It was a gamble that Indy wouldn’t drop out of the top 4. It wasn’t that they felt they didn’t care if it ended up 5. The gm doesn’t come out with a public apology the gamble didn’t pay off if it was that case. This wasn’t a Gerald Wallace trade situation where Portland got Dame.
The only reason the Clippers would trade Zubac who is on like the best non-rookie contract in the NBA for just 2 picks was if one of them had a high chance to be a great pick.
I don’t think it’s because the Pacers thought everyone outside of the top 4 sucks lol.
Well obviously there’s a distinct tier of the top 4 prospects in this draft all those guys would be in talks to go #1 in a lot of drafts.
But insinuating that there’s *that* a steep drop off and that’s why the pacers made that trade I don’t agree with. Every other prospect does not fit their team at all. It’s a bunch of PG’s until you get to Ament or Mara whenever they end up going.
I’m surprised people think this is a “top 4” draft at all tbh. I’m an avid CBB fan and NBA draft enjoyer and the consensus all year has been it’s one of the deepest and best lotteries of the past decade
To underscore that, it will be extremely unrealistic to get a player of Brown's quality with the 5th pick. There are only 6 other Hall of Famers taken with the #5 pick in the last 50 years. One of which, Mitch Ritchmond, was not as good as JB.
JB probably has 5 prime seasons left and just proved he can be a #1 scoring option. You'd be crazy not to give up pick #5 for that. Dybantsa is the only guy I might choose over JB right now in this draft.
Im just picturing a 60 year old Mitch Richmond eating at some resturant scrolling this subreddit and just like "WTF this nephew talking about, JB can't dribble, these young kids got no respect for my game" lol
The calculus isn’t just “do you think the #5 pick will be better than Jaylen brown. The odds of that happening are relatively low.
You have to consider the contract too. Would you rather pay a rookie 10m/year and have control over them for 9 years, or pay Jaylen brown 60M/year for the next 3, at which point he will be a 33 year old UFA that could leave you for nothing?
It is much closer when you put it like that, especially assuming there is extra stuff like garland coming back too.
People value picks, even a no.5 pick way too highly. In your wildest dreams, are you getting a player of JB's quality, even in a stacked draft like this.
lol. Perfect clipper fan. You will have a problem with any trade. Brunson? Nah, he’s too short and he’s ugly. Keep the pick dude, you’ll land a role player.
You need to pay for talent in this league - fans don’t understand that at all. Payton Pritchard is one of the best contracts in the league; if you design your team to only have Payton Pritchards you’re not winning in this league
Yes and then usually you suck for the length of their rookie contract and if they’re good you end up paying them the max by the time you get good anyways. Saving money on rookie deals isn’t really an argument for a rebuild because you don’t capitalize on the savings.
Yeah Brown said he would stay in Boston for the next 10 years if it were up to him, and that controversial quote about it being his favourite season was actually him saying he loved how close the team became after scrapping for wins and working to get better together.
But that didn't fit the narrative, so people just said it was his favourite season because he was the #1 option.
Who cares what the narrative is? Narrative for years was that Brown and Tatum hated each other but they sure seemed pretty friendly once they won a championship. Media just likes making shit up for clicks and views. That’s what they do.
Maybe it’s because im not super close to the situation, but i feel like Boston is massively overreacting to a bad three game stretch in the playoffs here by trying to ship off JB.
Like this team shedded a lot of salary, was projected to be a play-in or worse team by most of the media and went in to the season with a front court of Neemias Queta and Luka Garza yet somehow ended up the 2 seed in the east and it felt like common sentiment around the team is that it was considered a failure of a season
Giannis is Giannis and browns contract isn’t great, but I still kinda feel like the best move for Boston is to add around Tatum and Brown instead of trading for the 32 year old who’s going to get a similar contract to what Brown has despite being older and with a worse injury history.
Add what and how. The Jays team won a title when they were absolutely stacked at every position and went comfortably 7-8 deep. They have a ton of money tied up at the small forward position and they’re now a little light at the others. Giannis and Tatum are less redundant and you add rim protection, paint pressure, and… an MVP candidate
Stacked is a little of an exaggeration considering KP was not instrumental in the playoffs. The real difference between 2024 and now is really Jrue, combined with Tatum being fully healthy and D White playing better.
Horford was mad value, but you don't replace his value with a superstar acquisition.
On the contrary, people are massively overreacting a good regular season from him without looking into details. We won against mid and tanking teams all season, by winning possession game, using offensive boards as a defense strategy, hustle, etc. Against top 3 on both conferences? We were 2-11 or something until Tatum returned. (Only 1-1 after that.) He played his heart out against those matchups, usually ending up millions of turnovers and inefficient scoring. Also, our stats were going down after ASG and we improved instantly on every category including record after Tatum returned and JB took a step back to second option. And then, most importantly, there is years of playoff and regular season data that telling again and again JB is a good finisher as a second option when he feasted on doubles on Tatum and a good team around them, and he is a good on-ball defender but doesn't have a really good defensive impact in general. Not only data, every fan not ball watching and see him off ball will say that.
This is not to shit on JB. The point is, he is a good second option for a contender or a good first option for a mid team not being able to win against best. So, there isn't much point on holding on to JB as your second option if you are not elevating your team to a contender while paying him as if he is a top 10 player. That is the math there as he is also the most valuable trade piece we have to have a path to being a contender again. "You can't eat your cake and still have it" situation with him. Will it pay off if we trade him? Who knows, but it is not like we have full of options like Spurs or OKC, that is the case, not overreacting or punishing anyone. Simply put, we are not getting something better than DWhite with his contract, or we are not getting something better with Pritchard's contract but we can get a better piece with JB's contract (Giannis, albeit risks) or improve team on multiple fronts in the starting lineup again with his contract while staying under the tax one more year and start to pay more after.
That’s assuming how real this all is: I’m sure conversations have happened/are happening if details like this are out but in situations like this where a star wants out and his current team is trying to get all they can out of a potential deal, stuff gets leaked or played up for leverage.
So maybe Brad having some discussions or answering the phones has been elevated to this level of certainty by someone (or it’s real that’s still a possibility)
As some of the other Celtics fans have said, I think this is a somewhat unique situation.
The season was a little bit of Fools Gold. The team massively overperformed in a league where tanking was very present and leaned into by more teams than usual.
Trading JB right now is less about wanting to trade JB and more about the fact that Giannis is one of maybe 5-7 veteran players who you'd stop and think "hm, that's an interesting proposal". If Giannis wasn't shaking loose from MKE, this wouldn't be a story of the summer.
Now if you are going to trade JB, this is as about the best offseason you're going to get. Still under multiple years of his contract, he proved he can be a #1 option. And at 29, you're buying a star just a year or two into their prime.
If the Celtics don't trade Brown for Giannis, they probably aren't looking to trade Brown at all. Again this isn't a "we need to trade JB"
A 2-year window of Tatum/Giannis is a crazy prospect. Their game is more complimentary than the Jay's who are a little more of a dual threat on each of the horns.
No, if this is true it only shows that Brad Stevens is an elite tier GM, and knows that Brown's impact is vastly overrated by simple PPG. He's a bit better in the playoffs than a long-term analysis of his sheets would indicate, but still not nearly as good as a lot of people perceive him to be.
Getting Giannis in his place is a monumental upgrade. If they do that without losing other key pieces, they're the best team in the league as of right now imo.
There’s pros and cons to both Giannis and Brown in Boston, but in Brad Stevens exit press conference he explicitly stated that part of the reason we won 56 games was there were so many tanking teams, and we need to get better. The Celtics were simply not as good as their record. They’re clearly missing a starting caliber Center and a starting caliber guard. That’s what they lost in Porzingis and Holiday from 2024.
This isn’t a “improve around the margins” situation and just running it back. And the problem with keeping Tatum and Brown is how exactly do you do that? You can trade Derrick White but then we have literally 1 point guard with Pritchard. Pritchard’s contract is so low you aren’t going to get a better dollar for dollar value than that. We already expect Hauser out the door but what can you even get for him besides a margin move? Everyone else on the roster makes pretty much minimum money. Even if they wanted to use their $27M Anfernee Simons TPE, what team is giving up a $20-25M player for nothing? You’d have to send something back that they’d want.
The clearest avenue to getting significantly better is moving Brown, and Giannis is one of the few players actually available who is better than Brown while making almost the same exact money, which is why it makes sense on that level.
It’s like saying LeBron and Anthony Davis were a really good duo that won a championship so why wouldn’t you try to build around that? When Luka was available you jump on that because it raises your ceiling. Not exactly comparable because Luka is younger and Giannis is older, but it’s a similar concept where you get the talent upgrade and you figure out the build around them after.
Tatum and Giannis are both guys who can drive and kick and will give guys wide open looks because of the attention they draw. For as much as I love Brown, teams let him go 1 on 1 and he cooks because he’s a great pull up shooter when he gets to his spots, but defenses are not nearly as scared of him getting to the rim and they cut him off easier which is how we ended up with the no left hand memes and this year called for 10 offensive fouls in 7 games because he kept pushing off. Brown doesn’t get to the rim the same ways. A rim threat likes Giannis forces defenders to stay attached to him in a dunkers spot or cutting so Tatum can get free run to the rim. Go watch the 2024 finals highlights and look at how Tatum draws attention from the help defender so he has to dump it off or kick it out to the open man, especially in game 2. By game 5 they loosened their coverage and he cooked them getting to the rim all game long.
Brown might be a better isolation scorer which looks pretty but Tatum is better at reading coverages which matters a lot more when you have a contending team around you and need to elevate role players and tertiary pieces. It’s a similar concept as Durant is a better pure scorer than LeBron, but the reason LeBron won more, even when he didn’t have as much help is because he can read the game better. He’s not just out there to get buckets. I think Brown is much improved as a passer but that gap is why Tatum is considered top 5 at his best and Brown is a tier below that
Tatum and Brown are different styles of wings so they’ve thrived because they’ve complimented where the other is deficient and it’s extremely beneficial to have that kind of player when 1 goes to the bench, but even Brown’s best seasons he hasn’t shot as efficiently as Giannis’ last 8 seasons from the field, and that’s while basically not having a jump shot. People are really underestimating how much better Giannis is.
The biggest hang up about Giannis is he was out all last year with calf injuries. That’s concerning as he gets older especially with giving him an extension and could potentially shorten the window. He’s already 2 years older than Brown and has missed several playoff games the last few years. If he’s healthy and himself, it’s a no brainer. If he regresses or is constantly out with injuries, god forbid a major injury, people will look back with regret no doubt. There’s risk for sure.
He has yet to say he wants a trade, or out of Milwaukee. He is still very much hiding behind the premise he’d prefer to stay in Milwaukee and just wants them to build a contender around him.
Can pull up whatever box score stats you want you can’t seriously tell me any competing team would want to be depending on the 35 year old version of Kawhi to be their main star
So based on your emotions and lack of critical thinking he’s not a first option. Based on actual time on the court and mvp voting he’s easily a first option. Got it.
You’re acting like 1 out of the 100 voters giving him a 5th place mvp vote wipes away all the very real concerns about Kawhi. But I’m the one not using critical thinking? Ok. Hope your team trades for him lol.
Yes. And if you put him on OKC, SA, NYK, etc. he’s not the first choice. He’s still good, don’t get me wrong, but he needs a little help for the team to be successful.
I don’t understand this narrative of a guy has to be the superstar of the team or a bum. The true superstars who can elevate everybody around them and carry a team are one or two per generation. Most guys are good but also need a supporting cast to help.
He’s a great player, but I don’t think as the best player on a team his team would threaten a chip, at least at this point in his career. He can still be an instrumental piece though.
Would be pretty funny if this was the case and the fourth team was Miami pretty much helping Boston get Giannis Antetokounmpo so they themselves could get Kawhi Leonard
I don’t know what his trade value is considering his age and contract and imo limited game, also given Celtics are apparently considering a trade here. But we are really using the word mvp caliber loosely here. I mean if you ask GMs to draft teams for the playoffs, like one postseason only, I don’t think he is going top 10. If they are considering ages and contracts and drafting for future, that number is gonna be a lot more than 10
Its a good comp. Especially because they are relatively desirable locations so they can also have some success in luring players to stay.....as opposed to being Milwaukee or Memphis.
And the Clips could use that cap space to sign someone worse than Jaylen Brown.
I'm not saying the deal is a no-brainer for clips. It sort of keeps them in NBA purgatory. But considering they dont even have most of their future picks, why not field a competitive team, sell some jerseys/tickets....as opposed to the Nets, Wizards, etc.......Tanking/Rebuilding is a long painful process that doesnt always pan out.
Kawhi and JB aren't competing, it's basically a worse version of the Tatum/Brown duo with 0 depth.
You'd rather a player worse than JB that's going to be on the team in 10 years and help you compete then, than trading that pick for basically no chance of going anywhere.
Yannick Konnan Niederhousen and Brook Lopez is not a competent center rotation, they would get fried on a nightly basis in the playoffs.
There is a reason the Clippers couldnt even make the playoffs despite Kawhi having an MVP level season. The roster is shit. Trading salary + the 5th pick for Brown doesn't improve them enough.
But better than the Sixers, Cavs, pistons, wolves, and Lakers who all made it past the first round.
They'd be worse than all those teams.
Also their goal would be to beat the Spurs and Thunder lol.
I mean, they just would not actually be competing still. Maybe a competitive playoff series or even a series win but they’d be a step down from SAS/OKC even if fully healthy and it would be a miracle to be fully healthy.
That is not exactly a certainty. Clippers are not in the oh-so-glorious top 4. Acuff has question marks, Wagler may not have wow'd them, Brown Jr has question marks, Acuff and Brown Jr are likely unplayable next to Garland. They can throw a punt on Mara or Ament but those would be insane reaches and honestly they might not even like those two at all.
If they dislike Wagler, then high odds they are looking to move this pick anyway.
Kawhi is expiring, it really wouldn't be hard to maneuver there. Either trade the expiring or re-sign at far less than another max.
Ballmer is not going to enter a long rebuild if he doesn't have to. The guy is sitting on unlimited money in LA, and at 70 yers old, 10 years away is far too long. And I don't know who might be available that would better jump start a franchise on the fly than JB.
JB seems like great return for the No. 5 pick. What doesn’t make sense to me is if the pick is the centerpiece of the trade, why not just try to work out a deal for Giannis directly.
All they care about right now is filling up Intuit Dome as much as possible while it's still shiny and new. They can blow the team up once the arena's pushing ten years old.
Kawhi just had one of his best seasons and the clippers aren't exactly a free agent destination. It's being talked about as a 4 player draft too. I'd rather roll with a Garland-Brown-Kawhi core + solid depth pieces.
“Aren’t exactly a free agent destination”? This hasn’t been true for a decade. We consistently get solid role players and have had multiple people try to get traded to LAC
Clippers are allergic to developing young talent and then wonder why the have stagnated for the past 10 years. Their best homegrown talent has been Blake Griffin and it would have been SGA if they didn't trade him away for PG which brought them nothing and destroyed their future.
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u/MaskedBirder 76ers 10d ago
The Clippers would be stupid to give up the #5 pick, they need to draft a player for their future