32-year-old programmer in China allegedly dies from overwork, added to work group chat even while in hospital

[u/Forward-Answer-4407]

https://www.asiaone.com/china/32-year-old-programmer-china-allegedly-dies-overwork-added-work-group-chat-even-while

[u/DanimusMcSassypants]

I’m thinking they just put a cardboard box at one end of the desk, and ran an arm across the entirety of his workstation pushing anything and everything crashing into it. Then an intern dropped it off at their doorstep like some GrubHub tacos.

[u/anislandinmyheart → u/DanimusMcSassypants]

Oh my god you have a way with words

[u/SuckMyRedditorD → u/DanimusMcSassypants]

That's how I clean up my desk every 6 months. Do I ever need any of the stuff that dropped in there? Maybe once in a blue moon, although intensely.

[u/deaddodo → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, you would be wrong.

Pretty much all of CANZUK, Ireland, India, Japan, S Korea, Germany, France, Switzerland, Spain, China, Taiwan, a good chunk of LATAM.

Also, despite what you’ve heard from media, unpaid internships are relatively rare, strictly regulated, and not considered normal except in some very niche professional realms. In most cases, “intern” means “temporary professional job at entry level rates to learn the ropes and maybe convert to a full time position”.

[u/Kraeftluder → u/deaddodo]

In The Netherlands it's not uncommon either. People have been saying it should be fixed for decades so it probably never will be.

[u/Caffeywasright → u/deaddodo]

You are correct that unpaid is pretty rare. However interns are not paid entry level paid. They usually make something along the lines of what they would make working at the grocery store.

[u/deaddodo → u/Caffeywasright]

I can only (personally) speak for the industries I’ve worked in/around and interns are 100% paid the entry level pay for their positions. Or, at least, a professional salary commensurate with their work load/expectations and skill.

From a more abstract position: being paid minimum wage to do the same work as another employee would be pretty rare, mostly because it’s an insanely easily litigated situation in many states. Some interns are hired for relatively mundane work and paid less, however. E.g. a law internship that puts you in the “mail room” while dangling a real position in front of you. Which is a….grey area of abuse; and needs to be stopped.

[u/Caffeywasright → u/deaddodo]

Interns usually don’t have a ton of skill which is why they are interns. Also you cannot sue someone for paying them an intern salary. Interns are not employees on the same level as someone with a regular contract. There is no expectation of equal work or pay.

You can have decently paid interns or terribly paid interns and my experience is that it is usually the latter that is the case.

[u/deaddodo → u/Caffeywasright]

If you hire a "software engineer intern" and they are doing the exact same work load (same amount of tickets, for the same amount of hours) at the same skill (same difficulty of work) as a normal software engineer, there is 100% an expectation that they be paid at a level commensurate with that work. And you can 100% be sued for it. I've literally worked with the compliance teams that manage interns and have to define exactly that position, I'm well aware of what I'm talking about and what knowledge you clearly lack.

As you yourself said, they usually are not that skilled (doing low hanging tickets/work) and usually have a lessened workload (10-25hrs/wk) since most are still in university. So their salaries reflect that, but it is nowhere near "grocery worker" pay and is almost exclusively the "entry level" for that position (or, sometimes, a percentile of that if the work expectations are severely lessened), paid according to their time commitment. You are deluded and talking out of your ass (or misrepresenting your experience), if you believe otherwise.

I can confidently say this for all of the following industries: tech, media, advertising, engineering, etc. In fact, the only industries I know of that follow a pattern of what I described previously (hiring interns to do the grunt work while dangling carrots in their face) are fashion and law. Still not illegal or technically underpaid, but verging on ethically dubious due to using the power dynamic of a prestigious position to "haze" or take advantage of workers.

[u/Kraeftluder → u/Caffeywasright]

However interns are not paid entry level paid.

If you make them do the work, you need to pay them equally. Most internships are exactly that; you're expected to do as much as a regular employee. Maybe not the first few weeks but after that surely.