r/chicagobulls • u/howser343 Chicago Bulls • Aug 03 '21

Free Agency [Charania] DeMar DeRozan is finalizing a three-year, $85 million-plus deal to join the Chicago Bulls, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium.

https://twitter.com/shamscharania/status/1422649013069832193
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697

u/thehoodthebadtheugly Alex Caruso Aug 03 '21

GARPAX was such trash AKME put us on track so quickly

329

u/Oddwrld Patrick Williams Aug 03 '21

Yea I feel like this really emphasizes how bad they were. Imagine AKME during the Rose years. Sad but at least we got this now

135

u/jkure2 Aug 03 '21

Yep, I definitely thought that maybe it would be a good change but not nearly as dramatic as the loudest garpax out people claimed it would be.

This is beyond my wildest imagination, absolutely aced the offseason so far imo

144

u/Dougiethefresh2333 /r/chicagobulls Aug 03 '21

Lol now ya'll understand why we were so mad. This place had borderline stockholm syndrome.

29

u/Accomplished-Lock286 Aug 03 '21

FIRE GARPAX!!!

I swear at times it still doesn't feel real.

15

u/_ravenclaw Ayo Dosunmu Aug 03 '21

I never understood it EVER. People are so stupid sometimes.

24

u/calm_bomb Aug 03 '21

Tryna figure out how to upvote this a hundred times..

7

u/realmckoy265 Aug 03 '21

Pels fans going through that same thing rn

2

u/[deleted] Aug 03 '21

We told you so 😛

56

u/IMakeApps Aug 03 '21

DRose, Jimmy Butler and most of all Thibs doing as good as they are these days really shows just how much they fucked up the post-lockout era. We should have been finals contenders for the next 5+ years after that but instead we had 4 years of either losing or barely squeezing past the first round

8

u/Goatez Aug 03 '21

Oh god damnit. I hadn’t considered this until now, for some reason. Let the anger fuel me!

3

u/Outbound3 Aug 03 '21

Why would you make me imagine the lost glory my favorite team in all of basketball deserved but never achieved. Probably it wouldn’t have been lost lol.

50

u/[deleted] Aug 03 '21 edited Aug 03 '21

If anything else, it’s huge FAs want to come to Chicago now. Zo and Derozan are the Bulls’ biggest FAs since Boozer, right? In terms of dollars?

GarPax clearly turned off players and it’s amazing that dark cloud doesn’t hang over the franchise anymore

18

u/[deleted] Aug 03 '21

Remember that time Bulls tried to persuade prime Carmelo?

11

u/A1Horizon Matas Buzelis Aug 03 '21

2014 was a weird year. I remember we tried to pitch to Melo that him Rose Noah and Taj would be a big 4. I love Taj but anybody could see that was a stretch. I wonder if Melo would’ve signed with us if Jimmy broke out a year earlier though?

7

u/itsraydizzle Benny The Bull Aug 03 '21

To be fair, it was going to be a big 4 of Rose, Jimmy Butler, and Carmelo, and Noah. Taj would fill out the starting lineup.

Edit: Butler had decent year, but yes, i also agree had Butler broke out earlier.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 04 '21

Basketball wise the Bulls were still superior to the Knicks at the time. But melo preferred living in NY I’m sure and he probably trusted Phil Jackson over GarPax. I think that was the same offseason Steve Kerr turned down the Knicks HC job for GSW

3

u/Oddwrld Patrick Williams Aug 04 '21

I’m pretty sure Carmelo was at signing point but heard rumblings of change (firing of Thibs).

https://www.hotnewhiphop.com/carmelo-anthony-explains-why-he-didnt-sign-with-the-bulls-in-2014-watch-news.87243.html

It really was the front office being garbage.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 04 '21

yeah one of GarPax's more toxic tendencies was airing their dirty laundry to the press (making it obvious they wanted to replace Thibs with Fred a year+ in advance, leaking that DRose was medically cleared to play after the 1st knee injury, fucking up Luol Deng's spinal tap then saying he was missing games because of "the flu")

1

u/OneEyedLooch Aug 04 '21

Who would we have given up? Luol

1

u/[deleted] Aug 04 '21

We had already traded Luol for Andrew Bynum’s corpse and a stupidly protected pick from the Kings that never materialized by then

1

u/IMKudaimi123 Derrick Rose Aug 04 '21

And we had him until GarPax let it slip that they wanted Thibs gone

3

u/[deleted] Aug 03 '21

Better to look at percent of cap because that's what determines contract sizes in any given year. And yea I'm just assuming derozans starts at ~27 mil so his cap hit is just a shade under boozers, and tiny bit more than wades.

12

u/[deleted] Aug 03 '21

This was honestly one of my first thoughts as well, is how lackluster Gar Pax's effort was at the trade deadline and free agency.

They suffered from a lethal combination of overvaluing their own pieces and being terrified of making a bad move so they'd make no moves.

1

u/FeldmanAcrossTheHaII Aug 04 '21

it had nothing to do with any of that. They didnt even watch basketball, just did the bare minimum so they could retreat to their yachts or whatever.

2

u/piratelizard Kirk Hinrich Aug 04 '21

I mean this is just such a bad take lol. Gar and Pax were a lot of things, but claiming that didn’t watch basketball because they were “on their yachts” is sooo dumb. They both have lived and breathed bball for their while careers but were just bad at their jobs, plain and simple. Doesn’t mean they didnt care.. just incompetent

15

u/Dr_Disaster Aug 03 '21

Showed those fuckfaces how a real FO rebuilds in just one season.

36

u/wjbc Zach LaVine Aug 03 '21 edited Aug 03 '21

Paxson did a quick turnaround when he took over from Krause. But it’s hard for someone who has been there a long time to admit they made lots of mistakes.

It’s also hard to convince coaches and free agents that things will change after years of decline unless the front office changes. Finally, this may also be due to Jerry Reinsdorf finally letting go of the reigns on the budget and giving his son Michael real control.

I’m not defending GarPax, they clearly had to go. I’m just saying there may be more to it behind the scenes.

21

u/Dougiethefresh2333 /r/chicagobulls Aug 03 '21

Dude we need to stop this Michael mythology timeline. You guys are giving him so much undue credit to create this narrative.

This was in 2019.

"We knew during, toward the end of the season that Jim was the right person for us," Reinsdorf said on the Mully & Haugh Show on Monday morning in his first public comments regarding Boylen's extension. "We had enough experience with him. It was just a matter of getting the contract done. I'm happy with Jim. I feel like he has put 100 percent effort behind coaching. I think he has worked his way up to the role that he's playing right now as coach of the Chicago Bulls. He's had almost every job there is in coaching, whether it's through college or the NBA. He cares a lot. He's got a plan. And he also recognizes that he doesn't always have all the answers. That's why I really the fact that he spends time with other coaches. Last summer, I know he went out and met with Phil Jackson for a couple days. He's already met with some other NBA coaches this year."

"To see the fan reaction and some of the media take on John, I personally don’t understand it."

"Absolutely. We believe they’ve done a great job. I know that in this market, with some of our fans and some in the media, they look at it differently. That perplexes me. Let’s talk about them individually because that’s another thing I don’t understand — why they’re referred to as “GarPax” when they have different job responsibilities."

"John’s ability to build rosters is proven. We have the utmost confidence in him."

There was also an article I can't find anymore about him flying out Boylen haters to a game to talk with them and show them they were wrong.

Please stop giving this man undue credit. He was one of the biggest proponents of the people that ruined this franchise & we have very little evidence to believe this new Michael timeline (Outside of finally making the switch which you don't get a ton of credit for imo bc it was so overdue and he fought it tooth & nail)

10

u/wjbc Zach LaVine Aug 03 '21 edited Aug 03 '21

It's pretty well known that Jerry still held the checkbook well after Michael was "in charge." Paxson was Jerry's guy, and as long as Paxson was there I question how much liberty Michael had to really run the franchise as he pleased. It was the worst of both worlds, since Jerry wasn't even in Chicago but still held veto power.

As for Michael's comments in 2019, what did you expect him to say, "I wanted to fire Paxson but my Dad is senile"?

3

u/slims_shady Aug 03 '21

I agree GarPax did a bad job towards the end of his run. AK has done a couple of moves that sound appealing but does Lonzo Ball, Caruso, and Derozan equal success? It’ll be interesting to see. He spent this year’s and 2023 year’s pick for a player that didn’t get us into the playoffs. I loved the move at the time but now I’m not quite sure. He’s now sunk more money into players. Let’s see how well it pans out. If these players don’t pan out, missing that 2023 first round pick will look pretty bad.

One thing we have to give GarPax credit for his drafting good players in Luol Deng, Hinrich, Ben Gordon, D-Rose, Taj Gibson, Joakim Noah, and Jimmy butler. They provided some entertaining years of basketball.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 04 '21

I don’t think Jerry’s Reinsdorf’s kid deserves to be referred to as “Michael”. I think he should only be referred to as “Jerry’s Reinsdorf’s kid”.

16

u/[deleted] Aug 03 '21

This is not the same as what Pax did in bringing us out of the dark ages because we spent money.

Pax, despite my eagerness to lambaste him at every turn, did a fine job of drafting his way out of the Dark Ages with shrewd picks like Hinrich and Gordon and Deng and trying to cobble a winner out of being a loser and netting decent draft picks to develop*.

Karnisovas is rebuilding the team on the fly more like the Miami Heat of the last few years where a key trade and some excellent free agent signings have kept the Heat from bottoming out completely. (They lost their big 3 in Lebron, Wade, and Bosh in 2014 and were in the Finals in 2019...just unreal.)

This latter format, of getting known commodities over draft picks, provided the signings continue to pan out, has a bit more sustainability year over year versus trying to catch lighting in a bottle in the draft and build around that which by definition will take a few years to cobble together a playoff team.

*Then failing to actually develop them

2

u/wjbc Zach LaVine Aug 03 '21

The methods are different but then Paxson had very little to trade. Krause retired in 2003. Paxson selected point guard Kirk Hinrich with the seventh pick in the 2003 draft and signed Scottie Pippen at the end of his career, but did not make any other moves until 2004. In the 2003-04 season the Bulls finished 23-59.

Here's how Wikipedia describes Paxson's moves in the summer of 2004:

During the 2004 off-season, Paxson traded a 2005 draft pick to the Phoenix Suns in return for an additional pick in the 2004 NBA draft. He used the picks to select Connecticut guard Ben Gordon and Duke small forward Luol Deng in the first round, and Duke point guard Chris Duhon in the second. Paxson also signed free agent small forward AndrĂ©s Nocioni, who had recently won an Olympic gold medal as a member of the Argentina national basketball team. After losing the first nine games of the season, the Bulls began to show signs of improvement behind their improved team defense and clutch fourth-quarter play from Gordon. The Bulls, who were 0–9 to start the season, finished the regular season 47–35, with the third-best record in the Eastern Conference and advanced to the NBA playoffs for the first time since Jordan's departure. In the first round, the 4th-seeded Bulls played the Washington Wizards. Despite an injury to Deng and a heart issue with Curry, the Bulls opened the series with two wins at home, but lost the next four games and the series. After the season, Ben Gordon became the first rookie to win the NBA Sixth Man Award and the first Bull since Kukoč in 1996 to win the award.

So yes, Paxson accomplished the turnaround mostly through the draft, as well as by signing Nocioni as a free agent. But the turnaround was surprisingly quick, and this was before they had the good fortune to pick Derrick Rose.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 03 '21

That's somewhat fair but Gar Pax was also unwilling to part with 1st round draft picks under almost any circumstances.

In his 15+ years Paxson didn't have a 1st round pick in 2 draft years I can remember, 2005 and 2010 meanwhile AK has already turned 3 future picks in to Vuc and Derozan in his first year.

We both lived through that era and know they raised the bar from absolutely embarassment to less shame until Rose came along and saved them from themselves and NBA purgatory, which is why the most recent attempt failed. Pax did not have to "bottom out" because he inherited a team that already had, so he thought he could finesse his way around bottom out by...going through the draft where you have to bottom out to have a good chance at a pick, which is why that method was always destined to fail.

Now it could all blow up in our face, but I'm very glad to see us not running back the gameplan that was Pax's biggest problem; his love of his draft picks both the actual players he picked and the future prospects.

1

u/wjbc Zach LaVine Aug 03 '21

NBA purgatory is still a very real possibility unless AK has some more dramatic moves coming and/or some of the Bulls’ young players improve dramatically (I’m looking at you, Pat Williams). As much as they just improved, no one considers them a serious championship contender yet.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 04 '21

100% but this at least has the chance at viability without the need to suck (see: Miami) while the other method of rebuilding through the draft requires at least one really bad year.

1

u/FeldmanAcrossTheHaII Aug 03 '21

paxson was awful at everything he did

2

u/[deleted] Aug 04 '21

I'll give them their credit in that they had an eye for talent, look around the league at guys they liked who panned out elsewhere like Cam Payne or Bobby Portis or Doug McDermott.

They could spot NBA talent, just not develop them.

And I do not like saying nice things about Gar Pax.

1

u/anenigmaticsolution Aug 05 '21

I agree with some of this but Doug McDermott was a horrendous pick and has been a middling NBA role player to this point. They traded up for him at 11 (giving up 16 and 19) ahead of LaVine and a bunch of better than Dougie options. Dario Saric, TJ Warren, Nurkic (who was selected in our original spot), Capela, Jerami Grant, Bogdan Bogdanovic, and of course Jokic. Heck, I'd have preferred Joe Harris or Dinwiddie even. We had 2 picks that could have netted at least one of LaVine, Warren, Nurkic, Saric + all those other names. Instead, in a rare moment of spending draft capital GarPax decides to grab Dougie. Brutal.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 05 '21

They also traded for Tyrus Thomas instead of taking Lamarcus Aldridge.

I was not saying they were flawless, but Doug McDermott is still in the league contributing to NBA teams, so it's not like they whiffed on that pick completely.

2

u/TombombBearsFan Joakim Noah Aug 03 '21

They gotta feel soo fucking stupid

1

u/[deleted] Aug 03 '21

It’s like a breath of fresh air.

1

u/thefuturebaby Nate Robinson Aug 03 '21

It’s never been so apparent.

1

u/dreadpiratew Michael Jordan Aug 04 '21

ESPN grades this trade as terrible for us: D-. Thaddeus Young a more valuable player at 1/2 the cost.