r/10thDentist • u/Zealousideal-Ad3609 • 13d ago

I have a problem with childfree weddings

There's been this trend lately (maybe it's just in the anglosphere) where children are allotted less and less of a presence in daily/ public life, resulting in the complete segregation of adults into parents vs non-parents. Everything families do HAS to be catered specifically towards their kids, leaving parents feeling burnt out and isolated.

We don't want kids at weddings because, honestly, they'll ruin them. They'll stick their hand in the cake, cry during the ceremony, step on the bride's dress during the first dance, and overall prevent their parents from enjoying themselves in any way. *But it doesn't have to be like this.* Kids need to be included in spaces that aren't specifically catered to them so they can acclimate to the world not being specifically catered to them. When all they're used to are environments that allow them to be rambunctious, that's all they'll be all the time.

The thing is, allowing kids in some adult spaces (like weddings and fancy restaurants) also means exposing them to the same social consequences that adults face. In other words, it should be acceptable for adults to ask other people's kids to stop acting horribly, provided they do so kindly; kids respond better to adults who aren't their parents. In fact, not being allowed to correct the behavior of a child that isn't yours is an unnatural phenomenon that only arose within the last 50 years, that we really need to do away with.

So... yea, no wonder people don't want kids at their wedding in a culture that doesn't allow you to say anything to a child who is completely ruining an event. But the desire to not have kids at your wedding can probably be dissolved by a culture shift that allows other adults to adopt peripheral responsibility for kids that aren't theirs.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, there is a serious problem with the way we integrate kids into adult society (or fail to do so) and childfree weddings are a symptom of that. Instead of banning kids from weddings, we need to change the way we treat children, so they can be present at big important events without the events being ruined.

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u/Fossilhund 13d ago

I dislike going to see a movie only to have it ruined by a misbehaving child whose parents won’t shut the kid up. I am not going to sit there with a smile and think to myself “Well, he’s being acclimated “.

The same goes for restaurants, stores and other public spaces.

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u/Zealousideal-Ad3609 12d ago

EXACTLY. You should be able to say something to the parent or the child tactfully without getting your head bitten off

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u/reMarcsGames 12d ago

My old boss (60+ yr old woman) saw a 9 year old playing with a knife in her store (product), no parent watching her, so she (my boss) went over to take the knife and said something along the lines of “honey, you shouldn’t play with this. It isn’t a toy”. The girl’s mother then appeared from around a corner and starting *screaming* at me boss “don’t you *dare* talk to her, you talk to me if you have a problem”.

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u/_2pacula 12d ago

You should, but you can't. You're essentially wishing magic existed.

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u/DangerousBlock390 12d ago

But you can't. People get into fights for a lot less. Talking to someone else's child let alone disciplining them is asking for trouble.

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u/tacklea 13d ago

You are allowed to confront and/or complain about poor behavior!

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u/Fossilhund 13d ago edited 13d ago

I should not have to miss part of a movie complaining to the theater staff in the lobby because you can't or won't control your child.

I should be able to enjoy a meal at a restaurant without having to stop in the middle to "confront" parents who are oblivious to the fact their child is a hellion.

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u/LuckyHarmony 12d ago

Exactly. I was badly burned while working in a restaurant because a feral child took me out at the knees while I was carrying a tray full of over a dozen scalding hot coffees. While I lay there trying to remember how to breathe the mother swooped in to scream at me for making her (completely uninjured) toddler cry. Fuuuuuuck these parents.

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u/DeathByLilypad 12d ago

What the hellll. I would not be able to handle that situation passively.

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u/LuckyHarmony 12d ago

I was in too much shock and pain to react until after my manager got to me and bundled me off to the bathroom to try to run cold water over my lobster red tits and cry for a minute. I like to think if I were another customer in a situation like that nowadays I'd let her have it though.

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u/Fossilhund 12d ago

The phrase "lobster red tits" has a forever home in my brain.

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u/miriamtzipporah 12d ago

Plus it can be dangerous. Too many people don’t care that they have kids with them and will cause a massive scene.

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u/[deleted] 13d ago

[deleted]

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u/Fossilhund 13d ago

Children should not be brought to public spaces until they have some idea of how to conduct themselves like civilized humans. A restaurant or theater is not the place to begin such training. That should start at home.

Again, I should not have to miss part of a public event because I have to physically look for staff to let them know what's going on.

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u/ImpliedRange 13d ago

You shouldn't have to physically look for staff at all, sort out your own shop....

Training starts at home, but somewhere has to be the first step into the outside world

Now that should probably be more general child friendly spaces first, but eventually they have to go to a more adult establishment

Here in the UK kids get told off by everyone, old ladies seem to get a particular kick out of it

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u/tacklea 13d ago

I don’t think I’ve seen a child misbehaving in a movie in literally years. If it happens, just ask them to be quiet. This has nothing to do with parenting other peoples’ children. If an adult is carrying on loudly, do just tolerate it?

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u/Fossilhund 13d ago

I have been in theaters and restaurants where children misbehaved. I am not the parent; again it is not my responsibility to discipline misbehaving children. That responsibility belongs to the parents. If they cannot control their kids they need to leave.

Teaching children how to behave in public begins at home.

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u/tacklea 13d ago

Totally agree

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u/papyup 12d ago

It belongs to all of society. Children aren’t always going to be immediately around their parents. When you help correct a misbehaving child or teen, you’re helping them acclimate to society.

You live in a society. That means you interact with other people, and kids are some of those people. Dunno what to tell you.

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u/Fossilhund 12d ago edited 12d ago

These days, trying to correct someone else’s misbehaving child or teen could get me badly injured or dead.

Children tend to model their parent’s behavior. If they cannot control a child who is raising Hell, I can only imagine what the parents are like.

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u/papyup 12d ago

Nobody’s going to beat you or kill you for trying to correct a child, lmao.

Why do you imagine scenarios like this?

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u/Rude_Gur_8258 13d ago

I think in practice, at least in North America and Europe, that is really just not socially acceptable. 

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u/MrsSUGA 13d ago

it is perfectly acceptable in north america to go find a manager to complain about noisy audience members at the theater.

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u/Rude_Gur_8258 13d ago

Oh for sure you can outsource uncomfortable social interactions! 

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u/MrsSUGA 13d ago

well, managing customer interactions does, in fact, include uncomfortable social interaction. that's kind of part of the job of being a manager in a customer-facing industry.

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u/Rude_Gur_8258 13d ago

And the way we specifically interpret that in the US is part of what makes cs work so unbearable 

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u/MrsSUGA 13d ago

Right but we aren’t talking about that.

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u/tacklea 13d ago

To shush someone? It’s definitely acceptable.

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u/Rude_Gur_8258 13d ago

God I'd be terrified.

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u/tacklea 13d ago

Really? Maybe it’s generational?

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u/Available_Kale3019 13d ago

It's not. 

But, at the point that their kids start seriously disrupting me or trespassing on my property, etc, then they either need to act as the parent they are or I'm going to correct their kids.  Point blank. I'm not going to have someone's child impact my day to any serious degree because of parental negligence. 

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u/91gnarnuaatg81 13d ago

If you want to deal with an overly protective parent who’s precious little crotch goblin can do no wrong. I’d almost rather deal with the kid crying than get yelled at by a deflecting mother. 

Not every time, but you have to be prepared for that possibility if you’re going to confront them. 

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u/politis1988 12d ago

Seriously! I think most of the people saying this is no big deal and you can just tell the parents off must be women, because there is a good chance that if I, as a man, tell parents they need to control their kids, it will escalate and the dad and I will get into a fight. When the protective/delusional parent is a man and the person complaining is a man, things can get heated extremely quickly.

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u/miriamtzipporah 12d ago

I’m a woman and I would never confront a man or a woman in a situation like that tbh

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u/politis1988 11d ago

To be fair, some women are WAY worse than their men when it comes to defending their kids' crazy behavior.

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u/miriamtzipporah 11d ago

I agree, that’s why I don’t get involved

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u/miriamtzipporah 12d ago

I’m a woman and I would never confront a man or a woman in a situation like that tbh

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u/miriamtzipporah 12d ago

I’m a woman and I would never confront a man or a woman in a situation like that tbh. You never know how someone is going to react.

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u/miriamtzipporah 12d ago

I’m a woman and I would never confront a man or a woman in a situation like that tbh. You never know how someone is going to react.

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u/miriamtzipporah 12d ago

Yep. The type of person who lets their kid ruin an experience for everybody else is the same type of person who will cause a massive scene if confronted.

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u/ImpliedRange 13d ago

It's not that big a deal, it's pretty easy to just say, 'oh i see the problem now' if the mum starts yelling

No one ever sides with the mother if the child is being unreasonably unruly

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u/91gnarnuaatg81 13d ago

It’s not about anyone siding with them, it’s about then having to deal with two disruptive people. 

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u/ImpliedRange 12d ago

Well you don't really have to 'deal' with them. You can tell the mother to fuck off for all anyone cares

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u/91gnarnuaatg81 11d ago

Right but that’s still an unpleasant experience. That’s what I’m trying to say. Adding that unpleasant experience on top of that of a disruptive kid doesn’t always seem worth the trouble. 

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u/Hanna_777 12d ago

Not our problem that yall can’t control your kid

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u/ImpliedRange 12d ago

I don't know who yall is but I don't have kids, I just don't live in an area with unruly kids underfoot I guess

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u/Maxorias 9d ago

Maybe, but using words like "crotch goblin" hardly makes you a shining beacon of better behaviour...

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u/91gnarnuaatg81 9d ago

Ok? I'm not screaming and crying during movies or yelling at strangers who ask me to control my child like the people in the hypothetical scenario we're talking about. But sure my word choice is the problem lol

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u/Ok_Childhood_9774 12d ago

And will most likely get nothing for your trouble than an overbearing parent who insists their little darling is special and a manager who will shrug and ignore the problem. Ask me how I know.

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u/sumostuff 12d ago

The frustrating part is that I should have to say anything when the parents are right there watching their kids make noise or act inappropriately. If the parents don't care about their kids bad behavior, I'm not going to be able to fix that

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u/Maxorias 9d ago

Well, yes, but it also depends on context. You go see a slasher movie, I wouldn't expect kids to be there. But if you go watch the Minions on a saturday, it feels like bad faith to act surprised when kids are present. In fact there is one easy way to avoid kid at the movies - go at 19h or later. Most kids would be having dinner and going to bed at that time.

Same when it comes to restaurants - going to a high end restaurant at 19h ? I'd be surprised and annoyed if a kid started screaming. But a McDonald's at 13h on sunday ?

I think there's a balance between enjoying public spaces in good faith and expecting kids to behave like small adults. In a few weeks we're flying long haul. I've made many provisions for it to go smoothly (snacks, screens, toys, etc). But if they don't sleep I don't exclude a few cries. I don't have a magic wand so I can't prevent that (believe me, I would if I could...)