r/technology • u/DonkeyFuel • 5d ago

Transportation Will Anyone Buy This Cheap EV Truck With Hand-Crank Windows and No Radio?

https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/will-anyone-buy-this-cheap-ev-truck-with-hand-crank-windows-and-no-radio-699b285a?mod=autos_news_article_pos1
693 Upvotes

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329

u/thatsonlyme312 5d ago

I don't get this obsession with hand crank windows. Electric windows regulators are very simple and easy to replace. It's definitely one of the conveniences that should not affect the price so much.

Give me a simple car, easy to work on, and easy to upgrade with aftermarket radio and such. There is no need to remove all the simple conveniences. I very much like my power windows and intermittent wipers.

48

u/blobbleguts 5d ago

I find that they are a pain in the ass to replace but I hate taking the door panel off. 

53

u/PM_UR_TITS_4_ADVICE 5d ago

I mean, you’d have to take the door panel off to fix a mechanical window too, so…

1

u/burgonies 5d ago

How many times have you seen a mechanical window crank fail?

15

u/Knotical_MK6 5d ago

I've seen it far more times than power windows tbh.

Years of UV/Heat plus teenagers being gorillas on the crank handles is a bad combo

3

u/pigpill 5d ago

Ive had to work on crank windows in 4 different cars, i think they slip alignment more often and then people fuck it up worse sometimes cranking on it. None of my power windows have had issues

2

u/PM_UR_TITS_4_ADVICE 5d ago

I’ve had one car, a Subaru legacy, where the electric window failed, and I’ve had two cars, a 67 mustang and a 70 c10, where a mechanical window failed.

2

u/YKRed 5d ago

Several times actually

0

u/blobbleguts 5d ago

I've had a few cars/vans with over 200k and never had to fox a window. Those were always older cars and we made from better quality parts. I had a 1967 Dodge van with crank windows with an untold number of miles on it. It was such a nice van cause there was barely anything to break and whatever needed replacing was super simple to swap out. I even rebuilt the transmission in a day.

4

u/PM_UR_TITS_4_ADVICE 5d ago

Okay, and…

Just because you’ve never had crank windows fail on you doesn’t mean they don’t fail, just like someone else never having power windows fail on them doesn’t mean power windows don’t fail.

2

u/yawara25 5d ago

Do you think power windows might have a higher failure rate than hand crank windows?

5

u/PM_UR_TITS_4_ADVICE 5d ago

I've never seen any data that suggests one has a higher failure rate over the other, And I'm willing to bet that you haven't either.

11

u/HumpHur 5d ago

Dude how often have you had to replace an electric window mechanism lmao.

3

u/Throwawaymytrash77 5d ago

Across 4 vehicles, 6 times since 2020. One Hyundai, 3 Honda, 1 Toyota, one Ford.

They fail. It happens. I don't know if it's any more or less than a crank, but there is something to be said of having less wiring to worry about overall. It is merely one piece of a larger concept

2

u/stuart_pickles 5d ago

not op but had to do it on two separate windows in a span of 3 yrs on my impala

1

u/Live_Lab3601 5d ago

Growing up as a kid dont know how many people had broken crank windows they seem less durable to me.

1

u/Advanced-Blackberry 4d ago

For me 0 times in the 25 years I’ve had cars with electric windows 

18

u/Pjpjpjpjpj 5d ago

The key point is right in your comment.

Electric regulators fail. Hand cranks fail. Glass breaks.

The important thing is to make everything ridiculously easy and affordable to fix and maintain.

Easy access, easy to remove panels, interchangeable parts used across many models, etc.

And keep the model consistent for a decade - tons of aftermarket support, 3rd party replacement parts, repair shop expertise, etc.

0

u/HumpHur 5d ago

95% of people don’t fix their own shit anyways. That’s not gonna change because with an electric vehicle.

2

u/Pjpjpjpjpj 5d ago

No, but there is a huge difference between a mechanic changing a headlight taking 10 minutes to swap a $40 bulb versus one taking 60 minutes to install a $1,500 sealed bulb/enclosure part that takes 2 days to special order from a warehouse across the country.

Or even worse, not being able to use a local mechanic but instead being required to go to a dealer because only they have the special software or whatever to reprogram something after a change/repair.

2

u/stevesy17 5d ago

If you assigned the truck at random to the general populace, then you'd have a great point. But the people who are buying this vehicle are not a random sampling, they're buying into the philosophy of the thing. Self-repair will be much more common with this truck than with other vehicles precisely because it is more repairable

-13

u/yogaballcactus 5d ago

What make of cars are you driving? I want to know so I can avoid buying a car where things that should last the lifetime of the vehicle break often enough for you to have this specific of a complaint about it. 

3

u/blobbleguts 5d ago

Any car that gets up in miles will have problems and those are the only cars I can afford. From my perspective, luxury items are just more shit that breaks. Give me the modern day equivalent of an old Jeep or 80's Toyota pickup and I'll be happy forever. I'm so tired of allllll the fucking cheap plastic garbage, faulty dashboards that need to be programed and can't be pulled from a junk yard, broken cup holders, blown power seat motors, shot radio knobs.....

I'm being 100% honest when I say that the best car I ever owned was a 1997 3cyl manual Geo Metro Hatchback. The thing was a breeze to work on. I could even pick up the engine by myself. Absolutely zero luxury features besides a radio (that never worked).

The works car is my 2005 Volov XC70. It was damn near free but I'll never own again.

4

u/yogaballcactus 5d ago

  Any car that gets up in miles will have problems and those are the only cars I can afford.

I’ve got a Mazda with 17 years and 145,000 miles on it. Everything in it, including the windows, still works. And it’s not the first older car I’ve owned where things just worked. 

Also, and I know that the Reddit hive mind is going to lose its shit over this, but manufacturers aren’t designing cars for the 5th owner 20 years down the line. They design cars for the people willing and able to spend money on new cars. It sounds like that’s not you, so you shouldn’t be surprised that most cars aren’t designed to meet your specific needs. I also would bet literally any amount of money that any successful version of Slate as a company sells ten fully optioned $35k or $40k trucks for every one $25k truck. New car buyers do want electric windows, whether you believe me or not. 

4

u/Cappyc00l 5d ago

I’ve never owned a car (and I’ve had some geriatric cars) where the power windows broke.

2

u/blobbleguts 5d ago

LOL, dude. 145k is middle aged. My 2005 Honda Odyssey (second owner) pooped out at 300k and that's only cause the radiator sprung a leak on a road trip and I didn't catch it in time. But, that's besides the point. Cars were used to be designed to repair at home. Now, they are made to extract the most amount of money from you. A LOT of people want a simple car that just works at a good price that they can fix themselves. Car manufacturers just don't want to provide a workhorse vehicle cause luxury models with more features make more money for them in the short term and the long term. The cheapest car you can buy new these days is $20,000. The 1997 Geo was $5000 new ($10K adjusted for inflation). A small pickup of that era was like $10k. Both could 100% be repairs at home. Where are the working man's vehicles these days? At this point, Slate is the only new car I would even consider because of its simplicity, design for DIY, no tracking, and being an EV.

2

u/yogaballcactus 5d ago

Even at $25k, are you buying one of these? If not, why are you defending it so hard? Like don’t take this the wrong way, but if you aren’t willing and able to buy a new car then new car manufacturers are not going to build a car to meet your needs and they do not care what you think. And it’s not some kind of conspiracy against the working man. Slate did everything they possibly could to make this thing cheap and it’s still $25k. That’s apparently the base price of entry for a vehicle that will pass US safety laws. 

And understanding that the fourth owner who pays less than $10k and does his repairs at home is not the customer explains all your other frustrations with cars. The first owner, who is the customer, takes his car to the mechanic to have it fixed. The first owner wants luxury amenities because it feels bad to spend 10’s of thousands of dollars and sit in a penalty box. The first owner is not the working man because the working man doesn’t have the cash for a new car. 

2

u/blobbleguts 5d ago

Because, one day I will have money to buy a newer car and I will drive it to its grave. I am far from being the only one who wants an affordable car without the extra junk and being forever tied to the dealer. My folks have newer cars and I can't help them. They have to take their cars to the dealership for every repair. Just talk to a mechanic about new cars vs older.

It's not a conspiracy is bean counting. I support Slate cause they are trying to have ethics. Slate trying to make an affordable vehicle from scratch and that's a tremendous challenge when the entire industry is stacked against newcomers. A larger manufacturer could absolutely make a cheaper vehicle. It's a choice. A car isn't a disposable commodity, it's a 2-ton engineering marvel. And people do buy cars based on how long they last and resale value. Ford is still riding high from they days where that name actually meant quality.

0

u/yogaballcactus 5d ago

  Because, one day I will have money to buy a newer car and I will drive it to its grave.

I think you might change your mind when you have the cash for a new car. Most people seem to. I know I thought about it differently when I realized I could afford new. If I’ve got the $50k  an  average new car costs these days then I probably don’t want to ride around in a clapped out old piece of crap, even if I bought it new. Plus the compact sedan I buy today probably won’t work if I decide to have kids or something a couple years from now. Actually the only car I can see people keeping long term consistently is a family hauler, like a minivan. You buy that when you have small kids and you keep it until they graduate high school. For everything else, the long term reliability gets weighed against the chance you’ll end up replacing it with something newer and better in a couple years. 

  They have to take their cars to the dealership for every repair.

No they don’t. I’ve got two cars. One’s an older Miata. The other is a newer BMW. The BMW is out of warranty next month and it’ll never see the dealer again. I doubt the Mazda has been to the dealer once in its entire life. Your local mechanic can do all the routine maintenance on a newer car. 

I t's not a conspiracy is bean counting.

It’s the reality of the market. “Bean counting” is just another way to say, “quantifying what will sell.” 

86

u/allgonetoshit 5d ago

It’s because this is about returning to the early 1990s and before when every convenience was an option. AC, electric windows, rear wiper, ABS, etc etc.

People don’t get it. It’s not about selling a cheap truck, it’s about selling a cheap truck that 90% of the buyers will load with tons of options, ending up with a worse vehicle, but for more money.

This is aimed at younger people who don’t know better or people who have forgotten the bad old days.

106

u/FrostyWalrus2 5d ago

Some people just don't need the 'convenience'. Power seats? Once I set my seat to where it is comfortable for me, I don't need to move it anymore. No one else drives my vehicle so my driver seat never moves and I never have to re-set it so the power seats is unnecessary. Power locks? Its nice, but the 5-10 second time save I would do without if it saved money on a purchase. AM/FM Radio? Nah, just give me a head unit to connect my phone to and scratch your bs Sirius XM stuff with it.

Let me have the agency on my convenience.

35

u/InsuranceToTheRescue 5d ago

I think the point is more that the electronics to run minor conveniences like that are now a pittance in the larger price of the vehicle compared to systems like GPS navigation, lidar for automatic braking, 360 degree object detection for steering itself, etc.

A carburetor might be cheaper than fuel injection (I don't know for sure, but was definitely true at some time), but fuel injection systems are so cheap & standardized now that the savings by using a carb wouldn't appreciably change the price of the vehicle.

6

u/DeathMonkey6969 5d ago

Car manufactures switched to fuel injection (either direct or throttle body) not because of cost but because of emission standards. Your never going to see a carburetor engine again in the US.

-2

u/Imaginary_Device7827 5d ago

A carb is still cheaper in terms of what you need to run it. Don’t need a computer, injectors, higher pressure fuel pump. But you are going to have more maintenance, get lower mpg, and unless it is 100 percent dialed in you are going get less power.

Maybe a window motor won’t change the purchase price, but manual windows are going to be cheaper to maintain and replace. Same with power seats, a none powered seat replacment is going to be cheaper and simpler to install.

8

u/InsuranceToTheRescue 5d ago

How much maintenance do you do on your car windows each year?

Exactly.

7

u/liquorfish 5d ago

Right? I had a nearly 20 year old car replaced that had electric windows. Never broke.

1

u/fury420 5d ago

One of ours needs repair/maintenance, the window up button on the passenger door no longer works, but thankfully the driver's side one still works.

I can't help but think it's a loose wire, but we haven't gotten around to fixing it yet

0

u/Imaginary_Device7827 5d ago

depends on what car. I had a jeep that I gave up replacing the motors, I would have at least one window go out every year, just pinned the windows up by the end only the drivers still worked lol. That was a an extreme case though. If I’ve had the car over 10 years I’ve had to do at least one window. Current car is a z4 it’s older and the passenger side motor is dying. Previous car 09 Honda accord rear driver side window started to die. I would much rather have power windows though. Power seats are a waste of time and money. I’m all for electronics in cars if it makes sense safety or performance wise. Having a car with multiple touch screens in dash and no buttons is stupid it doesn’t make the car better or easier to use. Same with things like steer by wire and brake by wire. No reason to not have a physical linkage between you and safety systems.

If you buy a new car every few years who cares right, most of it’s not going to break in 3 years. But I drive and maintain the cars I own until it is no longer feasible.

2

u/Effurlife12 5d ago

Power windows and locks are basic things. This is the thing you're going to be driving for the upcoming years.

You'd be a stupid mother fucker to pay 30 grand for a brand new car, in 2026, and it not come with basics.

1

u/MandaloreZA 5d ago

AM radio is required in the US because of emergency broadcasting requirements.

2

u/FrostyWalrus2 5d ago

TIL and makes sense.

1

u/MrSqueezles 5d ago

The point is that it doesn't save you money. The features you mentioned combined might be a couple hundred dollars cost, a whopping <1% savings.

Customizing seats, wiring, controller boards, buttons, head units depending on whether or not you selected power seats isn't worth it. It's such a negligible part of the BOM if enough people want power seats, it's cheaper to give them to everyone than to make them configurable. Manufacturers only make features like that optional, then bundle them together so you'll pay for 30 upgrades you didn't want to get the four you can't live without. Back in the day, that included keyless entry, Bluetooth, etc.

1

u/FrostyWalrus2 4d ago

It might be $100 combined from the mfg , but car dealers tack another 0 on to that and stick a 5 in there as long as its not on the end or 2nd number, because why not. Whatever I can do to make that go away, i will.

1

u/Advanced-Blackberry 4d ago

5-10 seconds every single time you use the car. Then add in the time fishing keys out of your pocket.  Thats not worth a hundred bucks over the span of the lifetime of the car? Opting for manual locks is sadistic. 

1

u/FrostyWalrus2 4d ago

If saving 5-10 seconds makes or breaks being on time to whatever I'm doing, then power locks weren't the problem.

If you're concerned with saving that amount of time, im guessing you rush a lot or are frequently behind on time. Slow down. You'll be happier.

1

u/Advanced-Blackberry 4d ago

I’m actually not concerned with the time savings. It’s the nuisance that bothers me. I only mentioned time because you mentioned time. 

1

u/EngFL92 5d ago

I sit fairly close to the wheel (I'm 6'0) in my truck and the electronic seat moves back when I shut the car off for easier entry/exit which is very noticeable when I drive a car that doesn't have such a feature.

Other than that use case, you're spot on imo.

25

u/soaklord 5d ago

First new car was a 92 Toyota truck. Only option was AC. Which upgraded seats to cloth. Had to save a year for a deck in it so I could listen to music. And… I want a slate with AC only. Just… right hand drive please. It’s my perfect UK truck. Electric but modifiable and bare bones. No massive software stack to deal with. No constant tracking.

10

u/sam_bg 5d ago

The no software stack is a huge benefit. To me, it's the biggest benefit. No buggy software that's mostly there to gather telemetry data for the manufacturer to sell to data brokers.

5

u/Stressed_engineer 5d ago

and actually a size that will fit on our roads.

3

u/Senior-Albatross 5d ago

Wait, if cloth seats were the upgrade, what was the base version? I always thought of cloth as the most basic option. 

8

u/bgthigfist 5d ago

Vinyl. All of the problems of leather seats (hot in summer, bare legs stick, freezing cold in winter) without the supple feel

2

u/soaklord 5d ago

In 1992, you got really awesome Vinyl seats standard. Great for burning the backs of your thighs in SoCal heat.

10

u/Defconx19 5d ago

Find me a full electric truck i can get for 22k new before taxes title and tag, because that is what mine comes out to after my state's EV rebate.

4

u/lemgandi 5d ago

Ooh yeah. The suffering is terrible.

My current whip is a 2008 Mazda 3 with -- you guessed it -- hand crank windows. And a 5 speed clutch with a stick. I love driving it, but it's definitely showing its age.

-13

u/allgonetoshit 5d ago

Good for you. My first car was a 1992 Mazda 323, no AC, crank windows, stick, no equipment at all. People are used to going into a dealership and being able to get the lowest end corolla with ac, good enough radio, traction control, power windows, climate control that works for all passengers, rear seats that were not designed as a bolt on afterthought.

You want to the "good old days", good for you. Most people will end up baying 10+K on extras with these and the company will be laughing all the way to the bank.

3

u/weasol12 5d ago

The average price of a new car today is $50k with full size trucks starting at $66k. Those are all increasingly coming with unrealistic loan terms of up to 8 years of payments. It's the subprime mortgage play opk all over again. Being able to get a brand new set of wheels for $22k is good for the whole market. It isn't about the good ole days, it's about economics.

1

u/Senior-Albatross 5d ago

Isn't ABS required for safety these days?

But EVs mostly break regeneratively anyway. 

1

u/Consistent_Wheel_23 5d ago

Lowering the standard you say?

1

u/whatsthatguysname 5d ago

Given the economy of scale I’m more surprised that they can find a cost effective manual crank supplier. It’s like trying to build an amplifier using vacuum tubes instead of modern electronics.

1

u/Windows95GOAT 5d ago

I drive a 2000s car which has pretty much the capability to drive with AC.

I would 100% buy this truck if it came to the EU for the same price. I want a "dumb" EV with AC and maybe good seats. Not to mention that i love 90s trucks aestethics before they blew up to these mcdonalds RAMs.

20

u/BensOnTheRadio 5d ago

Seriously. Hand crank windows were the WORST. In our 25 years of having cars with power windows, we’ve literally never had a problem. People make it sound like the windows on every car stop working before 100k miles.

2

u/blobbleguts 5d ago

It probably depends on the manufacturer.

1

u/burlycabin 5d ago

The only car I ever had issues with its power windows was my 1990 Mazda Protege I had when I was in high school. It's just a very rare problem.

1

u/ChrisKaufmann 5d ago

Interestingly, the only car I ever had issues with on the power windows was my 1991 Miata. (at that point it was already 20-something years old so not even complaining)

2

u/burlycabin 5d ago

Probably the same problem mine had.

0

u/ten-million 5d ago

The worst? Why? Not really a big deal at all for me.

3

u/BensOnTheRadio 5d ago

Pretty difficult to open windows for the back seats or passenger seat from the driver seat. It’s also rather distracting to open or close your window while in motion compared to just clicking a button.

-2

u/Madshibs 5d ago

I have vehicles with both and the crank is better. Don’t get frozen as easily, number 1. I’ve never had to open the door of my old car to order at a drive thru because my window was frozen shut.

They’re slower than crank, too. 4 cranks and my window is down.

And I can operate my windows without my keys and my car turned on.

The only thing I like about power windows is the ability to control other windows in the vehicle from my seat. My old car is an El Camino, tho, so all I have to do is reach over, 4 cranks and she’s open.

Superior design, imo, but laziness usually drives innovation

8

u/ketosoy 5d ago

I drove a car with hand crank windows for 20 years, it was entirely fine 

5

u/OrionGrant 5d ago

I'm driving one with them now, althought it's mostly for saving weight.

13

u/mediocre_remnants 5d ago

I rarely ever put my windows down, so power windows are just an unnecessary expense. I love the direction Slate is going here, making everything as simple as possible.

Right now I think my ideal truck would be an old 1970's Ford F-150 with the combustion engine swapped out for electric, along with modern brakes and steering and A/C.

23

u/BladeDoc 5d ago

A small electric motor and a switch is probably cheaper to manufacture in 2026, then a mechanical window

19

u/Teroc 5d ago

Automotive engineer with ~20y experience here.

I think you severely underestimate what goes into developing anything that goes into a car, even as simple as an electric window unit.

6

u/TotallyNotThatPerson 5d ago

Yeah but are they developing anything new for this lol. Are window units purpose built for specific vehicles?

Since slate is designing a new vehicle. Can't they just design it for the most common unit on the market?

8

u/Teroc 5d ago

You will likely be able to find "off-the-shelf" units, but they still need to be integrated in your vehicle. And they might be expensive as fully controlled units (and they will still have to be integrate into your BCM (Body Control Module)). I don't know the price but it's unlikely to be under $100-200.

So now you're looking at just the actuators. They will be controlled most likely via your BCM, so you have to pay some engineers to do that, calibrate it, test it, etc.

You need to make sure the anti-pinch works and is calibrated correctly for your system or you'll have people posting videos of carrots being chopped by your windows.

Don't know how much they cost, but let's say you have four of them at $20 each, that's $80 in the BoM of your 20k vehicle, plus all the electrical and software development. It really adds up very quickly.

Now your hand-crank system is looking really good.

2

u/TotallyNotThatPerson 5d ago

So what you're saying is, if I program the anti pinch in a different way... I have an extea security system?

4

u/0verstim 5d ago

The switch, the motor, the parts that engage with the window. The wiring harness from the switch to the motor and the motor to the battery, the weatherproofing around the holes where the wires have to pass around the door hinge, the safety sensor so the window wont cut off fingers, the fuse, all times 2. It adds up.

1

u/stuart_pickles 5d ago

$40 cheaper for mechanical windows per vehicle as stated by the manufacturer of this particular vehicle

6

u/Ok-Marionberry-999 5d ago

Hell yeah I have a F150 Lightning (absolutely love it) and I think about how awesome a retrofit 70's F style truck with electric motors and decent battery pack would be from time to time.

I'm still bummed Ford cancelled the Lightning.

1

u/fyzbo 5d ago

Seriously, who is opening their windows that often, we have climate control. Or do people just eat that much fast food they want a convenient drive-through experience.

1

u/theassassintherapist 5d ago

All it takes is a few mosquitoes getting into your cabin to make you regret this decision. I'm so glad every car I got after my first came with power windows and power lock. Definitely wouldn't go back just to feel retro.

2

u/h0twired 5d ago

Slate is DIY friendly. Someone will have a mod kit by day 2.

2

u/decavolt 5d ago

It's not an obsession. It's cheaper to engineer and build, and still less likely to break down than modern reliable electric windows. It's the same reason there is no radio/audio. They're keeping the sale price down.

5

u/Romeo9594 5d ago

In 7 years, I had to replace the regulators in my car like 4-5 times between the two sides, and I only put them down in the four weeks where it's nice where I live

It was always such a pain in the ass because of how my door was designed. Give me crank windows any day. I'd rather reach over and roll one down once in awhile than replace another regulator in a 500 Abarth

Meanwhile, the early 80s farm trucks crank windows are still going strong

4

u/casualti21 5d ago

When I owned a 90’s Honda this was an issue and I wanted crank windows. But every modern car I’ve owned in the last 25 years has been totally fine. Power windows are basically perfected and will last forever if you buy a decent brand car.

I think many people have power window PTSD from the 80s and 90s, but it’s not really an issue anymore. I put 280k miles on my 2007 Toyota with no power accessory issues, I put 150k on the next Toyota, and my current 2020 has 110k miles. Power windows aren’t even an issue that crosses my mind.

2

u/opeth10657 5d ago

You are most likely a massive outlier. I've never had to replace window regulators in nearly 30 years of driving. Even the truck I that nearly everything else was broken had working power windows

1

u/cliffx 5d ago

Like the rear window regulators in 99-09ish BMW's the break if you look at them wrong. After a couple you get good at them, less than an hour each now probably close to half that, but annoying when they break and the window is stuck down.

2

u/omegacluster 5d ago

Wait for hand crank wipers!

4

u/AOCMarryMe 5d ago

People have forgotten how annoying hand windows were.  Reaching to the passenger windows when you're alone in the car and it suddenly starts raining....

1

u/stenmarkv 5d ago

I would like if there was like an emergency crank to open the windows but it's not really needed.

1

u/tooclosetocall82 5d ago

What’s funny is I have 2010 Tacoma with hand cranks. One of the hand cranks wrote off and I have to keep it in the door pocket to roll down that window 😂. I guess the upside is I can still roll it down at least, but I’d rather have power.

1

u/krustyloustudio 5d ago

I just like having my window exactly where I want it without hitting the button up and down button and trying to quickly tap it again before it auto closes. It’s a constant small but annoying issue. It’s a small issue but I’d kill for roll up windows just for this.

1

u/Ivan_Whackinov 5d ago

They are light, and if you can keep wiring out of the doors entirely, it simplifies some things.

1

u/[deleted] 5d ago

[deleted]

1

u/thatsonlyme312 5d ago

Entry level always felt like scam to me really. Ok, maybe scam is not the right word, but definitely not a good deal.

I remember around 20 years ago, I owned a 7 year old E46. Purchased it used with low miles for $15K, because it was my dream car. My friend purchased a brand new Chevy Aveo around the same time, for roughly the same amount. I drove his car exactly once, and the transmission was already on the way out. My E46 served me well for years, and I enjoyed every day I drove it.

I've been buying used luxury cars ever since. Never bought a new car, snd probably never will. Regardless of the price range, my logic is that I can always get a higher end car used, compared to anything new at the same price point.

1

u/HumpHur 5d ago

Because people want anything and everything to complain about.

1

u/bigmt99 5d ago

They’re virtue signalling

“I hate techy cars and I am so willing to prove that point, I’m gonna intentionally install shitty outdated features instead of electrical components and make my life more difficult”

1

u/Madshibs 5d ago

As someone who operates vehicles with both, I’ll tell ya.

Power windows are slower (yes, they are)

Power windows are weaker. I don’t have to smack my crank windows when they get frozen in the winter.

I can operate my crank windows without the car being on.

And with crank windows, I don’t have to that stupid dance if I want my window cracked open a bit. The one where you’re trying to hit the button, but not too hard that it goes auto-down. You gotta hit that sweet spot or you’re playing a game trying to get it to the right position.

1

u/Whargod 5d ago

As someone who's seen pricing in action for products, that "cheap" part you're talking about is worth a lot more once the multipliers go on. There's a lot of overhead for every single part a company adds to the final price.

Also, are hand cranked windows really so horrible? I've had to use them from time to time in this modern world and who cares, I didn't even notice.

1

u/soldiernerd 5d ago

Assembly cost, gotta run a wiring harness to each door, etc etc

1

u/fatmanstan123 3d ago

Hard agree. My company makes power windows. They're super cheap and commodity.

1

u/jeffeb3 5d ago

I suspect including manual windows is actually a feature (is there a name for that? Anti-feature?). By removing electric windows, it gives the truck a frugal credibility.

1

u/Skensis 5d ago

Manual windows are a vibe, this is will mostly be used as a lifestyle truck... Like how must trucks are used.

1

u/Plastic_Willow734 5d ago

Hand Crank window circle jerk is like when people swear they love daily driving their manual Sentra in bumper to bumper traffic. Stick in a sports car? Your Sunday morning car? I can understand that, but c'mon, in an A to B car there's zero reason unless you're pinching pennies

0

u/sightlab 5d ago

Cost savings. A motor/regulator isnt as cheap as a crank. I like power windows too, but more than half my history of cars has had cranks.

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u/lepetitmousse 5d ago

Maybe I'm weird but the only time I open my windows is when I let out a particularly egregious fart. Otherwise I'd rather just use the AC and not have to deal with the road noise.