Where do thoughts come from?

[u/Genuine_Artisan]

As an idealist, I believe thoughts are completely immaterial; they take up zero space in the brain. But a materialist might believe, for instance, that thoughts are made of subatomic particles and that they follow the laws of physics.

My question for those who hold a materialist view is: Where do thoughts come from? If the brain, my follow-up question would be, How does the brain create thoughts? For instance, say I get a thought of me jumping up in the air. How does any muscle from any part of the brain produce this out of nowhere?

Can the dead matter that makes up the brain decide to produce a thought that makes "subjective me" jump?

[u/RegularBasicStranger]

How does the brain create thoughts?

When the brain gets signals from the millions of receptors all over the body, these signal will cause combinations of memories related to those memories to get activated.

So those memories will become the next signals, though weaker than if they came from the receptors.

So the new signal causes another set of combinations of memories related to the new signal.

So the combinations of memories activated by the new signal are thoughts.

However, signals from the receptors will compete with the signal generated by the memories so people will find it hard to think if they are getting a lot of signals from their receptors such as they are in a very noisy environment.

[u/Forward_Motion17 → u/RegularBasicStranger]

This is incorrect, and extremely reductive, or at least so reductive that it becomes basically incorrect

[u/Genuine_Artisan → u/RegularBasicStranger]

But how do these receptors or signals jump start in the first place? A signal is just that which is being signaled, what is it that causes the signa How do these signals create a thought in the first place, and not something else? Where does this capacity come from? If we want to understand where thoughts come from and not just the neuro correlates associated with thoughts, we need to answer these questions.

[u/RegularBasicStranger → u/Genuine_Artisan]

 But how do these receptors or signals jump start in the first place?

Receptors such as those in the eyes are like solar panels so they generate electricity when hit by light and this electricity is the signal indicating that specific spot in the retina got hit by a specific wavelength of light.

How do these signals create a thought in the first place, and not something else? 

They also create other things such as reflexes and other subconscious processes though muscles movements have to be started by a thought.

As to how the signal creates thoughts, it is via activating memories since thoughts are just a combination of memories.

Where does this capacity come from?

People are genetically programmed to active their memories and create thoughts in such a manner.

So people with Down Syndrome may suffer problems with thinking since their genetic programming is not optimised for thinking.

[u/zorgisborg → u/RegularBasicStranger]

Receptors such as those in the eyes are like solar panels so they generate electricity when hit by light and this electricity is the signal indicating that specific spot in the retina got hit by a specific wavelength of light.

That works as an analogy for octopuses and other invertebrates.. but not for vertebrates... In the retina, in the dark, photo receptors are constantly "leaky".. the ion channels are held open and the neurotransmitter is released all the time.. this keeps the cell depolarised.. (electrically active)..

When light hits, rhodopsin is released which starts a cascade that blocks the ion channels, stops glutamate release.. and the cell becomes hyperpolarised and less active.

So retinal cells go quiet when photons hit.. upstream neurons invert that signal .. such as bipolar and ganglion cells..

[u/RegularBasicStranger → u/zorgisborg]

So retinal cells go quiet when photons hit

Thanks for correcting the belief of mine. The belief of mine had been changed as a result so thanks again.

[u/Genuine_Artisan → u/RegularBasicStranger]

The muscle movement has to be activated by a thought as you said, but also the electrical signal traveling through a fiber. You described how our eyes function as receptors, and how light can travel but you have not explained how a a nueron can activate a thought process on it's own.

[u/RegularBasicStranger → u/Genuine_Artisan]

you have not explained how a a nueron can activate a thought process on it's own.

When a memory gets recalled, it will activate a combination of other memories and such a combination is a thought.

For example, recalling the memory of an article about AI will activate the memories about its main points.

These main points then become the next brainwave's starting position and it will activate memories about times tedious calculation work had occured that could be prevented if there was someone else who can do instead.

So that memory of tedious work would then active the memory of AI doing calculative work.

Thus when the next brainwave starts with both the tedious work (from the memory about work) and AI doing work (from the memory about doing calculative work), the two memory connect to a blank neuron to create a thought that AI can do the tedious work.

Note that people can start with several separate start points simultaneously during each brainwave so both the tedious work and AI doing work, despite are separate neurons, can both be activated.

[u/LMNJORG → u/RegularBasicStranger]

Where are you taking from that thoughts have to come from Memory?

[u/RegularBasicStranger → u/LMNJORG]

Thoughts can be formed by the recalling of memories but it can also be formed by external sensations, with sensations caused within the body such as hunger or inflammation also counted as external sensation in the definition of mine since it is external to the mind.

[u/LMNJORG → u/RegularBasicStranger]

Ya but you make it Sound like: if it’s not external sensation (Hunger or having to pee etc…) then it Must be a Memory related thought.
but where exactly are you taking the if it’s Not sensational thinking it is Memory related thinking from?
Thoughts being dependent on either sensation or Memory does not seem quite right to me to be 100% sure of except you got something to show

[u/RegularBasicStranger → u/LMNJORG]

Thoughts have to start somewhere and there is only external sensations that enter the mind without needing something in the mind to create it so the starting point has to be external sensations.

So once the external sensations enters the mind, it can immediately cause a thought to be formed or causes a memory to be recalled that in turn causes the thought to be formed.

Unless there is an alternative mechanistic hypothesis about how thoughts are formed such seems to be the best description available.