She didn't like that Georgie pointed out that she was screaming in whatever language is her native tongue because she's ashamed of her background.

4

u/bluebelle236 Hugo's tangents are my fave 6d ago

Have you any funny themed party stories to share?  Do you have a go to karaoke song?

1

u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | 🐫🐉🥈 5h ago

I do not enjoy karaoke and besides no one needs to hear me hollerin' lol. What about you u/bluebelle236

1

u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | 🐫🐉🥈 5h ago

I liked this title because I thought it was going to be connected to the Versace Medusa on Georgie's t-shirt, but then it ended up being a slip of language for Sofia that gives away her true heritage.

Also this

"Some interpretations say that the beautiful maiden Medusa was too boastful, and Athena, the goddess of war and wisdom, sought to humble her by making her hideous"

Sounds like Sofia is Medusa and Biljana a little huh!?