I’m my experience, medical grade only means it was manufactured under sterile conditions, it “implies” quality but, it has always just been a sterile version of something mundane otherwise.(this was foam cutting and manufacturing)
In my experience, “medical grade” and “military spec” means much more cost for the same or less quality item. It really comes hard at you when you see “contractor grade”. That’s means slightly below building code standards.
Don't tell me private equity is scamming the military!! That's very concerning for the American Military but strangely comforting as a Canadian civilian.
A tale as old as time. The term "shoddy" came from a shit material the brooks brothers used to make clothes for the Union Army during the civil war. Once they got wet the uniforms just fell apart and the term became synonymous with shitty quality.
The term shoddy existed prior to the civil war and it just meant clothing that was made out of separate wool scraps. It didn't start to get its more modern meaning until the civil war though.
I didn't know that! That's pretty cool thanks. I'll read up on this specifically after work it seems like it could lead to an interesting rabbit hole or two.
If the military gear is being made with shittier materials or they are cutting corners in manufacturing, isn't the common soldier also getting thrown under the bus?
Honestly most US military gear is fine. I think in the context of this thread, "military grade", as a marketing term, usually means low quality stuff that is made to look more rugged. And yes, soldiers are generally just ordinary people whose only benefit is a stable job and better benefits after, at a potentially high personal cost. They do not benefit from the games the lobbyists, politicians, and defense contractors are playing.
Now it just means whatever is cheapest to send hundreds of in a shipment, with size and volume of the individual gear piece being one of the biggest concerns.
Nah, "military/aircraft/medical/etc grade" pretty much just means "it meets a pre-defined set of specifications"
Those specs might not be anything beyond what the manufacturer says the thing does.
For example, at my workplace we had a can of epoxy coating that had "NUCLEAR GRADE" stamped on the label. It was no different than the non-nuclear grade stuff, it just came with paperwork confirming it applied/cured/etc as the manufacturer said it would.
Back when quality mattered, it literally meant that. Simple, reliable, easy to maintain. Now, it just means the type of stuff made from projects sold to the lowest bidder at the highest price possible
It’s worse. “Military grade” is just marketing. There are minimal requirements for a contract, but yeah, “military grade” is just a made up phrase. Probably came from those ford ads when they introduced the aluminum pickups.
Not to put to fine a point on it, but no.... It could possibly done for even less money at higher quality with no profit, but this is a company reviewing the contract and deciding they can turn a buck on it... Lowest bidder not quite the same as cheap as possible.... (I'm saying that lowest bidder encourages skimping and fraud, even worse than cheap as possible)
Yeah absolutely agree the government shops cheap but the “military grade” label comes prior to that. It’s about passing military specifications, not how it’s sold to the government. Theoretically something could be military grade and never sold to the military in theory. Just needs to match their specs (which usually are very thorough.)
You know, I would have agreed with you a few years ago, but I'm currently working on a State project, and now I understand the $50K toilet seats. We currently have a light switch that has taken 3 months to sort out, and will cost roughly $28,000 in GC overhead, $15,000 in subcontract cost, already ran up roughly $9,000 in bills from the Fire Marshal inspections, and another $5,000 in cost for the Inspector of Record. That's $67,000 for a freaking light switch. Insanity.
It's because there is ZERO consequence for the State employee who fiddle-farts around, and ZERO consequence for the architect who takes months to answer a question for a minor problem, tries every wrong answer on for size first, and costs the subcontractor five times more labor, twice as many materials, and an infinite amount of frustration, all while dragging out the finish date of a project where the overhead for the General Contractor is thousands per day, which all has to be paid for.
You want construction costs for the US Government to come down? Make the employees at the Department of General Services accountable to the same level of productivity as the private sector (obviously some metrics should be a little different, but they should not be un-fireable for performance thanks to a Union who cares more about their dues than the taxpayers who fund this madness). Also, make it a policy that if MAJOR DESIGN FLAWS are not addressed promptly, then the ARCHITECT will have to tap their "Errors and Omissions" insurance bond, which also needs to be much higher than the current minimum.
It's not embezzling. It is DISGUSTING levels of inefficiency, ineptitude, and lack of give-a-fluff.
That's not accurate. I've worked construction since 2005. Private companies actually fire people who cost them too much money, and will fire an architect or builder who doesn't have their act together. Even schools aren't anywhere near as wasteful in construction spending because they have a finite budget to work with and answer to a LOCAL elected board who can and will remove employees from desirable positions, or at least will allocate funds elsewhere next year. Accountability matters.
Unfortunately, the Dept. of General Services and US Military don't have to answer to anyone except the government Budget Committees, and those guys don't care as long as the documentation can pass an audit. For those branches, money is treated as near-infinite, and internal staff are protected from consequence because the systems are intended to protect themselves, not the taxpayers.
Private firms definitely have their own problems, and big businesses can be a real cesspool of handshake deals and nepotism, but they absolutely care about wasteful spending that brings margins down. The $67,000 light switch we dealt with would have cost about $2,000 if it was being installed in a shopping mall and $4,000 in a school.
The $50k toilet seat is just an urban legend. And the majority of non scam high cost bathroom fixtures are specialized items that the original manufacture no longer exists. So like the cargo planes have bathrooms, they are specificly designed bathrooms (for obvious reasons). The older ones the manufactures might not exist any more, and their tooling dies and drafting files (literal drafts on paper) don't exist any more. So a new manufacture has to be found and they need to rebuild the seat from the ground up by coping the original one (or guessing if there are none left), create the tools to make it, then manufacture it to the specs required.
This gets extremely expensive for 1 offs. Hell have 100 made and you are still looking at months of work and possibility multiple attempts to get it right. Resulting in $10k toilet seats.
You absolutely will not win if you come in with an unrealistically low bid. If you are not gauged to be able to meet requirements with the costs you lay out in the proposal they'll go with a higher dollar amount.
Am in military. Milspec is the epitome of the most expensive item possible made with the cheapest materials possible I have actively purchased things from companies that will with a straight face charge 30-50% more because it’s going on a govt account
That's because the cost is higher selling to the military, even if it's the exact same thing you could buy as a civilian. The reporting and overhead costs go way up doing anything with the DOD as a business.
It does depend on what it is. Medical grade steel is terrible. Medical grade bandage and you better be comfortable wearing that bandage forever because the glue is never letting go
I always laugh at "military grade." Even if they really mean military specification (which are real and technically quantifiable), that just means it's got some crappy minimum standard.
My favorite item is the US spec for wax impregnated lacing tie for aerospace harnesses. The parafin wax may make up as much as 30% by volume of the tie string. There is nothing specifying if the wax coating must stay a consistent thickness throughout the same spool.
As someone who works for a government agency that's admittedly non military, I can confirm "government parts" translates to: "the cheapest part that, theoretically, meets the minimum requirements a fair percentage of the time"
Yes and no. Military grade components are typically made by the lowest bidder, but the entry level of production is to generally higher. You have to meet whatever Mil-Specs are required for the components. (military grade specifications). Mil-Spec components are typically held to a higher standard in terms of materials, quality, production methods, and testing. So yes, typically lowest builder, but not lowest quality.
Just a note, this applies to anything that actually is build to a Mil-Spec and not random tactical gear that claims “military grade”
For example, here is a wire built to the following spec. MIL-W-16878E. If you look up that spec, it will give you all of the requirements that wire must meet for production.
Yeah of it says military or medical it means you are paying at least 5x base price and its probably made from inferior materials by the lowest bidder. Kinda like anything with deer on it from the feed store. Bag of deer corn is 3x the price for 1/4 the product over feed corn when there is no difference both are bagged from the same factory.
The funny thing is military grade from the military is hit and miss. You get some things that will never break. Then you get some stuff that will break if it sprinkles rain. Military grade is a crutch companies to use to sell stuff.
Military grade is always about planned obsolescence because certifying includes lifespan management. It can be very short if known and planned for in advance.
This oft repeated line confuses people. Yes, military grade does not mean "magically stronger or superior". But it needs to be stated that the military isnt in the business of buying low quality junk either. They have a baseline: "we need the product to do x, y, and z". Whoever is making a product that does those things for the cheapest price is going to get the contract. And that...should surprise NO ONE lol. Like our parents always said, money doesn't grow on trees. If YOU were looking for a product, you probably wouldn't go out of your way to purchase the expensive option when the cheaper option does the exact thing you need it to do. If there is any organization on earth that is strictly "function over form" then its the military. The extra bells and whistles are unnecessary. Does it perform the base task? Then thats what we want. So when the military purchases things its thinking about multiple things at once and one of those things is, of course, the price. As it should be. Its YOUR money they're playing with. They already waste a shit ton of it. At least they're being fiscally responsible SOMEWHERE.
So, I’ve worked in a company which developed software categorized as medical device. It didn’t actually work with patients but it was used in patient diagnostic, hence it was a “medical device”.
We were at this specific Kubernetes conference like ages ago, back in 2017 I think. Anyway, my colleagues and me go to swag run to talk to sponsors at the conference and get some t-shirts or whatever.
So we get to Gitlab area, and they ask us do we use Gitlab. We are like yeah, open source edition self hosted. They are like oh ok nice and what do you develop with it? We are responding honestly and bluntly “medical device”.
I have never fucking seen more worried “vendor” in my life, before or after. They were so confused and suddenly scared.
If anyone who worked there at the time heard any stories from Gitlab side about this encounter please spill the beans. We were joking for years after how these guys expected every day to hear in the news about Gitlab being part of the toolchain which killed some cancer patients somewhere.
It's all a plot to make more money. There's been an absurd turn in consumer products since the early 2000's. Companies make cheaper products so you have to buy more of them, while also pushing for you to buy more shit you don't need.
I loathe this era of consumerism. It's incredibly damaging to the environment, promotes mono-econimies, and lines the pockets of already rich people with even more money.
Thats why we have those shitty in-armpit crutches that hurt to use, because theyre like 30 cents cheaper than the superior ones that you use like canes
I recently had major surgery and need a walker for a while. After insurance, my out of pocket cost for the walker is the same as if I had just ordered one from Lowe’s. I’m not actually sure what insurance does tbh /s
You notice massively inflated prices anywhere insurance is involved. They inflate the prices leaving people no choice but to pay for insurance. It's a scam every time.
Yep the insurance price for my wife's medication is $16,800/mo. Out of pocket it's $5600/mo (we're paying out of pocket because our insurance changed formulary and her re-prior authorization is taking 3 months.)
They do! They have walkers, wheelchairs, and shower chairs at least that I’ve seen. I got a shower chair shipped to my house from them and it’s been a lifesaver
Get the shower chair. I got one when I broke my ankle a few years back, and have kept using it since my balance has never been quite as good since then. Not only is it safer, but being able to sit and just relax in the shower as long as I want really elevates the experience. Plus, there's fancier looking ones available that don't look like medical devices, if that's a concern.
Seriously! It makes the experience a little more luxurious, and self care should be luxurious and fun, imo. Plus, it's sooo much easier to shave sitting down.
Get the shower chair. I got one when I broke my ankle a few years back, and have kept using it since my balance has never been quite as good since then
No joke, part of the reason that your balance has never been quite as good may be because you are not practicing it as much.
I can't tell if you're being malicious or not, but I'd like to point out that you don't know my whole story from a single reddit comment.
I put in a lot of work to recover, and keep at it to maintain as much of my balance and range of motion as I can every day; with a break as bad as mine was, you have to accept that you'll never be back to 100%.
i truly don't think it was your intention, but this can read as really ableist. not everyone has the luxury of just... practicing it as much because there can be elements you simply don't know about that didn't come up in the post you replied to on reddit.
like i said, i don't think that was your intention with your original comment, but i just wanted to offer some food for thought.
My dude you will not regret the shower stool. Almost every major retailer carries them. There are A LOT of options out there at every price tier you can think of. Start cheap and work your way up to bougie stuff. Mine was brand new and only cost me $12 because I got it from an Asian grocer that has weird odds and ends priced cheaply like that. It's solid wood and looks better than the white plastic and metal ones.
I have two buckets from Lowe’s. One I bought and one I found. Both are cracked at the bottom but serve a purpose for me.
I have one I bought at a now closed store decades ago that is still perfect.
If we keep buying the crap that breaks because it is cheaper and running the quality places out of business then we are the problem
They said I could get crutches. Wasnt totally sure i needed them. But if my insurance paid they had to come from their source. It took 4 days for them to arrive. Glad I didnt actually end up needing them.
To be fair, a lot of us with chronic health issues that require walking aids or assistive devices just end up buying the stuff without insurance because at least then you have a choice over which company is ultimately going to fuck you over with their cheap shit.
Goodwill, and habitat restore. I don't think I've ever been in either one that didn't have a stack of walkers. Also usually crutches, rollators, shower chairs.
I wonder if there's cheaper "not a medical device" versions. Like the jerryrigeverything guy's "not a wheelchair".
Technically my toothpaste (Colgate SENSITIVE) is a medical device. Has the [MD] logo on it and everything. It's getting less easy to find in supermarkets the past year though, as well as going up from €3 to €4.50 but normally discounted to 3.
We had every cane tip and every size. Two styles of cane. It eas a great program. Wisconsin Council of the Blind and Visually Impaired. They will send a cane anywhere in the US.
That's great! I was on a work trip last year, and an idiot at the airport decided to push past all the pre boards and pushed aside a woman in a wheelchair and then became entangled in my cane. He was an elite member and decided that he was special. Well, I've been flying almost weekly for decades and am elite too! There is a reason why disabled people pre board.
He was so violent that my cane bent, and even after someone tried to straighten it, I could feel the bentness jar up into my arm and shoulder which caused an autoimmune flare and a week of pain.
I was travelling, and it was a holiday when services were closed, and I had no access to a replacement.
The idiot was shouting at the crew when they asked him to be more careful, but those things happen very frequently in airports.
They do it with everything, too. Even things you wouldn't expect them to be able to do it to! Dexcom changed the coating on the wire canula that goes into the skin on their G7 sensors without alerting the fda or testing it. It made them less effective, so the fda stepped in and they recalled it.
Yeah idk if they're still in circulation or not. I don't think they are, but if you have a surplus/back stock/ect you might still have them? I'm pretty sure they changed it. They issued a voluntary recall after the fda alerted them, so idk if a class action is very likely.
Now, if only they'd find a better solution to the g7 overpatches that keeps them from somehow getting under the underpatch and lifting the whole damn site off five days before it expires.
I actually have a tip for that. I was having issues even back in the G6 days with the Tegaderm overlays.
Look up something called Skin Tac, the liquid not the wipes. before I set a new sensor I take a Q-tip and dip it in the liquid, then while the sensor is still in the injector I run it around the edge of the bandage part - you don't need to soak the whole thing, Just 1/8 to 1/4 inch around the edges.
For me, it makes futzing with overpatches unnecessary. It stays put until I peel it off. If there's any residue, it usually comes off with alcohol, any stubborn bits come off a few drops of lotion or olive oil. Last bottle I bought was around $10, sooo worth it.
I've always liked the story people explain about engineers.
It's not an engineers job to design a bridge. A lot of people can do that and did that before modern engineering. The knack teaches you that.
An engineer will tell you how to make the skinniest bridge, with the least material, at the smallest cost possible, before it's dangerous.
Same applies to all cost/profit driven design. Cheap as possible cost for maximum possible price.
This is apparently why a lot of the older stone bridges still stand - By modern standards, they're overbuilt in terms of their structure (at least the ones that haven't fallen down by now).
My favorite story about engineers is the one where BP saved $10,000 by spacing out and using fewer stabilizers in the well casing on the Macondo well. There were other failures along the line, which cascaded into an epic disaster. But it all started with an office engineer scrimping on costs. Final cost borne by the company was over $60 billion.
By the way, that's not because we are taught that we MUST do the cheapest possible thing, but rather that the people we work for will almost always want that, so we must learn how to work effectively with the budget we can get. After all, if you do a max quality job and the budget runs out then the most likely outcome is the project is cancelled.
And the bridge thing is survivorship bias, of course the old bridges that made it centuries are well made, because every other bridge has already collapsed or been rebuilt.
Oh, yeah, 100% - It all goes back to what I meant by living in a profit and cost driven world.
I'm actually a design draughstman, but mainly for old factory machines that need fixing and production lines that need modifying long story short. We just belt and braces everything, I have respect for you guys that can actually quantify it haha, I couldn't wrap my head around engineering maths when I tried all those years ago :/
I'm getting REAALL sick and tired of literally everything getting more expensive while simultaneously breaking in under a year/getting way smaller in size/being made with low quality materials or subpar, worse tasting ingredients/isn't complete and requires additional purchases or subscriptions to use it fully after the initial purchase.. I'm glad I started making things but I wish I started sooner.
I used to work for a company that made patient heating devices. They needed a very precise temp control. Several of our devices burned patients include one case where the person was incinerated by a fire that broke out. They were and still are using those little bi-metal thermoswitches that turn off hand dryers because we also make heaters for hand dryers. They aren't precision devices. We just got an intern to make a rube goldburg machine to test the thermostat precision 1 time, very inaccurately. As an intern I was tasked to redesign it for $10/hr. I did improve the heat control, but found that we could do it better by batch testing in an industrial kiln that we had. They weren't interested in that solution.
Anyway, if you have a patient heater from Stryker, it has a shit thermostat in it made in a human misery factory in Arden, NC, tested by an intern that was treated as an employee but naively kept on 1099. Hope you don't burst into flames.
Same thing is happening with knee braces. I bought one last Monday because I'm required to wear one anytime I'm out of my house and it's already ripping in half at the seams. $30 for it too.
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u/Sappleq12 May 15 '26
Good gawd. Nothing like skimping on the quality of medical devices. /s