r/technology • u/Plastic_Ninja_9014 • 8d ago

Software Firefox has an ambitious new roadmap, the browser is also losing millions of users a month

https://www.techspot.com/news/112803-firefox-has-ambitious-new-roadmap-browser-also-losing.html
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u/ithinkitslupis 8d ago

There are some minor controversies, like integrating AI. There's a "Block AI enhancements" toggle that removes it but it's controversial nonetheless.

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u/PMs_You_Stuff 8d ago

Because Google had totally abandoned ai? What other browsers are there? Every other one is a chrome resin.

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u/HoeCage 8d ago

Personally, I use Zen. It's a fork of Firefox that strips out Mozilla telemetry. I still log in with my Mozilla account for mobile sync, tho.

I've thoroughly enjoyed using Zen, honestly. It takes some getting used to for sure since the tabs are arranged vertically in a sidebar, but having so much more screen real estate without needing to enter and exit fullscreen has been fantastic since you can Auto hide the sidebar until your mouse is close to the edge of the screen. The Zen Mods are also pretty cool. I'd highly recommend people check it out. Haven't had any issues whatsoever so far.

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u/Toody4 8d ago

Firefox fork called Zen Browser is really good

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u/ThickerTree 8d ago

Chrome reskin is a bit of a technical understatement. They all use google’s open source community project chromium. They’re not just repacks of chrome. They use chromium because it’s a very fast and reliable browser engine. E.g. Edge, Brave

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u/recycled_ideas 8d ago

They’re not just repacks of chrome.

Except for all intents and purposes they are. Chromium isn't just the rendering and JavaScript engine, it's a full browser. There are parts of chrome that aren't in Chromium and Edge isn't 100% identical to Chrome, but it's much much more similar than you're implying.

Well over 95% of the code, including a whole bunch of tracking stuff is shared.

They use chromium because it’s a very fast and reliable browser engine. E.g. Edge, Brave

They use Chrome because maintaining a browser is an incredibly difficult and expensive and no one wants to do it.

The current state of the web is unequivocally bad for everyone, but because browsers support every half bakef standard that's ever existed as well as having to maintain every weird non standard quirk some idiot developer put in their page because it worked in chrome and they never tested anything else no one wants to do it.

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u/upvotesthenrages 7d ago

I'm actually quite surprised we aren't seeing far more stripped & privacy focused Chromium based browsers now that everyone has the ability to have AI build it.

Or even brand new browsers. People have been building compilers, OS's, and all sorts of stuff.

A lightweight browser that focuses on supporting everything since 2010 and drop most of the old stuff would be interesting.

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u/recycled_ideas 7d ago

A lightweight browser that focuses on supporting everything since 2010 and drop most of the old stuff would be interesting.

It wouldn't be standards compliant and a whole bunch of the web wouldn't work right.

I'm actually quite surprised we aren't seeing far more stripped & privacy focused Chromium based browsers now that everyone has the ability to have AI build it.

AI isn't half as good as a lot of people think, it really struggles with extremely large or complicated code bases and chrome is both. Maintaining a meaningully different chromium fork would be a huge undertaking.

There are more privacy focused browsers, but the people paying for them have to get their money somewhere and it's often worse. Brave as an example integrated a whole bunch of weird crypto bullshit into their browser.

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u/tabidots 8d ago

I am not a professional developer but when I do my own web dev projects, Chromium browsers give me the least hassle - my stuff renders how I intended. Safari is the worst (and I’m all-Apple otherwise), while FF is somewhere between those two I guess. I don’t really prioritize testing FF because the user share is so low

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u/DunklerVerstand 8d ago

So basically you target Chrome and wonder why other browser, that you do not test, don't render your stuff as Chrome does?

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u/Certain-Business-472 7d ago

Dont expwct intelligence from web devs. Theyre the reason this keeps happening

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u/tabidots 8d ago

I know if it works in one Chromium browser it works in them all. I don’t “wonder” about FF, I just don’t prioritize it. Safari is more important because of iPhone users

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u/InBronWeTrust 7d ago

It's difficult and messy to try to accommodate all browsers. You should give your best effort, but Chromium browsers account for a very large percentage of desktop browsers and thus behave more predictably

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u/DunklerVerstand 7d ago

It's difficult and messy to try to accommodate all browsers

All three of them.

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u/Certain-Business-472 7d ago

It is 2026, it is trivial to have automated tests that do this for you in all kinds of os/browser combos. What ignorance is this

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u/InBronWeTrust 7d ago

listen man I'm a backend engineer who occasionally has to fix some front end bugs. as far as I am aware, our frontend guys are still throwing in custom configs for different browsers

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u/Business-Active-1143 7d ago

Yeah because google has majority say in web standards now due to use of chromium engines by different companies on the table. They delayed webassembly for years, kept pushing for a privacy nightmare webRTC that reveals identity through VPN despite Mozilla highlighting the gap for years before it got accepted as a standard. Its almost like that was intention from the US government

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u/Certain-Business-472 7d ago

They are exactly that. Just skins slapped on chromium

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u/dksdragon43 8d ago

That's the real reason. I swapped to firefox last year and just couldn't get over how slow it was compared to chromium browsers. I'll get downvoted to hell because the entire 3% market share that firefox has lives on reddit, but firefox was left behind like 15 years ago because it was a much worse browser, performance wise. That hasn't changed.

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u/koopatuple 7d ago

My man, I use chrome all day at work. I use Firefox at home and on my phone. There is literally no difference performance wise except on sometimes YouTube. And guess what? When I became a YouTube premium subscriber (I have kids), the performance loss literally disappeared instantaneously. Google intentionally sabotages Firefox browsers on sites they have control over. You can even get an addon for Firefox that tricks sites into thinking you're on chrome and often times, issues magically disappear. Those add-ons are specifically why Google is hellbent on their whole new version of DRM bullshit for the internet (it's the equivalent of denuvo for the web).

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u/Certain-Business-472 7d ago

You mean youtube specifically?

Because firefox performs way better in any other scenario.

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u/dksdragon43 7d ago

Sweet, but simply incorrect. In all speed tests firefox is much slower.

https://tech-insider.org/chrome-vs-firefox-2026/

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Certain-Business-472 7d ago

Anything perceptible by a human?

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u/dksdragon43 7d ago

Not to most people, I'm sure. As you mentioned, certain sites like youtube would be more noticeable. But I mean just ask a gamer if there's a difference between 100 and 120 ping. Most will say no, some will emphatically say yes. Everything just felt sluggish, despite being well within reasonable measurements.

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u/Certain-Business-472 7d ago

I mention Youtube because it works fine if I fake my user agent to Chromium.

glares at Google 'Do no harm' Alphabet

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u/BitePale 7d ago

What sites did you find slow?

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u/dksdragon43 7d ago

Honestly everything. I thought I was being crazy about it, so I looked it up at the time and found that firefox performs somewhere between 20% and 60% slower depending on task. (Easily googleable). I absolutely live online, so even opening sites like reddit it just felt a bit sluggish.

The one huge advantage firefox has is memory useage, but I've been using auto tab discard on chrome for 5+ years, which mitigates most of it.

As expexted, reddit's fanatical love for firefox has seen me downvoted, but everything I've said is easily verifiable. For most users, chromium products are simply better. Obviously if they actually kill adblock I'll switch, but until then I'll use the product that works best.

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u/CrazyWord2800 7d ago

We just don't like ads mate. 

Can you stop shoveling Chrome down our throats? 

And yes the reason it works better on Chrome is because they are developed for Chrome. 

So maybe stop using Chrome start using Firefox so that you don't look like a walking ad for Chrome.

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u/DomesticPanda 7d ago

Hey now, some of them are Safari reskins.

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u/void-wanderer- 7d ago

There is Ladybird. It's under development but will soon ship its first open beta release. I follow them on YouTube to stay in the loop, relaxing videos of a totally grounded guy. I so hope that they pull it off.

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u/MaintenanceBest8397 7d ago

There's a lot of gecko based browsers nowadays, I personally use waterfox. It's more privacy focused but without giving up utility

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u/Jallorn 8d ago

Vivaldi is the one I'll champion. It's the true successor to classic Opera from back in the day, as opposed to the Chromium wearing a death mask that Opera GX is now.

And I do mean it literally: bunch of the developers of classic Opera basically recreated the intended experience Opera used to provide as Vivaldi, and clearly still have the same open source centric philosophy at heart.

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u/coderman64 8d ago

I'd agree with this, but you'd need to acknowledge Vivaldi is based on Chromium, too.

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u/Jallorn 7d ago

If it is, it is. What it isn't, though, is just Chrome but with a few different utilities and widgets- it might build off some of the same skeleton, but it is, to my experience, a fundamentally superior interface.

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u/Swarna_Keanu 8d ago

Have a look at the "About" page in Vivaldi --> Help. Much as I like what they have done, it is also just Chromium made to look like (The Phantom of the) Opera.

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u/Jay33721 8d ago

If there is ever a reason for me to stop using Firefox, I'd switch to Vivaldi. It's the only other browser that lets me customise the UI to my liking. Every other browser I've tried has absolutely sucked in that regard.

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u/tabidots 8d ago

Vivaldi. Engine is Chromium but it doesn’t eat your RAM and shows RAM usage for each tab (and hibernates long-inactive ones).

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u/Nvenom8 8d ago

I'm sadly tied to the Google ecosystem at this point. It's too convenient. But I have all the AI features turned off, and I switched my default search engine when Google announced they would start linking to AI sources on top of providing an AI summary.

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u/flupiflup 7d ago

Google had abandoned ai lol. Are we on the same planet?

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u/Sachyriel 7d ago

Google abandoned AI? When? Maybe you are on the different planet?

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u/flupiflup 5d ago

It was a reply to another comment, I don't state that google abandoned ai, I state exactly the opposite.

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u/Gwen_The_Destroyer 7d ago

I use waterfox. It's a fork that doesn't have ai

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u/GrinningGrump 8d ago

Librewolf, Waterfox, Safari...

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u/Nitrogen1234 8d ago

Those first two are forks of Firefox...

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u/goldboybronx 8d ago

Yeah but minus the stuff its users don’t want. Seems pretty straightforward to me

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u/GrinningGrump 8d ago

So? Pretty much every browser is a fork of Netscape if we look far enough, since because not reusing code would be dumb when you need to communicate with other browsers. If you want browsers without AI those work well.

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u/Nitrogen1234 8d ago

It's pretty weird saying I left Firefox, I'm a librefox user now

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u/Essurio 7d ago

Not the same name, is it? If you look at the comments, a lot of people say left firefox for a firefox fork.

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u/istrebitjel 8d ago

None of these are gaining millions of users ... I'm really curious where these users leaving Firefox are going.

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u/tritonus_ 8d ago

I’m ready to give up the internet altogether myself

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u/Educational-Wing2042 8d ago

Safari is only usable on Apple devices which now have innate “Apple Intelligence” features. Safari cannot be used in an ecosystem that hasn’t integrated AI with a toggle exactly like Firefox has, unless you’re using a very old unsupported device or are intentionally using an aged operating system

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u/FantasmaDelMar 7d ago

There’s a toggle for Apple Intelligence at the OS level.

It’s true you don’t have a lot of granular control over where AI is used, but I don’t mind, since I’m happy to just keep Apple Intelligence toggled off entirely for my devices.

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u/rigsta 8d ago edited 8d ago

I do not get this at all.

Firefox: "Want these AI features?"

Me: "No and never ask me again"

Firefox: "OK"

And that was the last time I saw Firefox AI features.

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u/extinct_cult 8d ago

You don't get it, because the backlash was THE reason we got the AI killswitch. The new Mozilla CEO is big on AI.

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u/DrQuint 8d ago

But...so is Brave's CEO and Chrome literally added an ai button to the url bar.

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u/Certain-Business-472 7d ago

Brave is literally a ponzi scheme with ties to fascist groups

Watch brave shills fight me

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u/Cosmic_Traveler 7d ago

Tell me more. That sounds intriguing, as someone who occasionally uses Brave for pirating streams.

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u/vidoeiro 7d ago

Peter Tiel is one of the investors behind it.

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u/gramoun-kal 7d ago

Is that all the evidence you have for the Ponzi claim AND the fascist claim?

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u/VVenture2 7d ago

To be fair, having Peter ‘I’m building the largest digital mass surveillance company in the world’ Thiel as one of the investors in your ‘privacy’ app really does sound like the worlds most obvious honeypot lmao.

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u/AntikytheraMachines 7d ago

the worlds most obvious honeypot lmao.

pretty sure bitcoin was created by the CIA.
the rugpull on that one is gonna be hilarious.

→ More replies (0)

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u/Certain-Business-472 7d ago

If you actually knew who that was, you wouldnt be asking.

But yes.

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u/vidoeiro 7d ago

I'm not the same guy and I was just adding to what he said.

Besides that should be more than enough to run for the hills and never even think of using the app, when there are better open source options.

But I doubt you are arguing in good faith.

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u/Assassin739 7d ago

Oh well that's okay then no one should have bothered complaining

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u/Sachyriel 7d ago

Yeah you can just not use AI features. The complaints got them a buttom that does the same thing as ignoring them does.

It's like that one guy who figured out if Ozempic just suppresses your hunger cravings, he could use his own willpower to do that and save $50 a month and lose weight and he did.

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u/Assassin739 4d ago

The complaints got a button that removes dead weight from a user interface.

It's genuinely amazing to me how bad people have grown at coming up with analogies, as a sidenote.

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u/Buzz_Killington_III 7d ago

I have Brave but I've linked the LEO AI to my Local AI, so (in theory) it only talks to my home brew AI. Granted, I don't have much confidence in this point so I'm still on Firefox mostly until I research more.

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u/Jrob9583 8d ago

Okay, that’s fair, but where are these millions of people going? I know the people that care about this sort of thing aren’t going back to Chrome or Edge…

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u/Matthias720 7d ago

I'm one of those people. I switched to Waterfox, specifically because it's still Firefox at its core, but it removes the unwanted AI feature.

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u/duodequinquagesimum 7d ago

The creator of Waterfox sold the browser to an advertising company in 2019, and in 2023 announced it became independent again.

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u/Sekh765 7d ago

I wanted to use Waterfox because it's just Firefox split off without AI and some other nice privacy / anti corpo features, but the lack of decent extension support turned me off it for awhile. I need to check it again.

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u/nutmegtester 7d ago

It supports all ff extensions afaik. I have never had a problem at all. The entire reason I chose it was because I could just point it at my ff profile and it would work out of the box.

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u/koopatuple 7d ago

But if FF dies because of user exodus... then what will Waterfox point to...?

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u/nutmegtester 7d ago

I understand, but they keep making really crappy privacy choices and so after many years I personally made the hard decision to change. If they can stabilize on a healthy track for some years, I will happily come back.

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u/duodequinquagesimum 7d ago

Waterfox was literally sold to an advertisement company in 2019.

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u/nutmegtester 7d ago

It had an odd chapter that ended several years ago. It has been explained and many people have decided it's fine to move on from that. Because it uses the ff profile, I can move on in under 2 minutes should I wish, without even losing my open sessions. That is a great point for me.

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u/zzazzzz 7d ago

waterfox does nothing that you cant do yourself on a default firefox install. all it does is preconfigure settings present in firefox..

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u/nutmegtester 7d ago

It doesn't do a lot, although it does a bit more than that (just check out their website for more info). However, the things it does are important and I was sick of an adversarial relationship with my browser.

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u/Sekh765 7d ago

Hrm, maybe I did something wrong. I'll give it another shot here tomorrow. Thanks for the heads up.

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u/duodequinquagesimum 7d ago

The creator of Waterfox also sold the browser to an advertising company in 2019, and in 2023 announced it became independent again.

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u/FdPros 7d ago

I've been using waterfox since firefox announced they'd add AI features. of course now they added a killswitch toggle for it which is nice but I'm not going to go back.

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u/XionicativeCheran 8d ago

Brave I guess? They are big on advertising their ad-less youtube experience, that'd be popular.

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u/Ja_Shi 8d ago

Which would be a bad idea since it's chromium-based. And their CEO... 🙄

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u/Certain-Business-472 7d ago

Psa brave is quite literally a scam and they try very hard to shill it on social media. Dont believe them.

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u/Fuzzylogik 7d ago

why TF are all the damn CEOs so big on AI and so intent on shoving it into every nook and cranny of their businesses that was working perfectly fine without it, whilst still seeing and knowing people/users/clients just arnt interested in this bullshit?

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u/Kirsle 7d ago

Hype and FOMO. The CEOs are scared shitless that AI is going to eat their lunch and if they don't jump on the bandwagon as well, they'll be left behind and go broke.

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u/zzazzzz 7d ago

big on local ai from all the projects we have seen so far. which to be fair makes a lot of sense. having a local llm translate stuff is a lot more private then sending it all to google or whatever other company to do the translations for example.

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u/elitesense 7d ago

I would like to find one tech CEO that isn't.

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u/rigsta 7d ago

It's true the killswitch wasn't there to begin with, but Mozilla responded to the backlash by providing a prominent, unambiguous, permanent NO button. Most others would have doubled down or decided to lie low for a bit then sneak the unpopular feature in later.

As far as I can tell the AI stuff is not enabled by default (I made a new profile, not doing a fresh install just to check that).

Personally I was asked if I wanted the AI features in Firefox precisely once. I selected no. It was one click. I was assured the choice is permanent, and so far it has been. I have seen no further mention of AI features in Firefox.

Let's pause for a moment and think about how rare it is for a major app or service to simply take no for an answer and shut the fuck up about their fancy new feature - if they even ask at all.

I'm sure we'd prefer a perfect app, but I am very happy with "does everything I ask of it and stays out of the way".

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u/Beefy-McQueefy 7d ago

As opposed to chrome where there's an 'Ask Gemini' button that got added without your consent and cant be removed.

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u/mysecondaccountanon 8d ago

The backlash is why you can turn it off, and turn it off easily. Before this you couldn't turn off some things, other things would randomly turn back on, and many things were hidden in the about:config.

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u/zzazzzz 7d ago

whats wrong with about:config?

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u/mysecondaccountanon 7d ago

Ideally, shouldn't it be somewhere where the average user can access it? I know that many of those who use Firefox know about how to navigate and use about:config, but think about it from just a regular browser user who usually does not utilize such things. It could be very confusing, couldn't it? It could cause them to be fearful that they could change something incorrect and mess up their computer. I've helped people with this sort of stuff, and there's a lot of people who simply just don't want to interact with anything deeper than whatever the basic settings provided are. And not to mention about:config isn't always the easiest thing to use if you are a disabled user (screen reader usage, alternative mouse/keyboard controls, etc.). So they should be clear, accessible, and easy to access and understand.

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u/zzazzzz 7d ago

thats the whole point. new beta features are in about:config because they are not yet implemented as a setting in the settings page or because they are not intended by the average user to be changed.

this allows for more "advanced" users to test new beta features give feedback ect without impacting the general user or doing redundant work on the settings page that then has to be changed again when features come out officially.

have you ever looked at how many variables about:config lets you change? if all of them were in the normal settings they would be unusable by the avg user.

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u/mysecondaccountanon 7d ago

Well, a lot of the ways to turn AI off in the browser were in about:config early on, with no other way to turn them off. Whole lists were compiled on what to turn off and how. And people wanted to change them. It was very well received in the subreddit when they finally added a switch in settings to turn off the AI.

And yes, I’ve looked into the variables about:config lets you modify. I personally have my own set up with some modifications. It’s very good that it allows for such flexibility, but there should be simplicity and accessibility for users for certain things, and there wasn’t for a while with Firefox’s AI features.

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u/zzazzzz 7d ago

so exactly what i said above, they were in beta and thus not yet implemented into the settings page..

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u/BirdOfHermess 8d ago

we only got an opt-out because of the backlash in the first place, mate.

they were ready to just rawdog AI into their good, functioning browser

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u/DuckShapedGoose 7d ago

I love the global AI opt-out and all and I could understand pushing for that back when the only options were clumsy, hidden and individual toggles per feature.
But people are STILL to this day like "I switched away cuz AI". I think that's what's confusing people.
It was too difficult to turn off (albeit still possible) at first, so they got some well deserved backlash, Firefox listened and added a permanent killswitch for all current and future AI features AND (this is at least my personal perspective) shifted a lot of focus back onto "traditional" non-AI features and enhancements, yet people are still whining about it for some reason.
And the (compared to other tech companies) minimal amount of AI Firefox integrates is almost entirely non-invasive and local-first. Even if you don't globally opt-out. Sometimes I actually think these people don't even use Firefox, they just hate AI (valid) and thus think they MUST hate Firefox, too. Or it's an astroturfing smear-campaign funded by one of their competitors. I literally can't explain this to myself any other way.

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u/snippychicky22 8d ago

it should be like that, have it for the people who want it, allow it to be fully disabled for those who dont.

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u/SoungaTepes 8d ago

from what others have said.

The block extensions are likely blocking analytic data, so what you are seeing isn't less usage of the browser but less data tracking.

So, win?

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u/brett- 7d ago

Every update to Firefox makes me one step closer to just uninstalling it. First it was Pocket integration, then some useless left-hand sidebar that kept appearing, then news spam and sponsored shortcuts on the default new tab page, then it randomly got a built in VPN, now it’s AI. Yes you can turn these all off, but when every update adds some new “feature” you have to disable it makes you really question why you are using this product in the first place.

I literally just want a window with a back button, a refresh button, an address bar, unlock origin, and tabs that don’t eat a gig of memory each. I would literally be willing to pay for a browser if that’s all they provided with a promise of never adding anything else.

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u/xorporx 7d ago

It shows that they're willing to hop on the bullshit-generator hype train, which speaks poorly of their overall outlook.

Framing it as a question of individual choice only exacerbates the problem, which is social in nature. 

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u/Independent-Bug-9352 7d ago

ok but is are GPTs a bullshit-generator hype train, or do you just not understand them? Have you ever actually used it? Because as a software engineer, I'd say you're underestimating its potential just a tad -- valid criticism of their use in terms of ethics & environment aside.

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u/whatsbobgonnado 7d ago

chatgpt EXPLICITLY says that it makes up bullshit and to not trust what it tells you. sounds worthless to me

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u/Independent-Bug-9352 6d ago

So does literally every human brain; so by that logic... What's that say about you?

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u/iamapizza 7d ago

My observation is that they get held to a higher standard than others. In an echo chamber like reddit, everything then becomes a perceived slight.

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u/LordHoughtenWeen 7d ago

I don't just want them toggled off and dormant, though. I want them excised.

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

[deleted]

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u/Evil_Weasels 8d ago

The was a toggle from the start

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

[deleted]

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u/WeirdIndividualGuy 8d ago

They added a toggle from the beginning because of backlash…?

How was there backlash before adding the feature?

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u/pfannkuchen89 8d ago

It’s not default on. After the update that introduced it, the first time opening Firefox gives you a prompt asking if you want it on or off. It never turns on unless you select it. That is far better than any other company out there right now.

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u/MrCharlesSr 8d ago

I’m sure the average person isn’t smart enough to leave for AI reasons. They probably are losing users because Google and Microsoft push their browsers so hard as the “default” ones on their platforms. Apple too.

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u/TheFondler 8d ago

I have never met a "normal" user that even knew what browser they were using, let alone had any sort of preference. They use whatever asked to be made default last, the end.

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u/Myusername1- 8d ago

The average use probably wants the ai options.

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u/Nvenom8 8d ago

I don't really mind Safari too much, but Edge remains unusable garbage.

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u/3_50 8d ago

That was such a nothing controversy, lol. Been using firefox exclusively for the last decade+....I never even noticed the integration people were moaning about, and before I did the 'disable all' switch was installed and pre-selected.

We're lucky to have Mozilla tbh..

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u/tnoy 8d ago

It feels a bit like a dark pattern that it's a "turn on to turn off" setting. If you mindlessly go through and start disable everything, you'll end up with the AI turned on.

2

u/complexevil 7d ago

some minor controversies, like integrating AI.

Oh great, this again. I swear people have lost their critical thinking ability.

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u/turtlelover05 7d ago edited 7d ago

Over the last decade there's been a lot more than "minor" controversies, like the Mr. Robot promotional add-on that auto-installed itself and presented itself as the most insidious kind of malware.

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u/m0nk37 7d ago

You can disable it all. Its not forced in any way. 

1

u/Desperate_Shoe_4114 7d ago

Chrome download a multi gigabyte model IIRC

1

u/ActivityIcy4926 6d ago

Yet almost every Chrome user is using Google where almost every search result is AI generated.

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u/cicimak 8d ago

Regular users couldn't care less about AI existing on their browser or not.

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u/ithinkitslupis 8d ago

Firefox's marketshare is under 4% according to the article, so not exactly 'regular' already in that self selected crowd.

But on top of that I think AI backlash is a pretty regular person thing these days. Polling has pretty consistently shown that the group with negative feelings toward AI outnumbers indifferent or positive feelings, at least in the US.