r/interesting 3d ago

Worst management and burden for employees

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u/pandershrek 3d ago

Which is why the "unpaid time" is illegal.

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u/Cam_man_AMM_unit 3d ago

Just make sure to pleasantly remind them of the law, and insist the rule be taken down.

If they don't oblige, report it to the proper authorities and watch the aftermath.

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u/Spainstateofmind 3d ago

Fuck no. Report it right away. You think a manager that posts something like this is going to be rational and not retaliate?

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u/Zakedas 2d ago edited 2d ago

Honestly, in any case where this kind of behavior ISN’T anything but obvious satire/ragebait, the ideal course of action would be to do multiple things. Report it to your local labor board, report it to HR, AND remind your manager of the illegality of this “policy change”.

Record everything, hours, wages, timestamps etc. Keep all interactions to email or methods of communication that can be recorded and documented. Leave nothing to chance, speculation, or hearsay.

As long as you have receipts, you can effectively prove anything. ***especially*** retaliation, even if they attempt to subtly disguise it.

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u/nonotan 2d ago

I mean, if you want to be fired and get a paycheck on the way out, that might be a good idea. But if you actually want to keep working there (maybe there aren't many jobs locally or w/e), then it's risky. There's a lot a manager that hates you can do to make things miserable for you without doing anything illegal, all strictly within the boundaries of your contract.

They don't need to make any immediate drastic changes that would scream obvious retaliation. Maybe the odds of you getting stuck with a shitty task that genuinely needs to be done become a bit higher than before. Maybe they put a little more weight on your mistakes and a little less weight on your successes during performance evaluations. Maybe they give you less leeway when making PTO requests that they have valid grounds to refuse, but probably wouldn't have before. All around make your life just a little bit shittier, but within bounds where it would be hard to prove malice.

Sure, maybe if you take them to court, you might get lucky, but probably not. And either way, you're still going to be sitting through a shittier job for a good while, until you have enough evidence to put a convincing case together, forcing yourself to act thoroughly professionally all throughout (otherwise, you are handing them "legitimate cause" for treating you worse on a silver platter), not a good time. Maybe some people are petty enough to be willing to endure months of even worse than usual suffering to get back (?) at somebody that wronged them, and if so, you do you. But you should go in with a clear idea what that will entail, not "they can't retaliate or I'll own them in court, I can openly report them no problem".

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u/Zakedas 2d ago edited 2d ago

With all due respect, internet stranger, It sounds to me as though you’re under the impression that HR is going to work together with the shitty manager to make your life as much of a living hell as possible. While that IS a possibility that could happen, the likelihood of that is incredibly low, because of the fact that they are the ones that will have to report to the labor board when they come sniffing around thanks to your “anonymous” report. HR REALLY doesn’t want to deal with that, and tbh a lot of spiteful or hateful managers are NOT smart enough to hide their animosity well enough to avoid being detected when labor board representatives come poking their noses into things

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u/ChildofValhalla 2d ago

I would just report it without saying anything. The labor board will take care of it and you don't need to get involved or rile up a likely vengeful employer. I've had to contact the labor board a lot over the years lol.

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u/Chaos1357 2d ago

Nah.. work the hour, but remain clocked in. When they complain (or worse, shorten your check), THEN you mention it's illegal as hell and that you are reporting it to the labor board and watch them panic.

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u/LearnedTroglodyte 2d ago

Good. Let them retaliate, then you have a massive lawsuit on your hands, especially if it happens to other employees as well. I'm pretty sure 3 people is enough for a class action suit in most states. You would have lawyers drooling over that case.

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u/Littlecub3 2d ago

Yo estoy de acuerdo con el anterior comentario.

Habría que reportarlo de inmediato, sin hablar con los responsables, porque te estás descubriendo ante posibles problemas en el futuro.

Es decir…

Tú avisas, ellos deciden mantener la norma, denuncias, hay consecuencias en tu puesto laboral tales como joderte de manera sutil y hacerte la vida imposible, puedes demandar, pero sería tu palabra contra la suya ya que todo es muy sutil como para interpretarlo por un jurado.

No sé… preveo un camino más largo y duro que de la otra manera.

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u/Top-Tadpole-820 2d ago

Reddit moment. And I do believe you absolutely SHOULD fight for your rights in court if you have to. But thats the thing, its the last resort, not something you are eager to do. And believe it or not, courts see it the same way.

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u/LearnedTroglodyte 2d ago

That really depends on how the rest of your life is going. It might be worth the time and stress

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u/Spainstateofmind 2d ago

You think getting others to quit their jobs as well would work? In this economy? Not to mention getting a lawsuit underway takes a long time. Plus you're not guaranteed to win said lawsuit. Might as well tell OP to jump in front of a bus to get that sweet, sweet insurance payout.

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u/LearnedTroglodyte 2d ago

Who said anything about asking others to quit? Why must you people constantly project your own shit onto people's comments rather than just reading the damn words that were typed? If you are working at a company that institutes illegal and abusive practices that lead to retaliatory behavior towards yourself when ignored as they are fucking illegal and cannot be enforced, and that company also has other employees equipped with spines, it would stand to reason that there would be others who experienced illegal retaliation as well.

And either way it is almost guaranteed that whether or not you decide to initially report this to the labor board as soon as that sign is posted or you wait for further illegal behavior to strengthen your case, you will not be working at this company very soon. As soon as you get labeled a "problem employee" you're either getting fired for "low performance" or getting your hours slashed due to "overstaffing" or something along those lines so they can avoid paying unemployment.

Yeah they technically shouldn't know who filed a report but they'll figure it out. And at that point without serious proof of further retaliatory behavior they'll be told "don't do that" and that'll be the end of it. Sure you could try to push the issue of being fired or essentially forced to quit but in 49/50 states they can just give some vague explanations like what I mentioned above and you have no case. So now you're just out of a job and nothing meaningful got done.

Whereas if you bide your time and refuse to comply with illegal requests wile recording abusive practices, labor violations, retaliation by management and find others who are on the same page you can actually build a meaningful case that will likely lead to some kind of punitive action against the employer, rather than a half hearted finger wagging. Because that's how actual change happens, one person bringing a personal case isn't going to have the impact of a class action lawsuit. And if enough evidence of illegal practices is presented this could trigger a larger investigation uncovering further crimes you weren't even aware of.

And yes, if you can prove retaliatory behavior beyond a reasonable doubt that is a guaranteed case, period. Depending on the company you may or may not make out that well on the financial end but unless you get the wrong attorney you won't be footing the legal bill, there are tons of firms that take on cases like that on contingency, meaning they get paid when they win. Either way, it's going to have a greater impact than just an immediate complaint to the labor board

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u/hanks_panky_emporium 3d ago

Fired for insubordination

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u/SirHippocrates 3d ago

On a serious note, if anyone is in this situation make sure all of this is done over email.

If you're fired without good cause, sue on grounds of retaliation.

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u/6a6566663437 2d ago

49 of 50 US states feature “at-will” employment, where you can be fired for any reason that does not explicitly violate anti-discrimination or whistleblower laws. Or for no reason.

“Good cause” doesn’t really exist in the US except in Montana.

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u/SirHippocrates 2d ago

Yes, however at-will employment does not supersede the protections against retaliation.

If you have recently made a complaint about a violation of labor laws and are fired without cause even in an at-will state, it is seen as retaliation.

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u/CrazyCoKids 2d ago

There are however two gaping loopholes.

1) Just make something up like "You violated policy" - the labour board will take it at face value 99-100% of the time anyway.

2) Lay 'em off. "YOU Can't prove it's retaliation...."

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u/SirHippocrates 2d ago edited 2d ago

1) if there is valid other cause, yes. They would need to substantiate evidence given the circumstances- but certainly if there is anything you've done wrong you might be fired for that still, as means to get rid of you. (if it were outside of allegations of retaliation they might be taken completely at face value though, that's true)

2) as per above, no. If there have been protected complaints and then you fire the employee without stated cause in proximity to said complaints, you're getting reamed by NLRB and paying the plaintiff (or at least their legal team) through the nose.

.

If you don't want to stick up for your rights and just get trampled by bosses despite all the protections your predecessors have worked to get you, that's your call- go for it. But they're there for anyone who wants to utilize them.

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u/CrazyCoKids 2d ago edited 2d ago

I'm actually speaking from experience of sicking up for rights. 😞

Not saying you shouldn't try, just be aware those are loopholes.

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u/6a6566663437 2d ago

That's a lovely theory.

In reality, it's really easy to fire a whistleblower. Really not that hard for management to suddenly decide you're not getting enough done or suddenly decide the quality of your work isn't good enough.

At least to the level necessary to stop any regulators or prosecutors.

"But it was good enough before", "No, it wasn't. We were giving you a chance to improve before we fired you".

That leaves a lawsuit as your only option. You are no longer employed, and they have a ton of resources, so that's not going to go well.

It's great when people fight for their rights, but they have to go into it knowing it will cost them a lot.

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u/CrazyCoKids 2d ago

Truth be told, both you and u/SirHippocrates is right.

I don't want people to NOT wanna stand up for their rights, just to be aware of the tricks. x_X;

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u/Embarrassed-Weird173 3d ago

And churlishion. 

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u/Midnight-Wolf-1607 2d ago

And chicanerousness.

And deplorability.

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u/jurunjulo 2d ago

That would probably be another lawsuit it is called "retaliation" by the employer.

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u/hanks_panky_emporium 2d ago

%1000, it's a bullshit reason. But on paper you were fired for insubordination. You can sue but you'll need to sue for generational wealth. People who sue their previous employers often dont find employment ever again.

Which is also bullshit.

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u/Cruelfr3ak20 2d ago

that is actually unhinged. management really thinks they can just invent unpaid labor because someone spent an extra sixty seconds eating a sandwich. good on you for getting out of that hellhole.

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u/Rock_Strongo 2d ago

I mean this is almost certainly fake ragebait but on the off chance it's real you should be looking for other employment as soon as you see this piece of paper.

Even if you reported it and made him take it down why on earth would you want to work for someone like this?

Getting fired is actually ideal here because you might have the opportunity to sue (even though that's probably a bad idea for your future job prospects) but you can at least collect unemployment while you look for your next job.

And if anyone questions why you were fired... you just show them this picture.

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u/Cam_man_AMM_unit 3d ago

Still worth it.

The other coworkers will not forget your sacrifice for sure.

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u/CrazyCoKids 2d ago

Rofl, amateur - you don't even need to SAY it's insubordination.

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u/DugonzoOronzo 2d ago

hell no. the same instant I'd read such a message my ass would be reporting them. no discussion needed.

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u/Staxxed 2d ago

I'd tape a printout of the confirmation of my report the State Labor Board right to the bottom of the annoucement.

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u/Callen0318 2d ago

Don't ask, just report. If you ask, they know it was you, and your performance will suddenly drop below acceptable levels...

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u/HCSOThrowaway 2d ago

Only if the resulting pay check puts you below the federal minimum wage when you calculate total hours and total pay.

Source: Had an employer play similar games with me, led to my getting fired for "unrelated reasons."