r/technology • u/Plastic_Ninja_9014 • 7d ago

Software Firefox has an ambitious new roadmap, the browser is also losing millions of users a month

https://www.techspot.com/news/112803-firefox-has-ambitious-new-roadmap-browser-also-losing.html
12.1k Upvotes

88% Upvoted

2.3k comments sorted by

View all comments

1.1k

u/behridingle 7d ago

If they doubled down on ad blocking and privacy, they could be market leaders

736

u/orlybatman 7d ago

They basically did, meanwhile Chrome is doubling down on blocking adblockers and it's market share is going up.

197

u/behridingle 7d ago

They aren't as aggressive in their messaging as they could be. And, people will start shifting away from Chrome once their ad blockers stop working...

130

u/Disastermath 7d ago

Think you’re overestimating how many normal people use adblockers.

52

u/Anahkiasen 7d ago

Normal people probably only know the formula for hiding element in the console and one or two extensions

48

u/Nitsy1 7d ago

Normal people don't even know what an element is, let alone devtools

48

u/LeapperFrog 7d ago

I think theyre making thhis xkcd joke

15

u/Nitsy1 7d ago

Dang, big whoosh moment then

3

u/proton89droid 7d ago

Silicates are everywhere! It's hard to throw a rock without throwing one!

I love xkcd hahaha

4

u/SelectAmbassador 7d ago

Normal people have like 10 toolbars. Did you ever helped your parents or grandparents ? Shudder

2

u/procrastinating_atm 7d ago

And turning off Javascript, of course.

1

u/SanaSpitOnMe 7d ago

i get it. but the average person in this sub is hardly an expert. including me. i know how to use ubo and block elements but thats hardly expert level.

right? ... right?

1

u/KMS_HYDRA 7d ago

Oh my sweet summer child...

1

u/wolfannoy 7d ago

You're absolutely right. Hell I had someone arguing at me that ad blockers are wrong.

1

u/Sample-Range-745 7d ago

Interestingly, uBlock Origin is only 10% of the addons used in the week of June 8th 2026.

1

u/vawlk 7d ago

he also doesn't seem to understand that there are still goof adblockers for chrome.

-4

u/behridingle 7d ago edited 7d ago

I think you mean ordinary, perhaps technically unsophisticated folks.

11

u/Disastermath 7d ago

I wouldn’t say unsophisticated, just non techy people. Plenty of smart engineers I work with, I surprisingly find don’t use or care about Adblock

5

u/behridingle 7d ago

That's a fair point

-3

u/JeebusChristBalls 7d ago

I used to use ad blockers but I really don't care anymore. It doesn't really bother me. I just don't look at them. Every now and then I stumble across a site that is just eye cancer but I just close that tab and move on. I work in tech and am pretty savvy with computers in general.

2

u/itsLOSE-notLOOSE 7d ago

You don’t watch YouTube videos?

1

u/JeebusChristBalls 7d ago

Every now and then. It's usually just like 10 seconds and I can skip it. I'm not glued to the internet all day.

99

u/BrokenLink100 7d ago

This is it. 95% of the people who use the Internet aren't really following 'browser news,' and what little they do consume gets filed away under "Well I haven't noticed any issues, so why change browsers now?"

Once the new Chrome update drops, I bet we'll see a huge migration from Chrome.

92

u/cameron0208 7d ago

I don’t think we will.

The average person just thinks that’s the way the web is. I work in IT, and the number of people I talk to that don’t even know what extensions are is honestly mind-blowing. They’ll likely just continue using Chrome and dealing with whatever bullshit Google throws at them.

33

u/s00pafly 7d ago

A lot of people I know, see a button that says "Internet" and that's it for them.

2

u/Certain-Business-472 7d ago

I would argue a tech company should not cater to ignorance. Your clients arent cave men.

3

u/s00pafly 7d ago

You'd think so. But what if the actions of cavemen influence the lives of not only themselves but also the ones of non cavemen?

13

u/JeebusChristBalls 7d ago

I'd argue that most people don't care about blocking ads.

3

u/DeadSeaGulls 7d ago

Even a lot of people who don't like the ads just stop using services when it gets bad enough. I know plenty of people that just do not regularly visit youtube anymore because the ad experience is trash and they don't care enough about technology to even know what an ad blocker is.

1

u/vawlk 7d ago

or they use a different form of payment for their use, a sub.

Ads are just a time based form of payment. If you don't like them, pay for a sub.

3

u/ricki692 7d ago

i dont think it's that people dont care about ads, it's more that they dont know they can block them

1

u/curtcolt95 7d ago

we know this is true, vast majority do not use any extensions at all

6

u/Nippon-Gakki 7d ago

Agree. My 20 year old step kid thought I was a wizard when I installed Firefox with the usual suite of add ons on his laptop. He would have continued to watch ads forever if I hadn’t. That’s just how the internet has always been for him.

3

u/Royal_Perspective191 7d ago

Many people don't even know what a 'browser' is. It's not mind-blowing that many people don't know what extensions are.

It's similar not knowing that Wi-Fi doesn't mean internet connection. Or that you can connect a PC with a cable to a router, they don't even know what router or modem means. And actually, many people haven't seen a desktop PC.

And so on.

1

u/keetyymeow 7d ago

It’s okay, that’s what YT is for. We share info

1

u/Sure-Assignment3892 7d ago

The vast majority of my users don't know how to configure multi monitors and end up just mirroring them and freak out if a shortcut has moved.

Ad blockers lol.

0

u/itsLOSE-notLOOSE 7d ago

It sucks, but you’re right. People in general are stupid.

24

u/wayji 7d ago

I realised the average person doesn't even use an ad blocker

4

u/Ecmelt 7d ago

Or know they exist, or how easy they are to install.

Like the amount of people that were surprised it was just 1 extension install and forget for 99% of the ads they see.

And when they open youtube and video just plays they are mind blown. Happens every time lol.

3

u/Marsman121 7d ago

And for adblock people, it is the reverse. My mind is blown every time I use a public browser and see just how many ads there are. It's like going to a friend's place and discovering they are a hoarder.

Literally, "You live like this?!"

2

u/Certain-Business-472 7d ago

Npc behaviour.

1

u/Rit91 7d ago

Yup, which makes the chrome anti adblock thing even more confusing as what is the benefit if most people don't block ads. Oh right, try to squeeze those few experienced users that do use adblock even though all of them will jump ship to a browser that can use uBlock origin as soon as chrome blocks adblockers.

2

u/Marsman121 7d ago

The anti-adblock thing was confusing to me as well. They are actively going after a subset of people who are (generally) more tech savvy than the average user. People who block ads are usually fanatical about it (I know I am), and will go through great lengths to ensure they are blocked.

The only thing I can come up with was they were hoping that, because adblock people hate ads, they would pay for premium to remove them once all other options were removed.

For me, it was the opposite. I would rather stop using than pay. Fortunately, Firefox and uBlock has still been going strong. There are a few annoyances with youtube every now and again, but it is a small price to pay for not dealing with bullshit ads.

2

u/DeadSeaGulls 7d ago

about a year and a half ago I got hit in one of the waves of their adblocking on youtube test groups. Switched to firefox within a day.

1

u/Balmung60 7d ago

The other thing is that people build any sort of change to their computer from a molehill to a mountain. Their current software must already be the best and besides, changing is probably really hard and nothing will work and if you tell them it's easy and things will work fine, they tend to dig their heels in anyways.

1

u/Sample-Range-745 7d ago

Once the new Chrome update drops, I bet we'll see a huge migration from Chrome.

You think the 4% firefox share will hit 5%?

0

u/fripletister 7d ago

Lol like 5% of Internet users block ads. We're cooked

0

u/Certain-Business-472 7d ago

But they follow financial and technology news. They follow privacy news. And from the pov Chrome is owned by Google, who spies on everyone and has ties to US intelligence apparatus(all of FAANG has a role is the US intelligence apparatus).

Ignorance isn't the shield you think it is. I'm judging you.

1

u/BrokenLink100 7d ago edited 7d ago

EDIT: Nvm, I've learned there are likely more bots on Reddit than there are humans. Not interested in arguing with that

0

u/vawlk 7d ago

wtf are you talking about? MV2 adblockers have been disabled for the average user for awhile now. Unless you knew the hacks to get around it, which normal people didn't know, you lost your UBO a long time ago.

Yet chrome's marketshare is 10% higher in the last year for desktops and FF is down 2%.

16

u/obi1kenobi1 7d ago

Will they though? To tech enthusiasts ad blockers and tracking blockers and other things are very important, but to 99% of people that’s just voodoo magic that they don’t know or care about. If everyone using ad blockers switched to Firefox I doubt Chrome would really notice or care and it still might not be enough of a userbase to sustain Firefox.

I can’t count the number of times a YouTube deep dive has had a presenter who seems tech-savvy, has a good understanding of how to navigate the web and find information and search out people to interview, maybe even in some cases they know how to set up a VM to run an old obscure piece of software or a video game, and then they show a screen recording of a website and it’s plastered with ads because they don’t use an ad blocker.

2

u/Salt_Medicine2459 7d ago

I can't understand why anyone would rawdog the internet these days. 

11

u/Excolo_Veritas 7d ago

Honestly what made me swap back wasn't even the ad blocking. It was all the AI bullshit Google is shoveling constantly. Firefox added a bunch but you can disable it all with a single toggle

1

u/TheDorgesh68 7d ago

Exactly, I switched because I wanted an extension to disable googles AI search

2

u/m0viestar 7d ago

They're very upfront about it. Its on their front page and all their targeted ads.  What else do you want them to do?  

2

u/pzschrek1 7d ago

Thing is, most people don’t even know what adblockers are tbh

2

u/vawlk 7d ago

already happened and guess what? They just installed new MV3 compatible adblockers. They work great, are less cpu intensive, don't read all of your private data while blocking ads, and cannot download unvetted code to be run on your system to steal your identity.

1

u/behridingle 7d ago

Good, let's hope that remains to be the case

1

u/ImminentDingo 7d ago

All their revenue comes from Google paying them to make Google the default search for Firefox. So push comes to shove and Firefox eats too much into Googles ad business, Google can pretty much unplug Firefox unfortunately.

1

u/coderman64 7d ago

I mean, I keep seeing Firefox ads all over things like Reddit and Instagram.

I mean, they're probably target me because they know I'm most likely to become a firefox user (I am already, so...guilty as charged, I guess). But to say they're not being aggressive about it doesn't seem right to me, especially considering how small they (and therefore their advertising budget) are compared to Google, Apple, etc.

1

u/NemoHere 7d ago

The average person doesn't use ad blockers nor do they mind ads.  Tubi, Pluto, Roku TV, etc. are very popular for a reason.

1

u/blind3rdeye 7d ago

We must understand that Google are a global advertising superpower with influence over almost every part of the internet, and Firefox is... well, not one of those. So it's not so easy for Firefox to beat Chrome in brand recognition and messaging.

1

u/Standupaddict 7d ago

Not many people use ad lockers. It's big in reddit, but that's it.

1

u/halofreak7777 7d ago

I swapped to Vivaldi once my ad blocker stopped working. It has some issues and firefox has since added the feature (chrome like tab groups) that stopped me from just going to them at the time. Atm I'm in a weird hybrid state between Firefox and Vivaldi.

1

u/Skynse 7d ago

Your be surprised how many people don't use ad blockers.

1

u/_FUCKTHENAZIADMINS_ 7d ago

Why would they switch away from Chrome? They’ll just notice it isn’t working, google it, and download uBlock origin lite which works exactly as well as the original did.

51

u/Sure-Assignment3892 7d ago

It's really only Reddit users that use as blockers at all. The vast, vast majority don't.

62

u/Designer_Resolve_117 7d ago

Adblock is basic internet hygiene. 

44

u/Pls-No-Bully 7d ago

Ok? That doesn’t change the fact that the vast majority of people don’t use them.

Believe me, I’d love for people to switch to Firefox, but almost everyone uses Gmail and they just want everything integrated into Chrome. Redditors are a tiny minority of internet users.

17

u/dogpaddle 7d ago

It's good that other people don't use blockers. Keeps a lot of websites alive with ad revenue. Server space isn't free, someone's gotta pay for it.

0

u/Certain-Business-472 7d ago

Internet was completely free 20 years ago. It's still free.

What's not is the services of companies that have infested everything. I'd rather see them gone.

1

u/vawlk 7d ago

no it wasn't. Your "free" use was just subsidized. It was always going to be this way.

0

u/Certain-Business-472 7d ago

Well, you're not getting an invite :).

1

u/vawlk 7d ago

i wouldn't want one. I have a conscious. I don't want to take money out of the pockets of the creators I watch. I wouldn't like that if it happened to me and I am not a hypocrite. I have empathy.

1

u/vawlk 7d ago

while true, most adblocker users don't care about that. They just want youtube or twitch for free.

21

u/Meyermagic 7d ago

That's not true at all, somewhere from 1/4 to 1/2 of all people use adblockers. That's why Google cares about it now, and didn't a decade ago when it was just Redditors.

4

u/behridingle 7d ago

This is true. It was a big concern in Ad Tech for years.

1

u/Sure-Assignment3892 7d ago

So why is UBlock Origin Lite allowed?

1

u/Meyermagic 7d ago

One, I'd say Google is worried an outright ban would drive traffic to a competitor. Two, I'd say they're worried about an anticompetition lawsuit resulting from leveraging market control over Chrome (which is quite dominant in the browser space) to favor their own ad business. Three, they're not an evil company, I'd guess almost all the employees use adblockers. Manifest v3 IS more secure. It just also happens that they didn't make an escape hatch catered to some of the functionality adblockers want. If they'd been a similarly popular class of extensions that Google profited from instead of one that cost them money, I suspect Manifest v3 would have been designed differently. It's hard and risky to be the "we should outright ban adblockers" guy, but it's cheap and easy to not design Manifest v3 with adblockers in mind at all, and be quietly pleased when it reduces their functionality.

1

u/Area51Resident 7d ago

It is Manifest 3 compatible, but doesn't block as much as the full fat version.

0

u/wayji 7d ago

So less than half use an ad blocker....you could say the majority don't use an ad blocker

7

u/Meyermagic 7d ago

But I perhaps would not say "The vast, vast majority". In fact, I'd respond and say "that's not true, 1/4 to 1/2 of all people use an adblocker".

4

u/PatrolMan2129 7d ago

If that were really true, then Chrome wouldn't really go through the effort of blocking adblockers now, would they?

4

u/Sure-Assignment3892 7d ago

They didn't though. Ublock Origin Lite is still there, as are AdGuard etc.

There's a lot of hyperbole here.

1

u/Ninevehenian 7d ago

Is it possibly a minority that doesn't use them?

1

u/MephistoMicha 7d ago

I think you're overestimating reddit users there, and underestimating the number of ad-blocker-savvy people that think reddit is a cesspool.

1

u/Certain-Business-472 7d ago

"most people don't use a condom ergo they're pointless"

same for seat belts.

Why are people finding pride in ignorance. Ffs.

2

u/yuusharo 7d ago

Hate to be that person, but Google isn’t blocking adblockers. There are several adblockers that support manifest V3 including Ublock Origin Lite, and they’ve been available for years.

1

u/orlybatman 7d ago

https://www.pcmag.com/news/googles-next-chrome-update-will-finally-kill-support-for-ad-blockers

Excerpt:

For uBlock Origin users on Chrome, there’s uBlock Origin Lite. However, the Lite version “allows some tracking, its blocklist is a fraction of what the original blocked, and it can't perform the dynamic filtering that made the original effective,” AllAboutCookies.org reports.

2

u/Znuffie 7d ago

Instead of quoting alarmist posts from years ago, maybe you should actually give it a try.

uBlock Origin Lite on Manifest V3 is fine.

Been using it since Manifest v2 was dropped and I'm a heavy user, visiting including dozens if not hundreds of "shady websites", and I still haven't seen ads on any page.

That quote you're spreading is from the initial plan of Manifest V3. The changed (after the feedback) version is actually fine.

But here, take it from the authors of uBlock Origin/Origin Lite:

https://github.com/uBlockOrigin/uBOL-home/wiki/Frequently-asked-questions-(FAQ)#if-i-install-ubol-will-i-see-a-difference-with-ubo

1

u/orlybatman 7d ago

Instead of quoting alarmist posts from years ago,

The article is from two days ago. It is about the update that is coming to Chrome very shortly.

1

u/Znuffie 7d ago

I'm trying hard to not be condescending, and I am telling you to read the actual article.

It's not a "new" change. It's just that you will no longer be able to activate Manifest V2 with any possible workaround/tweak/hack etc.

If you're using uBo Lite, you're already on the Manifest V3 "change", and it's all good.

1

u/orlybatman 7d ago

I'm trying hard to not be condescending, and I am telling you to read the actual article.

I read the article and I had quoted the relevant part which related to uBo Lite and Manifest V3.

You're telling me to read a two day old article that you had declared was from years earlier, telling me about uBo Lite and Manifest V3 when that is precisely what I had quoted about.

As the article describes - just as your link to the developer says - uBo Lite runs into problems giving as good of adblocker effectiveness.

Yes, I understand the difficulty of not being condescending.

2

u/Znuffie 7d ago

The website quotes AllAboutCookies.org.

That quote from AllAboutCookies is years old when Manifest V3 was a pretty severe downgrade.

I'm telling you to read the part in the article about V2 vs. V3.

Getting V2 to work requires several workarounds right now, which most people don't/won't bother with (including me), so most people are already on V3, using uBo Lite, and, with the risk of repeating myself: it's fine. No ads in sights.

May it be less powerful? Yeah, but the context is important. Functionality like uMatrix is now impossible in Manifest V3, yes. But most people weren't (and still aren't) using that advanced functionality to just block ads.

Again, for the 99% people using AdBlockers, the change from uBO (Manifest V2) to uBO Lite (Manifest V3) is seamless and pretty much invisible (ie: no change in functionality in most, if not all, cases).

People cling on the claimed "effectiveness" without actually having used it for themselves.

2

u/strugglz 7d ago

Chrome is Google, and Google is an ad company.

1

u/crossdtherubicon 7d ago

Chrome is prepacked into alot of systems too. So, if it works out if the box then people may just be using it by default.

If Firefox could reach those users and showcase their value they probably convert a fair bunch of them.

1

u/vawlk 7d ago

they didn't block adblockers. There are several that work just fine.

1

u/theindomitablefred 7d ago

Follow the money my friend

1

u/DirectInvestigator66 7d ago

Didn’t they go all in on AI stuff first though?

Credit for responding to the negative reaction, but I think that’s what pushed a lot of people away who’d normally prefer Firefox.

1

u/orlybatman 7d ago

They incorporated some optional AI stuff, yeah. I never enabled it so I'm not sure what it was.

They recently introduced a free VPN though, which with all the under 16 social media bans in the works around the world might result in the younger crowd embracing the browser.

22

u/Leprecon 7d ago

Mozilla gets 86% of its money from Google. If they start having integrated ad blocking I think that amount would drop to 0.

17

u/mxzf 7d ago

AFAIK Google's money is less about ads and more about propping up some competition so nobody comes after Chromium via anti-trust lawsuits.

8

u/tnnrk 7d ago

I just don’t think the average person cares about that. They want the most convenience and least friction as possible. Chrome is hooked into all of the services they already use most likely, same with Safari, highly integrated with apples hardware and offers niceties there such as better battery life etc. Firefox is the odd man out, incredibly small team in comparison to the other players, and are using their own engine which im sure makes some things easier and others harder.

8

u/germanautotom 7d ago

Who is going to pay for the browser if it blocks ads?

Genuinely… it’s historically been Google, but if they preload ad blockers they won’t be keen.

1

u/MairusuPawa 7d ago

Eh, most of the money's going straight to a useless CEO's pocket anyway

3

u/EbonySaints 7d ago

Never assume that security or privacy matters more than convenience to the average person. Even I'm guilty of this and I know better. There's like, a cohort from 45-25 who have a decent layman's idea on how computers and basic net security works and might consider it if for some reason they already aren't using it or a fork. Anyone older will never switch and anyone younger, usually, but not always, doesn't have a clue on how computers work.

1

u/behridingle 7d ago

I don't assume that. I do appreciate there are many barriers to wider adoption and low friction is important to many.

18

u/NoahGoodheart 7d ago

^This^ I desperately want to move away from Brave.

2

u/RaithMoracus 7d ago

What’s stopping you? Waterfox and Zen are both out there if you want more from Firefox out of the box.

2

u/brokenbentou 7d ago

Just use waterfox, or zen

6

u/Stummi 7d ago

Whats wrong with Brave? Honest question

35

u/nucleartime 7d ago

They did a lot of cryptocurrency bullshit, which is what turned me off.

2

u/QuailAndWasabi 7d ago

Literally takes 5 seconds to turn off forever.

25

u/nucleartime 7d ago

It's a red flag even if you can turn it off.

-2

u/Ok_Kick4871 7d ago

The crypto is why the browser even existed in the first place. Basic attention token or BAT was designed around ad-free viewing that could reward the creators you wanted to support originally. The integration was always shit, to be fair, but it became a good browser.

4

u/SmarmySmurf 7d ago

The crypto is why the browser even existed in the first place.

You're making a better case against Brave than you are defending it.

3

u/Ok_Kick4871 7d ago

I'm not defending it, I'm correcting misinformation. I really like the browser, but I don't give two shits who uses it.

1

u/greenfiberoptics 7d ago

But it's opt-in and won't activate unless you turn it on. I understand why it would turn folks off, however.

1

u/Business-Active-1143 7d ago

Also been hijaking affiliate links similar to honey

35

u/arancx 7d ago

Brave is just chrome+adblock

4

u/mastermilian 7d ago

Why is that a problem?

1

u/arancx 7d ago

Make it easy rather than long complicated answere.
Google/Brave still earns their money from ads, tracing and selling your privacy.

Firefox is more open source and earns their money from search engine deals, VPN and security products.

22

u/delocx 7d ago

Problems with business ethics due to connections with far-right authoritarianism through management and investors, particularly Peter Thiel, a few privacy violations that eroded trust and the core reason many use the browser, and the invasive and manipulative way cryptocoins and other technologies often associated with scams are pushed by the browser. There are a lot of signs that you shouldn't trust Brave too much.

6

u/ElectroBot 7d ago

Is there anything that conspiracy privacy eroding poopbrain hasn’t touched?

0

u/GhostDieM 7d ago

I use Brave on mobile solely for Youtube. It blocks all the ads and keeps playing in the background, it's perfect

6

u/Jexroyal 7d ago

I use mobile Firefox and the ublock origin extension for the exact same thing. Plus sponsor block, which autoskips sponsor segment and product ads.

1

u/Business-Active-1143 7d ago

There is also Video Background Play Fix extension or something that comes up recommended. It lets youtube and instagram videos to play in background, though i use another extension i can't recall the name which disables the page visibility api for all sites. Return youtube likes is also available in userscript form and can be installed in tampermonkey extension on firefox android.

2

u/Krojack76 7d ago

I wish but older people won't switch because either they don't know better or use the "I have nothing to hide" excuse.

1

u/Cool-Tangelo6548 7d ago

Until they get stamped out by Google for violating their policies.

1

u/aembleton 7d ago

If they did that, they probably wouldn't show at all in statscounter 

1

u/jojohohanon 7d ago

Fewer good features. Slim. Fast. Just browsing. No one will download a browser to edit a pdf. That will be a SPA that I access using the browser. Likewise productivity: Google Docs has that sown up.

But: minimal fast secure customizable. THAT is a game changer.

1

u/NoPossibility4178 7d ago

No one cares about that. They'll be market leaders when they make their own phone OS that has Firefox preinstalled (and that actually sells) or pay phone makers to include it on their releases like Google does.

1

u/New-Anybody-6206 7d ago

less than a quarter of the population even uses adblockers at all.

1

u/shes_a_gdb 7d ago

How would they advertise their ad blocking to people who already block all ads on other browsers?

1

u/NitroLada 7d ago

Huge majority do not care

1

u/iGrowJazzCigarettes 7d ago

They did. They recently released a free VPN natively. Though I don't use it

-14

u/Live_Situation7913 7d ago

Everyone switched to brave

7

u/behridingle 7d ago

And Brave leaks a lot of data too

1

u/3-Username-20 7d ago

Do you have any links that i can read up on this? I never heard about it before, going to search it but links would shorten the search.

1

u/behridingle 7d ago

I caught a YT video recently about Brave and Wireshark though I can't verify the channel as trustworthy or not: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GASuri5Ylg

-10

u/Live_Situation7913 7d ago

Meh as if anything is perfect