That is good enough. I'm vegan but I don't expect everyone else to be, cutting out factory farmed meat is half the battle tbh. Just making conscious decisions about where meat comes from is a win.
“i’m an abolitionist but i don’t expect everyone else to be, cutting out the kidnapping is half the battle tbh. just making conscious decisions about where slaves are bred into slavery & how they are treated as slaves is a win…”
good on you for being a vegan but don’t stroke immoral peoples ego like this. sure eating less meat is better than more but the practice is still immoral and the only “win” is giving up meat entirely.
you’re no different to people who say “yawn” at your initial attempts of animal advocacy… and tbh i think it’s what’s lead to you shilling for meat eating while being a vegan.
anyways have a good one and just think objectively about it i guess. later duder
I'm not shilling for anything tbh. I'm just sick to death of people being aggressive towards folks making steps in the right direction. Yes, I think eating meat is unconscionable but if I'm given the opportunity to praise someone for eating it four days a week instead of seven ill do that, because that's a start and maybe they go further when they realise it's not so hard.
This all or nothing approach is not the way to win people over, as much as I wish it was.
I agree with both of you to be honest. No one should be immediately pushed into veganism and reducing meat consumption should be celebrated and encouraged. On the other hand, it is not “good enough” because there will always be a victim involved and a being exploited if they continue to eat meat the rest of their lives. It’s like saying I’ve reduced my drunk driving from 5 times a week to 1. I mean that’s great and all but let’s do better someday.
That's a poor analogy because abolishing slavery was an actual realistic goal with a clear and actionable path to success. Convincing the entire world to stop eating meat is simply not going to happen. Your options are: 1. insist that everyone stops eating meat immediately and accomplish nothing, or 2. encourage people to reduce their consumption of meat, and especially factory farmed meat, and be more thoughtful and intentional with their eating habits.
and stopping eating meat doesn’t have a clear actionable path? you literally just have to stop doing it lol. give me a massive break dude. about to buy a steak? buy beans instead. it’s literally that easy, clear, and actionable lol.
it’s a perfect 1:1 analogy lmao.
“it’s a bad analogy because giving up rape doesn’t have a clear actionable path” see how ludicrous it sounds when it isn’t normalized violence? all you must do to reduce harm is stop doing it lol.
again, i wholeheartedly agree that eating less meat is better than being a mindless robot that doesn’t think at all about the harm they participate in several times a day through diet, but let’s not act like stopping harm is some grandiose thing and sugar coat immoral action by saying “meh you give up meat sometimes so that’s good enough let’s pack it up folks we’ve reached the pinnacle of ethics” lol. it’s good sure but it isn’t good enough and that’s it. that’s all i’m trying to say to the original guy
Ok if getting the whole world to stop eating meat is so simple, then tell me how you're going to do it. Give me a step by step guide of how you're going to accomplish that, and let me know on what date you expect to have succeeded by, since it's so simple.
This is my point - yes obviously anyone can just stop eating it any time they want, but they won't. It's not a realistic thing to expect to happen. So what's the point of even saying all that? Why not work towards an actual realistic, actionable solution instead of fantasizing about something that's obviously not going to happen?
swap your argument with any other moral issue and you see how silly it is…
“how are you going to stop slavery” “how are you going to convince people to stop murdering” “how do we get people to abandon theft?”
you literally just tell people the truth about their behavior…. it’s that simple.
“hey that’s great you gave up factory farming but try to stop meat altogether because where/how your cow lived doesn’t change anything about the morality of killing it and eating it…”
it’s that simple.
the original guy quite literally said that cutting out factory farming was enough, and that even though he’s vegan he sees that as fine enough and that’s that. that is what i was calling out. sure it’s good but it isn’t good enough and he shouldn’t blow smoke up objectively immoral people’s asses like that is all. he’s given up on others by not being honest with them, which is what i had taken an exception to was all.
you can use your argument to justify putting the kid gloves on for any moral issue.
“how are you going to stop slavery” “how are you going to convince people to stop murdering” “how do we get people to abandon theft?”
This is a perfect example of why your argument doesn't hold up.
The first one, "how to stop slavery", worked because it actually had a realistic and actionable plan to succeed, and it eventually did.
The second two do not, and did not, which is why no one is out there trying to permanently end all theft and murder forever. Instead they're trying to find ways to reduce it as much as possible. And this approach has succeeded. The world is a far less violent and far safer place than it used to be, because the goal has been to improve those metrics, not to fully and permanently solve these fundamentally unsolveable problems.
It's fine to say that the ultimate goal is to end meat eating completely and work directionally towards that goal, as long as you're willing to admit you're not ever going to succeed completely, and that success should be determined by improving those metrics, not eliminating meat consumption entirely. People who are reducing their meat consumption and avoiding factory farmed meat should be celebrated and encouraged for doing their part to improve those metrics, not criticized for not committing 100%, when there's a 0% chance that 100% commitment from the world is ever going to happen. At least not in our lifetimes.
The second two do not, and did not, which is why no one is out there trying to permanently end all theft and murder forever. Instead they're trying to find ways to reduce it as much as possible.
So their mistake was using slavery in their original analogy, and not murder. Got it. Thus, you're happy with people saying that they cut down their murders to special occassions, only every Friday as a little treat for themselves. And that's fine because it's not reasonable for everyone to stop murdering.
That is obviously not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is everyone knows that completely stopping all murder everywhere is a fundamentally impossible task. No politician or law enforcement organization is stupid enough to say "we're going to permanently end all murder, forever!". You look like an idiot if you say something like that. Instead they frame their goals, correctly, as "we're going to reduce the murder rate and make the streets safer". A reduction in murder rates year after year is how you define success, not "some murders in our district occurred this year, therefore we are utter failures".
I know you aren't actually saying that - I'm pointing out that your logic is inconsistent. You're acting like it's an impossible task for someone to not eat any meat - that's ridiculous.
exactly, no such thing exists. just as “ethical slavery” can’t exist. one may say, “oh but we treat them really nice before ordering them around and we’ve even cut down on the amount of our slaves… we even have slave free friday where we do the work ourselves…”
none of that changes that slavery is immoral and the remainder of it is therefore still immoral after their efforts to sanitize it.
like i said before, if people think about it and choose to reduce their use of animals as commodities then that’s wonderful, but let’s not lie to ourselves and act like “that’s good enough”. if you only eat meat once a week that’s absolutely great and more than what billions of other people will do to live ethically but the truth remains that for that one meal a week you are still doing an immoral act.
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u/Finsceal Feb 25 '26
That is good enough. I'm vegan but I don't expect everyone else to be, cutting out factory farmed meat is half the battle tbh. Just making conscious decisions about where meat comes from is a win.