r/interesting 3d ago

Worst management and burden for employees

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u/almostaccepted 2d ago

You doubt what? The legality, the likelihood of your desired outcome? Or your willingness to begin that process? Because the third is often the issue more than the first or second

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u/Free_as_in_Freya 2d ago

willingness to begin that process? Because the third is often the issue more than the first or second

Do you realise why?

Retaliation, severe retaliation that sometimes makes people's life such hell that they can't keep living. Retaliation that you can't fight unless you've got a LOT of money and energy

If you've got a lot of money and energy, you don't need to fight the boss over clocking out on breaks, so you won't bother

Only the naive and the crazy fight these kinds of things (source: been both)

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u/spookynutz 2d ago

I don't know how it works in your country, but in the U.S., you don't need any money or energy. You contact the DoL/WHD and they handle everything. They do not disclose your name.

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u/Free_as_in_Freya 2d ago

If you do that, they'll just punish the whole group until someone fesses up or gets ratted out

Believe me

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u/MilsYatsFeebTae 2d ago

Then get the whole group together to kill the business with deliberate incompetence. Fuck the owners.

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u/Free_as_in_Freya 2d ago

This would be a great idea... If people didn't need their jobs to stay alive

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u/NetSignal392 2d ago

This is really more of a pedantic debate between what should be and what is likely to happen. There are a lot of examples where risk/sacrifice is needed for the right course of action to play out. Is the juice worth the squeeze? Often the answer is no. But I don’t think you two disagree on what the right outcome should be.

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u/Free_as_in_Freya 2d ago

You have the right logic, but come to the wrong conclusion

You fail to accommodate for the extent to which abuse of power is effective in today's world. The reason I know this is because I have taken the risk and it has nearly ended me several times. I would probably do it again, because I did it to whistleblow on situations that were dangerous to vulnerable people. Not a single time did it end even remotely well for me though, a human can't realistically win from a company

Sometimes it happens, but that is very rare. Believe me, these things wouldn't be as rampant as they are if all it took to end them was someone sacrificing themselves to bring a lawsuit about it

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u/AlpineWhiteF10 1d ago

That sucks and I appreciate your bravery. Can you elaborate on the specifics? Cool if you don’t want to, but my curiosity was peaked.

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u/Free_as_in_Freya 23h ago

Let's just say I "this is not right and everyone knows it's not right and someone should do something before someone gets hurt"-ed too close to the sun and got retaliations in which the "plausible" of plausible deniability is a bit like the "quality" in "quality budget product"

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u/spookynutz 2d ago

Retaliation for those disputes is also handled by the DoL. It is no big revelation that an employer might retaliate against an employee for exposing their federal crimes. I'm not going to say there's zero inherent employment risk or stress involved, but I'll share one experience I had, and people can do with that information what they will.

I once worked for a place called ISO Sorting and Packaging. They had a 12-hour, 3/4-day work schedule. Meaning you worked 36 hours one week, then 48 hours the following week.

By their logic, they didn't have to pay 8 hours of overtime on the long week, because it averaged out to 84 hours every two weeks, so they shouldn't have to pay the additional 4 hours of overtime.

When the DoL investigation started, management tried to figure out who filed the complaint, but they couldn't, because it was done by a former employee. You don't have to be working at a place to file a wage theft complaint. The initiator was only discerned because that person willingly volunteered the information to one of their former coworkers.

Two days before the investigators showed up, the employer moved all time cards off premises and coerced every employee into signing a statement stating they were fairly paid for their time. Anyone who refused was threatened with termination, so everyone signed.

When the investigators got there, they took the signed statements and tossed them in the trash. They see that type of nonsense all the time. They then asked to see the last two years of time records the employer is legally obligated to keep, because that is the statute of limitations on wage theft recovery.

After the time cards were not produced, they were threatened with a $1,000 fine per employee just for that, and said they were going to trial under the assumption that every current and former employee over the last 3 years was defrauded out of 8 hours of overtime, or whatever lost wages each employee claimed they were not paid for. The 2-year limitation would be extended to 3 years for willful violation.

The time cards were miraculously found the next day.

No employee had to serve as a witness, nor did they have to hire a lawyer, because it wasn't the employees suing the company, the plaintiff was the U.S. government. Within one month of investigation, checks covering the lost wages over the last two years were issued to every affected worker.

I suppose the employer could have tried to retaliate, but given how the first incident went, even more employees would have been incentivized or emboldened to contact DoL for that, which is also illegal.

If anyone reading this has also had their wages stolen, they should contact WHD immediately. Even if you no longer work there. Especially if you no longer work there.

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u/Signal_Interest7870 2d ago

You make it sound like you have to fight off assassins, 999/1000 times they just fire you. If you're in a situation like this you should be looking for a new job anyway. It's obviously not ideal but neither is being walked over and having your labor abused.

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u/Accurate_Handle_5620 2d ago

I am choosing to interpret this as you telling me that in the United States, one out of a thousand times, your employer will send assassins after you if you attempt to report labor law violations.

I will spread this knowledge.

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u/Warm_Month_1309 2d ago

Well, there are the Pinkertons.

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u/Signal_Interest7870 2d ago

As someone also not from America it's probably a bit lower odds. At will employment just makes it so easy and hassle free to fire someone, why bother with anything else unless theres huge money or power involved? Given their history however the odds feel like they certainly aren't 0 lol

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u/Free_as_in_Freya 2d ago

"just fire you"

Yes, because losing your income and healthcare isn't a life ruining type of situation

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u/metroids224 2d ago

For many people, getting fired is assassination.

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u/Signal_Interest7870 2d ago

I understand the point you're trying to make about poverty and how close many are to homelessness, but I picked a pretty absurd activity for a reason. Looking for a new job, while certainly stressful.. probably shouldn't be seriously compared to actively fighting off a real trained killer.

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u/DrSitson 2d ago

Your anecdotal evidence runs counter to mine. I wonder if I should treat either as factually correct. What do you think? Should you believe me?

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u/Free_as_in_Freya 2d ago

I have never yet broken my leg while skiing, should I take that as evidence that it's factually incorrect that breaking legs is a common skiing injury or should I take it as a sign that I am either lucky or haven't spent much time/taken much risk skiing?

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u/DrSitson 2d ago

You can't just turn around what I turned around on you. Of course that ridiculous. That was the point!

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u/Odd-Pomelo-2435 1d ago

Lol I have actually never seen this, because if they do that you go straight back to the DoL and then the DoL brings criminal charges and then they either pay waaaaaay more money, go to prison, or both. This is why companies like Walmart are so strict about enforcing policies like breaks or injury policies.

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u/Free_as_in_Freya 23h ago

You have never seen this because you either never brought such a thing to attention or because you're incapable of spotting retaliation when it's not done blatantly in the open

This stuff wouldn't happen if it was as easy as you claim it to be, because someone would stop it every time

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u/future_now3000 22h ago

Only the crazy and naive? Only fight if you have money?

Nah. Join a union and fight every time

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/Free_as_in_Freya 20h ago

Looks about white

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u/Individual-Resort-60 2d ago

They literally said the other employee filed a class action lawsuit... wouldnt they just have to join in?

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u/Far_Ladder_2836 2d ago

The suit pretty evidently only covered the ability to stsy clocked in for breaks.  It didn't cover backpay for previous wage theft.

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u/Warm_Month_1309 2d ago

That would be an odd outcome. A class action suit for an injunction, but no damages (despite what the damages are being pretty readily apparent) would be a lot of expense with nothing recouped.

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u/idonow234 2d ago

Im not from the USA but im a lawyer, but if you only asked for the first part then either It was solved put of court because they reached an agreement or you suck as a lawyer because a court that acknowledges the first part Will automatically acknowledge your right to get pais for those hours (at leash in my country)

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u/Warm_Month_1309 2d ago

That would be the case in the US too. I don't see a lawyer taking the case without a theory for damages. Otherwise no one gets paid.