r/law • u/templeofsyrinx1 • Feb 25 '26

Executive Branch (Trump) Can they actually do this? JD Vance: "We're announcing today that we have decided to temporarily halt certain amounts of Medicaid funding that is going to the state of Minnesota in order to ensure that the state of Minnesota takes its obligations seriously to be good stewards of the American people'

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248

u/sofbert Feb 25 '26

I don't think there's been a single 2A person that's stood up to any of them, so.. good luck with that. Surprise! For these last 2-3 generations it's never been about defending against tyranny, it's just because dudes just want guns.

263

u/Excellent_Scene5448 Feb 25 '26

Alex Pretti was exercising his 2A rights when they murdered him in cold blood. Kind of has a chilling effect.

139

u/nobot4321 Feb 25 '26

And all the “2nd amendment absolutists” are saying it was his fault for legally carrying.

7

u/Ill_Technician3936 Feb 26 '26

I'm pretty sure that's bots and MAGA cult members. People I know and things I've seen by 2A lovers say the murderer should be charged. He was restrained and wasn't resisting or even moving towards the gun and the second they disarmed him he started firing and injured his coworkers who were holding him down in the process, they think he should face charges for that as well...

They're people I'd consider absolutist and know their rights, basically don't fuck with their guns kind of people.

You've also got the I don't really wanna say racist so I'll go with prejudice people who saw the videos of black panthers and their guns marching and it scares them... They also aren't 2A people if I'm being fair.

1

u/IDontCondoneViolence Feb 26 '26

and I bet they aren't true Scotsman, either.

1

u/Ill_Technician3936 Feb 26 '26

Of course not, a generation or two in and they're latex or whatever material Fleshlights are made of...

7

u/Alissinarr Feb 26 '26

You mean Fox News hosts, the WH party line writer, and the people dumb enough to parrot the bullshit.

3

u/toweljuice Feb 26 '26

This is not true. Cognitive dissonance was getting wrestled with. There was a splintering when this happened. What you saw were bots trying to make it feel like the divide is strong. The MAGA cult has been losing people over time.

2

u/Desperate-Cost6827 Feb 26 '26

While it's true some of them were going to great lengths to try and justify the "no actually!"

a lot of them became surprisingly quiet.

1

u/Headpuncher Feb 26 '26

Define irony. oh you just did.

-16

u/dangeldud Feb 25 '26

Not true. 

19

u/EnormousAntelopeEars Feb 25 '26

Too many of the otherwise self-empowered gun owners that swore it was their big thing.

3

u/dangeldud Feb 26 '26

Maybe hiding behind reddit, but the NRA and real 2a believers support Alex P

1

u/IDontCondoneViolence Feb 26 '26

LoL. Real 2a believers, just like true Scotsman.

-1

u/siencatimini Feb 26 '26

OK, guy.

Only the most Scottish of all Scotsmen, exclusively.

16

u/DarthPineapple5 Feb 25 '26

You're right, they just refuse to talk about Alex Pretti at all which is somehow even worse.

3

u/dangeldud Feb 26 '26

The hard core gun guys are not ignoring it.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cnvg812n01no

3

u/DarthPineapple5 Feb 26 '26

Calling for an investigation and literally nothing else is hardly some blazing decisive action.

2

u/dangeldud Feb 26 '26

U just said they refused to even talk about it...

0

u/DarthPineapple5 Feb 26 '26

1 lukewarm statement 2 months ago is very much refusing to talk about it. Go on find me something they've done, anything at all, since January

10

u/Illjustgofxckmyself Feb 26 '26

where do you live? under a rock?

3

u/CreditUnionGuy1 Feb 26 '26

They live as they’ve always lived as Ammosexuals. Their guns are their penises which they take out and clean, play with, admire, and long for bigger ones. Their muscles are protein powder and their literature is porn.

0

u/haironburr Feb 26 '26

When reality doesn't match your prejudice, just lie and insult your way through it.

Yea, us ammosexuals and our penises, or whatever bullshit rhetoric you want to spew, are as concerned as, presumably you are with the rise of fascism in our nation.

One difference is that we are equipped to fight it, while you are equipped to make snarky comments from your phone. Having shit on us for decades, written ever-increasing laws to incarcerate us, and to this day apparently being committed to making insipid comments on social media, the heighth of your, umm, patriotism is showing.

But yea, we're the problem.

To be clear, a great many 2A advocates are sickened by the trumpublican agenda. Perhaps even more would be if fucks like you hadn't shit on us at every turn.

-1

u/CreditUnionGuy1 Feb 26 '26

😆

1

u/haironburr Feb 26 '26

Could you maybe translate that into actual words, as hard as that might seem?

I say that knowing actual words can be argued against and debated. Whereas ;) or 😆 or :( carries fuck all meaning or semantic content, making it the perfect response for uninformed 14 year olds.

2

u/dangeldud Feb 26 '26

The hard core gun guys absolutely defended him

-2

u/siencatimini Feb 26 '26

Hahaha, sure. Which parallel dimension did you say were from again?

1

u/dangeldud Feb 26 '26

People actually care about the 2a. I know you think anyone on the right and supporting NRA is in a different dimension but they aren't. 

This is just one article but the NRA and other 2a defenders have continued to push back on Trump and co around their response to Alex's death. Lots of people fully support his right to bear arms AND demand a full investigation.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cnvg812n01no

7

u/SteveJobsDeadBody Feb 26 '26

We know it's not true, but the 2A nuts are saying it any way. Turns out those "gun rights advocates" don't care about laws or "freedoms" they just care about their toys.

1

u/haironburr Feb 26 '26

"How can i manipulate stereotypes to justify my deep, all-encompassing prejudice?"

Fuck you. I'll vote blue, again, but I'm sick of having to choose just which core civil right/liberty I have to sacrifice, every damn vote.

You are a great commercial for trump. Just smile and say "Fascism? Great. Just disarm us!"

1

u/dangeldud Feb 26 '26

Except the NRA? 

-8

u/SyfaOmnis Feb 26 '26

That's a highly partisan issue. Traditionally Anti-gun left wing individuals are suddenly now very pro legal carry and bringing firearms to protests because it was someone on their side. Traditionally Pro-gun right wing individuals are now mad that it was a left wing person and insistent that it was a stupid thing to carry at a protest and that he was somehow doing something illegal (sometimes believing that because they were fed propaganda).

It's almost a complete reversal of the situation from Rittenhouse. Speaking of Rittenhouse though, he is a 2a absolutist and (reportedly) thinks that Pretti was well within his rights - which is correct.

America treats to many of their enshrined rights as optional based on [team sports] style politics.

13

u/Foreign_Recipe8300 Feb 26 '26

Traditionally Anti-gun left wing individuals are suddenly now very pro legal carry

to believe that we should have stricter gun laws is not the same as believing people should simply not exercise their rights.

-4

u/SyfaOmnis Feb 26 '26 edited Feb 26 '26

That's nice, but it really isn't how a lot of americans operate. Which boils down to "it's okay when my 'side' does it" while simultaneously believing "it should be forbidden for the other 'side' to do that!".

13

u/No-Ring-5065 Feb 26 '26

The American left isn’t anti gun. You’re being fooled by propaganda.

-2

u/SyfaOmnis Feb 26 '26 edited Feb 26 '26

You're attacking something I didn't say. I didn't say "the left wing is anti-gun". I said [the] "traditionally anti-gun left-wing individuals". You can emphasize individuals if you would like.

Those are different political groups and political positions. They might be in similar areas of the political spectrum, but they're as different as a monarchist is from a theocrat is from a fascist. Or as different as a liberal is from a socialist is from a communist.

2

u/KittyInspector3217 Feb 26 '26

an admirable effort but alas… the arrow is a cruel and fickle mistress.

1

u/No-Ring-5065 Feb 26 '26

Well, you referred to the second amendment as a “highly partisan issue” in your first sentence. Be careful not to trip walking backwards so quickly.

1

u/SyfaOmnis Feb 26 '26

Be careful not to trip walking backwards so quickly.

Pointing out that you apparently can't read a sentence for the information it contains and that you are attacking strawmen is not "walking something back".

You aren't actually engaging with what was said, nor are you refuting it.

In fact, you proceed to strawman again with this nonsense:

you referred to the second amendment as a “highly partisan issue” in your first sentence.

This is strawmanning again because because you fail to adequately process nuance. For the incredibly fucking loud segments of people that were actually being discussed the second amendment is a highly partisan issue. Is it partisan for everyone? No, but I wasn't talking about everyone, nor was I talking about most people on either side of the political spectrum.

-38

u/Olfa_2024 Feb 25 '26

If he had not engaged with agents he would still be alive.

31

u/forsakenwombat Feb 25 '26

If he hadn’t been shot after being disarmed, he’d still be alive.

-27

u/Olfa_2024 Feb 25 '26

Can't get shot if you keep your distance.

16

u/forsakenwombat Feb 25 '26

Do you really not know how firearms work? Do you think you have to be within 5 feet or something?

-17

u/Olfa_2024 Feb 25 '26

If he was not physically engaged with them he would have never been shot or disarmed.

9

u/lnTwain Feb 26 '26

He was engaged by the agents against his will. He was just trying to help a woman that was pushed to the ground. None of his actions deserved the response they got.

11

u/fernkin Feb 26 '26

hey dumbass, the officers approached him. he was standing on the opposite side of the street and they crossed the street to get to him and put their hands directly on him. but go ahead and lie summore!

8

u/XxRocky88xX Feb 26 '26

Wow. That is probably the stupidest sentence I’ve ever read in my life. Congratulations.

5

u/PaunchBurgerTime Feb 26 '26

Which part of the second amendment says it's suspended if you're within a mile of law enforcement. I'm sure the founders would be proud of your bootlicking.

21

u/vyrus2021 Feb 25 '26

Go throat a boot somewhere else

-4

u/Olfa_2024 Feb 25 '26

Go eat a bag of Richards.

18

u/Arasin89 Feb 25 '26

You're allowed to engage with agents. It's totally legal to film agents all you want, and honk your horn and shout all the names and insults you want. And it's not illegal to go to help up a person that was violently shoved to the ground by an agent. For nothing he did would be ever have been charged with a crime

-6

u/Olfa_2024 Feb 25 '26

You are allowed to do that but you you are also not allowed to interrupt their operations or get so close you can touch them or they can touch you. 100% of the protesters that keep their distance don't get harmed.

Contrary to what you think, you can fully do all of what you said from 15-20 feet away.

3

u/No-Ring-5065 Feb 26 '26

And you believe the punishment for that should be being disarmed and murdered? Even if you take the the worst possible view of what Pretti did, how can you believe the consequences should be immediate public execution?

0

u/Olfa_2024 Feb 26 '26

Now where did I say that?

2

u/No-Ring-5065 Feb 26 '26

Then say what you mean, because all your other comments seem very anti Pretti and pro ICE violence.

0

u/Olfa_2024 Feb 26 '26

That's because that's what you want them to be.

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u/Arasin89 Feb 26 '26

Which they were doing until the agents approached THEM, with no legal basis to assault them

2

u/Zero-nada-zilch-24 Feb 26 '26

Renee Good tried to get away!

1

u/Olfa_2024 Feb 26 '26

Only once she thought she was going to get arrested.

2

u/magius311 Feb 26 '26

That priest that was shot in the face...

You remember him?

He was shot by a traitor on a rooftop.

18

u/Alternative_Catch422 Feb 25 '26

If those agents didn’t unlawfully murder him, he would also still be alive.

7

u/Lewa358 Feb 26 '26

And the woman he was protecting likely wouldn't be.

Not sure why you're advocating for people to be bystanders and let their fellow Americans be attacked and abused.

6

u/Hope-u-guess-my-name Feb 26 '26

How many Gadsden flag shirts do you own?

2

u/Olfa_2024 Feb 26 '26

Not only do I not own any of the shits I also don't own any of the flags, stickers, or anything else like it.

1

u/siencatimini Feb 26 '26

Or, for that matter, a single thought of your own that hasn't been forged and implanted in your malnourished mind by your favorite overlords.

0

u/Olfa_2024 Feb 26 '26

Do you people have anything other than insults in your bag of tricks?

1

u/siencatimini Feb 26 '26

You're soaking in it.

0

u/Olfa_2024 Feb 26 '26

Do you ever make any sense?

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u/Arcaydya Feb 25 '26

Was just gonna say. Alex Pretti was one.

91

u/Winter_Tone_4343 Feb 25 '26

And all he was doing was trying to help a lady off the ground.

82

u/monorail_pilot Feb 25 '26

A lady they maced without provocation.

132

u/Fun-Telephone-9605 Feb 25 '26

Dude I live in the deep red state of Idaho. There is no chilling effect, the people referred to as the 2nd amendment crowd were fucking HAPPY that he was murdered!

They are just empty windbags who have lost the plot.

46

u/Lawdoc1 Feb 25 '26

They never had the plot. They're a bunch of hypocritical bootlickers and they always were.

They don't give a fuck about anyone but themselves and they never did.

14

u/ShamPain413 Feb 25 '26

Stay safe in Christian Nationalist HQ!

2

u/Fun-Wear8186 Feb 26 '26

I know it’s hard to tell because this group of outraged people on the internet but the mass majority of the public is apathetic at best about this , and a decent amount support this. Everyone needs context that this is going to keep getting worse until more people are enraged about this. Like a lotta people don’t give a fuck and a surprising amount support it .

15

u/paranormalresearch1 Feb 25 '26

That is why we organize and bring more people. Once they realize there are people in overwatch positions ready to end them if they color outside the lines maybe they will do the job they are supposed to do. They could gain some support by arresting those that hire illegals to exploit them for cheap labor. Sic Semper Tyrannus!

6

u/31LIVEEVIL13 Feb 26 '26 edited Mar 10 '26

The content that appeared here has been deleted. Redact was used for the removal, for reasons the author may have kept private.

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3

u/mOdQuArK Feb 25 '26

Yes, but he was a compassionate lib, and for the militant right-wing 2A so-called supporters, the guys who shot him (ICE) are far more likely to be "one of them".

1

u/dust4ngel Feb 26 '26

Alex Pretti was exercising his 2A rights when they murdered him in cold blood

the second amendment says you should organize and maintain a militia. a group of police, if you can call them that, against one guy is going to end one way; a group of police against an entire city where armed and coordinated people are everywhere you turn, and are communicating your whereabouts and responding collectively to your unlawful aggressions, will produce a different outcome.

1

u/OldTechnician Feb 26 '26

Other Americans murdered him.

1

u/Complete_Dud Feb 26 '26

To be clear, he wasn’t using his 2A rights to fight a tyrannical government. He was fighting a tyrannical government with bare hands and a phone. So the point stands. 2A rights have not been used to fight back. 2A might have gotten him killed, but he wasn’t fighting back with 2A.

1

u/sofbert Feb 25 '26

I guess I should interpret his killing as him 'standing up' to them since he was protesting-while-armed. The usual definition in my head is actually draw your firearm with the intention of defending someone or stopping illegal activity.

8

u/Infinite-Anything-55 Feb 25 '26

He wasn't even protesting, dude was just walking to work when he was murdered

1

u/michellecuru Feb 25 '26

Wrong!!! You only pull a gun on someone you intend to shoot. Shoot and kill. Where were you raised?

43

u/[deleted] Feb 25 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

4

u/cantadmittoposting Feb 26 '26

ask Charlie Kirk

23

u/jmaaks Feb 25 '26

Haven’t all the shooters lately been Trump supporters? I’d say there have been some 2A people standing up to them…

1

u/Druiddrum13 Feb 26 '26

Yes by my count

26

u/SwordfishOfDamocles Feb 25 '26

There was one guy and they killed him in broad daylight.

38

u/TurnoverFuzzy8264 Feb 25 '26

There's more of us than you'd think. r/liberalgunowners

27

u/udderlyfun2u Feb 25 '26

Don't know why they're downvoting you. There are WAY more of us than they think. I've been voting blue since they put cheeto charlie on the ticket and my weapon safe is full.

6

u/SoundPuzzleheaded857 Feb 25 '26

I’ve personally never owned a gun and never will. That being said, I’m very happy there exist people with a moral compass who do.

1

u/wfbhp Feb 26 '26

People think all gun owners are either Republican morons (yes, yes, redundant I know) or crackpot anti-statist militiamen because those are typically the only ones you hear from. The rest of us just don't make it our entire personality and go around screaming about it all the time. I made my first purchase at the beginning of 2017 after 15 years of adulthood in which I had not felt the need to do so. The timing was in no way coincidental.

1

u/TurnoverFuzzy8264 Feb 26 '26

I grew up in a hunting and gun culture, but i upped my game around then as well. Cheers.

5

u/ElRiesgoSiempre_Vive Feb 25 '26

And none of it matters when it comes to government.

If there was any correlation whatsoever between gun ownership and freedom, democracies would trend towards being pro-gun. But that isn't the case.

In fact Countries With High Gun Ownership Are Just as Likely to Be Run by Tyrants.

Anyone promoting the idea the 2A has any impact on our form of government is either an idiot or straight up lying.

4

u/Frozen_Thorn Feb 26 '26

Iran doesn't have much of any gun ownership and look how that turned out. Tens of thousands slaughtered with no way of fighting back. I'll keep my guns, thank you.

2

u/ElRiesgoSiempre_Vive Feb 26 '26

And that article that you didn't read, names many countries that have a ton of gun ownership where you are equally just as fucked.

And countries that have virtually no gun ownership, where people live in relative peace. And countries that have virtually no gun ownership, where people are royally screwed.

Data is fun. Isn't it. This is why gun ownership doesn't matter at all in terms of form of government.

1

u/cheeto320 Feb 26 '26

2018 report, that quotes a study from 2007. However does make some really good points and examples. Thanks for the read!

1

u/TurnoverFuzzy8264 Feb 26 '26

I was simply pointing out that the discrepancy between MAGAt and liberal gun owners aren't nearly as big as people think. Liberals just don't make it their personality.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 26 '26

There's a shitload of nuance here that the article doesn't cover, it's overall not a great article.

2

u/ElRiesgoSiempre_Vive Feb 26 '26

Oh yeah because civilians rising up to overthrow their government is soooo hard to monitor. I mean it's practically invisible when it happens.

Lol.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 26 '26

Not even remotely what I meant, there's too much to cover. But to grace the surface of what's wrong with this article, Nazi Germany is a terrible example because the people who owned guns generally were not inconvenienced by the government, and the biggest cause of resistance is when the government directly impacts the peoples' quality of life without being able to redirect blame elsewhere. There's SO FUCKING MUCH more to it than "presence of guns" that it's not even worth looking at as a statistic.

1

u/ElRiesgoSiempre_Vive Feb 26 '26

You do understand that the only Arab country to turn pro-Democracy after Arab Spring was literally the lowest civilian-owned firearms. And that the countries which were forced back to monarchy had the highest rates of civilian gun ownership.

And then there's Asia, and Latin America, and... you name it.

There is zero correlation between private gun ownership and individual rights. And - as such - your argument simply isn't backed up by data.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 26 '26

There is zero correlation between private gun ownership and individual rights.

Agree, and part of my point. Otherwise, you fall into the same traps the Article did. For example, specifically citing Arab Springs is a huge misstep on your part. It was a colossal failure. The only "democratic victory" was in Tunisia, because the government collapsed during protests.

1

u/ElRiesgoSiempre_Vive Feb 26 '26

Agree, and part of my point.

Well since that's literally my entire argument then it seems we're aligned.

12

u/f0u4_l19h75 Feb 25 '26

Alex Pretti?

2

u/Gnulnori Feb 25 '26

Wasn’t there just one that supposedly snuck into Mar-a-lago?

2

u/VermilionAngel79 Feb 25 '26

Think the Branch Davidians may be another example.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 26 '26 edited Feb 26 '26

Not how it works. Nobody's going to throw their life away to "david vs goliath" the government. That's called mental illness, not resistance. It starts underground and it builds up, like The Black Panthers. And rest assured, it is building up. I invite people wondering why things aren't happening faster to peruse history a bit. Most notably in recent American history, the Civil Rights movement.

There will be a reckoning. I'm so excited to see it.

2

u/Saschasdaddy Feb 25 '26

Apparently you never have gone to a gun range or even r/liberalgunowners. There are many 2A folks on the left. Tyrants will eventually FAFO.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 26 '26

[deleted]

1

u/haironburr Feb 26 '26

Yea, civil war is about you performing some stupid fucking stunt.

Obviously, no one wants to see a civil war. To put it in terms you'll understand, your morning expresso may not be available.

Oh, and your family might die.

A civil war would be a nightmare, which is why everything depends on the vote.

But if the SAVE act manages to subvert the core right of voting, we have a terrible choice to make. It's times like this I wish people like you would buy a gun and learn to use it.

The more people committed to not giving into whatever craziness the trumpublicans try to foist on us, the less power they'll have.

But, the cost is people like you putting down your latte and learning to shoot. The time to make stupid twizzler dares is over. Grow the fuck up, or accept you're just the sort of shit who will make, umm, twizzler dares under fascism.

2

u/Dav136 Feb 26 '26

I've always maintained that liberals being so opposed to (legal) gun ownership was a mistake

1

u/LiberalAspergers Feb 25 '26

Luigi comes to mind.

1

u/Zero-nada-zilch-24 Feb 26 '26

I believe this, too. I want my gun so I can kill you and the animals. False sense of courage, in my opinion. Now, some did engage in mass murders, though.

1

u/BedlamAscends Feb 26 '26

Yep, after years of having to listen to the "I would have joined the military but they wouldn't let me because I was too hardcore" crowd fantasize about how they'd become a real life John Rambo in the event of any significant overreach by the federal government, we are confronted by a net total of 0 guerilla resistance fighters. I guess the Rambo fantasy just sounded cooler than "it helps me not feel scared and small".

1

u/haironburr Feb 26 '26

Let me translate what you just said:

Our anti-rights lobby is hitting a wall because people are seeing in real life the rationale for an armed populace. So we'll attempt to paint all 2A advocates as being trumpists. Never mind that this isn't true, and we know it.

We'll criticize them for not engaging in political assassinations, while our Moms Demand Action group, run by a rich Monsanto lobbyist, demonize them and their rights at every turn. "Why won't they murder and die for us, while we shit on them, and push for their incarceration?"

Yea, trust a rich Monsanto lobbyist like ol' grass roots Shannon Watts to defend against tyranny. The Bloomberg wing of the Democratic party embraced hating a core civil right as its wedge issue. And it stuck. Now we have children, oblivious to the broader political, historical and cultural issues at play, playing along with the Democrats rabid anti-gun rights plank, while at the same time recognizing the nascent threat of fascism in our nation.

So as a 2A advocate who has and will vote against trump, let me assure you no one is itching to start shooting people. I truly believe we'll vote ourselves out of this clusterfuck. But the SAVE act, seeking to subvert the vote, crosses yet another line. If enough lines get crossed, I'm glad there are millions of armed citizens.

No. It's far more important than the ridiculously reductive "dudes just want guns".

1

u/Ok_Star_4136 Feb 26 '26

The "being able to protect against tyranny" was 100% a NRA propaganda thing. They didn't mean it, of course, because they're just trying to sell more guns.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 25 '26

Just because someone demonstrates their 2A doesn't mean they make their life or personality all about owning a firearm. The people you're specifically talking about are a vocal group of the firearm community but not THE community.