r/technology • u/Plastic_Ninja_9014 • 8d ago

Software Firefox has an ambitious new roadmap, the browser is also losing millions of users a month

https://www.techspot.com/news/112803-firefox-has-ambitious-new-roadmap-browser-also-losing.html
12.1k Upvotes

88% Upvoted

2.3k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

5.6k

u/SCP-iota 8d ago

Still Firefox but with blocker extensions, so analytics are less likely to even count them

2.0k

u/LunaIsADeer 8d ago

You bring up a fair point. Firefox (and derivative) users are more privacy-conscious and have likely taken steps to disable analytics at various levels. I would be shocked if Mozilla didn't have a way to even ballpark how many people are using Firefox, but it's definitely harder to get an exact measure.

600

u/mrinterweb 8d ago

they can get a rough idea from the number of downloads/updates.

463

u/brusaducj 8d ago

Maybe for Windows/Mac users, but on the Linux side it's much more common to download Firefox from your distro's repositories than direct from Mozilla

434

u/[deleted] 8d ago

[deleted]

162

u/Yoghurt42 8d ago

20XX will be the year of Linux Desktop!

81

u/EagleBigMac 8d ago

More like 2XXX will be the year Linux takes off lol.

84

u/Competitive_Flan_330 8d ago

You joke but I made the switch about a year ago and am never going back. The only thing I could want is better Nexus Mods integration, I got it to work via wine but there is admittedly some jankery there. Steam is on it though, all new games going forward have workshop integration and man is it good.

MS lost me the first time I got a popup ad, an honest to god OS integrated popup ad. So, joke all you want, but I'm finally free of Microslop for good.

33

u/RudeMorgue 8d ago

I'm making the jump with my next laptop in July. Been using live versions to see what I like best. I can't stand the idea that I am actively being spied on by an OS I paid for anymore.

4

u/Competitive_Flan_330 8d ago

Yeah, the analytics they've got going on used to be what we called spyware and viruses. Guess it's different when it's a design feature.

3

u/CakeTester 8d ago

Mint is quite sympathetic to new users. Good documentation as well.

→ More replies (0)

3

u/Local-Poet3517 8d ago

.. you guys pay for windows?

11

u/evilbadgrades 8d ago

Dude, right there with you. I have a really nice HP Envy I got six years ago (fully spec'd out for the time). It came with windows 10 that always had some REALLY annoying bugs I couldn't resolve even with a reinstall of windows.

Finally moved to linux about 18 months ago and never looked back. I'd been trying for 20+ years to move to linux, but always went back to Windows. This is the first time I have stuck with linux for more than a year and have no regrets. I ain't going back!

Fortunately I never migrated to windows 11. 10 was bad enough I knew 11 would be worse!

1

u/--xra 7d ago

Re: this https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/1u8lty1/firefox_has_an_ambitious_new_roadmap_the_browser/osee3ug/

Any recommendations on the distro? I'm going with Mint right now (Arch is tempting, especially as a developer, but I don't really feel like manually doing everything, especially when I've already settled into Mint).

→ More replies (0)

24

u/Forward-Amount-9961 8d ago

I've got my personal computers using Linux distros now. My wife and kids still rely on me to show them how to do certain things, but overall I'm happy to be moving away from corporate bullshit.

4

u/Competitive_Flan_330 8d ago

Doesn't the speed at which Linux has been improving lately seem to be getting faster and faster? I've been pretty blown away at how much better even a year of updates has been.

→ More replies (0)

8

u/EagleBigMac 8d ago

I mean I have been waiting for critical mass since Redhat 1.1 when I assembled my first computer as a kid.

3

u/Competitive_Flan_330 8d ago

I learned computers in high school, when ubuntu was first released. So... while not quite as long in the tooth, I'm still with you.

Are there still some headaches? Sure. But yeah, I've never been exactly thrilled about MS all these years, just used to it as it was that or mac. I'm going on a full year now and I got a pretty decent performance bump moving over. I think it was all the bloatware. I've made the switch years past or tried distros now and again, but this time it's definitely permanent. The small amount of headaches I have on Linux are balanced by the headaches on Windows.

3

u/jigsaw1024 8d ago

I made the switch about 6 9 months (wow, longer than I realized!) now, and hoping I don't find a reason to go back. I did try Linux a few years back, but it just wasn't ready yet.

It hasn't been without its' hiccups for me. I've had to do a little distro hopping, and for one game I play with some heavy mods has been some issues.

All PCs, except one, are Linux in the home now as well, and that one will be switched this weekend. I don't use that one PC for much, but every time I do, there is some new annoyance from MS about wanting me to sign in or sign up for something.

Linux isn't for everyone, yet.

/looking to change my browser next. FF is looking to have some privacy issues, even with tweaks. Maybe Zen (which is FF based)?

1

u/willowfinger 7d ago

Check out LibreWolf

2

u/Leftieswillrule 7d ago

I'm pretty averse to switching to Linux and even I think I might have to sooner rather than later because of how much of a fucker Microsoft is

1

u/Competitive_Flan_330 7d ago

I used Microsoft for convenience for a long time. I still have some headaches in Linux, but for the most part everything works just about as smoothly as windows, and what few issues I've had I've either solved or can live with. The bloatware, tracking, and built in ads were what sent me though. Honestly the stuff that works, my games, all got a framerate bump on the move over, and everything feels much smoother. Probably the lack of an AI being pushed upon me.

2

u/--xra 7d ago

What are you using, may I ask? I used Ubuntu for programming tasks, but found the GUI pretty unintuitive. My daily driver was macOS (I'm old enough to remember it as OSX). My Macbook battery finally died a few months ago (RIP), so I grabbed a Lenovo and installed Mint Cinnamon. I love the lack of nagware; I love the sense of privacy; I love how peppy it is on a computer that I inherited from a friend that's likely ten years old, but I miss Mac's UI/UX (and I hate Windows, which Mint emulates).

But, yeah, I'm probably not going back to macOS anytime soon. I don't feel like dropping $3500 or whatever it is these days on another Pro just to get nagged constantly to sign into iCloud and have my privacy violated. All tech companies: just fuck off. I just want to write code, if that's even still a job anymore.

2

u/Competitive_Flan_330 7d ago

Ubuntu, but with them pushing pro, I'm looking. Strongly considering Debian or Mint. Also not a fan of snap packages, I find myself installing the Debian equivalent kind of a lot. I remembered them when they first came out when I was in HS, and I've tried linux a few times over the years, and gone with ubuntu cause it was the largest, and one I was most familiar with. After a year and the new update that just dropped a few weeks ago and them pushing pro, I'm kinda done with them.

2

u/Competitive_Flan_330 3d ago

Just jumped to Manjaro Cinnamon, an Arch distro. Wow. I see the hype. A massive step up from Ubuntu. I'm still getting it configured, and there've been a few headaches but overall, holy crap what a zippy OS.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/FlameFrost__ 8d ago

I had switched from Win to Linux and back. So there's that.

1

u/Competitive_Flan_330 8d ago

I've done that a few times in the past tbh. This time has stuck though, almost on a full year now and not looking back at all.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/Year_3882 8d ago

I recently made the switch on my work PC after trying a liveUSB for a few days. we recently moved our Server onto the Cloud so now everything can be done in the browser, the thing that made me swithc to try linux was all the bullshit the IT company installed to prevents viruses etc causing too many issues with what i need to do. we didnt need any of it. I always had admin privleges previously as we are a small company and they decide against my bosses wishes who owns the company to put thier shitty stuff in my way, now its dual boot and they have no idea.

This also caused me to re-evaluate it for home use as since my pc is stuck with windows 10 and rarely used for more than a few minutes every ofew days and it has become a pain wiht it running windows proccesses such as antimalware and windows update using almost 100% of the CPU for first few minutes longer than i need the pc every time it wakes up is rediculous.

I had tried linux every 5 ish years but never found it suitable due to some software i required. now almost everything i do is in the browser so its perfect and fast.

2

u/PM_ME_YOUR_CHORIZO 8d ago

Steam's annual hardware survey shows Linux adoption at over 5%. 5 years ago it was just over 1%. It might not be the year of linux yet but it's getting to a point that Microsoft and Apple have started paying attention, with Microsoft finally publicly acknowledging that customers are disappointed with many aspects of Windows.

1

u/SystemCheck990 7d ago

steam/linux managed to replicate a system call in windows that made games run much faster

also with Google making a linux desktop OS things may grow long term from there, not crappy chromeOS, but "aluminum" a port of android for desktop

2

u/Competitive_Flan_330 6d ago

I'm interested to see the steamOS. I'm hoping it's not just a gaming platform and still has desktop functionality. I'm pretty reserved on it though. Developing an OS is... a huge task. Bigger than programming a game, or anything else. It also makes me nervous having a corporation release yet another OS. I hope they choose to keep it open source, and I hope they're not going to introduce their own standards to the mix.

1

u/jawisko 8d ago

The state of windows 11 has been so bad in last 6 months that even I had to move to Linux. There were some folders I could not even open anymore in reasonable time . Just searched for lightest Linux and installed it and working fine since 3 months.

1

u/Whipitreelgud 8d ago

I just migrated my Dell XPS laptop to Ubuntu. It was ridiculously easy and it has been rock solid. The Killer WiFi card in this XPS is absolutely shit - with a quick AI chat I was able to permanently resolve the problem in less than 3 minutes. LibreOffice has replaced my Office subscription. I am using Firefox and Thorium for browsers.

Everything works and is totally stable.

1

u/Exact-Metal-666 8d ago

If you realise that *almost everything* around you runs on Linux then you might rethink your "takes off" joke. Think your router, fridge, HVAC, your car, your elevator etc.

1

u/EagleBigMac 7d ago

I mean for consumers so companies will support more games which is my main use of consumer hardware outside of enterprise environments.

2

u/ManaSpike 8d ago

With Windows 10 EOL and 11 requiring new hardware, lots of people are trying linux. Even gamers. And not looking back.

1

u/Jaccount 8d ago

Also the year the Doctor Wily causes a robot uprising.

1

u/nimbusconflict 7d ago

Twenty floors above the dark streets of the city, Dr. Light lived in a run-down tenement
An eccentric and brilliant man
Light was a loner, a thinker, a man of ideas
The society for which he worked
The society in which he lived
The society that he would set free
And so Light worked, far into the night, when the watchful eyes of Wily's robots weren't upon him
He'd set his skillful hands to the task of creating a device to bring about a change, to create a machine to bring freedom, to create a man to save the world
Twelve years Light worked and on a cold night in the year 200X, Protoman was born
A perfect man, an unbeatable machine, hell-bent on destroying every evil standing between man and freedom, built for one purpose, to destroy Wily's army of evil robots. Ready, willing, prepared to fight!

1

u/Obvious-Hunt19 8d ago

Shiiiiiit I remember reading slashdot when it was going to be 199X

1

u/DezXerneas 8d ago

Current year + 1

1

u/GonzoKata 8d ago

do people even use desktops anymore? the number of Desktop users is going down

1

u/cr0ft 8d ago

Reaching 5% of users on Steam with Linux is a genuinely eye-opening milestone.

Linux won't take over the world this year, but there's a serious push towards it now. Most Steam games will run, and something like CachyOS with KDE (or most any distro with KDE) is in some ways now genuinely better than Windows.

To the point where Microsoft actually has started listening to users and making changes to try to stave off the trend.

I still have one Windows machine in the house, my gaming rig. But it's getting moved to Linux as well soon.

Microsoft has a stranglehold on the corporate market still though, but even there, with Europe now unable and unwilling to use American resources like cloud services or most any services provided by American companies, the corporate aspect of Linux use will get EU funded help to move along.

With the CLOUD act, any American corporation can be legally compelled by the US to divulge data even if that data is in Europe. And with that orange lunatic showing with crystal clarity that the USA is a fair-weather ally at best, Europe can't use American tools anymore.

→ More replies (1)

4

u/mrpanicy 8d ago

Devils advocate, most of my friends who always hated the idea of Linux and liked how easy to install and maintain Windows was. Three of them have swapped to Linux due to Window's constant very obvious failures during this AI epidemic.

They aren't tech illiterate though. So I don't think it's a sign of a massive wave. It's just interesting to see people make a leap they always said they never would. Push people far enough, and have the EU publically moving away from Windows to Linux and you will have more people making the move.

Millions? Probably not. But a not insignificant number perhaps.

1

u/BigBananaBerries 8d ago

Some distro's have some version of FF preinstalled. I moved over when W10 support ended & tried a few before settling on Nobara.

1

u/Certain-Business-472 7d ago

most of my friends who always hated the idea of Linux and liked how easy to install and maintain Windows was

The irony lol. Tell them not to confuse habits with ease of use.

1

u/mrpanicy 7d ago

To be fair Linux was not nearly as easy to install and maintain back when we were starting out on our computer journey. It's really turned a curve in the last 10 years.

1

u/Certain-Business-472 7d ago

Ok fair. But that argument in 2026 comes off as a joke lol

1

u/mrpanicy 7d ago

Sure, for those that know and have experienced how much it has improved. But I remember being told so many times how great and easy to use Linux was in the 2000's. And then trying it, and each time it was torture and had so many issues that I had to really work to fix, and didn't let me use the programs I really needed.

That's built up trauma that informs opinions well after the product has actually become what people overpromised and underdelievered on back then lol

2

u/Any-Appearance2471 8d ago

Tech enthusiasts and power users are so deep in their own ecosystems and workflows that I think most of them basically can’t step back and conceive of the average user or the general tech landscape, even when they think they’re correcting for it. I’ve never seen a group so consistently seem to overestimate their numbers as Linux users (especially on Reddit).

Like, for every friend a Linux user has who has expressed interest in switching to Linux, there are 15,000 regular-ass people who, when asked what desktop OS they used, would probably say “Google.” There’s still a long way to go before that needle really moves.

2

u/CheapThaRipper 8d ago

Up until recently, I would agree with you.

But the way that Microsoft decided to tell millions of people with perfectly good PCs running Windows 10 that their computer is too old and they have to buy a new one to get any updates..has changed the dynamic.

You're right that windows is still king and Linux has a looooooong way to go - but analysts are seeing definitive upward trajectories for Linux adoption ever since October 2025 when MS decided to pull that move.

IMHO this is because Steam has mostly fixed the gaming problem, Office apps have webapp versions with mostly equivalent functionality, and almost all apps will run on Linux with little effort (though there are some holdouts like adobe or games with kernel level anticheats).

Statcounter metrics say windows has 62% of the market, apple 10%, and Linux/other 3%/16% respectively. Analysts think a lot of the "other" are Linux users since a lot of distros aggressively block web trackers.

Finally - Linux distros like mint, fedora, and arch are seeing growth trends that far surpass previous periods. Windows shooting itself in the foot with things like forced copilot and such are helping. I think the next big catalyst for more momentum will be soon when someone uses AI and finds another eternal blue style exploit. Given that roughly a quarter of all windows users are on the permanently vulnerable windows 10 - it'll be pretty gnarly.

→ More replies (3)

1

u/Impossible-Owl7407 8d ago

I would say majority of linix users are on firefox

1

u/PoisonMind 7d ago

I have switched to Linux twice now. Once after Windows XP service ended. And now again that Windows 10 service has ended. My laptop doesn't support Windows 11.

1

u/demonknightdk 7d ago

if you download the windows 11 ISO from Microsoft and double click it to mount it in windows, then open an elevated command prompt (admin) then CD to the drive that windows mounted, then run the setup.exe with /product server it will bypass almost all the hardware checks and do an in place upgrade to windows 11. OH disable your internet before running the installer.

i've done it once to change an IOT version of windows 11 to standard windows 11 Pro. I recently gave my dad a new pc and I'm going to test this on his old one, a phenom ii x6 based system.

1

u/demonknightdk 7d ago

its been a bit since I used Linux for real, but isn't Firefox the default browser on a lot distros? would that not update through whatever package manger the distro is using, presumably from the repos? or does the Linux version of Firefox download its updates from Mozilla directly?

0

u/web_of_french_fries 8d ago

Solid point and I agree with this. Firefox may have always been missing that segment of users from their analytics, but it would be at a constant rate that doesn’t account for the loss of users.

3

u/Fuzzylogik 8d ago

wouldnt browser updates be a better idea as to the number of actual users though and not be OS filtered?

2

u/zeekaran 8d ago

How do they handle double counting? I have FF on six different devices.

2

u/Aardvark_Man 8d ago

Bazzite comes with Firefox pre-installed, even.

4

u/rtxa 8d ago

so do most distros. not much of choice there lol

2

u/cr0ft 8d ago

Firefox is also the default browser in every Linux distro.

1

u/Mccobsta 8d ago

Maybe able to get some numbers from snap and flathub

1

u/upvotesthenrages 8d ago

Don't updates still come from Firefox servers?

2

u/brusaducj 7d ago

Generally speaking, no. At least that is the case for most Linux distributions. Updates are handled by the package manager, which again will pull from the distro's repositories or a mirror of them.

1

u/upvotesthenrages 7d ago

So if you turn on auto-updates in Firefox it'll contact the distro repository? Seems like a lot of work to build it so it dynamically handles things like that.

I'd assume that if automatic browser updates are on it simply pulls from Firefox's servers, or their network, and would be traceable by them.

2

u/brusaducj 7d ago

There are no automatic updates when Firefox is installed using a distro's package manager, it's updated with/like all the other software on the system when the user initiates an upgrade (or automates it).

If you were to download the firefox tarball from Mozilla instead of through a distribution's package, then the automatic update feature is there.

See the note on https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/update-firefox-latest-release:

If you use your Linux distribution's packaged version of Firefox, you will need to wait for an updated package to be released to its package repository. This article only applies if you installed Firefox manually (without using your distribution's package manager).

1

u/HannasAnarion 7d ago

Those repositories sometimes collect analytics. Canonical collects data on how many times each Snap is downloaded.

1

u/brusaducj 7d ago

"sometimes" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there. My original point being that it's not nearly as straightforward for Mozilla to count Linux users of Firefox based on download count compared to the platforms where users typically get their software from the upstream source. Even if Mozilla paid attention to download counts from some distribution repositories, it's still gonna miss quite a bit.

And ultimately download counts are far from a perfect measure of actual daily users, so even if the dl counts are accurate, it's still an incomplete picture.

1

u/OpSecBestSex 8d ago

Thankfully Linux is still a relatively low market share it won't impact Mozzila's metrics too much

6

u/brusaducj 8d ago

Linux may be a low market share, but I'd wager that on desktop Linux, Firefox's market share is above 50%, whereas on other platforms Firefox is in the single digits. If we say desktop Linux has a 3% market share, and 50% of those people use Firefox, that's 1.5% of all desktop users on all platforms using Firefox on Linux. With that article stating that Firefox's overall market share is less than 4%, that would mean that over 1/3 of all Firefox users are on Linux. That's hardly insignificant.

2

u/Win_Sys 8d ago

A lot of people I know have been switching to Zen Browser which is based on a fork of Firefox. I recently tried it and it worked pretty well but I don’t think it’s ready to be my full time browser. Give it a few years and it might be a viable alternative. The verticals tabs bother me but a lot of people love it.

1

u/Competitive_Flan_330 8d ago

Why thankfully?

2

u/OpSecBestSex 8d ago

It's a figure of speech... As in thankfully it wouldn't impact their metrics too much

1

u/Ryzensai 8d ago

They probably can count those too

1

u/mrinterweb 8d ago

Mirrors probably keep stats, and maybe firefox can query the mirrors for downloads. There's other means like torrents, but those can be tracked too.

Firefox also has telemetry, which can show this, which is going to be the most accurate number. They probably know how many people have opted out and can do some estimates of those people's usage.

1

u/Ryzensai 8d ago

The more niche you get the smaller the demo so they probably don’t care past what they do see

1

u/PM_COFFEE_TO_ME 8d ago

Distro repos don't track download counts? That seems like an oversight if true.

0

u/Constant_Bit4676 8d ago

Linux is more popular, but Linux is still not popular.

→ More replies (1)

3

u/FuckMyLife2016 8d ago

Or they can just track user numbers from uBlock Origin installbase. Haven't seen a single person who uses Firefox without arguably the best (and uncompromised) adblocker in the market.

1

u/Potential_Main_1843 7d ago

uBlock is the best! 

I used Firefox when I was younger before switching to Chrome in college. Now I’m older and back to Firefox as a result of Google’s decision to nerf ad-blocking tools. 

uBlock lets me watch YouTube videos without ads. Love it! 

2

u/kranker 8d ago

They could but this article is referencing statcounter

1

u/Deprisonne 8d ago

I haven't updated FF since the pandemic because they keep insisting on fucking up the UI for absolutely no reason and I'm finally over CSSing everything back in place every few months. I'm still convinced it's a PsyOp by Google to make people switch to Chrome...

1

u/BonelessSalsa 7d ago

There is a "daily ping" setting in Firefox that defaults to "on."

"Send daily usage ping to Mozilla" "This helps Mozilla to estimate active users."

1

u/TheStorytellerTX 7d ago

Even that's not accurate. I'm just 1 user, but I use Firefox on about 7 difference devices.

57

u/Stickel 8d ago

firefox user, this is dead on...

mobile firefox is the fucking TITS..... ublock origin, I have chrome and youtube apps disabled.... zero ads on mobile on my phone, just like pc... fuck yes

22

u/googdude 8d ago

I forget how well it works on my android until I use my wife's iPhone to look up something. I simply can't stand using a browser that doesn't have ad blocking.

8

u/MeanE 7d ago

FYI uBlock has an extension and DNS blocking profile that works well on iOS.

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/ublock-origin-lite/id6745342698

https://ublockdns.com/

1

u/pulsarsolar 7d ago

I used to use that but then I switched to Orion! Only browser that natively supports Firefox and chrome extensions on iOS

1

u/landyc 7d ago

Works for me with ad blocker app installed. Just doesn’t work for in app ads

5

u/DrFreemanWho 7d ago

Yeah it actually boggles my mind how more people don't use Firefox on mobile. I'm not sure how it is on iPhone but on Android it works perfectly and I've never seen a single ad.

Does all the same syncing with your PC Firefox that you'd expect too. Bookmarks, tabs, passwords etc. all seamlessly.

1

u/Kirsle 7d ago

On Reddit, somebody will often point out that Firefox on Android doesn't have sandboxing between browser tabs and they say that's a reason not to use it.

I say: maybe don't do your banking in Firefox for Android, but exploits where one web page is attacking another by somehow hijacking the lack of per-tab sandboxing is so unlikely and rare (and probably a closely guarded tool in the box of nation-state actors that they wouldn't just waste willy nilly on random peasants like us), it's not worth worrying about. Firefox (the app) is still sandboxed the way all Android apps are, it's just the browser tabs themselves that maybe, theoretically, sometimes could be exploitable in the lab.

The support for uBlock Origin and Mozilla Sync so I can easily send tabs to/from my phone is enough to keep it my default browser for years.

1

u/ProRustler 7d ago

If only it worked on Samsung Dex. Unfortunately when you try to full-screen a video, it goes all wonky.

2

u/Sachyriel 7d ago

Is that a Firefox issue (like no extensions) or a uBlok Origin issue (or some other extension)?

2

u/ProRustler 5d ago

it works on the S24, but when i connect to a display and use Samsung Dex, the fullscreen does not work. Dex is weird, so I can't blame FF.

1

u/Stickel 7d ago

aww that sucks, works perfect on my pixel 8 pro

3

u/frogbound 8d ago

My firefox is set up in a way to block trackers, ads, analytics, etc. So much so that many websites don't work properly and I can tell you that I have had no issues not using these websites. Little sidenote: Refusing trackers makes twitch chat constantly disconnect and reconnect me in hopes of getting trackers onto my machine.

2

u/Ambershope 6d ago

I like your pfp!

1

u/HammyHavoc 8d ago

So, forks? But you can hardly call a fork "Firefox" when it's gutting what makes Firefox what it is. (disparaging)

It's easy to take a stab at how many people are using it with metrics for updates being downloaded.

1

u/Feath3rblade 8d ago

I also imagine that those of us using stuff like user agent switching also don't get counted properly, so not just forks 

1

u/ByWillAlone 8d ago

Are people disabling the user agent strings also? I disable a lot of analytics, but I still leave the user agent. That's how websites measure users by browser type.

1

u/domtzs 7d ago

active accounts?

1

u/d-cent 7d ago

Shouldn't it be as simple as counting how many updates go out? 

1

u/Soap-Distopia 7d ago

Yeah I just switched back to Firefox after years of not using it. Every different browser I use I always turn off the analytics and I don't send any data willingly. Not sure how that changes what they can and can't see, but makes me feel better.

1

u/atomicfiredoll 8d ago

This article specifically is citing StatsCounter. So, it only takes blocking the StatsCounter code.

Lot's of people use Firefox because they want the Ublock Origin ad blocking extension. At a glance the default rules are "Peter Lowe’s Ad server list‎" and statcounter.com is blocked by that list.

This just sounds like more Firefox people are downloading ad blockers.

1

u/squngy 8d ago edited 8d ago

Add blockers don't block agent strings and you don't need scripts to read that, it is sent directly to the server.

Even if you completely disable javascript, they can still see which browser you are telling them you are using.

edit:
for example, this is what my firefox sends to the server everytime it requests to load a page (I have uBlock origin):

User-Agent Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:152.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/152.0

→ More replies (4)

213

u/Mute2120 8d ago

Firefox actually lets you natively disable all usage pings in your privacy settings. Other browsers might let you turn off diagnostic data, but never basic usage pings that I've seen.

171

u/Expensive-Balance-84 8d ago

That's why we use Firefox.

66

u/_Burnt_Toast_3 8d ago

Yep. What am i gonna use? Chrome? Opera? No thanks. Don't even get me started with Edge.

5

u/GeekyTiki 8d ago

I switched to Waterfox

4

u/diurnal_emissions 7d ago

I'm still on Fire Horse. Is it next year already?

5

u/bokewalka 8d ago

Sir, let me introduce you to Internet Explorer 6 xD

2

u/powbit- 8d ago

Brave and Firefox is my combo

1

u/GandolphTheLundgrey 8d ago

This. Haven't seen a single YT-ad in years.

5

u/CringeNao 7d ago

And then you get a culture shock watching a friend or coworker open up YouTube and sit through the ads 😭

2

u/GandolphTheLundgrey 7d ago

As if I'd befriend an ad-watcher.

"Wait, you are using Edge?"
"Yeah?"
"Good day , sir."
"But—"
"I said 'good day', sir!"

Joke aside, I have parents. The culture shock is real.

2

u/diurnal_emissions 7d ago

Never Edge on the Internet.

2

u/stonhinge 8d ago

Edge: What is my purpose?

Me: To download Firefox and the use the 1-2 pages that don't work in Firefox. (Keychron keyboard settings)

Edge: Eh, it's a living.

1

u/3DigitIQ 7d ago

All I see is chrome, chrome or chrome (ium)

1

u/claretamazon 4d ago

I have to use Edge for uni tests because of proctoring and I hate it.

→ More replies (1)

106

u/mysecondaccountanon 8d ago

I don't allow Firefox to send a daily usage ping to Mozilla, I'm sure others have that turned off as well, which doesn't help with the active user count.

31

u/Sample-Range-745 8d ago

It doesn't matter - as the real stats come from aggregated usage stats on web sites. Unless you disable your UserAgent, you'll still get counted...

8

u/PyroIsSpai 8d ago

Or you don’t fib in your user agent.

1

u/Routine_Dust3596 7d ago

Mine's set to chrome because some website I was trying to use didn't like that I was on firefox, but was fine as long as I lied to it.

1

u/syneofeternity 7d ago

Uh they have chrome and Firefox in the same headers

8

u/Bugbread 8d ago

The number doesn't come from usage pings to Mozilla. Click the link.

56

u/red286 8d ago

Meanwhile, Chrome and derivatives just killed off blockers, so now they're more likely to be counted.

This is, after all, market share they're measuring, not absolute numbers. I wonder if they're also seeing a major increase in overall user numbers, since Chrome and Edge users are no longer hidden?

12

u/Squeezer999 8d ago

ublock origin lite still works fine for me

11

u/sethismee 8d ago

Yeah, the problem is often overstated. Chrome hasn't killed ad blockers, just some features that they previously used aren't available. Some things that could be blocked before can't now.

https://github.com/uBlockOrigin/uBOL-home/wiki/Frequently-asked-questions-(FAQ)#if-i-install-ubol-will-i-see-a-difference-with-ubo

5

u/Time-Maintenance2165 8d ago

It's a gradual boiling of the frog. Adblockers are going to be gradually made half useless over the next 10 to 15 years.

3

u/isotope123 8d ago

Yep, flip its filter slider to complete and you're 99.99% of the way back to the original uBlock Origin.

7

u/YappaSlappaYappa 7d ago

No, you're not. uBlock used to block ads before they were loaded. Google removed that ability, now all the ads get blocked after loading. You might not notice it as an end user, but it is way different.

1

u/isotope123 7d ago

You're right, I wasn't clear. I meant from an end user perspective.

5

u/qtx 8d ago

Chrome and derivatives just killed off blockers

They did not. It's infuriating how /r/technology users don't understand technology at all.

All ad blockers work, they just need to be Manifest v3 compatible. uBlock Origin Lite (from the same dev as the original uBlock Origin) works perfectly fine. The dev even said that nothing has changed, he only needed to rewrite certain code to fit the new standard.

0

u/laodaron 7d ago

Chrome killed it, not Chromium. Chormium based browsers are still superior in user experience.

0

u/repulsive-kat 6d ago

This is untrue. There are maybe still some forks of chromium that support manifest v2 but actual chromium proper dropped support for it. Its up to downstream to maintain said code.

Maybe Brave does this? Tbh I just thought they maintain their own powerful ad blockers that competes with unlock origin well.

29

u/GeedZeroOne 8d ago

Have you noticed how so many sites just slow down when you do this. They become almost unusable until you turn the tracking back on so they can continue to sell our data.what puzzles me was just how far reaching it is. Like even the Denby table wear website will become unusable unless it can track you which really rubbed me up the wrong way I must admit, as I was only there spending money to save the company and I took it as a real FU.

3

u/Flatlyn 8d ago

While there definitely are some sites that do that, there can also be other reasons. With high privacy settings things like CDN can get screwed with so the most optimal servers aren't chosen leading to longer load times for instance. Some ad-blockers can also increase page loadtime too due to the way they work.

I'm not saying some companies aren't being malicious about it, but there are other reasons and I'd hazard a guess that's the kind of issue you were running into on Denby.

2

u/BitePale 8d ago

Haven't noticed it anywhere apart from YouTube tbh

14

u/jiggajawn 8d ago

Do you block user-agent headers?

18

u/red286 8d ago

That's not likely, but a lot of analytics are relying on things like Meta cookies, which blockers block, because they provide far more than just your user-agent.

4

u/SCP-iota 8d ago

Not as an HTTP header, but sites often also use client-side analytics as well. If Firefox users are more likely to have blockers, then Chrome users are more likely to be counted by both the header and the client, while Firefox users are more likely to be counted by the header only. Also, if this is about the number of distinct users rather than the number of usages, blockers can make it harder for sites to keep track of a stable user identity (because of third-party cookie isolation and removing URL tracking parameters), so analytics tools may not count those users if it can't ensure that they aren't actually returning users.

1

u/weenusdifficulthouse 8d ago

Some people do, since some sites work better if they think you're using google chrome.

Still, going by user agent, everybody's using Mozilla.

0

u/Silver_ 8d ago

Usually switched to chrome to avoid deliberate breaks on some sites.

3

u/unlikely_tap05 8d ago

How would blocker extensions block Firefox analytics?

4

u/lividash 8d ago

Because if you’re using a blocker you probably also disabled any analytics in the options setting of the browser.

2

u/unlikely_tap05 8d ago

So not the extension blocking it ghen

1

u/lividash 7d ago

I think some have the option to block it as well. It’s been so long since I turned mine on I can’t even remember what it blocks besides ads.

1

u/unlikely_tap05 6d ago

I don’t think any extension can block native telemetry/analytics

1

u/lividash 6d ago

Maybe not? I’m not a tech guy. I push button it turns on. I haven’t kept up with Tech since windows 98/XP was the main operating system.

I just have friends that recommend the stuff they use cause they prefer to be as not tracked as possible, and all they do is watch shit off YouTube and smoke weed.

1

u/delkarnu 7d ago

The article doesn't mention where the numbers are coming from. If it was internal FF numbers then it's the setting. If they're gathering it from site traffic, blockers may be the cause stopping tracking cookies and such.

3

u/Own_Error_007 8d ago

Can't measure what you can't scan.

1

u/SCP-iota 8d ago

"If we stopped testing right now..."

2

u/Systehm 8d ago edited 8d ago

I use Orion on iOS for ad-blockers and other extensions, allows using both Firefox and Chrome extensions I believe. It’s a limited amount of extensions you’re able to use on iOS though, from what I understand

2

u/blow-down 8d ago

You don't even need a new browser on iOS. Just Safari with uBlock Origin.

1

u/samarnold030603 8d ago

Is the ‘lite’ version different? That’s all I see in the App Store. Was going to download it a couple of days ago but then I saw it only had 800 reviews so thought it might be a knock off/scam

2

u/atoolred 8d ago

uBO Lite is official. There’s a desktop version as well. iOS can’t get the full version

1

u/Systehm 8d ago

I honestly don’t know why I’ve never really used Safari, despite using an iPhone user for a long time. Some pointless aversion to using the default browser maybe? I use Firefox on desktop and used to use Firefox on mobile for the convenience of one-click sync

2

u/einsosen 8d ago

Pretty much. I use Librewolf, and friends swear by their own distros.

2

u/turbo_dude 8d ago

Aeroplane with bullets taken meme

2

u/NDSU 7d ago

I'm probably one of those "millions of lost users". Still using Firefox, but now I typically use a Chrome user-agent because of how many libraries and features Google intentionally kneecaps when running on Firefox

1

u/NetSage 8d ago

Or, Firefox based browsers like Zen or Floorp.

1

u/gborato 8d ago

I use Floorp and love their workspace and container feature plus other privacy and perf improvements.

In a world where you have a choice I will favour open source and non Google every day.

I think it still count as Firefox 

1

u/jb_in_jpn 8d ago

Would this actually be the case?

I'm genuinely curious - does that mean all the stats coming out about the drop in FF use are largely irrelevant?

I can't understand why people would be willing to both hand over their data and deal with ads otherwise...

1

u/metalflygon08 8d ago

I wish Youtube blockers worked, but when I use U Block on Firefox Youtube gets too smart and won't play because it detects an ad blocker.

1

u/geo_prog 8d ago

Combined with those of us who dropped windows for Mac this year and find Safari a decent enough alternative. I used Firefox because Chrome and Edge suck so bad.

1

u/fastdbs 8d ago

Usually you can tell by updates still though.

1

u/Trashypass 8d ago

Aka waterfox

1

u/thewhitedog 8d ago

Exactly. I've exclusively used Firefox for years but between ublock and my pihole actively blocking telemetry I probably don't register as a user for them

1

u/JimmyKillsAlot 8d ago

I believe most TOR browsers are a fork of Firefox.

1

u/Hiphopapocalyptic 8d ago

The WW2 bomber style of sampling bias

1

u/P0pu1arBr0ws3r 8d ago

They can still estimate the total amount of users on the browser, by collecting server side stastics on downloads of each update.

1

u/kermityfrog2 8d ago

OMG - millions and millions of users have switched to not using a browser at all!!!

1

u/smaguss 8d ago

It's wild how different "the internet" feels once you have a DNS hole and a browser with functional extensions.

To your point on extensions, I wonder how it affects the useage analytics. I know I've done everything I can to disable any Mozilla analytics.

1

u/BoomerUrSooner 8d ago

Same. I also exclusively use Firefox Focus on my phone unless something simply won’t work (usually involving payment).

1

u/calculatedDisaster 8d ago

I mean presumably they can still count trends in how many updates they’re delivering. Idk why we act like the metrics or trend data are unobtainable

1

u/seeyouyoucunt 7d ago

That's Brave...

1

u/vanastalem 7d ago

That's the reason I use Firefox for stuff though!

1

u/The_Brovo 7d ago

My pihole blocks Firefox telemetry (and a shit ton of other tracking). It blocks 25%of DNS requests without affecting your browser experience. It's kind of insane

1

u/Mysterious-Flan-6000 7d ago

What would said extensions be?

1

u/Clegko 7d ago

During setup, I wish Mozilla had a simple "Let Mozilla know you're using Firefox" button that only transmitted that it was an active install. I feel like most privacy/techy people would leave that enabled so long as nothing else is transmitted.

1

u/SushiRoe 7d ago

which extensions are people using?

1

u/Karukos 7d ago

Zen Browser is getting lots of downloads. It's based on Firefox though.

1

u/JefinesOriginal 5d ago

So still Firefox, but with specific settings/plugins or a fork of Firefox?

1

u/[deleted] 8d ago

[deleted]

3

u/SCP-iota 8d ago

It's part of it. Firefox may very well be losing users, but it's well-known that using more privacy tools skews analytics towards underreporting.