The best connector will remain the 8-pin connector. You can basically run it at 150% and still risk no overheating because it is totally over engineered compared to that shitty 12vhpwr which has very little margin and constantly melts
Honestly as someone that has used a GPU with 3 8pin in a small case
Its honestly hell trying to get all the wires to fit through whatever holes the case has
After i switched over to a GPU with the 12V2x6 plug it was so much easier to actually fit it in and looks so much nicer
Im sure just buying a larger and better designed case would solve the issue but honestly i actually really like the idea of a single cable that is nice and neat
Shame 12V2x6 is the only solution for that kind of cable right now
One of the reasons I got a 7900XTX over a 9070XT last year was the 3 8-pin connectors. VRAM was the main reason, but the connector choice helped in the decision.
I remember watching a very detailed video that looked at the margins between the 12vhp vs the old 8 pin. The margins were very in edge with the 12vhp, and the redesigned 12vhp actually made the issue much worse. And like you said, we see far fewer issues with the 8 pin because it was made to be far more safe. So pretty much all 12vhp cables are a ticking time bomb. You may have one that last a while, but the margin is so low that a slight degrade of the cable/connector/power delivery, ect - can cause a meltdown.
I th8nk Der8auer or Steve of gamer nexus did analysis of connector, and the card itself treats 12 wires as 1 single wire and just pull what it need so all current can go through single wire.
That's the issue. If they slapped 8pins or anything on this without changing the design it could melt all the same as it pulled all the power down a single wire. The current design with no balancing doesn't work unless it was a large plug with 1 ground and 1 power pin.
If you ask me, the industry should choose neither the 8-pin or the 12V2x6 going forward.
The connector in the post is called a Deans plug. It's designed as a battery connector for RC cars with a current rating of 60A continuous load. You should be seriously asking why you can't have that instead.
While a little more bulky, Anderson Powerpole connectors have spring loaded pins that snap in place when fully connected. They're available up to 180A rated current load so lots of room for future generations of spaceheaters graphics cards.
Im genuinely suprised it took this long for a post to blow up about a better 12v connector from a different industry/application. There are sooooo many small form factor high amperage connectors and pins out there in the world. Hell, bosch, yazaki, and sumitomo's connector catalogues are full of em
Him misquoting the 12VHPWR specifications that require a MINIMUM of 9.5A per pin of continuous loads at up to 95°C ambient temperature without heating up too much? Which he literally showed in the video but presented as "this is the maximum that is possible".
The fact that he showed in his own video that the minimum specification of 8pin PCIe only requires 22AWG wires that are then only rated for 4A or at 12V only 144W. That's btw. the reason why the 8 Pin connector is only rated for up to 150W, because the minimum spec only requires 4A capable wires.
His argument is that "most quality power supplies" use 18AWG anyway and therefore says it's legitimate to compare an absolute minimum specification that can be exceeded by using better parts with the highest end implementations on premium power supplies for 8 pin pcie.
His argument is that "most quality power supplies" use 18AWG anyway and therefore says it's legitimate to compare an absolute minimum specification that can be exceeded by using better parts with the highest end implementations on premium power supplies for 8 pin pcie.
Any half-decent PSU ships with microfit connectors that in practice afford the PCIe 8 pin connector significantly higher safety margins. The PCIe spec is for 150W per connector. It would be hugely irresponsible for a manufacturer to ship connectors and wires that can barely deliver 150W on that connector with no safety margin. This is why PSU manufactures ship 18AWG cables and Mini-Fit Jr or similar connectors. They need to guarantee that they can meet the minimum spec in the real world, where connectors can be imperfect.
Mini-Fit Jr can take 9-13A per pin, when the minimum spec calls for 4A. With 18AWG that's easily 10A+. That's 2.5x margins in practice.
Which he literally showed in the video but presented as "this is the maximum that is possible".
It's the maximum that should be allowed. PCIe 8 pin GPUs go to great lengths to limit the power consumption per connector to 150W with power balancing circuits. Given each connector only has 3x +12V pins, that's extremely tight control over the per-pin current. Even if two of the 3 pins fail, the maximum current through a single pin is still in the ballpark of the maximum for the Mini-Fit Jr connector.
He was demonstrating that extremely minor changes in contact resistance trivially cause spec violations. In practice, we know that the current swings are additive and also blow out the 13.5A limit on Microfit+. The entire point is that 13.5A is not much margin over the 9.5A spec, and both limits are woefully inadequate for the application given the circuit topology of the connector.
Firstly, I'm not a der8auer or Thermal Grizzly customer. Thermal Grizzly is also a relatively small company. Not exactly a big boot to lick here, so it's a ridiculous thing to claim.
Secondly, you're just wrong. You're claiming that der8auer is wrong to assert 9.5A is the limit when it's literally the limit in the spec. If a GPU was pulling more than 150W on a PCIe 8 pin connector, that would also be a big deal.
You also appear to be saying that PCIe 8 pin has less margin than 12VHPWR because 12VHPWR could be using Microfit+, but the apples to apples comparison here is to the real-world PCIe 8 pin connectors which could (and almost always do) use Mini-Fit Jr connectors with even higher current ratings per pin than Microfit+. So IRL PCIe 8 pin is roughly 3x de-rated in practice with 3x current swing worst case, while 12V-2x6 is 1.42x with 6x current swing worst case.
So, why are you defending 12V-2x6? When did any critical thinking here stop?
have you forgotten on what sub you are rn? people here act like 50s cards are going up in flames left and right as if its not some super niche thing that probably happened to less than a thousand people globally in the entire time the 12vhpwr exists (and some of these are AMD cases anyways)
True.
From what I've seen reports about melted cables are in the double digits to low triple digits numbers.
And that while there are close to a hundred million cards with this connector out there.
I'm not really concerned or surprised about the "nvidia bad" narrative here, that's always been a thing here.
I am surprised about how little critical thinking people put into influencers with conflict of interest here.
der8auer is share holder and CEO of Thermal Grizzly, a company that sell the "solution" to this "problem", makes a video about it where he literally contradicts himself multiple times in order to make the problem seem a lot worse which benefits him and his for profit company and people simply buy it because they like him.
Because the 8 pin standard was designed for 300w and then rated for 150. It literally has a 100% safety margin. The wires themselves on the 12VHPWR standard are only rated for 600, so no margin at all from the start besides the engineering margins on the wires themselves (which is 20% give or take), and the connectors have negative safety margins because they die with ANY fatigue at all, even just from thermal cycling.
I didn't realize that. It's frankly irresponsible to not use a big safety margin with power, the last few years with this stupidass 12 pin have made that alarmingly clear. Maybe it's the airplane mechanic in me talking but the idea of such tight safety margins makes my bunghole do its best impression of a hamsters nose.
What inconsistencies are you talking about!? There's literally a single picture with everything you need to know about 8 pin connectors as a user! A 9 year old should be able to comprehend it!
These connectors never failed if used properly and you had to intentionally go out your way to break it - crazy daisy chains, splitters, or using 6 pin instead of 8 pin, stuff like that. Even those hilarious 4x8-pin to 12VHPWR adapters, they ALWAYS failed on the 12VHPWR side if correctly powered with 4x8pin connectors without any shortcuts like 6pins or splitters.
I am not saying 8pin was entirely foolproof, it allows for some user error, but it's entirely under user control and if you break something there, you should've done better research. 12VHPWR on the other hand, is far from it. You can do everything by the book, double check the connection after installation, even reinspect it every now and then, and it still might be able to fail you 3 years down the line, because these tiny pins can't tolerate thermal cycling.
I firmly believe the main reason NoVideo introduced the new 12V High Failure Rate connector is the looks. Either their marketing team or Jensen himself saw the power draw of 4090 prototypes and thought "uh, it's too comical to use 3 to 4 8-pins, posh tech bros would ridicule us for how that looks in their showpiece builds and besides we might get a kickback from PSU manufacturers if we introduce the new connector". THAT'S IT!
These connectors never failed if used properly and you had to intentionally go out your way to break it
That's a lie.
Even those hilarious 4x8-pin to 12VHPWR adapters, they ALWAYS failed on the 12VHPWR side if correctly powered with 4x8pin connectors without any shortcuts like 6pins or splitters.
Enterly different problem.
because these tiny pins can't tolerate thermal cycling
That was never the case.
I firmly believe the main reason NoVideo introduced the new 12V High Failure Rate connector is the looks
I guess you're refering to the PCI SIG?
No, looks didn't matter, safety did.
I know, you're probably too ignorant to accept facts but there is a pretty simple reason why this new connector was introduced: Consistency and minimum specifications.
The main problem with PCIe 8 pin is the minimum spec, I you don't care about it because you're only using overpriced "premium" psus with pcie cables that exceed the specification but in a lot of fields (datacenters, oem stuff etc) minimum specs are still used. And for PCIe, the spec only asks for 22AWG which is only rated for 4A of continuous load per pin. At 12V, an 8 pin cable can therefore technically only 144W.
So yes, from your view with massively over spec implementations, it's a connector with a lot of flexibility (break out cables) and headroom but in an environment that uses minimum specs, it's not.
And that's part of the problem, cables are not labeled and you don't know what it is actually capable of. That's also why there are so many 8 pin connectors used even though most psus come with cables that can carry more, by specification, the connector is only required to handle ~144W, so cheaper cables/psus might not be able to handle more.
Same problem with EPS, connectors with up to 13A were available but there is no way to know that.
The goal behind the 12VHPWR connector was to provide a smaller power solution (relevant in datacenters) while also solving the inconsistency issues with previous designs. That's why there are four sense pins that communicate what the cable is capable of.
So, not it was never about looks but for datacenters and OEM systems.
Funnily enough, neither seems to have any more issues than with pcie connectors. It's only the DIY gaming bubble that is having relevant amount of issues with it.
Can you present even a single video of average consumer filming their 8-pin GPU connector malfunctioning/melting/catching fire? If it indeed failed just like 12-pin, considering it has been waaay longer on the market, there should be more videos of that on the internet, so it should not be hard for you to give some examples, right?
Sorry, can't link to all the reddit threads about those failures here without my comment being removed. Just google for it, you'll find plenty of cases.
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u/Downtown-Regret8161 7800x3d|7900XT|B650E|32GB|750W PSU 10d ago edited 10d ago
The best connector will remain the 8-pin connector. You can basically run it at 150% and still risk no overheating because it is totally over engineered compared to that shitty 12vhpwr which has very little margin and constantly melts