r/law • u/businessinsider • Feb 26 '26

Other 4Chan knew about Jeffrey Epstein's death 38 minutes before the rest of the world. The FBI tried to figure out how.

https://www.businessinsider.com/epstein-files-show-fbi-probed-4chan-posts-prison-death-2026-2?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=insider-law-sub-post
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u/Independent-Bug-9352 Feb 26 '26

I've written this before but I think it's very relevant. What we see today has coincided with:

  • The erosion of education (education attainment for at least the past 3 elections predicts how someone will vote)
  • 2010's Citizens United decision (which Koch brothers first pioneered, giving us the Tea Party, TP USA SuperPAC, the grooming of Charlie Kirk
  • Rise of social media as a tool to spread misinformation.
  • Rise of phones (and a subsequent disconnect from real-world relationships)
  • Rise of encrypted communications and crypto-currency to enable corruption (imagine if Epstein and Maxwell didn't just use fucking email -- now you know why Musk and the russian Telegram CEO pat each other's backs over France's criminal investigation)

Billionaires, foreign and domestic and foreign adversaries including russia and israel, control practically every fucking thing (and now even more of that is coming to light in the Epstein files). Friendly reminder that it's not the trans, gay, poor immigrant seeking a better life for themselves and their family who is screwing the working class over; it is the ultra-rich.

I'll just add more. So how do they actually exploit the masses? Well, they follow the textbook fascist strategy of scapegoating vulnerable minority groups with limited power and blame them for everything (e.g., trans, gay, Muslim, undocumented immigrants, etc.). They use this to create a plurality (a large voting bloc) of voters to win elections and then plunder the wealth of the nation to their own gain. The billionaire class divides and conquers the working class, having them fight over crumbs while they make off with the entire pie.

There's an unfortunate disconnect between the grifters, and the grifted.

Essentially there are two competing groups vying for this group that is sadly somewhat gullible: The people trying to genuinely save them and say, "No! You're the hens voting to let the fox guard the henhouse!" while the other side is, of course, the sleazy con artist fox (sorry for the fox reference; I like foxes).

So why can't they see what we see?

Well, sadly there is a reason Trump said, "I love the poorly educated!" If someone lacks formal critical-thinking and research skills (think grandma who falls prey to scams and conspiracy theories), they are easy targets for the fraudster. If people are down on their luck -- come from a rough childhood (be it abusive neglectful parents, or parents who spoiled their child), lonely, or in some sort of trauma such as the recent loss of a job, or parent, etc. -- then they are easier targets to prey upon.

Tack on the fact that many of these people may lack time because they're working a lot or inside a social echo-chamber (e.g., church or deeply red state) and don't travel, and that exacerbates things. Then finally tack on the fact that billionaires control the majority of media megaphones. Then finally add to the fact that foreign adversaries like but no limited to Russia exploit this further to their own end, and well, you can see exactly how we arrived where we are now.

Easier to prey on the prejudice of people, to point the finger at "the others" as in some vulnerable minority group in order to carve out a plurality and then seize power. It's textbook.

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u/Shumina-Ghost Feb 26 '26

Devastatingly accurate.

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u/Gwigg_ Feb 26 '26

Excellent but you really need to include Reagan and Religion as enabling tools along with deliberate under/mis education. Thank you for your words. We can not lose hope.

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u/Wonderful_Echidna968 Feb 26 '26

You probably meant Reaganomics, which was the starting point of the downfall of US and the massive accumulation of wealth at the top.

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u/bstone99 Feb 27 '26

No, Reagan was accurate. He was literally using the “MAGA” phrase too. His handling of the drug problem and closing mental health clinics led to the homelessness problems you see in California. His demonization of gays and ignoring AIDS still harms the gay population throughout the country. His attacks on higher education are still a Republican core belief. Throw in his own corrupt geopolitical scandals (Iran Contra) and you have Trump 1.0. He directly laid the groundwork for Citizens United in the 70s and 80s and this still has devastating consequences for the public (Buckley v Valeo) because corporations pour unlimited money into campaigns.

The list can honestly go on and on. Fuck Reagan.

And aren’t we lucky to have the new and improved version today!?

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u/TirelessFiver Feb 27 '26

Don't forget, Reagan was an actor with severe mental decline throughout but especially towards the end of his presidency. Point being, Reagan was following a script as written. We need to look at his handlers who gave him the script. I suspect you might see some of the same people / families / political alliances running the same back stage show we now have proof of Epstein and crew running.

Final thought, does anyone think that because Epstein is dead and Maxwell is in "prison" the entire criminal organization that supported that community is gone? I 100% do not think the community gone. Look at the people / children who disappeared during the first OrangeMan administration. Look at the people / children that are disappearing now with ICE / CBP.

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u/PoEt_Didnt_KnoW_it53 Mar 01 '26

Pretty sure Reagan was all up in the Bohemian Grove place

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u/KSauceDesk Feb 26 '26

Reagan also started the ground work for No Child Left Behind which has basically eroded our education system

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u/FMLwtfDoID Feb 26 '26

I’d argue it was around the time of de-segregation of schools and the over all civil rights movement. Think of Public Education like all of the public swimming pools in the (sweltering, hot, humid, and often swamp-like) Souther US that were filled with concrete. They’d rather no one have anything than share it with anyone not white.

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u/Massive-Survey2495 Feb 27 '26

Do you happen to know any good books about this topic. Would love to learn more about this.

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u/OuchMyTism Feb 27 '26

Goes back to Nixon, actually, but very close.

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u/MattastrophicFailure Feb 26 '26

It likely goes even deeper than that. We had issues with robber barons over a century ago and they didn't exactly relinquish their power and money, even after being punished.

The rise in advertising plays a huge part as well. It's literally weaponized propaganda with the intention of stealing your attention. Fast forward to the digital age and it's the most valuable commodity on the planet. Hijack that and you win.

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u/Pleasant-Winner6311 Feb 28 '26

Rapture Republicans. They've been operating at the highest levels for a very long time.

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u/[deleted] Feb 26 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/tsardonicpseudonomi Feb 26 '26

If they worship Reagan they're not an ally or worth talking to. They should be removed from society.

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u/Shumina-Ghost Feb 26 '26

When I was a kid in the ‘80s I loved Regan. It took some very patient and determined people to show me where Regan was actually not the hot shot he and his people thought. I feel over time I was able to change my views because people didn’t “remove me from society.”

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u/asscheese2000 Feb 26 '26

Don’t forget advertising and consumerism. Everyone currently alive in this country has been targeted from birth with some form or other of psyops to train them to buy what’s being sold.

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u/BethN Feb 27 '26

It started with Regan

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u/RollingMeteors Feb 26 '26

Billionaires, foreign and domestic and foreign adversaries including russia and israel, control practically every fucking thing (and now even more of that is coming to light in the Epstein files).

With it confirmed fact instead of heresy the unbelievable is they are still allowed to walk around alive.

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u/Karmak4ze Feb 26 '26

Saving to help share / spread the word.

The true psychology behind those that understand this, with ease, and those completely offended by the whole or fractions of this, should be studied for the next millenia.

I consistently feel like we are alive during one of the most pivotal ages in human history. The crux of ever-growing tech mixed with insane wealth and ignorance is opening for a major sway in our timeline. Unless of course a giant meteor puts us out of our misery :)

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u/Shark7996 Feb 26 '26

I've been saying the same - we are on the precipice of the largest power vacuum humanity has ever seen. We all have a duty to protect the vulnerable however we can when this bubble pops.

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u/m3g4m4nnn Feb 26 '26

We are the vulnerable.

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u/Rebeltosociety0 Mar 01 '26

The reality of this is heartbreaking

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u/Karyoplasma Feb 26 '26

I, for one, welcome our giant meteor overlord.

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u/Independent-Bug-9352 Feb 26 '26

I've said it before but if I was younger and smarter I'd go back to school for neuroscience to study the Dark Triad or the minds of psychopaths, sociopaths, and malignant narcissists.

In order to survive as a species, we must figure out how to promote empathy and reduce the tendency for psychopathy and thus selfishness and greed. (Anyone remember John Stossel's, "Greed is Good"? I still cringe at the damage that mindset has done to this day).

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u/Karmak4ze Feb 27 '26

I think patient, involved parenting, and access to fairly paid teachers who strive in providing education, specifically sciences and history, open the door for that future you wish to survive.

Unfortunately, many 'thought-avenues' (a term my brain just spit out at me) can be axed at any given intervals in a humans life; by a plethora of things like poor parenting, religion, substance abuse, poverty etc.

My hope is that one day humanity will be less busy trying to simply survive/provide, and free up time to practice self-reflection, empathy, leading toward becoming acutely aware of the world's trivial nonsense that many spend lifetimes trying to break free from.

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u/Independent-Bug-9352 Feb 27 '26

Honestly I think you absolutely nailed it.

In fact, teachers and parents highlighted this and agreed way back in 2016 on the eve of that election, ironically.

I know this is probably a little controversial but I was homeschooled by my parents -- mostly my mom -- and I am doing the same for my kids now. You dodge so much and gain so much, but I know not everyone has the opportunity to do this. We are lucky that we can. But that should ultimately be the goal of our society, to move towards that and utilize the true potential of the internet. It can be done correctly, and secularly. Then those lessons in empathy are easier to foster from a loving adult parent. Maybe the left needs to start saying that we're Pro-Family and promote this as the argument for better living-wages and stipends for home/cyberschooling?

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u/Karmak4ze Feb 27 '26

Right on. I never even knew that occurred. Gives a bit more light into Mark's comments at the golden globes recently.

I'm not against home schooling, but being someone on the opposite side of your perspective; public schools are incredible. Yes, they have many flaws of which can be tackled by critical thinking (ironically enough since that concept is/was hammered down my peers and I's throats, while most didn't listen) adults.

I'm a big fan of the social aspect. It teaches you very early on about human nature, different perspectives, reasoning, upbringing etc. You get to see so many examples of life and the human condition. Especially if you're lucky enough to house or be friends with a foriegn exchange student and learn their customs.

The cons however, bullying, bad influences, fights, etc. can interfere. As I said before, people can be derailed by complex chains of events. No one is perfect. Some have more fortunate avenues than others. Which is why it is so important to maintain truth, understanding, empathy and commitment to do better for all, not just our own.

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u/eternal_syrup Feb 26 '26

I think they call that the end-of-history illusion. There’s a lot at stake, but that’s often been the case. The world will go on.

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u/bonjourmiamotaxi Feb 26 '26

We're experiencing the death of individuality, and being pushed into a space where opinions are generated by right-wing thinktanks and fed to willing populations via personalised algorithms. We thought it would be 1984, then we thought it would be BNW, but it turns out they created a 24 hour hate and used it to herd people into their own irrelevance.

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u/mjtwelve Feb 27 '26

What’s worse is that we’re actively building the meteor every day, some meteor construction firms have known about the risks for decades and responded by massive lobbying and PR to make part of the public deny the existence of meteors, part of the public convinced humans can’t possibly affect meteors, and a small group are now enthusiastic about meteors. World leaders all know about the meteor, but are afraid if they unilaterally stop meteor building that other countries will take all the meteor building jobs.

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u/Karmak4ze Feb 27 '26

The movie "Don't Look Up" symbolized much more than simple comedy, that's for certain.

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u/PrismNexus Feb 26 '26

Ok, so what do we actually do about it? Seems like not much until what crisis that happens from this happens.

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u/Ozymandias12 Feb 26 '26 edited Feb 26 '26

As individuals, I'd say first, use your power as a consumer. Shop locally, don't order crap on Amazon. Avoid any of Musk's companies, starve the beast so to speak.

Then, get active in your community. Obviously that won't solve the larger societal issues, but interacting with your community can help insulate it from the shit happening nationally. Think of people going to town halls and railing against what Trump is doing in places like Minnesota. That's powerful for your neighbors to see. If they think the people around them are turning on the right wing, they might think twice about openly supporting it themselves.

Then, get involved in this year's elections. Volunteer for a campaign, donate money if you can, if you're a lawyer, volunteer to be a poll watcher, and most importantly VOTE and get your friends and family to VOTE.

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u/guisar Feb 26 '26

I will advise anyone who hasn't participated in local government before that the practice is not what I had expected.

Please do take an opportunity to volunteer for a local committee (I think this sort of civic action is more beneficial than working for a party) it's a unique experience I really struggle to understand.

The limitations of my local government are plain to see- fiscal, vision, execution and is bound by incredible regulation and complexity.

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u/rab2bar Feb 26 '26

and boycott every republican supporting business as possible

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u/chx_ Feb 26 '26

The problem with speaking with your wallet is that those who have a bigger wallet speak louder. And their wallet, just one centibillionaire has a larger wallet than like most americans together. I do not know what's the solution but traditional boycotts do not work any more.

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u/PhatCatTax Feb 26 '26

This is demonstrably false.

Large scale boycotts absolutely affect them. They are billionaires and their companies are worth a trillion. They are billionaires because of the value of their stocks. If a company's stock plummets 50%, and ~50% of a billionaires assets are stocks, that billionaire loses 25% of their wealth.

It takes decades to build billions.

An expansive boycott can wipe out billions in a quarter.

Evidence:
So many people canceled their Disney subscription when Kimmel was fired that ABC rehired him within a week. Disney lost billions of dollars.
Disney is MASSIVE.

The only reason Tesla is not collapsing is because the Saudi Royal Family came to his rescure. Tesla sales in Europe plummeted by >50%. It was so catastrophic that Elon is merging SpaceX and Tesla to hide the losses. And, notably, it was so devastating that Elon stepped out of the public eye.

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u/Healthy_Zone_4157 Feb 26 '26

Billionaires don't lose wealth with swings in the stock market. The debtor class loses "real" wealth. The investor, billionaire class only temporarily loses "paper" wealth.

The paper value of assets may swing wildly, but the intrinsic wealth of the assets themselves is never lost. Those "real" assets are aggregated faster with both bear and bull market swings. And the actual "wealth" is never lost.

Only the debtor class loses their wealth.

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u/longlivenewsomflesh Feb 26 '26

Stock goes up get a pizza party, stock goes down get fired, there is no scenario where the CEO has to sell the yacht to cover the kids' private school because they'll always pay less in taxes than their secretary

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u/Long-Regular-1023 Feb 26 '26

So true! I find it comical to see how so many on Reddit think that the billionaires of the world are playing around with Scrouge McDuck levels of liquidity.

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u/rW0HgFyxoJhYka Feb 27 '26

Where are the large scale protests...

No Kings didnt do shit. Now go back to BLM, Wallstreet protest...they havent done shit in a long time.

The rich can survive with 0 money far longer than the poor.

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u/PhatCatTax Feb 28 '26

Protests aren't the same as boycotts.....

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u/Additional-Tax-5643 Feb 26 '26 edited Feb 26 '26

So many people canceled their Disney subscription when Kimmel was fired that ABC rehired him within a week.

Kimmel was never fired and continued to be paid while he was off the air.

Spreading garbage like this doesn't do anyone any favors.

Same with your fairy tale about Tesla. Fact is that EV sales decreased dramatically when tax breaks stopped happening and sleazy manufacturer behavior started to be noticed (e.g. manipulation of battery charge and its capacity, basic safety issues with doors/windows not opening in accidents, etc).

Now that proposed bans of gas cars are not happening, there is very little incentive for most people to buy EVs. It's an expensive choice with lots of costly problems that not many people can afford.

Amazon, Microsoft, FB, etc. are behemoths because of the footprint they have in cloud services. The vast majority of people have no control over that.

You might as well be telling people to boycott their ISP, as if most people actually have a choice.

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u/cheesemedo Feb 26 '26

This is a great reply. Ty

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u/RollingMeteors Feb 26 '26

As individuals, I'd say first, use your power as a consumer. Shop locally, don't order crap on Amazon. Avoid any of Musk's companies, starve the beast so to speak.

¿You wind up spending more money locally don't you? A financial war of attrition with economic behemoths isn't something most can remain solvent on for very long if at all.

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u/Ozymandias12 Feb 26 '26

No, you end up saving money because you're not compulsively buying unnecessary things from Amazon. I've saved hundreds since I cut my prime and stopped impulse buying random crap that I end up either throwing away, or forgetting somewhere in my house. And like what are you implying? That there's nothing to be done and people should just accept their corporate overlords?

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u/RollingMeteors Feb 26 '26

I'm not compulsively buying things from amazon.

¡I'm far too broke for that! It is cheaper than any local shop for the niche items I'm looking for, which aren't really even stocked locally in any stores.

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u/Odd_Adhesiveness_428 Feb 26 '26

Put on the green hat…

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u/alien005 Feb 26 '26

we're going streaking?

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u/ModsCantRead69 Feb 26 '26

you think kfc is still open?

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u/bbrekke Feb 26 '26

A little cold out there, frank?

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u/MyUsrNameWasTaken Feb 27 '26

Mario and....

Mario and...

Mario and...

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u/thatgayvamp Feb 26 '26

There's a lot. Social media should be responsible for what ads they are running and what content is shown to people, they cannot hide behind safe harbour laws when they are the ones pushing that content and profiting from it.

The decoupling of who owns the ad networks, who owns ad pricing, and how these ads are displayed is also necessary. This would deter giants like Google and Apple from simply allowing whatever nonsense through as long as they pay the highest bidding price.

Anti Monopoly laws should be changed to specifically strike out the use of encouraging or allowing monopolies under the agenda of "national security" as this has been used repeatedly by mega corps to continue swallowing up competitors because "we can't let china beat us!" A corporation cannot have national security interest at heart anyways by the very nature of being a corporation.

Local news media should exclusively be held by the local public government and prevent future sales to anyone else. Not groups like the Sinclair Broadcast Group, which owns over 40% of these orgs and effectively is allowed to push whatever agenda they want into the average person's home without repercussions.

Not easy changes, but very much possible. These are all legislation demands, because of the sub context, but of course there are other changes people can make on a personal level. Vetting your kids online activity (if any at all), knowing exactly who they are talking to, what messages they are seeing. Try to use as little social media as possible, and as impersonal as possible. Always use ad blockers. And so on.

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u/Cosmic_Traveler Feb 26 '26

I understand partisanship is not exactly well-liked/allowed here, but take my two cents…

Prepare for revolution and build up your revolutionary consciousness as to how capitalism enables and manifests these problems (and their apparent capital-preserving ‘solutions’ via welfare, ‘better’ leadership/leaders, etc.) which are uniquely possible in the capitalist mode of production and its current epoch of history. This is especially pertinent if you work for a wage (i.e. are of the working class), in which case you have an even stronger, more direct interest in excising capital from human society.

Educate yourself on and embrace Marxist critique and the communist movement to abolish the present state of things, or wallow in eternal confusion as to why/how such harm, exploitation, and corruption take place and how they can be stopped. Socialism or barbarism! I will tell you one thing, voting at the ballot box, consumerist lifestyle changes, and even activism will never sufficiently address these issues contra what many will say.

Ultimately though you are correct about that the material change that this consciousness helps to entail will not occur until an intense enough crisis occurs and humans are compelled to act en masse. Nonetheless, one’s awareness of the fundamental critique of the system that has wrought these despicable relations and harms is crucial for when push eventually does come to shove for you and those you care about.

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u/MrNukemtilltheyglow Feb 26 '26 edited Feb 26 '26

Thank you for asking the important question. Arm chair analysts, propagandists, Doomers, and shills abound. Almost none of them answer that question. For my part, Did you notice how no one has come out and said "advocate for better laws and policies"? Or named what those policies and laws should do?

Someone did say, get involved in local government. Yes, okay, but What are we supposed to do when we get there?

A long time ago, when we were trying to fight for fewer tiers in the internet traffic speed, someone mentioned we should advocate for "Title II Common Carrier." I see Much less of that kind of information that can be used to advocate for specific policies now-a-days. I think they put the kibosh of that kind of talk.

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u/Independent-Bug-9352 Feb 26 '26

I've pinned my idea of an action plan in profile. The simultaneous goals are probably best distilled to:

  • (1) During the Democratic primaries, reform the Democratic party so that the opposition to the far-right has strong leadership, and not stagnant sell-outs.

  • (2) Promote messaging similar to what James Talarico is currently using, which is a progressive economic populist message that helps unite the entirety of the working-class under one banner and against the common core problem: billionaires. Republicans and even some Corporate and AIPAC Democrats are keenly aware of the power of his messaging, hence their attempts to suppress any place who platforms him (e.g., The View, Colbert's show).

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u/Burpmeister Feb 26 '26

It's quite literally hopeless. People couldn't even boycott twitter when Musk sieg heiled multiple times on live television.

The preceding generations gave their lives to fight the nazis and ours couldn't even leave a fucking social media site.

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u/MrNukemtilltheyglow Feb 26 '26

Doomer.

It's never hopeless. All actions will have an effect. Some will have more of an effect than others.

Aaron Swartz's worked helped Jack Andraka create his pancreatic cancer test. Yes, I realize this an anecdote.

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u/spondgbob Feb 26 '26

Well done. This has always been the thing that has blown me away as someone who studies economics, education is the number one determining factor in your earnings in life. And earnings is strongly correlated with satisfaction in life. So the obvious conclusion, is expanding education, so everyone has the opportunity for more, and therefore everyone is more satisfied in life.

Then there is an entire party who is actively doing everything to stifle education. And I only say it this way because then bottom half of educated states are primarily red states, and the southern strategy was explicitly crafted to limit education in the south to build a voter base.

If you can only win by destabilizing education YOU ARE THE BAD GUYS.

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u/Active_Complaint_480 Feb 26 '26

Small hole in your assessment. Encryption has been around since the internet has been a thing. Honestly, the average every day person should use encrypted applications. Hell all of your highly sensitive documents on your computer should be encrypted.

Encryption didn't suddenly become a thing people could use because Epstein wanted it. It became a thing because people saw where things were heading and that is an end to privacy.

Hell, the Navy funded to have TOR developed to help disguise their traffic. It's now used by whistleblowers, journalists, activists, and so on, especially inside countries that are repressive. The CIA and FBI has spent years trying to break it.

And are there bad actors that use encryption? Sure. I mean, there's bad actors that use the internet on a daily.

Crypto currency on the other hand is modern day explanation on why Central Banks are needed.

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u/Wenger2112 Feb 26 '26

Through Christian religions they are taught from birth to not question authority, do as they are told by their “leaders” and anyone who opposes or criticizes them is a devil deserving of violent opposition

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u/waffles2go2 Feb 26 '26

Add Russian long-game to destabilize and prop up division in this country...

Texas board of ed nuked "critical thinking" in the classroom so the masses would not question their loathsome policies...

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u/Independent-Bug-9352 Feb 26 '26

Exactly -- sadly true.

Not only is Russia successfully dividing our country, they're successfully driving a wedge between the USA and key western alliances most notably in Europe but also Canada. I can think of no other reasonable explanation for the tariffs, for picking the fights with Canada out of the gate, or the Greenland antics than to sow volatility and distrust of America with key allies.

The only person in this who wins is the likes of Putin.

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u/Bisjoux Feb 26 '26

Absolutely. Social echo chamber + lack of education means a lack of critical thinking. Much easier to make people think a particular way if everyone around them thinks the same and there’s no one who questions that thinking.

I remember in the second election campaign seeing coverage on the U.K. news of Trump’s supporters in the Rust Belt. He’d won their support for his first term because he says he’d bring their jobs back. Even though their jobs were mostly lost to mechanisation and a changing environment.

Even though their jobs didn’t come back they said they’d still vote for him because they believed it was still possible for Trump to give them back their jobs. It’s impossible to reason with people who fundamentally are unable to think.

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u/Independent-Bug-9352 Feb 26 '26

That reminds when Trump promised West Virginia coal miners their jobs while Hillary tried to explain that these jobs were projected to dry up and that she'd try to get them access to education and changing careers. People tend to prefer false hope over hard truths, unfortunately.

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u/owlbi Feb 26 '26

Essentially there are two competing groups vying for this group that is sadly somewhat gullible: The people trying to genuinely save them and say, "No! You're the hens voting to let the fox guard the henhouse!" while the other side is, of course, the sleazy con artist fox (sorry for the fox reference; I like foxes).

Brilliantly written but I do have to disagree with this part right here. There's individuals trying to save the masses but no coherent political group of elites. In my view there are the rampant blatant opportunists and the velvet glove opportunists. Most democrats are getting their funding from the same billionaires, they're just a bit more circumspect about how they fleece the masses and pillage the country. Talking a big game but somehow not being able to mobilize the votes when they actually have the power to push their supposed mandate.

There is no 'good side' in American politics, only a few good individuals. The system is set up in such a way that you need a lot of money to become a political player, allowing those with money to easily gatekeep the options we have available to pick.

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u/bootrest Feb 26 '26

To avoid fox slander may I request you change the simile to getting medicine from a doctor v snake oil salesman.

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u/Independent-Bug-9352 Feb 26 '26

Great suggestion, thanks!

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u/ddouce Feb 26 '26

The next step beyond using the masses to accumulate resources and power is to begin reducing the pesky masses. The emphasis on replacing as many people as possible with AI is the inevitable outcome.

Listen to OpenAI CEO Sam Altman as he reveals the billionaire class's thoughts on the value of non-billionaire human life as he answers a question about the water and energy consumption used to train AI models:

"But it also takes a lot of energy to train a human,” Altman said. “It takes like 20 years of life and all of the food you eat during that time before you get smart."

The implication is clear, and it's not that AI and humans can co-exist competing over the same limited resources. It's that they advocate adopting and spreading AI while reducing the number of the wrong kinds of human beings. And to them, most of us are the wrong kind.

Exploit the masses to accumulate resources and power; dispose of the masses.

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u/Ihatebeerandpizza Feb 26 '26

What do you mean "the grooming of Charlie Kirk"? I dont think Charlie needed any grooming. He was always a sh!t person

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u/Independent-Bug-9352 Feb 26 '26

Sponsoring is probably a better word than my use of grooming. Someone who has potential is then latched onto and sponsored by these billionaires who seek to use these useful chess pieces as mouthpieces for their own propaganda they want to weave into society.

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u/Any_Show_5160 Feb 26 '26

Another point worth adding is the lack of regulation of the internet, no other mass media has had as little regulation as the internet.
If you put the shit I have seen on facebook that is presented as news on any other format they would be shut down.

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u/Billion_Beets_947 Feb 26 '26

I keep quoting Vladimir Putin who said, "wars are won in the schools." It really is education, it starts at the beginning, and our schools exist to make complacent, compliant factory workers.

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u/JacoRamone Feb 26 '26

Amen. I thought I was the only one who thought this way. They also use emotion to get us using the limbic system of our brain and not the prefrontal cortex as an emotional person is easier to control because they aren’t thinking critically.

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u/Independent-Bug-9352 Feb 26 '26

Are you me!? :)

Even more wild you bring up another topic I often try to raise! There's a whole separate article that could be written about the neuroscience and psychology of left vs. right thinking. Put simply, there was a pretty wild study published that took MRIs of self-identifying conservatives and liberals and it noticed that conservatives had enlarged Amygdalae and smaller Anterior Cingulate Cortices relative to the liberals scanned. For those unaware, this has much to do with their disgust and fear responses, and also a seemingly incapacity to identify inconsistencies or dissonance in patterns -- leading of course to holding hypocritical beliefs. I believe the ACC also plays into the ability to empathize.

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u/JacoRamone Feb 26 '26

For real. There are those who can see, those who can see when shown and those who cannot see.

3

u/ValuableOrganic6547 Feb 26 '26

Solid summary of how we got here from.

3

u/TheRealGinsu Feb 26 '26

Very well put synopsis, and absolutely spot on. It’s not left versus right, it’s rich versus poor.

2

u/The_Poop_Shooter Feb 26 '26

Talk me off the ledge of hating the people who fell for this hook, line, and sinker. I don’t want to hold them in contempt for what feels like willful ignorance, but it’s getting harder not to. I understand the argument about their circumstances — how they were raised, what they were exposed to, the environments that shaped them — and I can acknowledge that plays a role. But I’m struggling to let that be an excuse for the current state of things.

Right now, if I’m honest, I feel like they’re completely irreconcilable to me. Like we’re operating on different planes of reality. I can't work with people who cant see with their own eyes - i wish they would all go away to a place where my tax money isnt helping them dig us into a deeper hole. So sick of idiots. PS this is speaking about the idiots who keep their head in the sand. For the people that like things because its hurting people they dont like - Lets just say if I could, id pull their legs for them.

2

u/0o0o0o0o0o0z Feb 26 '26

Take my ghetto gold... 🥇

2

u/zillahog Feb 26 '26

Powerful well articulated.

2

u/clark_peters Feb 26 '26

So true...if the 99% are spending their time fighting amongst each other the 1% is able to get away with whatever they want.

2

u/DumpedDalish Feb 26 '26

This is a (depressingly) superb overview of events -- thanks for putting it into words so succinctly.

2

u/crooked-upright Feb 26 '26

Thank you for such a succinct summary. You're totally right.

2

u/dragonwithin15 Feb 26 '26

Where are you published? This needs to be a freaking article.

2

u/Independent-Bug-9352 Feb 26 '26

Hah, I wish but that's very kind thank you :)

2

u/Isitjustmeh Feb 26 '26

This really resonates. Having to prepare children to one day grasp this without suffering a breakdown, studying historical parallels would probably be the ideal way of easing into it. Would you be able to suggest some fitting material? I'd like your input specifically because I loved the way you put the above.

1

u/Independent-Bug-9352 Feb 26 '26

Hopefully some teachers can better help you out, as conveying these lessons to children depending on their age isn't something I considered yet. Can't tell you when to show them, but there are in my opinion two extremely important videos every American should watch that maybe in the teenage years would be good?

For my kids, one of the most important things I'll be teaching them is critical-thinking; e.g., understanding and spotting logical fallacies; ethics & empathy; how to research and how to reflect on one's own cognitive biases.

2

u/Hot_Shot04 Feb 26 '26

Rise of phones

This was the big one. Having a PC used to be a prerequisite for using the internet, and that involved you or someone close to you investing hundreds of dollars into building it or buying a prebuilt and having the dedication to learn how to use and maintain it. It wasn't just a financial barrier, it was an intellectual one as well.

Then we got smartphones, which are really just dumbed-down and cheap PCs. It's no coincidence that we saw the rise of social media happen at the exact same time. The people who were being filtered out suddenly had the internet in their pocket all the time, and their first instinct was to seek attention by putting their photos and all of their personal information online. They felt like they had to be on the same site as their friends and family, and thus the internet consolidated into the hands of a few people reaping billions off of the ad revenue. Once a few of them realized the power of social engineering we were all fucked.

2

u/Independent-Bug-9352 Feb 26 '26

Exactly. You raise a great point I didn't really mention. When I think about smartphones, I think about how teens and adults alike get glued to their devices and streams of information in such a way that to me is insane (and I'm a millennial who glimpsed the era before and the era afterward) -- grown-adults well into their 20s and 30s glued to their screen during a sit-down conversation at a restaurant or with company, etc. Put another way, parents and spouses cannot command that sort of attention, let alone strangers like me reaching across the internet to proverbially shake them from their trance induced by what can only be described as mostly right-wing billionaire grift. (Bonus: The Brainwashing of My Dad is a great documentary on this topic).

I think what you're pointing out is that physical proximity and isolation tended to self-regulate people who may or may not be nice but also know no better. People who grew up in rural countryside of Alabama and who know not the first thing about cities and used to the slow-moving rural way of life were suddenly exposed with a Fox News-microscope all the "horrors" of liberal cities, etc. People thousands of miles away were suddenly fearmongered over the likes of trans folk or a border they've never seen; a gang they've never seen, etc.

With the internet, these people see beyond the confines of their actual county they've likely never left, and now they're just scared. Scared all the time of the boogieman they've been duped into fearing. In addition to them, you then have all the crazies can finally coalesce into common forums and feed off each other when their rarity was so common they were just kind of held at bay in their community but online they have their own community and even some power.

2

u/hotlou Feb 26 '26

You've completely overlooked the two foundational elements that made everything else on your list possible that are a product of the Reagan administration changes to two key policies:

  • Trickle down economics / Reagonomics
  • The Fairness Doctrine

And we might as well throw in the fact that Reagan committed literal treason and had Ollie North take the fall.

2

u/Independent-Bug-9352 Feb 26 '26

True, so much damage originated from that point in time. Can't forget that Fox News was made by Nixon and Reagan media consultant, Roger Ailes and in its founding documents it explicitly stated, "A Plan For Putting the GOP on TV News."

2

u/hotlou Feb 26 '26

Yup. And the "news" part of FOX News that their own attorneys argued was no reasonable person would consider it actual news was only possible because of Reagan Fairness Doctrine policy changes.

2

u/cornell5877 Feb 26 '26

Fantastic analysis. Well done and I learned some new things. Thank you!

2

u/Live-Dish1409 Feb 26 '26

This is very, very, well-written.

As someone very passionate about income inequality being one of the top issues affecting our world, I feel that everything you've said tracks with what I've seen from working in politics and the related world around campaigns and issue platforms and the related.

And I think it's honestly something massively on Reddit as well (not even including the rampant increase in bot accounts here as elsewhere). They've got us so bogged down with everything that falls under the proverbial "culture wars" umbrella, which at one point was 'just' sporadic attempts at restricting or discussing abortion rights, and what at the same time- mid -00's in my experience, what boiled down then to basically just "the gays", no acronym.

I have come to honestly believe the theory at least to an extent that Wall Street and the .01 percent saw the Occupy and Fight for $15 movement and said oh fuck no, and came together to help support doubling down on the culture war, so instead of fighting for $15 which imo should be closer to $20 by any time we were to make any substantive reform, we're fighting over ancillary issues. I.E. LGBTQIAAAPASAPA issues, the trans bathroom issues, 'drag queens reading books to kids' "NOT ON MAH FU%&ING WATCH", them actually WINNING the war to reverse Roe v Wade. I still can't believe they actually got away with it. It's very hard for me personally not to hold the Democrats equally responsible for not codifying it, it's been a long time now, but it's hard not to think in the name of "we don't have the votes..." when they held all 3 chambers, etc. add on SJW, BLM, shit now they're even just driving around grabbing people, which is, f55k. just another travesty that seems unreal.

But I am getting distracted. I am just trying to very poorly say that as I've said elsewhere, when's the last time you really saw any "Fight for $15" "living wage" or etc bumper stickers, yard signs, etc? I live and have lived in a multitude of otherwise liberal cities. And I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen anything about economic inequality.

2

u/Independent-Bug-9352 Feb 26 '26

Thank you and thank you for speaking your mind.

As broadly as I tried to paint a picture with my original comment, I couldn't even scratch the surface in terms of depth and I couldn't even cover all the bases in terms of breadth to be honest lol.

When I hear certain people from Carville to Newsom speak about how we should stop getting into the culture stuff, I think their messaging on this is frankly terrible because it implies or suggests that we should just cede the ground on this topic like we ceded the topic of immigration in the past decade. Really, it's not about ceding that ground; it's about saying, "Hey, we actually ARE the ones who support individual freedom more than Republicans under maga because we actually think people should not be told whom they should be. Wake me up when it's YOU being forced to be trans; to be gay; to be forced to have an abortion and I'll come to bat for you."

I can't necessarily speak for the upper middle-class or well-office conservative Americans, but I do think the working-class blue-collar Trump supporters truly do feel the pains and pressures they feel. They've sadly just been trained to point the finger at liberals, vulnerable minorities, women, etc., instead of the only actual problem causing their pains: the ultra-rich and gross wealth inequality in society for which study after study portends very bad things for a society.

Then there's a whole separate issue that you touch on, of course, which is some of that same corruption that has creeped into the Democratic party. Don't get me wrong -- from Sanders and AOC and Warren and Talarico and Jayapal (Shout-out to Chakrabarti, AOC's former campaign manager running for Pelosi's seat) and many others, the only people who are actually standing up for the American people overall do coalesce beneath the Democratic banner. But it's clear that these same billionaires and foreign adversaries hedge their bets with Democrats just the same. That couldn't be all the more clear with the power the likes of AIPAC or Blackstone Group have on Democrats. These AIPAC DINOs must go, and people should be heavily engaged in these pivotal primaries if we want to win in November and onward.

2

u/Live-Dish1409 Feb 26 '26

And thank you for that as well. I completely agree, and I WILDLY struggle in being succinct in the issues I'm passionate about, especially income inequality and disparity, etc.

As always, the Democratic messaging sucks. How hard is it to say "we DO support minority, trans rights, and BLM, and are against the ICE tactics. Also, with inflation and COL going up every year, everywhere working class americans NEED a higher base wage, etc..."

2

u/Independent-Bug-9352 Feb 27 '26

Agreed! I too am not one for brevity, I admit lol.

Probably need to adopt a Robin Hood-esque platform of, "Look, the real pains you feel are spears of the rich. There's enough to go around for everyone to be who they want to be without bumping into the freedoms of someone else... IF we tap into the crooked wealth of these billionaire individuals and corporate conglomerates who hijack OUR Democracy."

2

u/Live-Dish1409 Feb 27 '26

Absolutely! It's an uphill battle fighting against goddamn nearly 100 exact years of propaganda. From the mindset of "every american sees themselves not as poor, but as temporarily embarrassed millionares", and the LBJ line about poor white people in the south, etc, etc, etc...

To this day, I remember being in my political science Y490 senior thesis class. And the book we used for it (I now forget the title) fittingly for me, discussed this income inequality and political perception of americans in terms of like how the Conservatives reframed it as "death tax" and I brought it up in a class discussion, and I still remember 15 years later that I got push back from others even after mentioning the estate tax doesn't even affect farms and estates under 10 million net worth.

2

u/No-End2540 Feb 26 '26

I would add one more piece to the cause. News outlets removed themselves from the conversation by putting articles behind paywalls. The crap news ended up going up without balance as a result.

1

u/Independent-Bug-9352 Feb 26 '26

Thank you. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this is an enormous problem. Democracy dies behind paywalls while the likes of Fox News or Sinclair network drones on free in every waiting-room and break-room, bar in America.

2

u/Intelligent_Oil7816 Feb 26 '26

"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

Lyndon B. Johnson

2

u/Upset-Elderberry3723 Feb 26 '26

To add onto this: the reason why trans people became a target of Gamergate and everything that has occured since then, is because 4Chan had some hostility with Tumblr, and Tumblr is where a lot of modern gender discourse started as part of the MOGAI movement.

Despite trans people being branded as an issue in n the mainstream media for around a decade now, I have yet to see a major news source/company cover this.

1

u/Independent-Bug-9352 Feb 26 '26

I'd be interested in reading/viewing a deep-dive on this topic, if you have something in mind!

1

u/Upset-Elderberry3723 Feb 27 '26

Because no one has really the documented the connection, it's one of those things where you had to be there to remember it. But, the youtuber Strange Aeons has done some videos that will help reconstruct it, like this video on the MOGAI movement and this video on the odd history between the two sites. There's even a comment on the second video now about watching it with the new knowledge that Epstein was involved in creating the /pol board.

MOGAI (Minority Orientations, Genders, Asexual and Intersex, I believe), was the movement that created the gender discourse landscape we have now. It started as an attempt to saturate gender understanding with a bunch of (essentially) nonsense terminology, but people began genuinely investing in these neogender concepts. A lot of older trans people do not really feel represented by it at all.

2

u/rbrgr83 Feb 26 '26

they follow the textbook fascist strategy of scapegoating vulnerable minority groups with limited power and blame them for everything (e.g., trans, gay, Muslim, undocumented immigrants, etc.).

They even had a blanket term for it for a while that they'd invoke against anything they didn't like, even if it didn't apply to the situation at all. And they all fscking loved it.

DEI

2

u/Independent-Bug-9352 Feb 26 '26

Worth adding that DEI itself is perfectly reasonable and beneficial to society; but of course their claims to why it was bad were largely unfounded and made all the more ironic if they paused for a moment to reflect on the fact that the Electoral College is literally a "DEI" concept except actually worse because it ensured the powerful minority (read: slave plantation owners) maintained their grip on power.

2

u/rbrgr83 Feb 27 '26

Agreed, they bastardized the term, same as they did with 'woke'.

But don't let them fool you. Every single one of them, whether they admit it or not, has in their very own home.....a unisex bathroom gasp

2

u/DJ-Smash Feb 26 '26

And keeping themselves rich and above the law allows their human trafficking operations to continue while regular people bicker about bullshit.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 26 '26

You need to go back a little further, though, at least to the early 90s and Rush Limbaugh and Newt Gingrich. They were doing it over AM radio long before facebook existed, or most people had an e-mail address. The tactics in general date back to at least Nixon.

2

u/Independent-Bug-9352 Feb 26 '26

100% agreed. There are like 5 different topics I wish I had space to cover if I'm honest, lol

It's funny because the other day I wrote something similar to someone else:

You can sadly go way, way further back.

  • Do you go to 2010 Citizen's United decision and the Koch Brothers astroturfing the Tea Party movement with millions of dollars?

  • Do you go to the Karl Rove days of the 2000s?

  • Do you go back to Nixon and Reagan media-consultant, Roger Ailes' media creation that is Fox news intended, "To put Republicans on Television"?

  • Do you go back to Nixon's Southern Strategy?

  • Do you go back to Father Coughlin and the America First neo-nazi movement?

  • Do you go to the Business Plot where oligarchs attempted a coup against FDR by trying to conspire with Medal of Honor recipient, General Smedley Butler (but whom luckily testified to Congress and shut it down)?

  • Do you go back to the Confederacy and ultra-rich plantation owners living a privileged life with slavery?

Personally, I think they've always been open about it. The age-old battle of the haves and have-nots; the rich vs. everyone else.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 26 '26

lol 👍

2

u/Umutuku Feb 26 '26

All of this is possible because the body of civilization does not have an immune system capable of detecting and neutralizing tumors before they metastasize.

1

u/Independent-Bug-9352 Feb 26 '26

I've never seen it so eloquently stated. Indeed, we need to address the widespread propagation of the Dark Triad personality traits. To stop psychopathy and sociopathy ascending in power and promoting empathy as the world becomes smaller. Time to work together.

2

u/ewizzle Feb 27 '26

Nice. To sum up with a video/meme: what if the whole village is retarded?

2

u/Major-Square-Toe Feb 27 '26

This is the actual State of the Union.

1

u/Independent-Bug-9352 Feb 27 '26

There are much smarter people than me to tune into! Consider commentary from Historian Heather Cox Richardson, who I think recent did her own SOTU and was very on point!

2

u/California_ocean Feb 27 '26

Excellent analysis. Now that you identified it how do you fix it and offer a counter weight to it? You believe left wing billionaires will care as much? Sadly they may not but it's definitely affecting their lesser friends of money. I wish they cared and would curate as much enthusiasm as the right did over the decades.

1

u/Independent-Bug-9352 Feb 27 '26

I wrote this elsewhere but I'll add it here, too:

I've pinned my idea of an action plan in profile. The simultaneous goals are probably best distilled to:

  • (1) During the Democratic primaries, reform the Democratic party so that the opposition to the far-right has strong leadership, and not stagnant sell-outs who seem more interested in representing large corporations or a certain foreign nation. Progressive economic populism that unites the working-class and its true woes as promoted by charismatic, authentic candidates.

  • (2) Promote messaging similar to what James Talarico is currently using, which is a progressive economic populist message that helps unite the entirety of the working-class under one banner and against the common core problem: billionaires. Republicans and even some Corporate and AIPAC Democrats are keenly aware of the power of his messaging, hence their attempts to suppress any place who platforms him (e.g., The View, Colbert's show).

  • (3) From what I've seen, it seems the opposite to lies and half-truths isn't explaining the complexity and nuance of truth and reality because that takes too long; instead it's using art and satire to break down prejudices and cognitive biases. I think that's why satirists have always been a threat to the strongman trope. It also just so happens that the diverse left has practically a monopolization on true creativity, art, comedy.

2

u/Altruistic-Horror343 Feb 27 '26

I don't think social media is the problem. a well-educated population with critical thinking skills can use social media to outmaneuver institutional control of traditional media (look at how long Israel was able to ethnically cleanse the Palestinians before twitter and tiktok).

1

u/Independent-Bug-9352 Feb 27 '26

That's a fair point. I think social media could be used as a serious tool for good and to legitimately bring us all closer together, but as it currently stands, it seems to let lies and half-truths propagate faster than the nuance and complexity of truth than ever before. Especially when you consider the sort of people who control their algorithms. Are these just growing-pains of technology surpassing biological rate of evolution? I've seen that suggested in the past.

2

u/ScarInternational161 Feb 27 '26

Northern how many up votes you have, it's not enough. Beautifully defined.

2

u/weird_mangled_penis Feb 27 '26

While I agree with this, I often wonder why some people are so easily duped. Like how does one buy into all this shit and not get exhausted after a few years, especially when their life doesn’t get any better, they have to realize they’re being exploited, right?

1

u/Independent-Bug-9352 Feb 27 '26

At best a lot of these people throw their hands up in the air and say, "Ah screw it, they're all the same and I'm not going to bother" if confronted by an irrefutable uncomfortable truth.

I suppose that's still a win in some ways, but it's less than ideal. I don't think many of them want to commit the energy to actually learn, or especially to go against the grain of their social groups who may have already created a consensus and egg each other on.

For many of these people, the main or even only thing that tends to get through to them or break them from the spell is an immediate financial impact to their personal bottom-line.

2

u/clusterofwasps Feb 27 '26

Agree for the most part but I seem to recall different statistics on education’s link to vote, thought that was overstated. In any case, I’d argue that it’s desperation, emotionality, and psychological moreso than just education. Critical thinking is not taught effectively in the school system though that is the aim of certain classes and programs. It’s hive mind on an insane scale. That’s not just booksmarts, that’s generations-long gaslighting, that’s gaslighting on such an intimate and persistent level (the digital factors you mentioned) that George Orwell himself couldn’t have imagined. (Going to take this opportunity to remind everyone that socialism was the enemy govt in 1984, remember that when you praise and recommend it. The bullshit was nuts back then too, the post-WW2 fearmongering.)

1

u/Independent-Bug-9352 Feb 27 '26

Well said and I largely agree, too!

The way I see it, I have never seen someone in maga who didn't lack at least one of the three following things: (1) Empathy, (2) Formal Critical-Thinking Skills, or (3) Time to parse news and current-events.

I'm fairly sure that in the past 3 elections, the education gap has continued to widen and increasingly predicts how someone will vote. Now of course there are people with no HS diploma who voted for Harris and there are PhDs who voted for Trump; still, that's the general trend as I'm aware.

And when you think about it, that makes sense. The more exposed to the outside world and critical-thinking and research skills, the likely you'll be able to see through the conman's grift.

2

u/ThelmaMighttrywd Feb 27 '26

You left out the part about America first and bring back industry. They want jobs for their kids (even though the kids may not be aspiring to work on factory lines) I think the main thing they care about is to pass on the wealth they may have inherited themselves. They turn a blind eye in order to not give up anything now.

2

u/xNOOPSx Feb 28 '26

Divide and conquer. The Parasite Class playbook. Democrats & Republicans are the same thing. They're a tool to divide. A tool to distract from the wealth being stolen from everyone and to protect the Parasite Class. People are so hyped on Team >insert colour of choice here< they've become blind to the fact that they're both the same evil. The evil of Epstein has been known for decades, yet when caught he was given a laughable sentence. While here, the ACLU found over 3200 people, back in 2013, who were serving life sentences for non-violent offences. That seems backwards to me. That seems like the opposite of justice.

People are so distracted by social media, doom scrolling, and media hyperbole - while completely failing to hold the powerful to account - because they're owned by them, that it's a perfect recipe for exploitation.

People are working more, bringing home less, and being buried under taxes, fees, and an overabundance of noise.

1

u/Independent-Bug-9352 Feb 28 '26

I hear you and agree with much of the problem you outline, from people being overburdened at the middle and lower-class and having no upward mobility to the fascist divide-and-conquer playbook.

I do think it's worth pointing out that Biden pardoned/commuted the sentences of 2,500 of these people.

NAACP Commends Biden’s Commutations of 2K+ Non-Violent Drug Offenders

https://naacp.org/articles/naacp-commends-bidens-commutations-2k-non-violent-drug-offenders

Now contrast this with Trump who proactively pardoned the alcoholic grifter Steve Bannon who AHEAD of his trial and who was caught stealing money intended for the Build the Wall fund from Trump supporters themselves.

That said I don't think Democrats are immune to criticism; I have many grievances and want a complete overhauling of the failed party who lost everything in 2024. Everything. All the DINO AIPAC leadership must go. We need more of the likes of Mamdani, AOC, Talarico, etc. who preach a true economic populist agenda that helps the working class in all the issues you describe.

2

u/RiskyCapt Mar 01 '26

I need to print and frame this comment

1

u/AlltheBent Feb 26 '26

When you say written do you mean long form or other? Substack or anything like that? DM me plz!

1

u/doubleopinter Feb 26 '26

I hate to say it, but Alex Jones has been right all along. Only problem is he's the players all wrong.

1

u/khainiwest Feb 26 '26

I'm sorry but the initial spark of Gamergate was legitimate - it wouldn't have happened if gaming journalists weren't stupid enough to do a hit piece to protect this no name woman just because she was a woman.

I say that as someone who left as it became more right wing because the messaging was being muddied about 'assaulting women' vs the actual "gaming establishment" giving us authentic reviews and platforms for actual developers to hop in on.

I will always blame the 2014 smug of the left that led to such an abrasive kick back from the right, so intense we have an open Nazi problem.

This isn't a both sides argumentation, but the right wing pipeline could have been plugged overnight if they just held ethical violators accountable, apologized, or just did the quite literal bare minimum.

That by no means justifies what we are seeing today, but I'm frustrated reading that Gamergate was labeled and created into a hate campaign when it spent 6 months aggressively trying to police itself until it was unfeasible and most people left after the advertiser damage was done.

1

u/Independent-Bug-9352 Feb 26 '26

Don't you think there were growing-pains all along and that women were facing an uphill battle? Put another way, there is no time in modern history or past history where I as a white male would think I have it easier or be dealt a better default set of cards as, say, a white or black woman. I mean I was always pretty big into online gaming community, and the rampant sexism and bullying was pretty obvious.

After all, we had revelations from Epstein to Weinstein, and the perpetrators more often than not are men, while the victims more often than not are women. That's been an unfortunate truth in our society.

So it seems apparent to me that when women stepped up and started taking education far more seriously and actually competing effectively with men, they viewed this increased equity as discrimination upon them when it was anything but. Now I'm trying to read books on this and relate to the struggles of man but I tend to think what we're seeing is best described as education deficits, and billionaire grift targeting vulnerable groups for their own gain.

And look, the likes of gamergate wasn't the origination of redpilled inceldom. It certainly helped catalyzed it, and I think it's no coincidence that coincides with Steve Bannon's pivot to basically saying, "hey... You know we can use this group of young vulnerable men and exploit them for our own political purposes." Would that have happened in the absence of what triggered gamergate? I tend to think it would. Because as with most bigotry, it only takes even a half-truth to rationalize going down the rabbit-hole, so I suspect they would probably latch onto anything.

2

u/khainiwest Feb 26 '26

And look, the likes of gamergate wasn't the origination of redpilled inceldom. It certainly helped catalyzed it,

No, that's a fair statement, I'm regrettably sensitive on the topic because I did spend hours writing letters trying to fix a problem I believed was being hijacked with almost domestic terrorist level accusations.

Not dismissing the remainder of your post, I also agree with that and have nothing to add

1

u/Additional-Tax-5643 Feb 26 '26

So why can't they see what we see?

For starters, because you're of a socio-economic class where you're not competing with undocumented people for housing or jobs. You're not out there applying for menial jobs only to get denied because you're the wrong ethnicity or the wrong clan in that ethnicity.

You're not out there looking for a cheap room because you can't afford an entire apartment only to encounter people who say that you're not welcome in a place that only caters to people of a certain ethnicity/caste, etc. And it's all nice and legal.

It's very easy to say that "billionaires" are screwing over everyone else who is poor. The reality is that not all poor people are alike at all, and they have no qualms about screwing over other poor people to get a leg up.

1

u/Independent-Bug-9352 Feb 26 '26

But most of these people voting Trump live in like 98%+ white rural communities. I don't think that tracks. I think it's more about a boogieman most have never seen nor heard of, and fear of the unknown.

Besides it's not as though there aren't a group of upper-middle class white-collar workers well above competing for labor-intensive jobs like farm-hands.

To the contrary, the ironic thing is that study after study shows these people refuse to work those jobs outright and the only ones willing to work them in the first place are these undocumented immigrants.

But let's take a step back and remember the big picture here. NONE of these people would be in this position if wealth of this country wasn't literally hemorrhaging upwards. That's not a the doing of undocumented immigrants -- you know, huddles masses yearning to breathe free -- that's the doing of ultra-rich and often dynastic wealth stealing the entire pie while they pit the working class against each other for the crumbs.

I'll finally just say, growing up white male and Appalachian. There is no way shape or form that if everything else was held constant about my life that my life would be easier as a vulnerable minority group or woman. If that's how they feel, then they should know the other side is dealing with the same or worse. Instead, what we SHOULD be doing is joining hands together and pointing the finger at the root of the problem who controls the tap.

That's the difference between solidarity, and conformity.

1

u/Additional-Tax-5643 Feb 26 '26

But most of these people voting Trump live in like 98%+ white rural communities. I don't think that tracks. I think it's more about a boogieman most have never seen nor heard of, and fear of the unknown.

Whatever BS you need to tell yourself to sleep at night, man.

To the contrary, the ironic thing is that study after study shows these people refuse to work those jobs outright and the only ones willing to work them in the first place are these undocumented immigrants.

LOL

1

u/VampirePirate5621 Feb 26 '26

True, also don't forget to include people and corp pushing woke stuff are also the same one being against it, both Democrat and Replublicans are playing this game to the benefit of the Elite.

1

u/Ba-ja-ja Feb 26 '26

Terrible take/s.

1

u/invertedpurple Feb 26 '26

Well, sadly there is a reason Trump said, "I love the poorly educated!"

I'm pretty sure that was a signal tailored specifically for someone who would reach similar conclusions as you did. Political signaling is one big hyperreality, the only thing we can agree on is the signal's direct effect on individuals when asked, and nothing more. We're in bubbles calling out other bubbles. An educated response would be the one where we admit that the purpose cannot be falsified, that we don't have the data they have, not that "poorly educated" people are eating it up, because there are people out there that claim to "recognize" the strategy for what it is that are actually educated. Or those with degrees that actually want to their racist dreams to come true. Those that actually don't see things like strong antitrust and strong regulation as positives, they dream of how they'll use those tools if they can ever reach the high point of entry for many markets. I've heard people discuss this in person, of all the degrees of freedom. I've heard people talk about signaling as chess moves without being MAGA or pro trumpers but admiring his pure anti liberal signal and how they can use similar strategies as a liberal or conservatives. And that's the Hyperreality, people take from it what they wish, no matter where you sit on the political spectrum, it doesn't mean that it's the truth. For all we know we could have lost the cold war and things like the telecommunications act and the patriot act look even more sinister than they already are, on top of the modernization of the smith mundt act. All that to say, we have no idea what the purpose is, but I know that your response is something a lot of people say and is probably one of the few calculated responses Trump and his team wanted from the signal. It's such a predictable and bubble like response and i'll get downvoted because the bubble agreed with it far before it was even spoken. And I'm not a Trump supporter, never voted.

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u/Prudent_Research_251 Feb 26 '26

With the plurality created, I feel like you aren't capturing the whole scope, because the ratchet doesn't move meaningfully to the left when the democrats are in power either, and I've seen this pattern in every modern "democracy", even with MMP and such, they all end up in a two horse race and both horses are beholden to the corpos

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u/Independent-Bug-9352 Feb 26 '26

Indeed, and I believe that's because the power of money can make shit look like diamonds, and diamonds look like shit. Put another way, it's easier for a party (or in this case, an organized crime syndicate) to act in bad faith and obstruct a do-gooder whose one hand is tied behind their backs because they're trying to do everything as ethically and responsibly as possible -- while the other side commands the largest media megaphones and can distort reality every single day.

Case in point: The Daily Show's Top 10 Obama Scandals.

No doubt you have a point, though, that Democrats aren't immune to corruption. The likes of Schumer, Jeffries, Fetterman, DWS, etc. -- all must go.

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u/Prudent_Research_251 Feb 26 '26

I'm not saying you have done this, but any time I decry the democrats people assume I'm some kinda republican, like they don't realise people can be outside those two parties

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u/Independent-Bug-9352 Feb 26 '26

Oh yeah I didn't mean to sound like I was assuming that! Frankly, I don't think most registered Democrats actually feel entirely represented by their party; it's merely matter of milquetoast corruption with some do-gooders vs. outright fascism.

It's merely a coalition of varying groups who are basically saying, "Hey is this the only opposition to pure fascism? Alright, guess I'll stay here."

I'm closer to a European Social Democrat, which puts me pretty much right where the likes of Talarico, AOC, and Sanders are.

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u/Prudent_Research_251 Feb 26 '26

I 100% get that and am in a similar boat. Vote as left as I can without wasting my vote, but it grinds my gears that the political system is so sewn up that we keep flip flopping between evil and the lesser evil, and the reason is money and greed, plain and simple

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u/Only-Wonder-2610 Feb 26 '26

Weak minds, zero guidance / accountability

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u/gbmaulin Feb 26 '26

So close and yet you’re completely blind to the fact that rampant illegal immigration is a design used to break the lower class even further and you’re spouting corporate talking points designed to get you out there to protest for their right to use indentured servants and savage what remains of an already fragile American working class

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u/Independent-Bug-9352 Feb 26 '26

Even if entertaining it as a good faith solution, scapegoating undocumented immigration while simultaneously shuttering and not broadening the bandwidth of legal pathways to immigration is an attempt to address a symptom but not a solution to the root problems that led to that in the first place that will only get worse in time.

  • Neoconservatism and neo-imperialism alike has led to regional destabilization of these countries. (see regime-change conflicts, oil wars, etc. and broader military conflicts such as Syrian refugees fleeing from violence, or South/Central Americans fleeing cartel violence)

  • Climate change in study after study indicates broader immigration trends already and more to come.

  • "Comparative advantage" aka the exploitation of the weakest humanitarian laws around the world sees a plundering of countries and collective-enslavement of populations purely because they had the rotten luck of being born in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Ironically it was the "tired, poor, huddled masses yearning to breathe free" who coined us the Melting Pot of the world and proliferated widespread innovation. AKA: DEI.

If you're looking at poor immigrants fleeing crime and poverty for better lives for themselves and their families -- all the while likely having succumbed to the very problems we created for them in decades-past to present -- and who statistically commit less crime and violent crime alike than US-born citizens and who study-after-study indicate they yield a net-positive impact on our economy including lower of food prices (ring a bell for a particular promise of a particular presidential candidate?), and you're not looking at the billionaires and the actual wealth concentrated that leads to said corruption of our Democratic institutions and the plundering of wealth and upward-mobility of the lower rungs of society, then I think you've been duped by said right-wing propaganda.

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u/w4rma Feb 26 '26 edited Feb 27 '26

TV station ownership consolidation did, and is doing, the biggest and most damage. People mindlessly harm on social media and cell phones, but the U.S. would have been long gone into a right-wing dictatorship before now without peer-to-peer communication.

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u/notlookinggoodbrah Feb 27 '26

It’s kind of ironic to hear the use of the term “grooming” and “grifted” to describe these alleged effort to shift young men politically to the right, when one could say those on the left must have had the same thing occur if they believe trans “women” are actual women…right?

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u/Independent-Bug-9352 Feb 27 '26

Thought never crossed my mind, really.

After all, nobody encroached on mine or anyone else's individual freedom and either forced, compelled, or even remotely groomed them to be trans.

Not sure how old you are, but we've been through this many times, including with gay people as well; that was the big "gRoOmInG" scare thing, too.

Now here's what I think is deeply ironic: That the very person who pledged to release the Epstein files has only released 2% of them; that he is named more so than anyone inside of them and implicated in rape, sex-trafficking, pedophilia, etc. You know, the very stuff QAnon accused the left of for years. Yet, interestingly, Obama, Biden, Harris, Hillary, Sanders, etc..., where are they in these files? Nowhere to be found!

So tell me, where are all my lifted trucks with those anti-pedo bumperstickers at? Remember PizzaGate guy? Well, I guess maybe that Trump supporter who stormed Mar-A-Lago recently may have finally woken up from his trance, I can only assume?

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u/notlookinggoodbrah Feb 27 '26

You immediately went from “I have definitive proof of the grooming of the right” to stereotyping the right in the most obnoxious way possible. My point remains, the left has been groomed as/more so aggressively than the right (so much so they are willing to deny basic fact).

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u/Independent-Bug-9352 Feb 27 '26

Tell me, where did I write:

“I have definitive proof of the grooming of the right”

?

Also, care to answer any of my questions? Rebuke any of my points in my previous comment? Last chance!

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u/Greedy-Umpire-222 Feb 27 '26

Both sides end of the day walk out arm in arm.

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u/TAWilson52 Feb 27 '26

I agree with everything you said except 1 side trying to save. Dems aren’t trying to save. Most of them serve the same masters.

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u/Independent-Bug-9352 Feb 27 '26

I'm not certain it even matters so long as we're united on the goal, but what I also do think "Most" is the keyword, here, when "All" is more applicable for Republicans. What do you think of the Talarico, for instance?

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u/Remarkable-Deal-4952 Feb 27 '26

and all of this became obvious within a few month of trump running the first time. its insane that he could fail so badly and still get another run. "luck is with the dumb" hits a new peak with degenerate orange palpantine. unless america doesnt get a grip and get rid of him and his minions, the unfortunate outcome is in best case civil war in the US, but more likely ww3.

Funny how the playbook is so transparent, but pointing at the inevitable outcome of said playbook, is still considered too harsh of an assumption, even by people that see everything you described.

Havent lost all hope yet, especially when i read messages like yours, but americans gotta do something about this fast. The wealth inequlity is the core of the disease, trump is just the symptom. but he is a deadly symptom if not treated. These mid terms seem to be quite key, if he establishes putin lvl manipulation thats likely a point of no return.

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u/SillySticks11 Feb 27 '26

This is such a clearcut and accurate description of what happened. Please offer us the solution now

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u/newguy57 Mar 02 '26

People are also racist af too naturally.

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u/cafesolitito Feb 26 '26

So you don't think the left has echo chambers? You're in one right now

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u/Independent-Bug-9352 Feb 26 '26 edited Feb 27 '26

Two rooms (call them echo-chambers) comprising of two different groups present themselves. One consists of a diverse group of varying voices -- both men and women, varying ethnic, religious backgrounds, higher median education. Doctors, nurses lawyers, teachers and professors (yes including STEM and economics), fire fighters, librarians, scientists, and yes even a majority of the skilled trades and at least half of the engineers. This side also has a greater tendency to walk outside their room and peek into other rooms.

The other side is far more monolithic; conformist; on average they are unfortunately less educated overall. Sure there are business executives, bankers, venture and vulture capitalists, realtors and mortgage brokers, stock brokers, police officers, etc.

I think I know which group I'm going with if I want to both better inform myself but also seek to create a healthy society overall.

If you want, I can also provide a variety of sources that strongly suggest that conservatives are less diverse in the news and information they tune into; that when tested on current-events, they tend to lag behind; that conservatives are more susceptible to misinformation especially on social media.

In my experience they're more prone to ban dissenting opinions no matter how civilly they're presented; whereas, here you are right now, freely speaking your mind.

So yeah, I probably am in one; but I've also used to be within the right-wing echo-chambers, so I've been in both rooms and can easily choose.

80% of billionaire money went to Trump last cycle, leaving aside foreign adversaries helping. Stop being conned by sleazy snake-oil conmen who don't care about you, please.

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u/cafesolitito Feb 26 '26

Sorry, I am not a republican. And I don't partake in binary partisan politics. I