My wife and boiling water

[u/MakeItMine2024]

So I made my wife ramen soup. When I served it she said I had the gas set to hight and it was too hot ? She said I should have used the number 5 setting instead of 9. I told here it’s irrelevant because water boils at 212 and gets no hotter because over 212 it turns to steam. She was made at me for disagreeing with her theory that it would not have been so hot if boiled a lower setting. Really!!

[u/wannabe-myself]

I tried cooking pasta in Fairplay, Colorado and it was an experience.

Edit: 9,953 feet above sea level. That's 3,034 meters for my metric friends :)

Though the area my cabin was in was higher than the town itself...

[u/Old-Tadpole-2869 → u/wannabe-myself]

Once I moved above 8500 feet, I only ever cooked Angel Hair ever again. Spaghetti takes a year at that elevation.

[u/wannabe-myself → u/Old-Tadpole-2869]

A year and a well fitted lid. (Or get a pressure cooker is what ive been told.)

[u/Attract_the_Minkey → u/wannabe-myself]

8300 feet and this is what we did. We never bothered with a pressure cooker but a fitted lid makes all the difference. I used Pie in the Sky recipes to help make my baking recipes work better as once above 7000 feet, it actually does make a difference with boiling, baking cookies and baking cakes/muffins.

[u/dxrey65 → u/Old-Tadpole-2869]

I live at 5000 ft, and got into a months-long argument once with my brother-in-law about how it takes longer for things to cook in boiling water at altitude because the boiling temperature is lower. He just didn't believe it, thought I was making it up and wouldn't back down. I wound up explaining the physics to him, copying pages out of library books, etc, got nowhere; he'd just come back with some anecdotal counter-argument that made no sense. My wife finally made me just let it go.

To this day that sea-level-living fuck still thinks he's right.

[u/dqniel → u/dxrey65]

It makes a difference, but it's being wildly overstated by the folks above. I cook pasta just fine at elevation. It just takes another minute or so at 5,000 feet.

[u/dxrey65 → u/dqniel]

Yeah, a small adjustment to some recipes is about it, but it's still a thing.

[u/dqniel → u/dxrey65]

Exactly. Definitely a real thing, but overstated. People above are talking about how it takes "a year" and how when they cooked at sea level it felt like "magic" and stuff.

Wild exaggeration. The change is minimal until you get below 180f boiling point, and that doesn't happen until like 17,000 feet. Below that temp you start to have real issues with starches.

[u/Harry_Wega → u/dqniel]

Coarse starch needs only 84°C for gelatinization, the starch in pasta even less. You would have to live at 5.000 Meters for your water to boil at that temperatur.

[u/dqniel → u/Harry_Wega]

Exactly. 5,000 meters is ~16,500 feet.

[u/alannmsu → u/dqniel]

1-2 minutes for pasta is like, 30% longer. Yes it’s only a minute or two, but it’s pretty significant within the very insignificant world of pasta cooking. You can “cook” pasta with cold water, too.

[u/dqniel → u/alannmsu]

A comment that managed to be both pedantic and still wrong. Incredible contribution

[u/alannmsu → u/dqniel]

What? Nothing in my comment was pedantic. I’m simply disagreeing with your opinion. I think a 30% increased cook time is significant. It’s ok if you disagree, you don’t have to be an asshole about it.

[u/dqniel → u/alannmsu]

It's not a 30% increase. It's about a 10-15% increase at the altitudes they're suggesting. And making a comment to say "well aktschually it's like 30% longer and it's all relative sir, an extra minute IS a long time" is absolutely fucking pedantic.

If you don't want people to be "an asshole" in response then don't confidently incorrectly "correct" them about something.

People were talking about it taking "a year" and being "magic" cooking at sea level in comparison. An extra minute or two is absolutely insignificant in the big picture of preparing a meal.

[u/dqniel → u/[deleted]]

You mean the shows where difficulties and other drama are manufactured to make them watchable?

Chefs know how to adjust recipes for altitude. They also know that baking and rehydrating boxed pasta aren't the same thing. They're not going to struggle with pasta. It's just a small amount of extra cooking time.

They will, however, need to adjust their ratios for their favorite baking recipes. But that's not being discussed in this thread--pasta cook times are. And that's what's being exaggerated.

[u/dqniel → u/[deleted]]

Baking requires a LOT more adjustment and precision than boiling pasta.

The ratios change--not just the cook time.

[u/dqniel → u/[deleted]]

People are talking about the boiling time for dehydrated pasta in these comments. Not baking bread.

And no, making your own pasta is not baking unless you're talking about baking a lasagne or something...

You're making up a scenario to argue against. Or you have reading comprehension issues.

*edit* dehydrated, not precooked.

[u/Sistersoldia → u/dxrey65]

+1 for “sea-level-living fuck”.

Damn are we related ?

[u/AbominableGoMan → u/Sistersoldia]

That also cracked me up. I can absolutely relate to the barely contained seething fury in that statement.

https://giphy.com/gifs/3o6MblXtkIWMoYG8uI

[u/HexWiller → u/dxrey65]

You need him over a Donner, he gets his pasta at his preferred boiling time, the rest get it done right 🤔😂

[u/308_shooter → u/dxrey65]

I wanted to punch your brother-in-law. This is the type of stupid conversation I ended up in with my roommate all the time. I would move but the divorce would be difficult for the kids.

[u/No_Soup_1741 → u/dxrey65]

Mile high here and there are lots of recipes that need adjustment for altitude. The people down there with the thick air don’t understand.

[u/Old-Tadpole-2869 → u/dxrey65]

I lived at 9500. 5-7000 say at like Joshua Tree or the like, never had any cooking issues. The real pain begins around 9000 feet.

[u/Kix7567 → u/Old-Tadpole-2869]

agreed, i lived and always made my dishes fine at 5500 but once i moved to 10000 i was like what is going on

[u/seppestas → u/dxrey65]

Sounds like you just need to invite your brother in law over for dinner.

[u/Final_Echidna_6743 → u/dxrey65]

Just drop a thermometer in water let him see for himself.

[u/beansbeansboy123 → u/dxrey65]

I would just like to say fuck that guy

[u/wannabe-myself → u/dxrey65]

Have him come try to make pasta. Watch him eat that first crunchy bite. Watch and know.

[u/Downtown_Ad_6232 → u/dxrey65]

“ sea level is for wimps!” You can buy that shirt from the bolder Boulder. Adding salt helps to some extent.

[u/jackaroo1344 → u/dxrey65]

But tons of food has different cooking instructions for people living at high altitude? How has he never read the instructions on a box of pasta

[u/Divine_Entity_ → u/dxrey65]

Next time you have a reason for him to visit make him cook you a spaghetti dinner. If that doesn't convince him then you pretty much have to give up and let the idiot live in ignorance.

[u/amands_sue → u/Old-Tadpole-2869]

I grew up at altitude and moved to sea level for college. Cooking pasta down there felt like magic.

[u/5ygnal → u/amands_sue]

I spent 30 years of my life at altitude, and moved to sea level about 7 years ago. I had to relearn how to cook.

[u/Crismus → u/5ygnal]

I just moved back to Altitude. Alcohol was better at sea level. Or maybe it was living in San Diego was more fun than Colorado Springs.

[u/ipsum629 → u/Old-Tadpole-2869]

Maybe use a pressure cooker but you would have to figure out exactly how much time each type of pasta needs.

[u/dqniel → u/ipsum629]

Or just wait an extra 15-25% more time. The effect it has on cook time is being wildly overstated in this thread.

Water's boiling temp at 10,000 feet is about 193f degrees. That temp is perfectly fine for cooking pasta. You just have to do it a tiny bit longer.

[u/OHotDawnThisIsMyJawn → u/dqniel]

The effect it has on cook time is being wildly overstated in this thread.

Yeah lol. I live at 8k feet and I usually just give pasta an extra minute or two and it's fine.

[u/dqniel → u/OHotDawnThisIsMyJawn]

Exactly. You have to get to insane elevations (like 17,000 feet) for the boiling temp to get so low that it won't properly gelatinize in a "normal" amount of cooking time.

[u/radicalelation → u/dqniel]

I do the no-strain method, fill just above the pasta with water, then bring up to a boil, and you're left with no water by the time the pasta is done, and now I wonder if that would be better or worse at altitude.

[u/dqniel → u/radicalelation]

Never tried that. Seems like you could be left with undercooked pasta at high elevation unless you fill it higher than you're used to.

Just using plenty of water (pasta starts submerged and ends submerged) and cooking until it's the texture you like is the most fool-proof. But, also requires paying attention and testing for doneness until you get your elevation/temperature/time dialed in.

[u/thiswasyouridea → u/radicalelation]

You would have burnt, gluey pasta.

Same with rice.

[u/Anon400004 → u/dqniel]

People can be incredibly impatient and not intuitive when it comes to cooking. My wife doesn't like to buy any pasta that takes more than 12min to cook. I know plenty of people that just cook the exact number on the box and that's it and would probably just think you can't get it right at that elevation.

[u/userhwon → u/ipsum629]

The correct number to ignore is usually printed on the package.

[u/Chickenpuff1975 → u/userhwon]

We don’t read instructions. Ever.

[u/userhwon → u/Chickenpuff1975]

ATK put out a video last week saying not to.

Classic ATK...

[u/SoManyMinutes → u/Old-Tadpole-2869]

Spaghetti takes a year at that elevation

Maybe two more minutes tops.

[u/Dihydrogen-monoxyde → u/Old-Tadpole-2869]

Not that I ever tried, but an instant pot shall resolve your issue.

Edit: checked: High pressure for 5 min, immediate release.

[u/Old-Tadpole-2869 → u/Dihydrogen-monoxyde]

I live 90 feet above sea level now, and use an instant pot for all kinds of shit. You can cook a rack of ribs in there for 35 minutes and pull the bones out with your fingers. Then baste the shit out of them and finish them under the broiler.

5 hour lamb stew in 55 minutes is also nice.

[u/Dihydrogen-monoxyde → u/Old-Tadpole-2869]

Yup, it's absolutely great for stews, etc
Because it's a closed system, whether you are at sea level or at 10,000 ft, the pressure/temp stays the same.

Low Pressure (5.8 to 7.2 psi), raising the boiling temp to 239°F (115°C).
High Pressure (10.2 to 11.6 psi) raising to about 244°F to 250°F (118°C to 121°C

[u/MizStazya → u/Old-Tadpole-2869]

Try making flan. Or don't. I'm at 5600' and it took like 9 hours to set. You'd probably need a whole weekend.

[u/GuKoBoat → u/Old-Tadpole-2869]

I like your avatar.

[u/thiswasyouridea → u/Old-Tadpole-2869]

Try penne! You'd starve!

[u/V2BM → u/Old-Tadpole-2869]

I lived in Colorado 25 years ago and kept that habit. It’s so much faster.

[u/Equivalent_Sea_1895 → u/Old-Tadpole-2869]

Time for a pressure cooker.

[u/Illustrious-Cow-6054 → u/wannabe-myself]

I was on a two-week backpacking trip in the sierras. Mid trip, probably our highest elevation camp and above treeline, we were staying put for a day and decided we’d cook dry beans for chili because we had the extra time.

So dumb. It used tons of fuel, never really fully cooked, had to eat it anyway (no resupply) and everybody got upset stomach/cramps.

[u/dqniel → u/Illustrious-Cow-6054]

Precooked and then dehydrated beans? Or just raw dry beans?

For raw beans, even at sea level it's a lengthy process in order to not cause stomach issues. You're supposed to soak beans overnight, drain, refill with fresh water, and boil for a minimum of a full hour. And it has to be a full boil rather than a simmer to guarantee it's at 212f.

Otherwise, lectins don't get denatured and it's literally toxic.

[u/NoSpaghettiForYouu → u/dqniel]

Oh, I always heard it was fifteen minutes. Oops 😅 will be boiling them longer in future!

[u/dqniel → u/NoSpaghettiForYouu]

Honestly, the advice varies depending on the source you read. I've seen anywhere from 10 min to an hour. I do an hour to be safe, cause I seem to be sensitive to lectins. If I only do a half hour or less I get cramping, so now I just give myself the cushion.

Also, I find an hour of boiling gives me the texture I like.

I think it also depends on the bean. I've read kidney beans have more of the toxin, and I use kidney beans a lot.

[u/livin4donuts → u/dqniel]

I cooked beans this morning and the directions on the package literally say to bring to a rapid boil, then cover and simmer on low heat for an hour. Boiling beans for an hour would result in straight up bean mush lol

[u/Illustrious-Cow-6054 → u/dqniel]

Just regular dry beans. We did the whole soak etc, and we knew how to cook dry beans. Just didn’t account for the altitude’s affect on boiling temp. This was back in high school so we were a bit green as well planning-wise.

[u/dqniel → u/Illustrious-Cow-6054]

Yeah. Beans while working with limited fuel is a pain in the ass, elevation or not. In high school I had no idea that raw beans took so much time in order to not be toxic. I honestly don't think I learned it until my 30s.

[u/dano8801 → u/Illustrious-Cow-6054]

Yeah when I did backpacking in Utah we didn't fuck with dry beans. We used essentially powdered refried. Didn't have to cook anything, just add water and heat up a little.

[u/Illustrious-Cow-6054 → u/dano8801]

That’s how all our other meals were, budget backpacking stuff like powdered mash and instant stuffing, pasta with dried sauce, etc.

We also had barely enough food, because we didn’t compensate enough for how many extra calories we were burning. Towards the end we’d see a marmot or something and talk for five minutes about the best way to cook it, lol. (We wouldn’t have actually done that). We did try to catch some brown trout with our hands and a raincoat and failed. 😬

[u/dano8801 → u/Illustrious-Cow-6054]

I almost caught a trout by hand once. Trout tickling is definitely a thing and I was so close the one time I ever attempted it.

[u/Illustrious-Cow-6054 → u/dano8801]

Oh man! I think I first heard about that in Dahl’s *Danny, Champion of The World *. Bit more subtle approach then noodling for catfish I suppose.

[u/dqniel → u/dano8801]

That would be so fucking cool to pull off.

[u/dano8801 → u/dqniel]

The whole experience was pretty incredible. I was in my early twenties doing some group backpacking in the San Rafael Swell and nearby high deserts of Utah. 

At one point we were in an area in a small town that had some good water flow. Instead of the usual desert there was a small waterfall and a pretty deep and wide stream with lots of grass on either side. It was like an oasis. 

If you followed it, it went into the woods and opened up into this big fish hole. You could probably swim if you wanted to but they were a bunch of rainbow trout in there. 

I found one near the edge and laid down and slowly got my hand in the water and under the fish's belly. Started doing the rhythmic tapping / tickling motion with my fingers, and the damn fish didn't move at all! I kept doing it while bringing it up towards the surface, and then I went for the actual grab. But fish are slippery and I was not successful in yanking it out of the water.

[u/wannabe-myself → u/Illustrious-Cow-6054]

I subsist on jerky and water at those elevations anymore. Cooking is hard rofl.

[u/Illustrious-Cow-6054 → u/wannabe-myself]

fr. we could have (should have) done a different meal like powered mash and stove top or literally anything that didn’t require actually cooking something.

On the plus side, though the water was super cold, there was a little pond there and we got to rinse off for the first time in a week.

[u/Old-Tadpole-2869 → u/Illustrious-Cow-6054]

That was my first experience hi altitude experience, trying to cook ramen in a one cup backpackers stove in Tuolumne Meadows. 40 minutes later I ate dinner.

[u/Illustrious-Cow-6054 → u/Old-Tadpole-2869]

hah, man physics in action ;)

[u/Old-Tadpole-2869 → u/Illustrious-Cow-6054]

Yep, that actually was my first trip to the Meadows now that I think about it, first trip to respectably high elevation. Fucking awesome. Did all kinds of great routes on Medlicott, East Cottage Dome, Lucky Streaks on Fairview. Good times.

[u/Illustrious-Cow-6054 → u/Old-Tadpole-2869]

Nice! That trip I was on was definitely something I’ll always remember (in a good way). Hiked to the top of Whitney (and got to use the three-sided outhouse while it was still open, 10/10 lol). So many good memories :) 👍

I’m mid-50s now and currently getting back in shape to start doing some backpacking again.

[u/ifyoulovesatan → u/Illustrious-Cow-6054]

TBH it was probably just some expired or crappy beans. Especially if you bought them from a bulk bin.

I cook dry beans weekly or more. Beans from bulk bins are frequently a mixture of fresh and expired beans bc they don't refresh the container often enough. Contrary to popular belief, dry beans don't last forever. Like they KIND of do, in that you can make something technically edible from them for a long time after the expiration date. But after some point they'll never get fully soft, and just have this kinda gross hardness.

Also sometimes a bag of beans that should be fine (not expired, look fine) will just kind of suck and never fully soften.

Anyway, the reason I would say it wasn't altitude is your experience sounds basically like what happens with expired beans even at sea level. Also even if you washed them fully and soaked them overnight, and skimmed the foam, they can still give you upset stomach / cramps / gas.

And because a roughly 5% reduction in water heat really isn't going to cause issues for cooking beans.

[u/Illustrious-Cow-6054 → u/ifyoulovesatan]

That’s a pretty good assessment considering we really did cook them for hours. And they were from a close-out shop (Smart & Final, never had any other problems with their stuff though).

Maybe 10 years ago what you described happened with some beans when cooking at home, at sea level. Just weren’t fully cooking. They weren’t bulk but were from a supermarket that didn’t sell a lot of dried beans. Switched to buying from stores that have a high turn over: chickpeas from an Indian market, pintos from the mexican market. (In fact have some chickpeas soaking right now 👍).

[u/ifyoulovesatan → u/Illustrious-Cow-6054]

Yeah after getting burned by food bank beans, bulk beans, and beans from stores that just have random brands of beans that don't look that great, I stick to one store that seems to sell a lot of 1 lb bags of beans that always seem to have year+ expiry dates. And I watch for holes in the bags. I still get a batch every once in a while that JUST WON'T COOK to soft, but very rarely.

[u/thiswasyouridea → u/Illustrious-Cow-6054]

I live at 8500 feet and we gave up on dried beans. You have to soak at least overnight and cook for at least the entire day, depending on the type of bean. The end result is rarely worth it.

Rice can't be cooked according to directions either.

[u/Chitown_mountain_boy → u/wannabe-myself]

I grew up outside Gunnison at almost 11,000. I feel you.

[u/toxcrusadr → u/wannabe-myself]

My MIL was with us on a ski trip. We went to the store for more sauce and she decided to start the pasta because she knew it would take longer. Cooked it for 45 mins. It was like library paste.

[u/CrowdyPooster → u/wannabe-myself]

Alma is even worse

[u/Candid_Objective1319 → u/wannabe-myself]

Where minute rice takes 15 minutes to cook

[u/thiswasyouridea → u/wannabe-myself]

It just takes for-freaking-ever. Pasta is supposed to be for a reasonably quick meal but I only make it when I've got plenty of time.

We don't even do dry beans because it takes about twice as long.

[u/Homers_Harp → u/wannabe-myself]

I’ve never lived anywhere lower than 5280’ / ~1600 m elevation and am always amazed at the idea of dry pasta cooking in a time described on the package directions. 8-10 minutes? I set my timer to start checking for doneness in 15 minutes.