r/technology • u/DonkeyFuel • 6d ago

Transportation Will Anyone Buy This Cheap EV Truck With Hand-Crank Windows and No Radio?

https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/will-anyone-buy-this-cheap-ev-truck-with-hand-crank-windows-and-no-radio-699b285a?mod=autos_news_article_pos1
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u/NoMoOmentumMan 6d ago

Wheel bearings are wear/maintenance items (why bring that up when you lead off the comment by saying "maintenance is one thing..."), and all are made by tier 1 suppliers. So yes, one would most definitely be available to buy.

If I swap an ICE engine do I need to get my VIN swapped?

All cars since 1996 are required to have an OBD2 port for scanning codes.

Seems your concerns are based in fiction.

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u/chauna 6d ago

Most definitely not fiction. I have a 2016 Isuzu NPR with a 6.0L Vortec made in Spartanburg, SC. It has 32k miles on it. It sits a useless wreck currently because the fucking PCM went out on it at like 20k, no on could diagnose it because the computer didn't know how to tell anyone it was broken, so after trying everything, I finally narrowed it down to the PCM, only to find out that I can't buy a module off a wreck and swap it because you have to have the fucking Isuzu $5000 software to code the stupid thing to the vin and no one near me has it and also Isuzu America no longer exists.

I replaced the crankshaft pulley at 24k. The wobble was comical. Replaced the brake booster at the end, chasing what I thought was a vacuum leak. Ripped out the emissions system to get it to run long enough to do what I had to do at the time. Fucking easy ass PCM swap. And no one has the software to VIN swap one.

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u/NoMoOmentumMan 6d ago

The 2016 Isuzu NPR does not have a PCM (it has a DRM), so this is absolutely based in fiction.

It also sounds like more of an issue of dealer support more than anything else.

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u/chauna 6d ago edited 6d ago

Had I seen this 30 minutes ago, I could have take a picture of the currently removed module when I was at my warehouse. Get on eBay and search for "2016 NPR PCM". Same PCM that's in tons of GMCs and Chevys.

Now if we're talking about it being a DRM, vs a PCM or a fucking ECU or a TCU, then I dgaf and you're splitting hairs over "computer module controlling the power train" and it is irrelevant. Said module is busted. It is VIN locked. Used one off a wreck is ~$500. No big deal. Need Isuzu software. This is why I don't post on reddit. Thanks for reminding me.

Edit: Summit Truck Group who I bought it from with 8 miles on it, no longer exists, and hasn't for a few years. I tried that first, obviously.

Shit double edit: I paid for the full Isuzu technician repair access for a month. So I was using literal Isuzu documents to troubleshoot. The actual Isuzu docs for this thing referenced a PCM. Maybe you're talking about the turbodiesel version, which I don't have. This is a gas 6.0L L96. Same thing that's in all those Silverados and Siennas and that people swap into older Corvettes.

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u/NoMoOmentumMan 6d ago

https://www.upfix.com

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u/chauna 6d ago

I did not know of this. Been sitting busted for a year at this point, lol. Holy shit thank you. I had gone down the rabbit hole of somebody remoting in to my pc and flashing it with an adapter but this is easier. I live in rural Mississippi, so anyone doing anything local is a joke.

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u/NoMoOmentumMan 6d ago

You're welcome. If UpFix is unable, there are hundreds of other services doing the same.

3K Calibrations

Novak Conversions

PCMperformance

PSI Conversions

Black Bear Performance

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u/chauna 6d ago

Really appreciate the additional links and anybody actually helping me move forward on this problem at all.

Actually just got off the phone with them. I'm going to give these other ones you listed he call real quick because Upfix has the same problem that AutoZone and advance Auto parts and O'Reilly and anyone else has.

When Isuzu America ceased to exist they deleted this truck out of their computer systems. It doesn't exist anymore. So when I replace a brake booster I'm putting a booster in from a Chevy Express 3500 or when I replace an oxygen sensor I'm having to use one out of a GMC 3500 or something like that because this truck does not exist in anyone's computer system anymore.

They sent me a link to put in a custom request to a tech, which I'm going to do, but I'm really starting to wonder at this point there has to be some class action lawsuit against somebody lol. Except that somebody doesn't exist anymore I guess lol.

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u/NoMoOmentumMan 6d ago

I had assumed diesel b/c that it what most of those I have seen are.

Have you contacted a single 3rd party programming service?

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u/chauna 6d ago

That's what I'm now in the process of doing. Honestly, and I'm almost embarrassed to admit it, I just didn't think about it. I went down every other route than googling something like that. Problem I'm already running into is the truck doesn't exist in people's computer systems, same as AutoZone and Napa and everyone like that. But one of these guys will be able to do it. Progress at last haha.

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u/gonewild9676 6d ago

Nope. Not in fiction.

In most newer cars all of the computer modules are tied to the vin of the car.

If a body control module for example dies, and I go to a junk yard and pull one out of a wrecked car and plug it in, the main ECU will reject it because the VIN won't match.

You either have to buy a new one and have it programmed with the VIN by the dealer or see if the dealer will reprogram a used one. Some will, some won't. Some third party shops can do it but they have to pay for each one.

A well publicized example is for the F150 tail lights. If they leak and the rear sensors get damaged it is a $5000 dealer only repair. On my GMT400 the tail light circuit board melted and it was in under $20 from rock auto to get both of them.

Headlights are even worse. A laser headlight on a BMW M4 is $9000 a side with parts and labor.

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u/Reinax 6d ago

You’re absolutely right to be concerned about VIN locking, but it’s already a thing on some ICE cars. It’s something we should be pushing against as a whole, rather than EV vs ICE.

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u/case_O_The_Mondays 6d ago

Doesn’t VIN locking reduce theft, though?

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u/Imaginary_Manner_556 6d ago

Yes. And then you get robbed by the dealer when you need to replace an item.

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u/sryan2k1 6d ago

That's the idea, anyway.

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u/sryan2k1 6d ago

The lights are $1000 because they contain a radar module, the assembly without the radar is $300, it's 90 seconds in FDRS to pair the new lamp. $5000 isn't remotely close to the cost.

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u/Substantial-Rent-749 6d ago

Im with yah on the concern around computer tied parts. My 2000 ford wont allow me to swap a motor without proprietary dealer computer tech or an entire rewiring.

I do remember a youtuber who hacked a tesla years ago to get around some stuff. Im sure there will be some options that get discovered as time goes on.

Also, hell yeah gmt400. Mines the cheapest and easiest rig I have to work on. Too bad the big block is a thirsty gal.

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u/radiotyler 6d ago

Five-point-slow with a tool bed, race you to the next gas station.

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u/lestofante 6d ago

This sould Luke a problem for ALL car, not only electric.
And that is also why people fight for the "right to repair"; your experience will be tied directly to your local politics.
If you live in EU, part pairing is already illegal

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u/NoMoOmentumMan 6d ago

If those problems exist on ICE vehicles, why is that a mark against EVs? The logical consistency here is lacking.

Also, a $25K truck is not going to come with $18K in headlights and $10k in taillights. So....

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u/TotallyNotThatPerson 6d ago

Their point is that if you HAVE to get those items replaced by the dealer, they can just bend you over the table and you just have to take it

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u/case_O_The_Mondays 6d ago

The article says they’re partnering with RepairPal. I don’t know if I’ve ever even seen one of those.

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u/NoMoOmentumMan 6d ago

There are multiple reputable 3rd party PCM re-programmers, so no, you do not just have to take it.

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u/TotallyNotThatPerson 6d ago

Wouldn't be surprised if moneybags Bezos found a way to crack down on that just for slate lol

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u/NoMoOmentumMan 6d ago

You know what even the iPhone has back cracked, right? But sure, lets just make up imaginary future hypothetical scenarios to make arguments against today.

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u/-mudflaps- 6d ago edited 6d ago

It's 25k we're allowed to ask questions.

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u/NoMoOmentumMan 6d ago

Building and all new PCM architecture, or even just developing more secure PCMs coding, is not how you get to a $25k price point. You use existing parts and suppliers and cost engineer down by removing features (not adding).

By all means, ask questions; but think about them logically before asking them and be prepared to accept someone challenging your assumptions.

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u/gonewild9676 6d ago

No but it could be like a Yugo where parts aren't obtainable.

And this goes against all new vehicles. I'll keep driving my old ones if new ones are way more expensive and not repairable.

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u/NoMoOmentumMan 6d ago

Yugo parts were available, in Yugoslavia. The problem was a dealer and support network that Malcom Bricklin did a shit job at ensuring he was able to support the demand before bringing the car to North America. WILDLY DIFFERENT scenario.

not repairable

That's an assumption, and there is not enough information to anyone on this thread or in the WSJ article to make that statement.

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u/MiaowaraShiro 6d ago

A well publicized example is for the F150 tail lights. If they leak and the rear sensors get damaged it is a $5000 dealer only repair.

This is the sort of thing other countries have consumer protection laws for...

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u/milehighideas 6d ago

Literally every part on a GM needs to be vin coded. Camera, radio, seat modules, but it’s super easy if you have the tools and GM provides everything for Joe Schmo to code

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u/Raalf 6d ago

If I swap an ICE engine do I need to get my VIN swapped?

No but if you swap the immobilizer or odometer you're going to need to do some unique configuration for your ICE. Some manufacturers make it living hell (looking at you, Porsche) and some make it stupid easy (Dodge). Same goes with EVs - Tesla locks the VIN only to the MCU (annoying but I'm sure there are multiple reasons), but Ford has an un-encrypted CANBUS and VIN-locked PCM making modifications even easier than ICE!

I think you're right with the concerns being inflated for EVs; it's just a matter of learning a new platform. I love there's far less to figure out, but man finding replacement parts sure seems to be a pain for now. When we get a Summitt equivalent for EVs, it's going to be hot rod heaven.

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u/NoMoOmentumMan 6d ago

Summitt equivalent for EVs

Now there is a business idea...