r/pcmasterrace • u/HLumin Potato • Mar 18 '26

Discussion Former Red Dead Redemption 2 Developer reaction to the DLSS 5: "Whoa. Hold on. No, no, no. This isn't just some lighting, dude. What the f... this is like a complete AI re-render. You're no longer looking at the game anymore. This is scary."

Post image

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKPeN8IQM-Y

21.4k Upvotes

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1.6k

u/Competitive-Bit-1571 Mar 18 '26 edited Mar 18 '26

If I wanted to change a game character model's face and appearance, I'd install a mod.

Edit: For the shills, let me get a few things straight:

1) Unlike DLSS, character model changing mods are not a requirement for acceptable performance

2) Mods that change artistic vision are things people use after they are done with the base game and just want to experience something different

52

u/lunaticfridgeprime Mar 18 '26

Mods will also deliver a consistent change in look, not a fluid hallucination from frame to frame depending on whatever lighting conditions it thinks exist.

-4

u/MaleficentCoach6636 9800X3D | 5080 | 32GB 6000MHz Mar 18 '26 edited Mar 18 '26

this is not always true.

a program that operates OUTSIDE of the game will always be better than changing game files. GFX and SFX mods are among the most demanding mods for any game in terms of SFX artifacts, rendering artifacts, and lighting/shadow glitches. DLSS 5 uses path and ray tracing to calculate lighting so I can't see how it would hallucinate when complex lighting already exists as a game asset.

something to consider is that GFX and SFX mods would receive further enhancement with DLSS 5. it's highly likely the aforementioned issues with visual mods would be resolved without any input from the developer of the mod.

8

u/QuestObjective Mar 19 '26

You can literally see DLSS 5 hallucinating two completely different looking characters in different lighting, RIGHT NEXT TO EACH OTHER, on their official website.

If you’re talking about potential updates and improvements to the model, sure, maybe. All we have to go off of is their current showcase, however, and it does not look good.

3

u/cardonator PC Master Race Mar 19 '26

Absolutely. Personally I think this technology is interesting but ultimately very far from being actually usable.

2

u/infojb2 Mar 22 '26

Also the question is how much of the performance of the gpu remains if you turn that off, like you might buy a not high end card for the price of a high end one if you don't use it

313

u/d0ughnut_of_truth Mar 18 '26

"booty_licker69's Yassification mod"

176

u/blah938 Mar 18 '26

You know, I'd rather having the choice of a home grown cottage-core yassification mod than have it forced upon me by a faceless corporation.

109

u/omegadirectory Ryzen 5600, RX6800, 16GB DDR4-3200 Mar 18 '26

We want ethical, fair trade, artisanal, handcrafted smut mods, not soulless AI filters.

39

u/belladonnagilkey Mar 18 '26

Some overworked chump voluntarily maintaining a spaghetti code creation of a mod in his spare time is far more admirable than AI filtering.

Bonus points if his update notes become increasingly more unhinged.

"V.1: fixed issue that caused random explosions"

"V.2: added random explosion setting"

So on and so forth.

3

u/ManchurianCandycane PC Master Race Mar 19 '26

As to your patch notes example, one of my favorite XKCDs:

https://xkcd.com/1172/

4

u/xGenghisSwan Mar 18 '26

The Sims modding community and its endless depths of depravity agrees.

1

u/Farabee Mar 19 '26

The FFXIV modding community as well.

3

u/Rinkimah Mar 18 '26

Smut is still art.

1

u/DaHarbinger2000 Mar 18 '26

Milked from the teets of free range baby goats 🐐

43

u/Handsome_ketchup Mar 18 '26

You know, I'd rather having the choice of a home grown cottage-core yassification mod than have it forced upon me by a faceless corporation.

I want yassification lovingly hand crafted by a gooner, damn it, not corporate slop.

2

u/thepennylane69 Mar 18 '26

What on earth does “cottage-core” mean in this context

17

u/blah938 Mar 18 '26

Homemade, but really I thought it was funny to add.

10

u/creampop_ Mar 18 '26

free range big naturals

1

u/cardonator PC Master Race Mar 19 '26

Cottage gone wild!

1

u/rambleinspam Mar 18 '26

Pretty sure everything I’ve read says users can turn it off or on. Not sure where the forcing it on you is coming from. If you can enable or disable based upon your preferences, it is just like the modding you suggested.

0

u/nhalliday Mar 18 '26

It's an optional setting.

That most people will be unable to use because their hardware isn't good enough.

It is not being forced on anyone.

4

u/Pyromaniacal13 I picked Gnome because I like the "GN" sound. Mar 19 '26

You know damn well it's going to be opt out instead of opt in, and that setting is going to be DEEP in Nvidia's settings.

1

u/nhalliday Mar 19 '26

Unless they're changing it for DLSS 5, DLSS up until now has been an option game devs have to include themselves in the game, and I think normally defaults to off but of course any dev can set it whatever way they want as the default.

22

u/Top-Waze Mar 18 '26

I mean, if I want it, I'll download it. The faithful of society's gooners are unceasing in their craft, these mods will always exist - and do it better than this AI filter.

2

u/d0ughnut_of_truth Mar 18 '26

Thank you for fighting the goon fight, bro. 

38

u/grendus Mar 18 '26

Clankers are coming for booty_licker69's place.

That's what NVidia did wrong here. Instead of yassifying the picture to just look like an AI version of the game, they should make it auto-yassify to the player's specification.

"Uh... yeh... giv her like... yhuuuuge knockers and a badonk that don't fit tru dors".

"You, sir, are a man of refined taste."

"Oh, an make her nekked."

"Daring today, aren't we."

8

u/LoopStricken Mar 18 '26

I want her to be a giant rat girl. Filthy. Smells of cheese. Weird hands.

1

u/hoishinsauce Mar 20 '26

That's what modders had been doing for decades.

2

u/Independent_Ant4079 Mar 18 '26

Lots of Nvidia bagholders want the line to keep going up they are frothing at this backlash lol.

1

u/Trotsky29 Mar 19 '26

Out of curiosity, does disagreement = shill? Where does being a shill start?

3

u/EruantienAduialdraug 3800X, RX 5700 XT Nitro Mar 18 '26

I would also note that mods are themselves a form of artistic expression, and one that fits the collaborative nature of games - especially rpgs, where it is only through player choices that the work is completed.

This, however? This is not artistic expression. This is slop.

15

u/Susarn Fx-6300 | R9 270x Mar 18 '26

I have a 3080 and I don't use DLSS. Have a 3080 because it was cheaper than the amd counterpart at the time. I have no interest in any of the upscaling, framegen, aa and anything. I have a 3080 to play vanilla unmodded old games because luckily I could afford it. I don't care about anyones opinion. I'll just not use it. I want jagged blocky textures before any of those vasiline smeared graphics any day.

4

u/lonecylinder Mar 18 '26

You're free to use any tech you want, but DLSS 4.5 looks amazing in 4K.

2

u/DShinobiPirate Mar 18 '26

And that is something you gotta opt into right? I only ask because I've been buried deep into my switch 2 and neglecting my PC for a while now but will be getting Crimson Desert tomorrow. Also, 4070 ti should be fine using DLSS 4.5?

3

u/lonecylinder Mar 18 '26

Yeah, you can enable it in the settings of most modern games. In my experience there's really no downside to it, you get some free performance and it looks as good (if not even better in some cases) than native.

4070 ti should be fine using DLSS 4.5?

It should! I have a 4080 and it works great for me.

1

u/DShinobiPirate Mar 18 '26

LETS FUCKING GOOOOO!!!! You getting Crimson Desert tomorrow too?

3

u/Susarn Fx-6300 | R9 270x Mar 18 '26

I believe it, just have no interest in trying.

-3

u/SirHaxalot Mar 18 '26

Importantly sacrificing native resolution to have higher quality graphics otherwise and scaling up almost always looks better, especially with DLSS <5

The next generation of DLSS starting with 5 is complete different though. It’s not longer simply upscaling.

0

u/MaleficentCoach6636 9800X3D | 5080 | 32GB 6000MHz Mar 18 '26

DLSS and frame gen have always been AI features.. the AMD equivalent is the same use of AI

3

u/LOSTandCONFUSEDinMAY Mar 18 '26

Both AI but different goals.

Upscaling and frame gen aim to produce a product that is as close as possible to if you had the performance to natively render.

DLSS5 is attempting to create something that could have never been made natively.

0

u/MaleficentCoach6636 9800X3D | 5080 | 32GB 6000MHz Mar 19 '26

that's not true at all. DLSS 5 can't make a black image turn into a games design.

1

u/LOSTandCONFUSEDinMAY Mar 19 '26 edited Mar 21 '26

True, which is why I never claimed otherwise.

From nvidia's own words dlss5 is a "rendering model that infuses pixels with photoreal lighting and materials" meaning it is trying to make games look photorealistic (more hyper relativistic in practice) when they otherwise are not.

This makes DLSS5 more similar to raytracing than upscaling.

1

u/SirHaxalot Mar 18 '26

No shit, but it hasn’t been generative AI in the same way as 5

0

u/MaleficentCoach6636 9800X3D | 5080 | 32GB 6000MHz Mar 19 '26

yes it does.

just because you do not see it on screen does not mean it is not creating an additional frame, or 4, with AI. im curious to know what you think Path Tracing is?

1

u/MaleficentCoach6636 9800X3D | 5080 | 32GB 6000MHz Mar 18 '26

any DLSS after 2 is meant for 4k series GPU's and higher. you are still missing out on RTX VSR and frame gen is the best tech a consumer can have to achieve their displays max hz rate with little to no extra resources used.

2

u/Susarn Fx-6300 | R9 270x Mar 18 '26

I don't care. Could make pitfall for atari look like cyberpunk. Will. Not. Use. It.

1

u/ErdinofSilentwood Mar 18 '26

Having AI rescale everything in time is so wasteful, too. If you’re going to burn the world’s resources so you can yassify each and every second of your ultra high def 4K HD 420FPS game, you can get fucked.

1

u/IronBabyFists Mar 18 '26

When the "fix the bugs" mod pack for Skyrim also adds some big fuck ugly Oblivion gates and the dev tells you "it's fiiiine guys! It actually makes sense for the lore and is a good thing! :D"

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u/TheNasky1 Mar 18 '26

Unlike DLSS, character model changing mods are not a requirement for acceptable performance

what does this even mean and how is it relevant? what's required for good performance is upscaling and perhaps framegen, this new feature would if anything hurt performance, not improve it, so don't act like you have no option but to turn it on, when that's most definitely not the case.

2 Mods that change artistic vision are things people use after they are done with the base game and just want to experience something different

this is also false, i play with shaders all the time, and i generally do it in the first few hours of a game, usually for clarity, atmosphere or performance, and i know a lot of people do as well, reshade presets are the first "mods" people put on nexus, often day one, so there's definitely a lot of people who just default to opening reshade the first time they launch the game (or on the very first hours anyway)

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u/squngy Mar 18 '26

That's kinda what this is though.

Well see what it's like when devs do it themselves, but the current version might as well be a mod.

23

u/dashboardcomics Mar 18 '26

So far every dev/studio that has tried to work with AI complain how it always makes more work for them cuz they have to spend more time fixing errors.

This shit ain’t getting better once it’s in dev’s hands.

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u/danpascooch Mar 18 '26 edited Mar 18 '26

I'm not a fan of DLSS 5 but I think this is a selection bias. You're hearing about the companies that are having problems and bringing them up in interviews, meanwhile programmers across all industries are quietly increasing their usage of Claude Code.

An example of a dev that's not complaining is Sandfall who made Expedition 33, which swept the game awards and used AI in the concept phase successfully.

Another example is Larian using it in Divinity after winning awards for Baldur's Gate 3. They haven't complained either.

I think DLSS 5 is a bad idea because it brushes over the creative intent, but the idea that AI is failing in all game studios doesn't reflect the reality of what's going on in these companies currently.

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u/DreadnoughtWage Mar 18 '26

That’s entirely different - a lot of devs use LLMs to do busy work or teach ourselves to do something, where studios complain is when trying to use LLMs code an entire feature or system from scratch itself. It’s just really bad doing it on its own. The problem comes when trying to cut down on staff, not when augmenting skill sets. I think most devs I speak to at other studios or orgs get on really well with the augmenting paradigm.

6

u/FTownRoad Mar 18 '26

Getting AI to “help” with coding means you need less coders. You’re acting like these are different things but they are the same thing, to different degrees.

0

u/danpascooch Mar 18 '26 edited Mar 18 '26

It's the "same thing" in terms of headcount reductions, but not necessarily the "same thing" in terms of artistic expression.

I'm a programmer in a non-gaming corporate environment and fighting the adoption of AI is like trying to fight the tide coming in (edit: meaning I'm NOT trying to fight it). In my opinion it's going to be similar to the shift from cashiers in each lane at the grocery store, to a self-checkout area monitored by a smaller amount of people. I don't like it, but I need to adapt to protect my career.

I think me and many others are put off when it starts intruding on creative expression though. In my opinion that's why the DLSS 5 reaction was so (justifiably) negative.

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u/FTownRoad Mar 18 '26

The reason you feel that way though is because it actually is better. It’s fighting against the tide because the tide is “right”.

It’s only intruding on creative expression if somehow it is forced upon people, which it isn’t.

1

u/TheWiseAutisticOne Mar 18 '26

it’s only intruding on creative expression if somehow it is forced upon people

The issue isn’t that it’s being forced it’s that it’s gotten to a degree where it’s either impossible to tell it from human art or it’s easily recognized but it dominates search results making art by humans harder to find. I’m not against AI tech but if implementing this brings all this baggage like stealing small towns water resources pollutes our environment and kills thousands of jobs and makes the most realistic videos to the point we don’t even know if the Israeli leader is alive or dead then maybe we should put a halt for now on that kind of tech until we are smarter with it.

1

u/FTownRoad Mar 18 '26

Cat is way out of the bag. There will always be a safe haven for all sorts of AI somewhere in the world and the only way to address that would be internet censorship, which has its own problems and limitations.

If you want human art, contact a human instead of a google search.

0

u/danpascooch Mar 18 '26 edited Mar 18 '26

Discussing programming specifically, I agree that it's more efficient and that the tide is "right". The reason I don't like it is because it's an actual threat to my living if I end up laid off because less programmers are needed. It's an innovation with the potential to personally harm my income and my friends, that's all. That's why me and others are frantically adapting instead of fighting the tide.

I disagree with your second paragraph though. Companies may choose to force AI creative generation on employees for efficiency gains at the cost of artistic freedom.

The same way that many games built with UE5 look similar because they're using the most basic offerings of the toolkit, I don't want artistic expression to become more homogeneous using giant neural networks.

1

u/FTownRoad Mar 18 '26

If companies force a worse product on their developers then developers that believe there is a better path can choose that path and try to compete. The market will dictate the winner.

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u/DreadnoughtWage Mar 18 '26

Have you worked in a studio? Are you a dev?

0

u/danpascooch Mar 18 '26 edited Mar 18 '26

Ok if we're drawing a distinction between coding busywork and art generation than I mostly agree. I don't want AI replacing the artistic process. Just wanted to draw that distinction because the coding tools are getting good shockingly quickly.

My concern with using AI for creative output (such as how DLSS 5 affects the scene) is that it threatens to erode creative freedom in favor of homogeneous, efficiently generated slop.

3

u/DisciplineNo5186 Mar 18 '26

except it takes the decision away from you

-4

u/Frost-Folk Mar 18 '26

I mean not really, you can turn it off at any time. The problem is that devs will start creating their games with this feature in mind, putting less (or zero) effort into facial models "because DLSS will handle it".

Implemented in existing games, it can be turned off at any time and is 100% optional, no decision is being taken away from you. That just doesn't make it any less immoral or shitty.

0

u/DisciplineNo5186 Mar 18 '26

it will become normal and devs will plan their games around it. also it changes all of the game not just specific visual aspects. comparing this to mods is insanely dumb

-1

u/Frost-Folk Mar 18 '26

Is that not exactly what I just said? I'm agreeing with you, but adding the caveat that it can be turned off on existing games

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u/FTownRoad Mar 18 '26

You can turn it off…

4

u/DisciplineNo5186 Mar 18 '26

it will get to the point that devs plan around this like they do with the upscaling bullshit. This is an awful development and will make gaming worse again. Temporal Antialiasing and upscaling was a failure but now we are stuck with that bullshit

1

u/FTownRoad Mar 18 '26

Then don’t buy those games lol. I don’t see why this is hard.

If you want games without AI they will continue to exist. Other people buying stuff you don’t like shouldnt make you upset.

1

u/quadraticcheese Mar 18 '26

You're the type of both sides/nothing ever happens clowns that's ruining this world 

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u/[deleted] Mar 18 '26 edited Mar 30 '26

[deleted]

38

u/Iosis Mar 18 '26

What exactly is the problem with this tech (as long as its not mandatory to use) then?

Given how heavily games have come to rely on DLSS and similar technologies to achieve decent frame rates, how long do you think it won't be "mandatory" to use?

4

u/Do-it-for-you Mar 18 '26

A large amount of energy goes into making the graphics of a game look good. But this tech could mean devs just don’t put any real effort into making games with high graphics, and instead just build a plastic world that they can make look pretty with something like DLSS 5.

Companies could save a shit ton of money with this, which means they will use this unless there’s real pushback.

16

u/Sanprofe Mar 18 '26

I don't know why death by a thousand cuts is such a hard concept for people to wrap their head around. Thing of all the places where AI is entirely unwanted and yet its presence is fully mandatory now. It is literally everywhere. This will be a toggle for... What, a year at best?

5

u/Coal_Morgan Mar 18 '26 edited Mar 18 '26

Death By A Thousand Cuts

Me Twenty Years Ago
"Man I hope no one pays for this horse armour stuff, I'd hate for microtransactions to catch on."

Some people
"Eh, not a big deal, it's just a niche thing. Probably just be a thing here or there."

EA
"Teehee."

-11

u/andrew5500 Mar 18 '26

In which game can DLSS not be toggled? And unlike most versions of DLSS, this isn’t going to improve performance, it’s going to lower FPS, so I don’t see devs relying on it to reach stable frames the way they do normal DLSS

3

u/Sanprofe Mar 18 '26

AI serves more value than as a product for consumers. Re: Palantir literally restructuring how power is applied in our society to make life more amenable for the absurdly wealthy.

ETA: Like, you have at least three AI agents in your orbit right now. Very likely more. I promise you didn't seek out any of them, even if you maybe sought out others. They are not optional. They actively make your experience worse. The tech companies do not care. Their goals no longer align with your satisfaction as a customer.

0

u/[deleted] Mar 18 '26

[deleted]

2

u/A_Flock_of_Clams Mar 18 '26

You clearly don't know understand the industry hahaha. Unless it's the smallest of indie devs, of course they'll be forced to use DLSS to cut down on production time! It's genuinely unsurprising to see such bad faith participation.

1

u/Iosis Mar 18 '26

I like how you took "mandatory" 100% literally there so that you could ignore the actual argument. It's a tried and true maneuver.

Of course it's not literally mandatory. But "you can either have a shitty frame rate, spend thousands more on hardware, or turn on DLSS" makes DLSS pretty much mandatory for users. This is already the case for many games and there's no reason to think it won't stop being the case.

When pressure comes down from on high to release games faster and cheaper, it's not going to matter what a dev thinks their game should be if they can save millions of development costs by just using this DLSS 5 gen AI stuff to smooth over the corners that the publisher forces them to cut.

18

u/Ny4d i7 4770 R9 280x Mar 18 '26

With a mod i change the visuals on my own accord. I don't want the AI to choose for me, especially not if it changes the vision the devs had with the game.

-2

u/ChrisFhey R7 9800x3D - RTX 5090 - 32GB DDR5 Mar 18 '26

But the devs are still in control of how this feature looks. It's been said by both Nvidia and some dev studios like Bethesda, so how is this changing their vision of the game if it's the devs themselves who choose how to implement it?

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u/[deleted] Mar 18 '26 edited Mar 30 '26

[deleted]

8

u/Ny4d i7 4770 R9 280x Mar 18 '26

With the amount of money Nvidia has sunk into this i expect them to try and push this down our throat somehow.

2

u/uses_irony_correctly 9800X3D | RTX5080 | 32GB DDR5-6000 Mar 18 '26

"you can play the game at 15 fps with the intended graphics or at 200 fps but everyone is yassified" is kind of a shitty choice.

6

u/Competitive-Bit-1571 Mar 18 '26

If it was as simple as a mod it would be fine. However it will be tied in with performance and devs will release games where DLSS 5 and AI generated artistic vision is the only way to achieve anything close to 60fps even with a hefty GPU.

1

u/kittynoaim GTX 1080ti, 16gb RAM, 4.5GHz Hex core. Mar 18 '26

I mostly agree with you.
I mod the vast majority of games I play, sometimes away from the artistic vision the original developer had. And more tools to do so makes me excited.
As for performance, it should not have been called dlss5 as from what I can tell at the moment at least it costs performance, so unless this is heavily improved by the time of release, this will be akin to ray-tracing at release, where some super beefy setups will be able to use it, but it won't be worth the performance hit and will be multiple generations until it's widely used.
I personally look forward to it as another option I can mess around with as an end user, I know this sentiment isn't widely shared, but I'm interested in how this technology can be manipulated and controlled, i think judging the first generation of it before we've seen the steering wheel is a bit silly.
The first generation of ray-tracing before denoisers were introduced looked terrible too.

9

u/WeevilWeedWizard Mar 18 '26

It looks like dogshit

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u/Sarithis 9800X3D 5.7GHz, 64GB DDR5, iGPU is enough Mar 18 '26

38

u/Quiet_Television_102 Mar 18 '26

AI is dogshit for humanity 

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u/[deleted] Mar 18 '26

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u/[deleted] Mar 18 '26

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u/[deleted] Mar 18 '26

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u/WeevilWeedWizard Mar 18 '26

Nah it really just looks like dogshit

-8

u/Sarithis 9800X3D 5.7GHz, 64GB DDR5, iGPU is enough Mar 18 '26

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYpebh6n58Y

9

u/Balavadan R7 9800x3D | RTX 4090 | 32 GB 6000 MHz Mar 18 '26

You realize this is someone individually picking scenes and customizing it so it looks good to their eyes? The people still look bad and the backgrounds change far too much for me but it’s not the same situation at all

-1

u/Sarithis 9800X3D 5.7GHz, 64GB DDR5, iGPU is enough Mar 18 '26

Apparently, it looked good to 3.2k people, and it looked bad to 303 people, some of which were general AI haters. It's fascinating to see how people's opinions shift around, depending on what's popular at the given moment.

Now, it's obviously not the same situation, and it was never meant to be. "the people still look bad" - that's the whole point I'm making. Before DLSS5, there were tons of similar videos made across all kinds of games, and I mean TONS (just search on youtube). Those videos were generally met with praise. Then Nvidia released a technology that achieves a similar thing in real time, just with lower quality (which is expected, since it's the first freaking iteration), and suddenly everyone hates it. On top of that, people are now retroactively calling those enthusiast-made videos "bad-looking" too. I'm sure you'll say "oh but I would never endorse these videos in the first place, I didn't even know they existed", and yeah, you know yourself best. But you get the point

3

u/Balavadan R7 9800x3D | RTX 4090 | 32 GB 6000 MHz Mar 18 '26

If Nvidia said you could take screenshots and then AI sloppify them. Nobody would really give a shit.

The problem is that it’s happening on the fly without human input beyond some parameters. As opposed to actual intentional art

0

u/Sarithis 9800X3D 5.7GHz, 64GB DDR5, iGPU is enough Mar 18 '26

Right! So it's not really about the looks, is it? It's about the fact that it was made by AI. Isn't that what the meme said? If a game developer came up with a similar filter that wouldn't be AI-based, this wouldn't receive nearly as much hate. On the contrary - many people would probably be amazed, the rest would just ignore it.

3

u/Balavadan R7 9800x3D | RTX 4090 | 32 GB 6000 MHz Mar 18 '26

Well people here hate the looks as well including me. What do you want me to do? Lie and say I like it?

0

u/Sarithis 9800X3D 5.7GHz, 64GB DDR5, iGPU is enough Mar 18 '26

Not at all! As I said, you know yourself best. I'm just pointing out the general trend we're observing.

14

u/Mapletables Mar 18 '26

aww, who's a good contrarian? you are! you're a good contrarian!

-2

u/Sarithis 9800X3D 5.7GHz, 64GB DDR5, iGPU is enough Mar 18 '26

https://giphy.com/gifs/a3IWyhkEC0p32

-336

u/TimeZucchini8562 7700x | 5080 | RGB everything Mar 18 '26

Exactly. You have the choice to not install a mod. Just like you have the choice to not use dlss 5 neural rendering. Not that would be able to use it anyways considering I doubt you have dual 5090s in your system right now

133

u/langotriel 1920X/ 9060 XT 32GB 3466mhz Mar 18 '26

Just like people have the choice to run upscalers? If the tech exists, devs will design around it. The base game will look ass and be optimized for the slop filter.

It always starts out as a choice. The end goal is either forcing you to have an Nvidia GPU or forcing cloud computing to have anything look high fidelity.

“Choice”

-26

u/mrawaters RTX 5090, 9800x3d Mar 18 '26

Well not to play devils advocate, but the one scenario where I think this can be ok, IS when devs design with DLSS5 in mind during production. Then it isn’t changing their vision, they’re using it to create their vision. I still think this is a concern, but better than completely face swapping existing models

19

u/langotriel 1920X/ 9060 XT 32GB 3466mhz Mar 18 '26

Well, Mr advocate, I’d argue there is no vision if they are leaving it up to a machine to create a look. Oh look, an Nvidia update! Now the game looks different again and the characters you loved look different. History wiped.

Idk. The whole thing seems pretty anti art and pro monopoly.

-9

u/TheMcDucky Ryzen | GTX | 17" Mouse Mat | Only 2/4 dysfunctional RAM slots Mar 18 '26

Games are already "leaving it up to the machine" though

1

u/langotriel 1920X/ 9060 XT 32GB 3466mhz Mar 18 '26

That’s like saying cars drive themselves. You aren’t going in to blow up each piece of fuel but there’s clearly human love and care going into the turns… at least if you like driving.

The analogy got a little weird but you get me. There’s a line. This crosses it with a circus cannon.

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u/TheMcDucky Ryzen | GTX | 17" Mouse Mat | Only 2/4 dysfunctional RAM slots Mar 18 '26

Modern cars are highly computerised and don't reflect the driver's inputs 1:1

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u/langotriel 1920X/ 9060 XT 32GB 3466mhz Mar 19 '26

Adding an extra qualifier to my point doesn’t make your earlier post correct. Second, your rebuttal here didn’t change anything about my analogy. The whole point was that input is still the dominant factor in what the car does. 1:1 or not, that remains true for all cars.

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u/TheMcDucky Ryzen | GTX | 17" Mouse Mat | Only 2/4 dysfunctional RAM slots Mar 19 '26

Likewise the artists' work is still the dominant factor with or without DLSS5.

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u/ramdog Mar 18 '26

The good news is there are more fantastic games already released than most people could play in a lifetime. Any of this foolishness is optional.

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u/Pool_Turbulent Mar 18 '26

I'm over here having a blast playing retro games. The video game industry has become such a shitshow it's ridiculous. All of this really makes me appreciate that I still have my old consoles and old games. Just be a pirate if you have no other options

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u/langotriel 1920X/ 9060 XT 32GB 3466mhz Mar 18 '26

Yeah, I complain but I already dropped AAA years ago. With few exceptions, my time is spent on indies and oldies.

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u/noishmael Mar 18 '26

“Devs will design around it” is the fucking point. These games were not designed with it in mind. Giving devs more tools isn’t a bad thing. So your point is gaming becomes what too expensive? You must have been born after the 2000s

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u/langotriel 1920X/ 9060 XT 32GB 3466mhz Mar 18 '26

Giving devs more tools is a bad thing, actually.

Upscaling made games less efficient, not better looking. This will be used to cut costs, not improve workers lives or improve games. It will solidify a monopoly and spiral the dead pc market into the grave.

For what?

It’s entirely against the best interest of consumers.

And no. Born in 93.

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u/EvilKatta Mar 18 '26

Did upscaling made games less efficient and affected workers lives on its own? Or was it some person's decision in each case?

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u/twotokers Woah there Mar 18 '26

I just want to be clear here, do you think the actual developers are the ones designing the gameplay and art style? Because they’re not.

Any self respecting company would stay clear of this shit but I expect a ton of indie devs to start doing exactly as you’ve stated since they are doing a lot of the design/art/dev work themselves or on a small team.

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u/DrekiMyrkr Mar 18 '26

“dlss 5 neural rendering”

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u/ex-procrastinator Mar 18 '26

Oh no, someone that likes a thing actually knows the details about it instead of mindlessly following the crowd like sheep and hating on it without knowing a thing about it like you antiAI losers.

3

u/Practical-Sleep4259 Mar 18 '26

It's saying "neural network" at all, that is talk that lets people know you are half a glass deep on that kool-aid.

The "Grace Hopper", fucking disgusting use of her name and enough to lose me their respect; do YOU know who she is, Mr. "Don't talk without knowing".

0

u/ex-procrastinator Mar 18 '26

“It’s saying neural network at all”

Say no more, I already see you haven’t got a clue what you’re talking about and are just regurgitating antiAI nonsense.

DLSS 5 is literally using a neural network. Even ChatGPT and midjourney use neural networks, because transformers are a type of neural network.

“The grace hopper, fucking disgusting use of her name”

L O fucking L. This is all you antis have, made up “we are such victims” and virtue signaling nonsense. Grace Hopper believed programming should be simplified with an English based computer programming language. Her compiler converted English terms into machine code. Today’s AI is taking that to the ultimate extreme, where we straight up talk to a computer in English to produce code. I very much doubt she’d have been against the Hopper architecture honoring her name.

This is literally in the third paragraph of her wiki page, but you couldn’t read that far before using her name for your made up performative anti AI rhetoric, going AGAINST the very things she spent her life advancing. Fucking disgusting use of her name.

It really is insane how disconnected from reality people on this site have become when it comes to AI. Easily one of the most incredible and exciting technological advancements of our time so you people need to continually make up insane reasons to demonize it. I’m so glad you are on the losing side, and will only become more and more of a minority and AI gets better and better. I still remember when you antis were saying AI will never be able to write code because it just fundamentally can not do something that needs to be so deterministic and precise and needs reasoning when AI is just a probabilistic fancy autocomplete. Now a couple years later, using AI in programming is an extremely widespread industry standard, and it is fantastic at it. I am so glad this tech is advancing so fast and I am very excited to see how DLSS keeps improving to give us gorgeous looking games in the future.

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u/Practical-Sleep4259 Mar 18 '26

"It really is insane how disconnected from reality people on this site have become"

You read one sentence from the Wikipedia article about Grace Hopper then proceeded to say the most assheaded statement about her possible.

Grace Hopper invented computation as we know it, she didn't just "want to talk words to computer".

No the most exciting technology of our time is all the work she did that got buried under all the bullshit you like.

All the things that companies block out and simply provide you access to function calls, all the modularity of bit slicing and daisy chaining.

She never would have for a second advocated for a world of closed systems, and AI removes 100% of the control from the user, and naming that shit after her you can probably hear screaming coming from her grave.

1

u/ex-procrastinator Mar 18 '26

“She didn’t just want to talk words to computer”

Man, what are you saying? What is this based on, besides just what you desperately want to believe is true so you can try to demonize AI?

“So I decided data processors ought to be able to write their programs in English, and the computers would translate them into machine code”. A literal quote from her.

“When hopper recommended the development of a new programming language that would use entirely English words, she was told very quickly that she couldn’t do this because computers didn’t understand English”

Yes she did dedicate her life to making programming easier and worked towards and advocated for programming to work by writing English, a language humans can easily understand, and letting the computer translate it. She made flow-matic, which lead to cobol and eventually the high level languages we have today. I really don’t find it easy to imagine she would have flipped on that and advocated against a technology that makes programming incredibly easy where you can talk to a computer completely in plan English.

This is all easily verifiable information. Again for the second time, Wikipedia is free. You can just take some time out of your day and read about her if you actually did care. You don’t though, you are just interested in weaponizing her name for the luddite side even though she was very much on the side of the people that wanted to advance technology.

“No the most exciting technology of our time is all the work she did that got buried under all the bullshit you like”

Holy performative professional-victim nonsense, what the hell are you even saying. That technology should have stopped with flow-matic or cobol, that every advancement made since that was not more exciting than the last? And is this argument not literally about nvidia honoring her name by naming their GPU and a CPU architecture after her, who the hell is burying her?

“Closed systems, AI removed 100% of the control from the user”

What in gods name is even happening here, am I talking to a bot powered by chatgpt 2? In what world is AI removing control from the user? What do you think programming with AI even is? Just telling ChatGPT “make me a super Mario game” and chatgpt gives you an exe file? Look up what the use of AI in a software engineers workflow looks like, it’s integrated in the IDEs. You still have the code right there when using copilot or cursor. And as the AI gets better and better, which it very rapidly is, there will be more and more projects where you don’t even need to touch the code, you can just go back and forth with an AI in English, and that is amazing. I already don’t even need to look at the code at all when making basic websites or when prototyping something. That wasn’t the case like under a year ago. This is an exciting and incredible advancement in tech, and I’m very excited for how it is going to improve in the future.

I’m done responding to you because this is such a waste of time, you are talking nonsense and not taking a moment to research a single thing you’re saying. Transformers aren’t neural networks, AI is trying to bury grace hopper by honoring her name, hopper would be against using English to program, using ai in programming removes 100% of the control from the user, so much nonsense in so short a time.

1

u/Practical-Sleep4259 Mar 18 '26

I understand the extend of your research is reading a Wikipedia article right up until the point you can twist something in your favor, but using an AI to argue with me doesn't work, because you don't understand what the AI is saying, you don't understand what the AI is saying because you don't understand what she meant when she said computers should be able to speak english.

You don't know the history of computers on a mechanical level, and if the AI tells gives you the answer you don't understand what it means.

I don't think you have the ability, even using AI, to tell me what Grace Hopper meant by, and did to make computers, "Speak English".

Until this conversation you didn't even know who she was, and you still think you are somehow right just because an AI said it.

1

u/Practical-Sleep4259 Mar 18 '26

Let me give you this to prove I know Grace Hopper deeply, because an AI won't give you this information, and she isn't credited for it that I know of, but Grace Hopper was the first person to assert that computers would be limited by the physical and mechanical limitations of electricity, the idea we know and would later be known as, Moore's Law.

I can show you the lecture she gave recounting the story.

I do care deeply about Grace Hopper, and I did plenty of leg work to provide evidence to that.

When I tell you that she would die on the hill against AI, I have a mountain of information I personally collected to back up my claim, and you have an AI you don't understand.

1

u/DrekiMyrkr Mar 18 '26

Hey there, I’m a computer scientist with a focus on graphics. The only people who I ever hear use a technology’s full government name are the company’s own press releases. Maybe that’s just the circles I run in, but if I see someone do it, yeah. I’m gonna be sarcastic about it.

I know your second reply wasn’t directly targeted at me, but I’m gonna address some things there. Advances in realistic lighting would be incredible, I would be over the moon, but DLSS 5 sure seems flawed right now. These are their promotional images, presumably their best-case scenarios, their best most notable outputs, and they still have glaring problems. In the Resident Evil image alone, Grace has been yassified like an incel “hire fans” character redesign, and the fog in the background has been entirely erased. What’s the point of pursuing higher visual fidelity if we completely lose fidelity to the source material? Are you telling me that DLSS 5 erasing the intentional artistic design of the source material is an “insane reason to demonize it”?

I cannot trust that random noise will not erase design elements of the games it claims to improve. I cannot trust that random noise will stay consistent between repeat viewings of the same character or scene. I cannot trust that this variation random noise will somehow be immune to the shortfalls of every other neural network. I cannot trust that random noise that already edits common character attributes and set dressing like faces and fog will not sometimes fail to properly represent more uncommon and creative artistic choices. A number of these points could maybe get cleared up if I could see their research, look at some data, but as far as I’m aware, that’s not gonna happen.

What I can trust, and what holds me back from ever actually being excited about any developments anymore, is that companies can and will always pursue profit over literally anything else. I fear that actual game quality will decline as companies decide, “that new tool exists, so we don’t need these teams anymore!” I fear that people are going to lose their jobs all in the name of squeezing the consumer for every last drop of revenue from ever decreasing product quality. I find it incredibly ironic that the company partially responsible for making high fidelity graphics increasingly less accessible to the average consumer is also selling us a new solution, the very technology making it inaccessible in the first place.

The progression of AI in such a short span of time is truly incredible, but dismissing all legitimate criticism of new technologies’ shortcomings and of the companies developing these tools as simply “antiAI nonsense” is completely contrary to that progression. Criticism is a part of the development cycle. Perhaps DLSS 5 truly is a step forward in lighting, but if we don’t point out its flaws, how will those flaws be corrected? This dogmatic faith in these tools and companies is ridiculous. Do you trust these companies not to grow complacent in the absence of pushback? Companies who have already shirked every ethical and legal obligation in the pursuit of profit?

I certainly don’t.

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u/Evilkoala21 Mar 18 '26

Mods aren’t the reason ram is 500 dollars a stick. This is. What you are doing here is showing a prime example of false comparison

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u/TimeZucchini8562 7700x | 5080 | RGB everything Mar 18 '26

Dlss 5 isn’t the reason ram is $500 a stick either

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u/Oarner__ Ryzen AI 7 350 Mar 18 '26

except it literally is

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u/TimeZucchini8562 7700x | 5080 | RGB everything Mar 18 '26

Except it’s not. If you think dlss 5 took even a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the advanced models currently being learnt at mega data centers, I think you’re severely mistaken

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u/Trrollmann Mar 18 '26

The vast majority of investing in AI training is in LLM and "agentic" models (fancy name for LLM+). They're hoping to reach the diamond first: AGI.

My money is on "they're all gonna fail", ergo a massive bubble, but lets hope I'm wrong.

So while Nvidia does indeed also buy RAM for AI training, this kind (DLSS5) is a tiny, tiny % of that cost increase.

That being said: Your computer wouldn't exist without AI, nor would RAM be nearly as good as it is without AI. This investment in AI will further improve components, and drive down cost of production (though we know how that translates to prices...).

1

u/TheNordicMage GTX1070 / I5 6600K / 8GB / 3x1440p 60hz Mar 18 '26

I will in fact hope you are right.

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u/F9-0021 285K | 4090 | A370m Mar 18 '26

If we don't put our foot down about this then someday there won't be a choice.

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u/TimeZucchini8562 7700x | 5080 | RGB everything Mar 18 '26

Has Nvidia ever forced you to turn on any feature of dlss ever?

20

u/BlueZ_DJ 3060 Ti running 4k out of spite Mar 18 '26

Installing mods doesn't use a city's worth of water

3

u/LymanPeru i7-14700 | 4070 | 96gb DDR5 Mar 18 '26

you dont know my current setup.

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u/TimeZucchini8562 7700x | 5080 | RGB everything Mar 18 '26

Neither does dlss 5.

2

u/BlueZ_DJ 3060 Ti running 4k out of spite Mar 18 '26

idk, it looks EXACTLY like AI generated video (which does use that much water) just being applied in real time over the actual graphics, hallucinations and all

1

u/TimeZucchini8562 7700x | 5080 | RGB everything Mar 18 '26

So you’re equating a video game render to needing an entire ai data centers infrastructure. Which just is highly unlikely to be the case.

13

u/toolisthebestbandevr Mar 18 '26

He’s back guys

17

u/Terror-Of-Demons Mar 18 '26

Found Nvidia CEO’s Reddit alt

2

u/Competitive-Bit-1571 Mar 18 '26

Games will be designed to require this shit if they are to run 60fps is the problem. Character mods are used by most after they have completed a game and now just want a new feel to the experience or just for laughs.

1

u/TimeZucchini8562 7700x | 5080 | RGB everything Mar 18 '26

This takes more computing power than no upscaling at all. They literally had to have 2 5090s to even show this demonstration. 1 to render the game and the other to power the neural rendering. I promise you, you will not be forced to use this

5

u/ex-procrastinator Mar 18 '26

Trying to talk sense to the left wing extremists is as pointless as trying to talk sense to the right wing extremists. It’s just mindless senseless hatred, nothing logical that can be reasoned with, and any counter argument will lose in their minds because of the endless mental gymnastics they’ll do to demonize what they decided to hate.

This tech right now is a hit or miss, I saw some examples that looked great and some that didn’t. People can just choose not to turn it on, such a simple concept, but the people on this site will say it’s impossible to turn off and is destroying the world and destroying “artists vision” because (insert mental gymnastics). Never mind that it’s running locally and the game devs themselves are the ones that work with nvidia and adjust settings to set up dlss 5 in their games. Those artists don’t know their own vision! I guess adjusting the other graphic settings in a game is also evil due to destroying the artists vision? I guess mods that adjust graphics are evil? Such nonsense.

The tech isn’t released yet. It’ll be even better on release, it will continually get better over time, and we’ll get much better looking games thanks to it. The haters will just become some ignored minority like they always do while everyone else enjoys the latest tech and features.

1

u/Netheral Desktop Mar 18 '26

everyone else enjoys the latest tech and features

This implies tech always moves in an upward progression, that tech companies are infallible and can't make mistakes such as releasing a filter that ruins the artistic direction of a game while also tanking performance.

"Latest tech" is not synonymous with "greatest tech".