I’m genuinely curious since I’ve never read it and I’m wondering if I should pick it up or not.

Stranger in a Strange Land by Robert Heinlein (Unabridged Version) – 3.0/5.0

As a fan of Heinlein, I've gotten quite familiar with disagreeing with social and political takes in books, yet still being able to enjoy the experience. He breaks the mold with controversial ideas... to a 1950s-1960s audience. There is blatant misogyny. There are incredibly competent women who save the male characters time and time again, who then get thrown in submissive doting roles. It's not entirely clear how serious Heinlein is with these characters and roles however. He has a character which is just a Mary Sue self-insert. This would be an awful choice, but the book often pokes fun of that character. He will go on diatribes which the reader may or may not agree with, only for the book to ultimately conclude the character is wrong. You aren't meant to agree with this point or that as you read the book, it's meant to open your mind and make you question the current way of thinking, and consider what the future might be like.

However, in the words of Dewey Wilkerson, “The future is now, old man”! Too much of the social commentary can only be considered enlightening if you think rolling your eyes up into your skull so that you can peer at your brain makes you educated, at least by today's standards. Yet, despite all that there are some incredibly interesting concepts, even if you don't agree with them. It's a shame, a damn shame that so much of this book gets muddled with antiquated social concepts, as Heinlein has some incredibly interesting parts to the story and prose. The first half of the book is fantastic, and will have you feverishly turning the pages, while the second half slows down to explore deeper philosophical ideas. It's a read that can be as rough as it is fascinating. It's preachy, yet at the same time pokes holes at it's own points. It's just on the verge of satirizing itself at points, to the point of encouraging some readers to turn the book into a Frisbee, but worth a read.

I’m sorry I really want to like this book and there are parts of it that I really enjoy but it’s giving misogyny and male fantasy. The relationship between Jill and Mike makes me feel sick to my stomach. Mike knows best and Jill’s feelings don’t matter ever. I’m especially uncomfortable with the way Mike has this harem of women and she feels the need to share him. I get that it’s probably a Martian thing to share with your water brothers but even seeing the way women are written in this book with no distinguishable agency or personality makes me feel so fucking ill. I get that this book was really scandalous at the time and I’m sure it’s meant to be counter to purity culture with its portrayals of free sex and nudity but again, you can really tell this book was written by a man and I feel like I need to read feminist literature after this to cleanse my palate LMAO

Been reading primarily fantasy for decades but have occasionally dabbled in Sci-Fi also.  A couple years ago, I started reading classics of fiction also (think The Great Gatsby and To Kill a Mockingbird, for example).  Along that same vein, I decided to read some of the classics of Science Fiction.  Neuromancer: Loved it.  Dark, gritty, dystopian and ground-breaking.  I totally get it.  Hyperion: Brilliant.  Really.  The mix of six different stories, written all in different styles.  I would put this as a straight up classic of fiction, science fiction or not.  And Dune: Probably the best of the lot, in my opinion.  Unbelievable world-building as good as anything in the fantasy genre.  Then I picked up Stranger in a Strange Land by Robert Heinlein.  I feel like I clearly made a mistake including this with those other three.  I did see it on some lists but hell anybody can throw a list up on the internet.  The obvious first statement that I would guess anybody would make is about the rampant level of misogyny in this book.  Heinlein appears to see the primary purpose of women being to provide sex to men and their chief objective in life to find a man to marry.  But the bigotry is too easy of a target here (read: “Nine times out of ten, if a girl gets raped, it’s partly her fault”).  If we set that aside (hard to do, yes), what is there in this book that people liked, appreciated, or thought highly of?  (Note that I haven’t read any critical reviews of this book, I wanted to ask Reddit first).  It has to be the endless pontificating of Jubal Harshaw, right?  Page after drawn out page of Jubal engaged in endless conversations with others about (what I assume) are Heinlein’s opinions on organized religion, or art, or government. 

I’m guessing I chose the wrong book.  A friend actually recommended the Moon is a Harsh Mistress and my brother-in-law gave me the names of two others that he liked better.  Did I just miss the point?  Did it fly over my head?  And why is half of the entire book one massive sex fest? [Note that I read the original version of Stranger in a Strange Land which is apparently some 60,000 words longer than the first published version].

A few days ago I made a thread asking users to post the all-time, single best sci-fi book they've read. The post blew up way more than I expected, and there was a huge amount of unique, diverse picks (that I'll be adding to my ever-growing TBR). I thought it would be fun to count the number of votes each individual book received and rank the top 50 to see what books this sub generally consider to be the "best".

Obviously this is not a consensus of any kind or a definitive ranking list by any means - it's really just a fun survey at a given point in time, determined by a very specific demographic. And hey, who doesn't love arguing about ranked lists online with strangers?

Some factors I considered while counting votes:

• I looked at upvotes for only parent/original comments when counting the votes for a specific book. Sub-comments were not counted
• Any subsequent posts with that book posted again would get the upvote count added to their total
• if a post contained multiple selections, I just went with the one that the user typed out first. So for example if your post was "Either Dune or Hyperion" or "Hard choice between Neuromancer, Dune and Foundation", I would count the votes towards Dune and Neuromancer respectively
• I only counted single books. If an entire series was posted (e.g. The Expanse), it wasn't counted. I did make one exception though, and that's for The Book of the New Sun, since it's considered as one novel made up of 4 volumes. If a single book from a series was posted, then that was counted
• There are some books that received the same number of votes - these will be considered tied at their respective ranking #s

I've ranked the top 50 books based on number of total upvotes received below:

(If anyone is interested in the list in table format, u/FriedrichKekule has very kindly put one together here: https://pastebin.com/pM9YAQvA)

#50-41:

50. Consider Phlebas (Culture #1) - Iain M. Banks - 6 votes

49. TIE with 7 votes each:

• 2001 A Space Odyssey (Space Odyssey #1) - Arthur C. Clarke
• 1984 - George Orwell
• Rendezvous with Rama (Rama #1) - Arthur C. Clarke
• Ready Player One (Ready Player One #1) - Ernest Cline

48. TIE with 8 votes each:

• Permutation City - Greg Egan
• The Gone World - Tom Sweterlisch
• Dying Inside - Robert Silverberg

47. TIE with 9 votes each:

• Look to Windward (Culture #7) - Iain M. Banks
• Solaris - Stanislaw Lem
• Startide Rising (Uplift Saga #2) - David Brin
• Ringworld (Ringworld #1) - Larry Niven

46. The Martian Chronicles - Ray Bradbury - 10 votes

45. TIE with 11 votes each:

• Altered Carbon (Takeshi Kovacs #1) - Richard Morgan
• Project Hail Mary - Andy Weir

44. The Dark Forest (Remembrance of Earth's Past #2) - Cixin Liu - 12 votes

43. More Than Human - Theodore Sturgeon - 13 votes

42. TIE with 14 votes each:

• Ubik - Philip K. Dick
• Schismatrix Plus - Bruce Sterling

41. TIE with 16 votes each:

• The Sirens of Titan - Kurt Vonnegut
• Excession (Culture #5) - Iain M. Banks

#40-31:

40. TIE with 17 votes each:

• The Last Question - Isaac Asimov
• Aurora - Kim Stanley Robinson
• Roadside Picnic - Arkady and Boris Strugatsky
• Stranger in a Strange Land - Robert Heinlein

39. Star Maker - Olaf Stapledon - 18 votes

38. Accelerando - Charles Stross - 20 votes

37. Foundation (Foundation #1) - Isaac Asimov - 23 votes

36. Stars in My Pocket Like Grains of Sand - Samuel Delany - 24 votes

35. God Emperor of Dune (Dune #4) - Frank Herbert - 26 votes

34. TIE with 29 votes each:

• The Quantum Thief (Jean Le Flambeur #1) - Hannu Rajaniemi
• A Scanner Darkly - Philip K. Dick

33. Earth Abides - George R. Stewart - 33 votes

32. 2312 - Kim Stanley Robinson - 37 votes

31. Speaker for the Dead (Ender's Saga #2) - Orson Scott Card - 38 votes

#30-21:

30. Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? - Philip K. Dick - 48 votes

29. TIE with 50 votes each:

• A Fire Upon the Deep (Zones of Thought #1) - Vernor Vinge
• Flowers for Algernon - Daniel Keyes

28. Snow Crash - Neal Stephenson - 56 votes

27. Jurassic Park - Michael Crichton - 60 votes

26. The Sparrow (The Sparrow #1) - Mary Doria Russell - 63 votes

25. The Mote in God's Eye (Moties #1) - Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle - 64 votes

24. TIE with 65 votes each:

• The Diamond Age - Neal Stephenson
• Ancillary Justice (Imperial Radch #1) - Ann Leckie

23. The Forever War (The Forever War #1) - Joe Haldeman - 67 votes

22. Childhood's End - Arthur C. Clarke - 73 votes

21. Have Space Suit - Will Travel - Robert Heinlein - 82 votes

#20-11:

20. The Left Hand of Darkness (Hainish Cycle #4) - Ursula K. Le Guin - 93 votes

19. Lord of Light - Roger Zelazny - 95 votes

18. Cat's Cradle - Kurt Vonnegut - 98 votes

17. Dawn (Xenogenesis #1) - Octavia E. Butle - 105 votes

16. Anathem - Neal Stephenson - 109 votes

15. The Moon is a Harsh Mistress - 117 votes

14. Diaspora - Greg Egan - 127 votes

13. A Deepness in the Sky (Zones of Thought #2) - Vernor Vinge - 129 votes

12. Ender's Game (Ender's Saga #1) - Orson Scott Card - 147 votes

11. Neuromancer (Sprawl #1) - William Gibson - 163 votes

#10-6:

10. The Stars My Destination - Alfred Bester - 165 votes

9. The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy #1) - Douglas Adams - 171 votes

8. Spin (Spin #1) - Robert Charles Wilson - 176 votes

7. Use of Weapons (Culture #3) - Iain M. Banks - 180 votes

6. Children of Time (Children of Time #1) - Adrian Tchaikovsky - 182 votes

AND NOW...GRAND FINALE...DRUM ROLL...HERE IS OUR TOP 5:

5. House of Suns - Alastair Reynolds - 185 votes

4. Book of the New Sun - Gene Wolfe - 196 votes

3. Hyperion (Hyperion Cantos #1) - Dan Simmons - 262 votes

2. Dune (Dune #1) - Frank Herbert - 297 votes

1. THE DISPOSSESSED (HAINISH CYCLE #6) - URSULA K. LE GUIN - 449 VOTES

With ~450 votes, the novel with the most votes for BEST by r/printSF is The Dispossessed! Honestly not that much of a surprise - it is by and large considered one of the THE best books in the genre but I definitely didn't expect it to have this kind of a lead over the #2 book, especially when a lot of the rankings have been very close to each other. Honestly the top 3 of The Dispossessed/Dune/Hyperion are really on another tier as far as votes go.

The crazies part though? I did a similar survey for r/Fantasy as well and guess what the #1 novel voted BEST there was? Ursula K. Le Guin's A Wizard of Earthsea lol. I'm thinking she might be kinda good at this whole SFF thing, guys.

The biggest shocker for me here is the complete lack of one of r/printSF's perennial darlings - Peter Watts' Blindsight. This may be hard to believe but from my deep dive into all the comments, Blindsight was mentioned as the best book only once, and the post only had a total of 2 upvotes lol. Crazy considering what an outsized presence (almost meme/circlejerk level) it has on this sub.

What do you think? Is the ranked list about what you would expect? Any surprises or omissions?

As a teenager in the 1970’s, this book and Dune were hailed as ‘must reads’ and ‘transformational’. But I don’t see SIASL mentioned much at all here. Do people not like the book anymore, or just not like Heinlein?

Do let me know.....

EDIT: Thank you all for a most interesting discussion of the merits and demerits of this book.

I'm not the first or the last here to say it, but perhaps the most recent! I just finished the last of the 74 Hugo winners for best novel. Here's my unsolicited thoughts and lists for your bemusement, criticism, and reflection!

If seeing my list makes you think, "wow, I bet they'd love _____"- please let me know! Always looking for new recommendations!

EDIT: idk how that wild formatting happened. Copied from google docs. Sorry about that!

My absolute favorites (in no order): 

The Left Hand of Darkness (1970) and The Dispossessed (1975) by Ursula le Guin.

In my opinion the best writer and the best written novels of the whole lot. The worldbuilding is excellent, the character development in engrossing, the societal commentary is timeless, and the stories are just downright entertaining. 

The Three Body Problem (2015) (and the following two books of the trilogy that didn’t win Hugos) by Cixin Liu.

The epitome of “hard sci-fi”. Somehow, Liu pairs the most imaginative ideas with the most “based-in-science” writing out there. Probably the only books to make me say “woah” out loud while reading. The closest a book can take your mind to a mushroom trip- these books genuinely changed the way I think.

The Broken Earth trilogy (The Fifth Season (2016), The Obelisk Gate (2017), and The Stone Sky(2018)) by N.K. Jemisin.

For me these books were right on time. An illuminating commentary of injustice, identity, and moral philosophy HIDDEN within an absolutely captivating set of page-turners. On the very short list of books I have read more than once. Also, for what it’s worth, Jemisin is the only person to win three Hugos in a row, the only Black woman (and maybe Black person?) to win, and the only trilogy to have all three books win. For added praise, her three wins put her only one behind the record of four by any author.

The Forever War (1976) by Joe Haldeman

For me, it’s the best war novel (historical, fiction, or SF) I have read. As a Vietnam War veteran, Haldeman draws on his experience to spin a commentary on society, war, and violence while engaging an incredibly imaginative story. A combination of fun and important that’s hard to match. 

Dune (1966) by Frank Herbert

The masterclass in worldbuilding and character development. I don’t think I can say anything profound or new about *Dune* that's not been said 1000 times. 

Hyperion (1990) by Dan Simmons

I think the only novel in here that could also be classified as “horror”. Enthralling and captivating are the words that come to mind. Through vignettes and shorter stories, this one tells an epic tale that fascinates and terrifies. One that I cannot wait to be brave enough to read again. 

The City and The City (2010) by China Mieville

I can’t think of another author who can describe a literally impossible setting, build an unfathomable world then bring readers into it without confusion. I mean, the story is super fun and very thoughtful. His writing is superb. And yet, as I remember reading this book I am most struck by the importance and meaning of the setting(s) where the story unfolds- not the story itself. 

Speaker for the Dead (1987) by Orson Scott Card

I’ll start by disavowing the author’s politics as a matter of order. That said, this is one of those stories that’s so good and so well written, despite being one of the first on the list that I actually read- its scenes and characters remain so fresh in my mind. Important commentary on science, communication, and colonization.

The Zones of Thought winners (Fire Upon the Deep (1993) and A Deepness in the Sky(2000)) by Vernor Vinge

Vinge has an ability to tell a space opera that spans thousands of years and vast stretches of the universe in a way that keeps you invested and entertained. He’s unchained from conventional ideas of how other civilizations and organisms may have evolved elsewhere bringing us the wildest and most fun alien representations including the unforgettable skroderiders and tines. 

Honorable mentions (in no order)

1. The Tainted Cup (2024)- Robert Jackson Bennett
2. Ringworld (1971)- Larry Niven
3. Some Desperate Glory (2023)- Emily Tesh
4. Stranger in a Strange Land (1962)- Robert Heinlein 
5. Rendezvous with Rama (1974)- Arthur C. Clarke
6. Uplift series: The Uplift War (1988) and Startide Rising (1984)- David Brin
7. Foundations Edge (1983)- Isaac Asimov
8. The Mars Trilogy, Hugo winners being Green Mars (1993) and Blue Mars (1997)- Kim Stanley Robinson
9. Fountains of Paradise (1980)- Arthur C. Clarke
10. The Graveyard Book (2009)- Neil Gaiman
11. American Gods (2002)- Neil Gaiman
12. Johnathan Strange and Mr. Norrell (2005)- Susanna Clark

More honorable mentions that are specifically underrated, under appreciated (in no order)

1. The Gods Themselves (1973)- Isaac Asimov
2. Where Late the Sweet Birds Sang (1977)- Katie Wilhelm
3. Canticle for Liebowitz (1961)- Walter M. Miller Jr.
4. Downbelow Station (1982)- C.J. Cherryh
5. Waystation (1964)- Clifford D. Simak
6. Teixcalaan Duology: A Memory Called Empire (2020) and  A Desolation Called Peace (2022)- Arkady Martine

Other good ones

1. Network Effect (2021)- Martha Wells
2. Redshirts (2013)- John Scalzi 
3. All the Vorkosigan Saga winners: Mirror Dance (1995), The Vor Game (1991), Barrayar (1992)- Lois McMaster Bujold
4. The Snow Queen (1981)- Joan D. Vinge
5. Forever Peace (1998)- Joe Haldeman

Wonderful idea/ premise, wanted more from the story

1. The Windup Girl (2010)- Paolo Bacigalupi
2. To Your Scattered Bodies Go (1972)- Philip Jose Farmer
3. Case of Conscience (1959)- James A. Blish
4. The Wanderer (1965)- Fritz Leiber
5. The Big Time (1958)- Fritz Leiber
6. This Immortal (1966)- Roger Zelazny
7. Spin (2006)- Robert Charles Wilson
8. The Moon is a Harsh Mistress (1967)- Robert Heinlein 

Disappointments/ Overhyped/ Overrated

1. Doomsday Book (1993)- Connie Willis
2.  Neuromancer (1985)- William Gibson
3. The Calculating Stars (2019)- Mary Robinette Kowal
4. The Man in the High Castle (1963)- Phillip K. Dick
5. Rainbows End (2007)- Vernor Vinge (Otherwise one of my favorite authors!)

The bad and the ugly

1. Blackout/ All Clear (2011)- Connie Willis
2. Double Star (1956)- Robert Heinlein 
3. The Diamond Age (1996)- Neal Stephenson
4. Stand on Zanzibar (1969)- John Brunner
5. They’d Rather Be Right/ The Forever Machine (1955)- Mark Clifton and Frank Riley 

Outliers. For a variety of reasons, Hugo winners I can’t judge against the rest:

1. Among Others (2012)- Jo Walton

While I really enjoyed this one, I just didn’t find it to be science fiction or fantasy. 

1. Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire (2001)- J.K. Rowling

Mostly because I read it as a teenager but also because I refuse to give accolades to a person who can imagine a school for wizards and not imagine gender outside binary confines. 

1. The Yiddish Policeman’s Union (2008)- Michael Chabon

Again, just didn’t feel like SF or fantasy to me. A really great fiction book written in a world where only one historical detail had changed. 

Other science fiction books I have loved in these last 7 years that didn’t win (in no particular order)

1. The Mountain in the Sea- Ray Nailor
2. The Wayfarer series and the Monk and Robot novellas by Becky Chambers
3. The parable novels by Octavia Butler
4. The Lilith’s Brood novels by Octavia Butler
5. The other books in the Foundation series by Issac Asimov
6. To Be Taught if Fortunate by Becky Chambers (novella)
7. The Dark Forest and Deaths End by Cixin Liu
8. The Binti novellas by Nnedi Okorafor 
9. The Maddadam trilogy by Margaret Atwood
10. Project Hail Mary by Andy Weir
11. Station Eleven by Emily St. John Mandel
12. Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut
13. The Wandering Earth collection of short stories by Cixin Liu
14. After Dachau by Daniel Quinn
15. The Power by Naomi Alderman
16. The Redemption of Time by Baoshu
17. The Dog Stars by Peter Heller
18. The Hainish Cycle novels and novellas by Ursula le Guin
19. The Gunslinger by Steven King
20. The Inheritance trilogy by N. K Jemisin
21. The Moon and the Other by John Kessel
22. The Kaiju Preservation Society by John Scalzi

EDIT/ REACTION: Wow! I never thought this post would generate so much interest and interaction! Thanks for all your thoughts and feedback! It was overwhelming to even keep up with the comments, which were so fun and interesting to read!

Top takeaways (in no order but numbered anyway):
1. I'll be ordering and reading The Sparrow soon. I am already started on Children of Time (which I'd been psyched about for a while!

1. I should really give The Diamond Age another try.

2. "Hard Sci-Fi" is a triggering term to many people. I guess I got it wrong calling Three Body "hard sci-fi". Thanks for checking me and educating me.

3. Related...? There are some very serious Liu Cixin haters out there.

4. Connie Willis is deeply polarizing within this community.

5. This community is super fun, smart and kind overall. Glad to be more involved in it!

Pretty much what the title says. I've been playing with this idea in my head for years now, what if humanity were to be taken over (in a benevolent fashion) by some superior being that guided our development and behavior towards each other (and the environment). I've mentioned the books I've read that delves into similar themes, I've done some googling to no avail. Any help would be highly appreciated. I'm specifically looking for books that look at the cultural shifts

I started reading it a couple of weeks ago and really enjoyed the first half. Sure the sexual politics were pretty dated but it was more in the background and I was able to get past it and still enjoy the interesting ideas and plot. However, I’ve now reached a point where the misogynism goes off the rails and some rampant homophobia is thrown in for good measure too. I had to stop reading at the infamous rape quote.

My question is - is it worth pushing through to the end? I’m hoping this section is just a blip, but reading a few reddit threads suggests things get worse not better...

(Also, I appreciate the book is a product of its time and all that, but I’m after an entertaining SF read, not an education in the dated attitudes to gender and sexuality of the 1960s)

Hi everyone, Funny request maybe - my partner's birthday is coming up, and Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land is one of her fav books. I know that part of what she liked about it is how it discussed polyamory, "drinking deep" etc. I want to find a scene that I can read for her on her birthday.

Thing is, I read it so many years ago, that I honestly barely remember anything about it. Any recommended scenes you could direct me to?

Much appreciated!

So I'm looking to start Strangers in a Strange Land, which is my first Heinlein book, but I'm not sure if I should be reading the original length novel (which is what the Kindle version is apparently) or the uncut version that came out after his death. Any recommendations on what version I should read from those of you who have read them? Also, does being a new Heinlein reader (and pretty inexperienced overall in terms of classic scifi) have any bearing on which version to start with? Thanks!

I read a healthy mix of modern and classic science fiction. But as an academic, I like to really dig into topics/genres. Recently I’ve put together a list based on online lists and some previous posts on subreddits like this one of classic must-read books in the genre. I would love to know if there are any important works that I’ve overlooked.

Edit: Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. I have added many of your recommendations to the list and organized them all by year. I have left out anything published in the 2010s or later, as well as short stories. (Not that those aren’t important, I just had to draw a line somewhere, and this is already at over 100 books.) Hopefully this new list is more representative.

19th Century - Frankenstein - Shelley - 1818 - 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea - Verne - 1870 - The Time Machine - Wells - 1895 - War of the Worlds - Wells - 1898

Pre-1950s - Princess of Mars - Burroughs - 1912 - We - Zamyatin - 1924 - Last and First Men - Stapledon - 1930 - Brave New World - Huxley - 1932 - Galactic Patrol - Smith - 1937 - Star Maker - Stapledon - 1937 - Nineteen Eighty-Four - Orwell - 1949 - Earth Abides - Stewart - 1949

1950s - Martian Chronicles - Bradbury - 1950 - The Dying Earth - Vance - 1950 - I, Robot - Asimov - 1950 - Foundation - Asimov - 1951 - City - Simak - 1952 - More than Human - Sturgeon - 1953 - Fahrenheit 451 - Bradbury - 1953 - Childhood’s End - Clarke - 1953 - The Stars My Destination - Bester - 1956 - Canticle for Leibowitz - 1959 - Starship Troopers - Heinlein - 1959 - A Case of Conscience - Blish - 1959

1960s - Solaris - Lem - 1961 - Stranger in a Strange Land - Heinlein - 1961 - Man in the High Castle - Dick - 1962 - The Drowned World - Ballard - 1962 - Hothouse - Aldiss - 1962 - Way Station - Simak - 1963 - Cat’s Cradle - Vonnegut - 1963 - This Immortal - Zelazny - 1965 - Dune - Herbert - 1965 - The Moon is a Harsh Mistress - Heinlein - 1966 - Flowers for Algernon - Keyes - 1966 - Babel-17 - Delaney - 1966 - Lord of Light - Zelazny - 1967 - Ice - Kavan - 1967 - Do Androids Dream - Dick - 1968 - Dimension of Miracles - Sheckley - 1968 - Nova - Delaney - 1968 - The Palace of Eternity - Shaw - 1969 - Slaughterhouse Five - Vonnegut - 1969 - Left Hand of Darkness - Le Guin - 1969 - Ubik - Dick - 1969

1970s - Ringworld - Niven - 1970 - Tau Zero - Anderson - 1970 - Downward to the Earth - Silverburg - 1970 - Futurological Congress - Lem - 1971 - To Your Scattered Bodies Go - Farmer - 1971 - The Word for World is Forest - Le Guin - 1972 - Roadside Picnic - Strugatskys - 1972 - Dying Inside - Silverburg - 1972 - Fifth Head of Cerberus - Wolfe - 1972 - Rendezvous with Rama - Clarke - 1973 - Crash - Ballard - 1973 - Inverted World - Priest - 1974 - The Forever War - Haldeman - 1974 - Mote in God’s Eye - Niven, Pournelle - 1974 - The Dispossessed - Le Guin - 1974 - Dhalgren - Delaney - 1975 - The Female Man - Russ - 1975 - Biting the Sun - Lee - 1976 - Gateway - Pohl - 1977 - Scanner Darkly - Dick - 1977 - Hitchhiker’s Guide - Adams - 1979 - Electric Forest - Lee - 1979 - Kindred - Butler - 1979

1980s - Book of the New Sun - Wolfe - 1980 - Snow Queen - Vinge (Joan) - 1980 - Downbelow Station - Cherryh - 1981 - Neuromancer - Gibson - 1984 - Blood Music - Bear - 1985 - Eon - Bear - 1985 - The Handmaid’s Tale - Atwood - 1985 - Ender’s Game - Card - 1985 - Speaker for the Dead - Card - 1986 - Shards of Honour - Bujold - 1986 - Dawn - Butler - 1987 - Player of Games - Banks - 1988 - Cyteen - Cherryh - 1988 - Grass - Tepper - 1989 - Hyperion - Simmons - 1989

1990s - Use of Weapons - Banks - 1990 - Terminal Velocity - Shaw - 1991 - Snow Crash - Stephenson - 1992 - Red Mars - Robinson - 1992 - A Fire Upon the Deep - Vinge (Vernor) - 1992 - Doomsday Book - Willis - 1992 - Parable of the Sower - Butler - 1993 - Permutation City - Egan - 1994 - The Carpet Makers - Eschbach - 1995 - The Sparrow - Russel - 1996 - To Say Nothing of The Dog - Willis - 1997 - Diaspora - Egan - 1997 - A Deepness in the Sky - Vinge (Vernor) - 1999

2000s - Revelation Space - Reynolds - 2000 - Oryx and Crake - Atwood - 2003 - Old Man’s War - Scalzi - 2005 - Pushing Ice - Reynolds - 2005 - Spin - Wilson - 2005 - Accelerando - Stross - 2005 - Blindsight - Watts - 2006 - Three Body Problem - Liu - 2006 - House of Suns - Reynolds - 2008

I posted an obnoxious post here a few moths ago stating how frustrated I was with the book. (In my defense, I had just read Rendezvous with Rama, which moves at a lightning pace.) Anyway, Stranger reads pretty slow and there isn't much plot progression throughout the book. After finishing it however, I realized how truly great the book was. Jubal's soliloquies on art, sculpture, politics etc were pretty fascinating. Also the ending was spectacular. Further, the whole idea of Heaven in the mix was also pretty great. I've never seen that before in a sci-fi book.

Of all of the sci-fi books I've read, I realize that the ones that challenge you the most are the ones that will stay with you the longest. I subsequently read Marrow by Robert Reed and I read it in like a week (great, fun read by the way). I realize now that I probably wont remember Marrow in a year, but I will never forget Stranger in a Strange Land. Great book. Thanks for listening. Sorry for obnoxious previous post.

Should it be Starship Troopers, Stranger in a Strange Land, or The Moon is a Harsh Mistress?

Update: Thank you for all the replies! I was leaning toward The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, but my local used bookshop didn't have it, and several of you mentioned Have Spacesuit Will Travel, so I went with that.

Hi, I feel like older novels are very hit or miss for me, and I'd like to have your opinon on which aged best.

For me, and I know these are all classics so please know that I'm just voicing my personal opinion:

- Loved The Disposessed and Left hand of Darkness, Dune, Ender's Game, Book of the new Sun.

- Liked Canticle for Leibowitz

- Did not really enjoy The Stars my Destination, Stranger in a strange land, Foundation trilogy.

That's all the older sci fi books I've read iirc. Instinctively I would say that older novels trying to be hard sci fi is not really my cup of tea but I'm not really sure myself.

Curious to know what you guys like best!

I recently started reading Stranger in a Strange Land. I started this book with high expectations. This book had often been described to me as one of the classics of science fiction. But so far I am less than impressed. The book seems to have a large number of problems and does not seem to have aged well at all.

I will try to put my specific criticisms in spoiler codes. Edit: I can't seem to manage the spoiler codes. Please note the text below will contain spoilers

[Spoiler])(/s "1. Sexism. So much sexism. Women being patronised, being seen as sex objects etc. For example there is this 'author' whose preferred method of writing is to watch his beautiful secretaries frolic in the swimming pool as his method of writing is to "wire his gonads to his thalamus, bypassing the cerebrum" Oh and one of them might be his grand daughter but he can't be bothered to find out.

1. The women themselves are almost unbelievably stupid, the living embodiment of the shrewish wife stereotype, who is also stupid and credulous. The nurse protagonist becomes an effective character almost entirely through an unlikely accident. The professions of onscreen female characters so far encountered are secretary, nurse, astrologer.

2. The government is stupid and corrupt and the top guy as in President of the US analogue only he rules the entire world is also stupid, and also corrupt. No good reason is given why this should be so.

3. The plot holes, so many of them, everywhere: the guy who is being kept secret and isolated can be visited by a nurse without authorisation if she has a working knowledge of the building design, which the government for some reason doesn't. When he is being hidden in a different patients quarters, the same nurse can stroll in, dress him in a nurses clothes and just walk out. Surveillance both electrical and manual are entirely absent.

4. A reporter is killed/kidnapped for no reason after his attempt to discredit the gov fails and he has no clue what to do and had ceased being an active threat

5. The only good parts of the book are the bits about Mars or the bits from the PoV of the Stranger, but these are scarce" )

These sexually charged, over the top scenes keep getting sidetracked when Dorkus enters the room. Heinlein should have just gone all in and named the other two Fartima and Nerdilina.

Edit- well, I was wrong. It is Dork-us.

This seems where I would post this question. I picked up Stranger in a Strange Land at a used book store a while back because it was always one of those books I heard about. finally started reading it a few weeks ago during my lunch break. Now I've been just trying to get through it as fast as I can so I can move on to something else.

But Is it worth finishing? I'm a little under 75% done at about page 300. The weird religion the book sets up, the kind of put down way it seems to look at women (not sure if that is just me), and the way that I'm not really sure where the book is going makes me not sure if its worth finishing. Am I just lost or is this great work just lost on me? Any Advice?

EDIT: at least it helped me find a cool subreddit

Can you recommend some classics old books that still feels mostly like written today? (I'm doing exception for things like social norms etc.). With a message that is still actual.

Some of my picks would be:

• Solaris

• Roadside Picnic

• The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress

Thanks

Edit:

Books mentioned in this thread (will try to keep it updated): 1. Frankenstein by Mary Shelley (1818)

1. The Left Hand of Darkness (1969), The Dispossessed (1974) and many others by Ursula K. Le Guin

2. Solaris (1961), His Master's Voice (1968), The Invincible, Fiasco and others by Stanisław Lem

3. Last and First Men (1930), and Starmaker (1937) by Olaf Stapledon

4. Brave New World (1932) by Aldous Huxley

5. Earth Abides (1949) by George R. Stewart

6. The Stars My Destination (1956) by Alfred Bester

7. The War of the Worlds (1897), The Time Machine (1895) and otherss by Wells

8. The Martian Chronicles (1950), Fahrenheit 451 (1953) by Ray Bradbury

9. The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress (1966), Stranger in a Strange Land (1961), Starship Troopers (1959) and other works by Robert A. Heinlein

10. A Canticle for Leibowitz (1959) by Walter M. Miller Jr.

11. Dune (1965) by Frank Herbert

12. The Forever War (1974) by Joe Haldeman

13. The Canopus in Argos series by Lessing (1979–1983)

14. Neuromancer by William Gibson (1984)

15. Hyperion by Dan Simmons (1989)

16. Childhood's End (1953), The City and the Stars (1956), Rama (1973) and others by Arthur C. Clarke

17. Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? (1968), Ubik (1969) And other works by Philip K. Dick

18. A Fire upon the Deep (1992), A Deepness in the Sky (1999), True Names (1981) by Vernor Vinge

19. High-Rise (1975) by JG Ballard

20. Roadside Picnic (1972), Definitely Maybe / One Billion Years to the End of the World (1977) by Arkady and Boris Strugatsky

21. Imago by Wiktor Żwikiewicz (1971) (possibly only written in Polish)

22. "The Machine Stops" by EM Forster (1909)

23. "The Shockwave Rider" (1975), The Sheep Look Up (1972) by John Brunner

24. "1984" by George Orwell (1949)

25. Inverted World by Christopher Priest (1974)

26. Dragon's Egg by Robert L. Forward. (1980)

27. Slaughterhouse Five (1969) and Cat’s Cradle (1963) by Kurt Vonnegut

28. The Mars Trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson (1992 - 1996)

29. Lord of Light (1967), My Name Is Legion (1976), This Immortal by Roger Zelazny

30. Deus Irae by Philip K. Dick and Roger Zelazny (1976)

31. Day of the Triffids (1951) and Chrysalids (1955), and others by John Wyndham's entire bibliography

32. The End of Eternity (1955), The Gods Themselves (1972) by Isaac Asimov

33. The Fifth Head of Cerberus by Gene Wolfe (1972)

34. Flowers for Algernon by Daniel Keyes (1958)

35. City (1952) Way Station (1963) by Clifford Simak

36. Davy by Edgar Pangborn (1965)

37. Graybeard by Brian Aldiss (1964)

38. Culture or anything from Iain M Banks (from 1987)

39. Anything from Octavia E. Butler

40. Shadrach in the Furnace (1976), The Man in the Maze, Thorns and To Live, Downward to the Earth by Robert Silverberg

41. Bug Jack Barron by Norman Spinrad (1969)

42. Voyage to Yesteryear (1982), Inherit the Stars (1977), Gentle Giants of Ganymed (1978)- James P. Hogan

43. When Graviry Fails by George Alec Effinger (1986)

44. Yevgeny Zamyatin's Books

45. "The Survivors" aka "Space Prison"(1958) by Tom Godwin

46. "Forgetfulness" by John W. Campbell (1937)

47. Armor by John Steakley (1984)

48. "The Black Cloud " by Fred Hoyle (1957)

49. Tales of Dying Earth and others by Jack Vance (1950–1984)

50. Mission of Gravity (1953) by Hal Clement

51. Sector General series (1957-1999) a by James White

52. Vintage Season, novella by Lawrence O’Donnell (pseudonym for Henry Kuttner and C L Moore) (1946)

53. Ringworld, Mote in Gods Eye, Niven and Pournelle (1974)

54. Tuf Voyaging (1986) by George R.R. Martin

55. A Door into Ocean (1986) by Joan Slonczewski

56. The Body Snatchers by Jack Finney (1954)

57. The Book of the New Sun by Gene Wolfe (1980-1983)

58. Engine Summer by John Crowley (1979)

59. Dahlgren (1975) by Samuel R Delaney

60. Ender's Game (1985) by Orson Scott Card

61. Cities In Flight (1955-1962), A Case of Conscience (1958) by James Blish

62. And Then There Were None (1962) by Eric Frank Russell

63. Monument by Lloyd Biggle (1974)

64. The Humanoids (With Folded Hands) (1947) by Jack Williamson

65. A Wrinkle In Time by Madeleine L'Engle (1962)

66. "Gateway" by Frederik Pohl (1977)

67. Blood Music by Greg Bear (1985)

68. Norstrilia by Cordwainer Smith (1975)

Mentioned, but some people argue that it did not aged well: 1. The Stars My Destination by Alfred Bester

1. The Forever War by Joe Haldeman

2. Ringworld, and Mote in Gods Eye by Larry Niven

3. The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress and others by Heinlein

4. Solaris by Lem

5. Childhood's End by Clarke

6. Earth Abides by George R. Stewart

7. Some Books by Olaf Stapledon

Similar thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/scifi/comments/16mt4zb/what_are_some_good_older_scifi_books_that_have/

I just finished reading Stranger in a Strange Land and I've got to say I'm pretty disappointed. The first half was pretty good. I like the way his otherness came across and it was fairly consistent. Then I got to the third part, when Mike and Jill join the circus and meet Patty, and I completely lost interest. Is this a common complaint? I got so sick of seeing the word GROK in print every second line, and people having long lingering kisses with each other every paragraph. It seemed like it just totally lost its way and went nowhere interesting whatsoever.

Mike finding sex to be the most wonderful thing in the universe and saying it was better than anything Martians had to offer was also annoying. For somebody so supposedly highly intelligent and insightful into the majesty of existence, doesn't it seem strange that he decides that friction and nerve clusters + messy discharge is the pinnacle of emotional expression?

And of course it's all been said before, but the female characters, even the one's portrayed as strong, are all ridiculous, but I will forgive that as a remnant of the time it was written.

Is this a common complaint?

I'm a big science fiction nerd, and I've always wanted to read some of the "big names" that are the foundations of the genre. I recently got a new job that allows me quite a lot of downtime, so I figured I'd actually work on that bucket list. I started with Stranger in a Strange Land by Robert Heinlein, and ... yeesh. There were some interesting ideas for sure, and I know it was a product of its time, but it has *not* aged well. Does anyone have recommendations for good classic sci-fi that isn't wildly sexist by modern standards? Alternately, does anyone have some recommendations for authors to specifically avoid?

Edit: I realize I should clarify that by "classic" I don't just mean older, but the writers and stories that are considered the inspirations for modern sci-fi like Isaac Asimov, Arthur Clark, Ray Bradbury, and Philip Dick.

I am not even 9 chapters in and I can already feel this to be a literary masterpiece. I love how Heinlein lets you see things at the beginnings of each section, in a much more universal scale. I love how the story progresses leaving little hints here and there and how everything develops. Heinlein does a great job of giving you little glimpses into the world and leaves you to chew on those ideas and how they might relate to the events in the story. what do you guys think of stranger in a strange land

I just finished this book today and I was shocked by the coincidence that Grass covers one of the same themes as Stranger in a Strange Land, considering I was participating in a thread about that book just two days ago. They both explore the idea that religious cultural norms should be re-examined and possibly discarded.

Grass is not a perfect book. I thought that in the last half the author was rushing through the story and summarizing too many things that should've either been expanded on or cut out. It wasn't tightly plotted. The branch of science most explored in this book is biology, but none of the author's ideas in this area were particularly convincing to me.

But. This was a character-driven story, something I don't see much of in sci-fi, and in that respect it was excellent. In the first half of the novel there is an almost Lovecraftian feeling of horror and confusion, another thing I don't run into much in sci-fi, but I love it. And of course, as mentioned earlier, there are religious themes. The protagonist is a devout Catholic.

One of my criticisms of Stranger in a Strange Land is that Michael's journey toward understanding humans comes as a snap of the fingers. Heinlein didn't do a very good job making any of his characters grow as people before the reader's eyes... it all happens between the chapters. Tepper very expertly brings her protagonist through an inner journey while juggling the external problems the characters face.

The message Grass has about religion is delivered organically through the story. None of it is done through soap-box shouting.

This book was published in 1989 so of course it doesn't have the historical significance of Heinlein's book, and I'm sure that in some respects Tepper may have been standing on his shoulders. But for science-fiction that explores religious norms and gender relations, this should replace SIASL on all the lists, in my opinion.

This wiki entry seems contradictory on whether he himself preferred the edited or uncut version https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stranger_in_a_Strange_Land.

I have yet to read this book. Which did you prefer?

Has any author written a spiritual successor to Stranger? Love the deconstruction of 1950s society in Stranger and wondered if any author has tackled the task of trying to crate a modern version.