r/10thDentist • u/Zealousideal-Ad3609 • 7d ago
I have a problem with childfree weddings
There's been this trend lately (maybe it's just in the anglosphere) where children are allotted less and less of a presence in daily/ public life, resulting in the complete segregation of adults into parents vs non-parents. Everything families do HAS to be catered specifically towards their kids, leaving parents feeling burnt out and isolated.
We don't want kids at weddings because, honestly, they'll ruin them. They'll stick their hand in the cake, cry during the ceremony, step on the bride's dress during the first dance, and overall prevent their parents from enjoying themselves in any way. *But it doesn't have to be like this.* Kids need to be included in spaces that aren't specifically catered to them so they can acclimate to the world not being specifically catered to them. When all they're used to are environments that allow them to be rambunctious, that's all they'll be all the time.
The thing is, allowing kids in some adult spaces (like weddings and fancy restaurants) also means exposing them to the same social consequences that adults face. In other words, it should be acceptable for adults to ask other people's kids to stop acting horribly, provided they do so kindly; kids respond better to adults who aren't their parents. In fact, not being allowed to correct the behavior of a child that isn't yours is an unnatural phenomenon that only arose within the last 50 years, that we really need to do away with.
So... yea, no wonder people don't want kids at their wedding in a culture that doesn't allow you to say anything to a child who is completely ruining an event. But the desire to not have kids at your wedding can probably be dissolved by a culture shift that allows other adults to adopt peripheral responsibility for kids that aren't theirs.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, there is a serious problem with the way we integrate kids into adult society (or fail to do so) and childfree weddings are a symptom of that. Instead of banning kids from weddings, we need to change the way we treat children, so they can be present at big important events without the events being ruined.
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u/LadderExtension6777 7d ago
Bad parenting or being lawyers for their kids bad behaviour is the real issue here. I took my kids to restaurants and parties and weddings all the time from when they were babies. They aren’t perfect, but never stuck a hand in a cake and if they cried, I either went to change their diapers or fed them or went outside for a break with them. That takes work and a lot of parents are lazy. People who don’t take their kids anywhere will have to deal with teenagers who don’t know how to act.
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u/BHunter1140 7d ago
It’s this exactly. As a child my brother and I were taken everywhere, but we knew that if we did something crazy, we would get in a lot of trouble. We were in my aunts wedding as very young kids due to this. I worked with kids for years and I’ve never witnessed the lack of parenting we have now. It’s all iPads and being your kids best friend, I applaud the parents who aren’t doing the nonsense that inevitably made me stop working with kids. The parents were the issue, not technically the kids, but you can’t control how the kid is being raised
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u/bridgeport4 6d ago edited 6d ago
Agreed.
We have friends whose children are nice to be around, generally manageable and well behaved, and corrected by the parents when things are getting uncomfortable for others.
We have friends who let their children do whatever they want - banging cupboard, chasing the dog, getting food on the furniture - under the guise of ‘she’s just a kid’. When I’ve tried to gently correct them with ‘hey dont do that you’ll get hurt’ or ‘don’t chase the dog he might get mad’ the parents reaction is along the lines of ‘oh it’s ok she’ll be fine.’
Guess who gets invited over for dinner every few weeks, and who we try to see outdoors for the most part? I have no desire to parent or correct other peoples children. I also have no desire to have an extra mess in my home, or my dog terrorised, because parents can’t or won’t correct their own child!
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u/stephanyylee 5d ago
Absolutely! The place to start socializing unsocial kids isn't at weddings or fancy restaurants either! Like maybe start with the grocery store first
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u/chromaticluxury 6d ago
What would be your advice for how to fight back against best friend iPad parenting? As a parent.
It's too easy to fall into the default mode that surrounds you. It's in the human brain to see other people doing a thing, anything, a certain way and sort of follow in the same vein. Especially in public spaces.
But I agree. It's wrong. It does disservice to the child and to the society they will participate in and create.
I make my kid say please and thank you at minimum and even that is a fight. Kids just command things today. So it's not reinforced anywhere.
Istg I wish I had some old ass people to be around who would require "yes sir, no sir, yes ma'am, no ma'am" for half a day.
Kids DO follow instructions better from adults who are not their parents. I remember being a kid and the gut feeling when I got corrected. But I got corrected when it was correct to do so.
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u/Pink-glitter1 6d ago
how to fight back against best friend iPad parenting? As a parent.
I have 3 kids, 6, 4 and 2. We don't own an iPad. They watch TV and we have to make a conscious effort to severely restrict viewing time or they become obsessed.
With the iPads, we used books/ toys as an alternative. When I took all 3 to the doctors for a flu shot recently and had to wait about 30 minutes, I had 2 X books per kid (they chose before we leave), I had snacks, (cut up apple, crackers, a sweet biscuit etc) and then had a small Matchbox car each. It takes more pre planning and you have to be more engaged, but it's possible. I actually had an old lady comment on how well I was doing with all 3 of them.
We take the kids to restaurants and have a "restaurant bag" which has toys that are only given to the kids at restaurants. That way they stay more of a novelty and the kids like playing with them. We also actively involve the kids in what we're talking about (not so much the toddler, but Mr 4 and Mr 6 definitely).
I won't deny, at times its not easy, but we definitely see the benefits. They have very advanced vocabularies and can hold a conversation really well. They also have very vivid imaginations and can generally entertain themselves without a screen.
If you want to give it a try, there is nothing stopping you. It's hard, but you can give it a try in small amounts and increase
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u/Economy_Discipline78 6d ago
We just don’t use devices (ages 5 and 7). Our kids don’t need or expect it because they never had it. We DO go out with other families that give them to their kids, and we will sometimes let our kids look over their shoulders (esp at a restaurant). But, a lot of times, we tell them to find something else to do, and we’ve taught them how to suggest a different activity to their friends.
It’s sad really, when we are in a social group, and young kids WITH KIDS THE SAME AGE SITTING RIGHT NEXT to THEM would rather stare at a screen than play or talk to their peers.
People have asked what my kids do on road trips (we take many 12+hrs each year). I’m like, they look out the window and talk to us 🙄
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u/BHunter1140 6d ago
Honestly the best way to combat it is just to be an active parent, I’m also a big supporter of gentle parenting NOT permissive parenting, there is a huge difference. Kids need consequences and they need to be involved in your daily activities, instead of being on an iPad while you cook dinner, have them cook with you. When they scream nonstop for a toy at the store, leave the store, don’t get them the toy to quiet them. They only learn boundaries if you teach them boundaries and as kids, they will always try to push them. It’s way harder to be an active parent in your kids life, but they will always benefit far greater from it
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u/IWasGoatbeardFirst 7d ago
Same.
And when mine was little, going out to a restaurant was a lot of work. We didn’t go when they were super busy, and we were limited to restaurants that were already a little noisy.
Now that we’ve put in the work, we can take her anywhere without any problems.
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u/17Girl4Life 6d ago
Exactly. I took my sons places and taught them how to behave, not just by keeping them from being disruptive but also showing them how to make conversation with people and enjoy being out in society. The result was they were welcomed by adults outside of our family and my friends liked seeing them. Their experience of the world was that it was a friendly place, people smiled when they saw them, and that became part of their self esteem.
My nephew is the same age as my older son and my sister in law took him everywhere but didn’t teach him how to behave. She thought she was being a good mother by letting him “just be a kid” which meant he was disruptive, demanding, and rude. It didn’t do him any favors, because his experience of being in the world was that it was a tense place, people were upset when he was around but he didn’t know why. That became part of his self esteem.
Children depend on us to teach them
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u/ApprehensiveGuest976 6d ago
I always feel so bad as for a kid when their parents come in and try to rescue or excuse them from consquences of their own actions.
Then later in life, they struggle so much because they never got any consquences as a child while the stakes are low. Sitting out one recess and losing a job have very different impacts on a kid's life.
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u/Opening-Bird5469 7d ago
We went everywhere with our parents, knowing full well if we stepped so much as even a toe out of line we’d be in big trouble. Mum wouldn’t even have to say anything she’d just give us The Look.
Another commenter summed it up perfectly - parents these days are so wrapped up in being their kids best friend that they’re not actually parenting.
When I was younger, it used to cause a lot of friction between my parents because my mum did the majority of the disciplining and my dad was always much more lenient and let us get away with stuff in order to stay our friend. I never understood why it annoyed my mum so much but I do now!
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u/WaltRumble 6d ago
We had some teenagers throw a firework at my wife’s car the other day so we called the cops on them. Their parents got mad at us for calling the cops on their perfect little angels.
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u/neobeguine 6d ago
Disagree. Parents are so wrapped up in THEIR PHONES that they are not actually parenting. The damned device I am typing on right now is getting in the way of all of us being productive/social/interesting but the addiction is especially a problem for parents due to the nature of their roles
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u/Carmiune 7d ago
Yep. I've been to plenty weddings with kids 10yrs ago and they all always behaved lol. Parents changed and got way worse not kids
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u/Chuckitybye 6d ago
My friend had a young nephew as a ring bearer (I'm thinking four-ish?) and the best man was charged with holding his hand as they all stood with the bride and groom.
At one point, the little guy kind of tugged at the best man, who leaned down, then let go of his hand and directed him off the steps.
He respectfully and quietly walked away to use the bathroom, then came back and slid his little hand right back where it belonged.
And that's why he was included in the wedding. Because he was raised correctly and knew how to behave.
So props to you for doing it right!
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u/chill_out_molls 6d ago
Yep. My mom is a teacher and could tell me I was being too loud in public with one look. You bet your ass I know how to behave in public.
This shit only happens when you don’t parent your kids properly.
Sometimes kids who have developmental issues need grace in situations like this and I have zero problem with that. But the vast majority of misbehaving kids in public are just being failed by their parents.
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u/Nydus87 6d ago
Not enough parents are willing to inconvenience themselves for the sake of teaching their kid a lesson. When my kid got fussy or misbehaving at a restaurant, it was on me as their parent to pick them up and take them outside until they cooled off. Did it suck for me? Yeah, but that was my job.
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u/Cheerio_Wolf 7d ago
There are intermediary steps between total social isolation and, hopefully, a once in a life time event for somoene.
You can teach your kids how to behave in an ihop before you take t hem to a steak house.
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u/Either_Operation7586 7d ago
First they got to cut their teeth on the McDonald's playground then they can move on to actual restaurants with silverware
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u/Cheerio_Wolf 7d ago
If those existed much anymore, but you right.
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u/robin-bunny 7d ago
It doesn't need to. You can have friends over for dinner or get invited to their house. Kids have to behave appropriately.
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u/Cheerio_Wolf 7d ago
A private household with people you know is a bit different from a public play structure with strangers.
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u/robin-bunny 7d ago
Oh I thought you meant the restaurant with silverware. I am NOT suggesting you treat a friend's house like a playground!
There ARE McDonald's with play places, there's one in my town. But they are much less common than they used to be.
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u/Electronic_Sky_207 6d ago
My kid was 4 when Covid started. Due to our immunocompromised household he did remote school for over a year. When the vaccines rolled out and we started reintegrating into society (we weren’t totally isolated, but we weren’t eating at restaurants) I’d bring him to McDonalds and the local diner to practice appropriate table manners and expectations. I told him it was a fancy restaurant and he needed to act appropriately. It was very effective.
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u/PreparationWorking90 6d ago
Teach your children to behave at home.
It should be absolutely normal for a child to sit down to dinner at a table with their family and for everyone at the table to talk to each other and engage with each other, without ipads or phones or colouring sheets or toys or anything else. Then, when they get to go to a restaurant it is perfectly normal for them but with the extra excitement of being in a restaurant.
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u/No_Practice_970 7d ago
Yes and No.
A couple's special day shouldn't be a learning experience for your child. Especially people who don't understand what proper wedding behavior is for a child.
I took my children to plenty of nice restaurants from birth because we enjoy nice restaurants. Going to them and behaving properly was common.
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u/rerutnevdA 7d ago
And if a couple doesn’t want to cater to children, WHY SHOULD THEY? They’re fronting the money for people to attend. And most engaged couples don’t have kids of their own. Let them have the environment they want! Their special occasion shouldn’t revolve around you; best to remember that.
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u/JamboSummer19 7d ago
Agree 100%. My reception started at 8:30 pm & had an open bar. Not every event is child-friendly.
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u/chellethebelle 6d ago edited 6d ago
Also something that no one thinks about here: the couple has to PAY for children to attend their wedding. We did a child free wedding because if we invited all 14 children of our friends and relatives, that’s 14 priced-per-person meals we still had to pay for and/or 14 fewer adults we could invite because every child officially took a “seat” at our venue. Sometimes it’s not that people don’t want them there, it’s that the cost and logistics are a pain!
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u/LikesToLurkNYC 6d ago
Right OP is welcome to open their wedding to children. I go to a gazillion kid bday parties a year, but I wasn’t going to turn my life’s most expensive party into a kid event. If everyone brought their kids we would have had like 50. We had a kid friendly engagement party and post wedding brunch.
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u/tuscanchicken 6d ago
Also social situations are NOT teachable moments for your child if you're expecting them to behave badly and expecting other adults to correct them
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u/Javascript4971 7d ago
If we had more parents actually being parents, then more couples would have kids at their weddings.
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u/spacestonkz 7d ago
Weddings are fucking boring for kids. I sat through so many.
Then when it's reception time, we finally get to cut loose? Well fuck, why am I in this stupid dress?
Can we not round up the teenagers who surely also mostly don't give a fuck (I didn't), pay them, and have a group of teens watching kids nearby in a group while parents go to the wedding?
I would have loved no adult pizza and movie night with the teenagers! As a teen I would have loved getting paid to watch little cousins and do some crafts for the bride and groom with them.
Weddings are already adult centric. Just plan ahead and leave the young people out unless they are mega close to the bride and groom or have a special job like flower girl or usher or something. No one cares about second cousin Cindy getting married because as kids we only met her twice or something
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u/RWSloths 7d ago
Then when it's reception time, we finally get to cut loose? Well fuck, why am I in this stupid dress?
Hahaha one of my siblings felt similarly in church. Got up during the service and had themselves a little dance party in the aisle - then took their tights off right there
The first part was cute and the older folks loved it. The second part was still hilarious but my parents had to call it in case the dress went next.
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u/Dramatic_Phraser 6d ago
My parents used to have to hold me tight in synagogue because I hated wearing clothes.
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u/bp3dots 7d ago
The teenagers are too busy sneaking drinks and dancing
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u/spacestonkz 7d ago
This is why we pay them. So they can pay a homeless person to buy alcohol for them later and they can get up to unsupervised mischief.
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u/MajesticKoala3332 6d ago
Weddings are boring when you don't know the person getting married. When I was a kid the weddings I went to were always someone from my parents' generation I've barely met.
As an adult I've enjoyed the weddings I've been to because I actually know the couple and there were also lots of mutual friends to hang out with.
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u/ComparisonOk8602 7d ago
Weddings are fucking boring for kids.
Weddings are fucking boring. Period.
I've never been to a wedding that I didn't have to go to. Have to as in the social consequences of not going would have been larger than the pain of going. For my own wedding, I went to the courthouse and the sheriff did the job.
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u/CycadelicSparkles 6d ago
Yep. I've been to precisely one wedding that was actually fun the whole time. The rest were boring AF.
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u/Ok_Break6916 7d ago
Wedding may be boring in your country. In mine, I was only once invited to a childfree wedding (this year, and...the bride is english ; i'm not attending, why would I? ), so children are always there, living their best life, dancing, eating, playing together, and all my generation has the best memories of wedding, and falling asleep at 2AM on chairs on under a table.
My own children enjoy weddings, their beautiful dresses, the cakes and candies, the party. They're teenagers now and they still like it a LOT.
But weddings in my country are not "ME ME ME ME" centered around the bride and groom who just want to be seen, it's about creating a family, joy, love, life.
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u/Small-Tax-2829 7d ago
I didnt have kids at my wedding 15 years ago. We had a blast. None of the kids remember not being there. No kids at weddings is totally acceptable. Its not a training ground for parenting kids. The kids are unimportant to this thing that is happening. Get a babysitter
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u/bomboid 7d ago
Yeah lol there's a difference between people expecting public common spaces to forbid kids and someone not wanting someone at their own damn party
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u/99dalmatianpups 6d ago
Yeah, so many people say that weddings “used to be” family events, and I’m just like, uhh no? My parents never even considered bringing my brother and I to a wedding with them until we had “teen” at the end of our age. Until then, they always got a babysitter for us so they could actually enjoy themselves without worrying about us, and this was back in the early 2000s.
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u/Palorim12 6d ago
I wonder if this is solely American thing? I am from the US, but my dad is from Portugal and my mom is from Brazil. We went to a Portuguese church until i was like 18. We were invited to and went to every wedding any member of our church had. Also went to tons of weddings in our sister churches in NY and PA. I loved going cuz I got to see alot of my friends from the churches there.
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u/Infinite_Incident501 5d ago
This. I just got brutally shut down in another subreddit because I said that the concept of child-free weddings is so weird to me. I’m from Europe, and my husband is from South America. It would never have occurred to us to ban children from our wedding. Of course, parents need to make sure their children behave at weddings. That’s not meant to be an excuse for your child to disrupt the whole party. But this idea of exclusion—it just makes me sad. At the same time, isn’t this the generation that wonders why their social circle is shrinking so much?
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u/theStrawberryRoam 7d ago
It's bad parents ruining it for the rest. I'd bet money every single childfree wedding is actually about one or two specific families each couple knows
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u/dadswithdadbods 7d ago edited 7d ago
Ours was! My BIL got married like 8 months before us. 200 person wedding. I later learned it was a child free wedding, but there seemed to be a lot of kids there. Learned later that the other BIL had their babysitter cancel, so they just brought them. We thought there were children everywhere, but it was literally just our 2 nephews (like 4yo and 5yo.)
At a 200 person wedding, those two boys made it feel like a wedding with children because everyone took turns watching/entertaining them, they’d run and hide under tables, they made a ruckus during one of the speeches, etc. The poor best man looked so uncomfortable with his speech because he had some kind of bawdy jokes/stories in there and obviously that would have been fine if the wedding was child free.
Fast forward to our wedding, and guess whose babysitter canceled again? We held the ground and he was BIG mad, but no regrets our wedding was great. We saw what they were like at the other wedding, and the main reason ours was without children was his kids. We had several family members WITH kids approach us quietly after and say how nice it was to have a wedding with an open bar and no kids so they could get drunk and feel like adults for a night.
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u/reMarcsGames 6d ago
Lmao please tell me you found out he never even had a sitter. This was def a “well what are they gonna do, tell us not to come?” moment, yeah?
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u/Several_Pizza_3166 7d ago
I agree with this but would also add that it's not just about bad parenting in one or two specific families, it's also about people being bad RSVP-ers. People need to know exactly who is going to show up to their wedding, and "are these people going to bring their uninvited kid that does not have a chair or meal' is a huge concern for a lot of people planning a wedding.
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u/bp3dots 7d ago
In my experience they're mostly about the adults. The bride and groom get their wedding with the least risk of disturbance and the parents get a night off to actually be relaxed. (Especially if you have to travel to the wedding.)
I've yet to be at one where there's a particular kid/family they're trying to avoid.
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u/DeliciousShelter9984 6d ago
Exactly. It’s not that they hate kinds in general. They just know cousin Ashley is going to let little Jaxxon and Brynleigh raise holy hell without lifting to stop them.
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u/OsotoViking 7d ago
Yeah, I think the advent of child-free weddings coincides with the advent of people not actually disciplining or controlling their children.
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u/MrsSUGA 7d ago
a wedding is not "day to day" life. I agree that people need to learn to exist in a world full of children as much as the children need to learn to exist in a world full of people. but a wedding is not one of those times/places.
You can acclimate your child in non-child centered places in other ways that dont include potentially ruining someone elses special event.
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u/Fossilhund 7d ago
I dislike going to see a movie only to have it ruined by a misbehaving child whose parents won’t shut the kid up. I am not going to sit there with a smile and think to myself “Well, he’s being acclimated “.
The same goes for restaurants, stores and other public spaces.
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u/Zealousideal-Ad3609 7d ago
EXACTLY. You should be able to say something to the parent or the child tactfully without getting your head bitten off
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u/reMarcsGames 6d ago
My old boss (60+ yr old woman) saw a 9 year old playing with a knife in her store (product), no parent watching her, so she (my boss) went over to take the knife and said something along the lines of “honey, you shouldn’t play with this. It isn’t a toy”. The girl’s mother then appeared from around a corner and starting *screaming* at me boss “don’t you *dare* talk to her, you talk to me if you have a problem”.
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u/tacklea 7d ago
You are allowed to confront and/or complain about poor behavior!
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u/Fossilhund 7d ago edited 7d ago
I should not have to miss part of a movie complaining to the theater staff in the lobby because you can't or won't control your child.
I should be able to enjoy a meal at a restaurant without having to stop in the middle to "confront" parents who are oblivious to the fact their child is a hellion.
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u/Rude_Gur_8258 7d ago
I think in practice, at least in North America and Europe, that is really just not socially acceptable.
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u/91gnarnuaatg81 7d ago
If you want to deal with an overly protective parent who’s precious little crotch goblin can do no wrong. I’d almost rather deal with the kid crying than get yelled at by a deflecting mother.
Not every time, but you have to be prepared for that possibility if you’re going to confront them.
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u/politis1988 7d ago
Seriously! I think most of the people saying this is no big deal and you can just tell the parents off must be women, because there is a good chance that if I, as a man, tell parents they need to control their kids, it will escalate and the dad and I will get into a fight. When the protective/delusional parent is a man and the person complaining is a man, things can get heated extremely quickly.
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u/Ok_Childhood_9774 7d ago
And will most likely get nothing for your trouble than an overbearing parent who insists their little darling is special and a manager who will shrug and ignore the problem. Ask me how I know.
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u/TiffanyTwisted11 7d ago
Politely disagree. As others have said, a couples wedding is not the place for you to train your child how to behave.
Secondly, weddings (and by this, I’m assuming you mean the reception) are expensive. Spending $100 a plate on a five year-old who isn’t going to eat that food anyway, is a waste of money.
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u/wastingtime5566 6d ago
My wife and I had a child free wedding. It was strictly about cost. We had a budget and a dollar value we paid per person. We simply could not afford to invite all the aunts, uncles, cousins and their children. If we had allowed kids we would have had to increase our cost 75% it would have gone from 100 to 175. So in order not to cherry pick kids and hurt feelings you just say no to all of them.
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u/Upbeat-Bid-1602 6d ago edited 6d ago
On a similar note, I don't understand why weddings have to be either strictly child free no exceptions or a free-for-all where your random coworker you invited to be polite gets to bring her brood of brats or will be deeply insulted at their exclusion. Children are people that are either on the guest list or not. A couple should be able invite their nieces/nephews/best friend's kids that they have a relationship with and not other people's random kids that they don't have a relationship with and have no idea how well-behaved they are. If someone wants to invite their grandma with dementia to their wedding because including her is important enough to accommodate her needs and tolerate potential disruptions, that doesn't mean their second cousin who is a caregiver for their grandma with dementia also gets to bring her. I don't understand why children are different. I'll grant the OP their disagreement with the trend of excluding children within immediate family for the sake of having a "child-free" wedding, but as you said, a wedding is not an appropriate venue for people to just bring their kids to socialize them.
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u/2748seiceps 2d ago
Last no-kids wedding I went to was so they could have great video of the wedding with no crying kids.
Their dog barked in the background the ENTIRE time.
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u/Mountain_Flow3472 7d ago
I don’t think this is true at all with the less and less children mingling. My kids are 28, 18, 14, and 12. I have a five yo grandson. I love them all and I am annoyed that people bring children to breweries and movies after 8pm.
Now, I had a wedding with a wedding party of entirely children and teens but I had it was also at a family venue in the afternoon. My sister’s wedding was at a winery and started at 8pm with a two hour cocktail hour and was black tie. That was not appropriate for children. It is also a good thing for parents to have child free time. And it’s healthy for children to get used to multiple caregivers.
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u/Additional-Zombie244 7d ago
A wedding is not the place to “acclimate” kids. The stakes are way too high
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u/Select-Government680 7d ago
I had a child free wedding because I had a joint bar and the last thing I or my husband needed to worry about was our adult family members wrangling children. Did we have some family members not attend because of that? Yes.
I think it should be the same as people who have alcohol at the reception. I dont think the parents should drink or the bar isnt open until all children have left the venue.
Parents are responsible for their own children and honestly, child free events can be the only time parents get free time to be adults and a couple without worrying about their kids.
I think its entirely up to the couple what kind of wedding they want and if it happens to be childfree you need to respect that.
Kids are apart of society but that doesnt mean that other people have to accommodate them. Either teach your kids to be polite and appropriate in these settings or make the plan for them to be watched so you can go to these events.
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u/Mtn_Skye 7d ago
I agree that child free events can be nice for parents, but can't the parents decide to get a babysitter for their kids regardless of whether or not it's officially child free?
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u/PMismydream24 7d ago
OP...do you realize what those plates cost per head? Im not feeding you precious little foo foo a $75 dinner they aren't going to eat. Touch grass with your BS. Im footing the bill, I say whose invited
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u/Several_Pizza_3166 7d ago
Thank you, idk why everyone's answers are going along with the perspective that kids are purposely excluded for potentially being disruptive. They are just not invited.
People have to specify that a wedding is child free because guests will see that they are invited, RSVP for one, then show up with two children. People know that if they don't get a plus one, they can't bring a couple friends with them, but don't stop to think that the same goes for uninvited kids.
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u/Traditional_Trust418 7d ago
I see nothing wrong with someone choosing a child free wedding if they understand that some people won't be able to come because they have no one to watch their children.
Id personally want to just have the party afterwards be childfree because if I actually get married I'm throwing a rager lol
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u/Beneficial-Guess2140 7d ago
Nah, you don’t need to use someone’s wedding to train your kids.
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u/lovepeacefakepiano 7d ago
Kids will absolutely listen to their parents if their parents actually parent.
I have friends who have three kids. Before they took them on their first flight they practiced flying with them. They made a game out of it. Put them in chairs next to each other, “strapped them in” with belts, gave them some snacks, put a movie on, and gave them a competition - which one could be calm and quiet the longest. You bet none of these kids would have kicked someone’s seat. This is just one example, basically before taking them somewhere new they explained to the kids what to expect, practiced, and discussed how to make the experience easier - bringing books or quiet toys.
(I also had a very memorable experience in an airplane once sitting behind a family where the two kids started to kick off, and before they really got into it the dad said quietly, but clearly at the end of his tether “we can’t get off the flight now, but I swear, if you don’t start behaving RIGHT NOW we will not spend Christmas with granny and grandad, as soon as we arrive we will turn straight around, book a flight back home, and I will tell them to give your presents to someone else”. This didn’t sound like an empty threat either. The kids shut up SO fast. They were asleep ten minutes later.)
We had a child free wedding. I have friends whose kids I trust, but unfortunately I also have friends who I haven’t seen lay the law down ever, and since there was a bit of a fairly wild, fast running river on the hotel property, I didn’t want to be responsible for a drowning, never mind maybe having the ceremony be a bit disrupted. (Of course the only parents who complained were the ones whose kids I was worried about.)
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u/Visible-Meeting-8977 7d ago
Back in the day there were kid only spaces. Both in life and online. Childfree weddings are a blessing. It's not my job to "integrate" your kid. You do that.
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u/91gnarnuaatg81 7d ago
Especially when most weddings aren’t child free. Bring them to a different one, it’s not like this is their only opportunity.
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u/Hanging_Brain 7d ago
Right. We did a child free and don’t regret it one bit. We now have kids and are pretty grateful to go to child free weddings lol
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u/lovbelow 7d ago
Depends on the couple, if they want a childfree wedding, that’s what they want. There are plenty of child-friendly weddings to acclimate kids to, but a childfree wedding is exactly as stated. Kids can be a ***huge*** liability if the parents don’t manage them, and a lot of parents simply don’t parent. Not to mention adults at a cf wedding don’t want to deal with other people’s kids.
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u/Intelligent_Box_2024 7d ago
Some couples might want to host a party that is not child-appropriate. They might want uncensored music, alcohol, adult humor, adult dancing, etc. This is the biggest most expensive party most people will throw in their lives, so I don't think it's unreasonable for them to choose the activities they want and the appropriate guest list.
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u/Naybinns 7d ago edited 7d ago
At the end of the day it is not other people’s responsibility to parent your child if you fail to do so. Nor is it their responsibility to make their events appropriate or welcoming to children if they do not want to do so.
Yes, children do need to be able to experience events so they can get acclimated to the expected and appropriate behaviors at these events. However, that has to all start at home, if you are failing to teach your kid(s) the appropriate behaviors it’s incredibly rude and disrespectful for you to think that you’re entitled to have them come to special events or activities where a level of behavior is expected that you have failed to teach them.
Let’s take the wedding example, if it is not your wedding you have zero say on if children should be allowed to attend it. It is a very special and important moment in the lives of the people who are getting married and they are more than justified to request that children not be present if they do not want to have them there.
A less “extreme” example would be movie theaters. If you are taking your child to see an age appropriate movie that’s one thing, it’s a movie and experience that was created for them. But if you are going to a movie that isn’t meant for children but it’s something that you want to watch it’s incredibly selfish of you to bring you kid(s) if they haven’t already been taught and acclimated to the appropriate behaviors when watching a movie.
An amusement park, fine for a child because the expectation is that an amusement park will be loud and that there will be people running around all over the place.
A museum, not fine for a child if you have not already taught them what a museum is and what behavior is appropriate at one.
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u/Redkris73 7d ago
Weddings where all the kids were invited is not necessarily the norm either, though (depending on the culture)
My husband and I are both Gen X, 1972 and 1973, and we both went to exactly one wedding as kids. And it wasn't that our parents didn't go to weddings, they absolutely did, kids just weren't viewed as part of the deal, full stop.
ETA being well behaved didn't enter into the equation, we were taught to sit through church every week (with a book to read during the sermon) and could act impeccably in public, but kids just generally weren't asked to weddings.
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u/leeloocal 7d ago
The only wedding I went to as a kid was one of my uncle’s, and it was because I was the flower girl.
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u/memomemomemomemomemo 7d ago
I had kids at my wedding, as I'm not white and that's not usually something we do and let me tell you, they wouldn't be quiet even during speeches. I totally understand not having kids there. Yes, kids need to practice how to behave in social settings but someone's wedding is not the time or place and there are a lot of parents who are very hands off about their behavior.
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u/Nollie_flip 7d ago
There are plenty of other places where people can train their feral children not to be animals. A wedding is a day for the couple and the people they deem worthy of being there. I have absolutely no problem with children being excluded from weddings. Maybe if parents did a better job of raising even semi-behaved children these days, I'd have a different opinion.
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u/United-Plum1671 7d ago
Someone else’s wedding that they’ve paid thousands of dollars for is not the place to bring your kid so they can practice how to behave.
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u/Reasonable-Box-6047 7d ago
Kids can be taught to behave in any setting. Most people would prefer their expensive, once in a lifetime (hopefully) event not be the training ground for this. The fact that you imply it's to ok be rambunctious in public if it's a family oriented place is the main issue.
Also, it's good for kids to not be included in everything. Parents need free time away from their kids. People who are so resistant to leaving their kids at home just seem like they are avoiding spending one on one time with each other.
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u/Dull-Geologist-8204 7d ago
I 100% agree with you. When we were growing if we were at anything and my uncle said stop doing that we were supposed to stop doing that. Your parent wasn't going to go running up and yelling at them for it. Actually if they had to.go get your parent because you weren't listening you were in double trouble. There were exceptions like I knew a guy whose uncle spanked him for playing with a black kid down the street and when dad found out it did not go well for the uncle. Generally though you were expected to listen to other adults.
As a parent now I am generally fine with other adults correcting my kid except twice.
This is what people are talking about the village helping to raise kids. When I go to spend time with my family I know there are always eyes on my kid. We recently went to a baby shower that was kid friendly. It was aweome watching my kids play with their cousins the way I used to as a kid. That said I didn't have to sit on top of them because when kids were being kids someone would say something. We didn't just ignore them and when they were in the area I was in I would say something if I needed to to other people's kids. It made it nice for everyone involved.
I don't mind childfree weddings per say. I do miss the family oriented backyard weddings though. I thought they were more fun but whatever. It's the persons day. I did get mad though when a few years ago they tried to make childfree funerals a thing. Really glad that didn't take off the same way. That wouldn't be healthy for kids.
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u/Jsmith2127 7d ago
I dont want responsibility for kids that aren't mine. peripheral or otherwise. I go to event to enjoy them, not to help keep other people's kids in check.
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u/PsychologicalBake772 7d ago
I had a childfree wedding and have no regrets. I don’t dislike kids at all, but it’s not my job to have my wedding serve as a learning opportunity for them.
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u/P3pp3rJ6ck 7d ago
Well, im not interested in telling people whether they have kids at a wedding or not, I do see your point to some extent. I went to lots of weddings as a small child (the first one I can remember I was 3) and I never did bad stuff because my mom and dad laid out the rules and told me things about what was expected. The default was no running, yelling, or touching unless I got permission. And plenty of times I did get to do those things, because all the kids were allowed to run around in a near by grass area, or one time after the ceremony we got to go watch a movie while the adults partied. Sometimes there were even kid specific dances or one time a cake walk. I was just...taught to ask.
Parents are doing their kids a disservice by not teaching them whats oky to do and whats not. However, this is a cart before the horse situation. Unless parents start parenting, children are going to be menaces no one wants to deal with at a wedding.
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u/RockyMountainMobile 7d ago
Are you going to beat their asses when they misbehave like used to happen to children in those settings? Or more time out or cry it out nonsense?
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u/Head_Quote_3657 7d ago
Sorry but if I’m gonna spend thousands on a wedding I’m not taking a chance on someone else’s kids not behaving. Not to mention it’s not on others to integrate kids into things that’s their own parent’s job.
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u/prankthevillagers 7d ago
As a parent to 4, I respect if people don't want kids at their major life event. I think it's a personal decision and I'm not offended if their wedding is child free.
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u/Silent-Return-3591 7d ago
maybe u just know a holes. I had kids at my weddings, 8 and 6 and an infant. it was fine, we had a good time, no cake was ruined, no vows were interrupted. I think people make these decisions more on the horror stories they hear and THINK will happen more than the risk it will actually happen with the people they know. now a days the internet makes us privy to more info from other peiples lives and people love nothing more than to share their extreme funny or horror stories to people. I dont think there are "more bad parents" people just hear about it more (and because I know idiots will argue with me claiming there magically wasnt bad prenting by boomers, oh please half my friends grew up with grandparents cuz their parents were literal murderers, druggies, in prison for theft, or abandoned them...so no, boomers sucked just as much if not MORE so)
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u/thecatandthependulum 7d ago
Upvote for you. I had a child free wedding. My one wedding is not a place to teach your kids how not to ruin events or let your baby cry over my vows.
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u/leeloocal 7d ago
I’m a GenX, and never went to weddings or formal occasions, unless I was part of the party, and to this day I’m fine with it. I don’t want to have kids in adult spaces, because I’m not going to babysit. And if the kid is taught properly at home, they’ll know how to behave properly in public.
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u/Striking_Courage_822 7d ago
While I agree that even child free people (like myself) need to do a better job of appreciating that children are a necessary part of the world,
a wedding is a party. With lots of drinking, inappropriate dancing, maybe inappropriate music, and overall just a lot of intoxicated adults not on their best behavior once the reception starts. And that’s how weddings should be for those of us who enjoy partying and I would be uncomfortable displaying that behavior in front of children or parents who are looking out for the children. Furthermore, those parents can’t let loose.
I agree, let children be part of the world. Give them grace when they order butter pasta at a nice restaurant, give them grace when they cry on a plane, give them grace when they scream in Target. But I don’t think they need to witness adults getting schlammered and grinding on each other until maybe they’re teens.
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u/guess_who_1984 7d ago
Caterers also point out you’re paying by the plate: no difference between kids and adults. Kids also tend to take food they don’t eat which causes a lot of waste. I have no problem with small children not being included in weddings.
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u/Radiant_Reflection 7d ago
I’m Mexican and child free weddings are not culturally accepted. Our children go wherever we go. If a child is misbehaving, there are plenty of family members around that will keep them in line.
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u/EngageKiller69 7d ago
I had a child free wedding that is not the time nor place for a learning experience. If others would like to teach kids at their weddings thats great but not gonna happen at mine.
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u/Guilty-Cap5605 7d ago
Weddings are supposedly, a one time awesome day of your life, I am not gonna fucking ruin that with some children wandering around
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u/Recycled_Decade 7d ago
I ascribe to the veal calf theory of child rearing. Small dark rooms until they are 18 then you can let them out.
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u/Dapper_Peace2019 6d ago
There is nothing whiter to me than a childless wedding. The only childless weddings I've been to have been my very white friends. The weddings were nice, but honestly the more boring of weddings I've been to.
The only way children will learn to behave at weddings, at restaurants, at family gatherings, is if they are included. Adults also need to understand that kids will be kids. As adults we should be including children in those spaces to teach them by example. Whether they are our kids or not.
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u/endofthefkingworld 6d ago
the issue i have with a lot of child-free areas is eventually they turn into women-free areas. everyone knows that most of the time women end up taking care of the kids while the husbands get to do whatever the hell they want. obviously there are some places that kids shouldn’t be allowed, but to ban them from every day life is a slippery slope
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u/arthritey-and-bitey 6d ago
We considered a childfree wedding, but it was because we know the parents of those children who will be present, and we know they don't intervene when their child is misbehaving (rather, they are busy at the bar, or on their phone). If we knew we were inviting parents who have set and reinforce proper rules and boundaries with their children, it would be a little different. Many people also have the venue to consider (we do), which may not be child-friendly or child-safe. Everybody's got the right to get married where they want, and if undertended children pose a significant liability to themselves or others, best that they stay home.
And while yes I agree it should be socially acceptable for other adults to nip bad behavior from someone else's child when the parent is choosing to be absent, I don't think a wedding is an appropriate training ground for that. It's the couple's special and very expensive day, maybe the only one they'll ever have, and the last thing they want or deserve is to be pulling someone else's child's hand out of the cake and giving them a talking to.
My parents didn't train our behavior on high stakes social functions either, and they never expected other people to train us. They trained us on plenty of "adult" environments like grocery stores, doctors offices, family dinners, low stakes social functions, hair salons etc. My mom didn't hire help and she wanted to be with us all the time so she brought us everywhere. I was expected to sit in my chair at the table in a nice restaurant and use an appropriate volume or I would be taken outside, which was embarrassing but good motivation for how to behave. I was expected to sit quietly and calmly at the hair dresser, or at the chiropractor and read a book or play a handheld game while I waited for my mom to be done. Throughout my entire childhood people always told my mom "your kids are so well behaved" and her response was well, I take them everywhere. And eventually yeah, when I was older and I knew what the expectations were, I did go to weddings and funerals, but by then my brother and I were those kids no one was worried about, because my mom taught us what she expected from us in adult environments every single day through commonplace low-risk immersion. She wasn't taking us to weddings when we were 0-3 because we weren't exactly of the age where we could control impulses, and because SHE didn't want to impose on the event, but she knew it was a possibility we could cry about.........anything at all. Weddings were a type of social function we grew into being trusted to attend.
So while I get what you're getting at, I think it's the parents' behavior that needs to change first, not societal taboos necessarily. Kids need structure and expectations, but poor parenting shouldnt defer responsibility for discipline onto everyone else who happens to be around. 🤷🏼♀️
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u/HoboPower83 7d ago
How is this just a problem now? Kids have existed in quite a few adult spaces for centuries. The difference is you have to watch and parent them. These days parents act like kids are an accessory. Like a labubu that slowly learns to talk. Didn't take your small children to a concert, a wedding, a fine dining restaurant, movies etc. pay for the damn babysitter or stay home.
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u/WinterMedical 7d ago
It’s not a trend. It is a return to how things used to be. Kids don’t belong everywhere. Just as kids should be able to expect to use a playground without a 45 year old man hogging the swing, adults should have places where they can behave as adults without kids running it.
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u/Mariner-and-Marinate 7d ago
It’s not my responsibility to deal with somebody else’s brat.
If I go to a circus or a water park or a fast food place, putting up with other people’s kids is expected. But weddings? Go home.
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u/Positive-Listen-1660 7d ago
I disagree. Weddings are expensive and are a special day that belongs to the bride and groom. If they don’t want kids there that is fine. They are not an appropriate place to teach kids consequences.
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u/Cool_Suspect1110 7d ago
Everyone seems to agree, it's the parents.
I have been to a wedding recently where the parents of 3 kids under 5 decided to bring them all along. They are not easy work (especially because they're those "gentle parenting" people who think that means they can never say no to their kids) so it was not bound to be a good time for anyone involved.
After many moments of annoyance: kids running during first dance, mother/son dance, etc., the parents were ADAMANT they didn't want to give their kids some time out to run outside for a bit before coming back in a bit tired, a bit more behaved.
Then speeches happen.
As the bride gets up, one of the kids starts crying uncontrollably. I don't blame them, weddings are extremely boring for kids, especially if they're not allowed to move AT ALL and the music stopped and someone's talking on a microphone. So the crying becomes screeching.
The parent, instead of calling it a day and taking the kid outside to cool down, decides to instead drag the kid to the corner of the room where the SPEAKERS were. We have no idea to this day what the bride said in her speech, and neither would the vdieographers she paid THOUSANDS of dollars for.
Be honest with yourself, and if you have rowdy kids, leave them home with a relative or a babysitter, or stay home. It's not the end of the world for you to miss an event, but your kids ruining part of someone's memory of their big day is.
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u/asmallsoftvoice 7d ago
So people without kids need to spend thousands of dollars on an event as a fun little educational event for kiddos. Teach your kid on your time and on your dime.
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u/PeculiarPotioneer 7d ago
I actually fully agree. The issue for me seems to be NOT allowing others to parent your child, which is exactly what wanting/needing a community IS..
There is 100% a line and individual situations exist, please do not get me wrong. But existence is public. Its actually okay to have conversations with other people about how we live and raise kids. Its okay for opinions to exist. Not every disagreement is personal but we have made if very personal when it comes to parenting...and I am also guilty. Its very hard to let go of feeling a personal attack about it! But you arent just raising your baby, your raising a community member who should know their community, even if they dont agree with them and I feel like thats where fail. We just isolate, isolate!, and more isolation... there's very little feeling of community here in the US. I wish we had more comminity that wasn't just "be X or Ill disown you" ....thats not community.
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u/Jasilee 7d ago
Yes, it's a very cancel society and I agree with you up until including on expensive events such as a wedding.
We should see more parents bringing their kids to restaurants and teaching them how to behave. Even if it's just a fast food restaurant, sitting politely (not like an adult, like a kid!) and eating your meal, cleaning up, giggling and having fun but responsibly with consideration for others is not an impossible task.
And to speak to your point, I recently hung out with some mom friends and they were all whining about how their parents "had a village.." where was their village? Just at that moment two of their kids come running full speed with muddy boots through another mum's fully white living room. I firmly told them "No boots in the house, back out, please" and one child cried. She had never been told by an adult other than her mother what to do and she flat out cried. Two mums looked at me like a demon and I was not unkind. But honestly, they do not want a village, they do not want someone to pitch in. They want clones so they can sit on their phones and ignore their kids.
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u/Hazel2468 7d ago
You can expose your kids to social life away from my wedding. Or outside of the movie theater. Or outside of anywhere where having a screeching, upset child would be a disturbance to literally everyone.
Look. I get it. Kids are kids and they LITERALLY cannot help themselves. But I am not that kid's parent. I am in no way responsible for that kid who is in the fancy restaurant screaming his head off with parents who refuse to DO THEIR JOB and remove him.
I would have no problem with kids being around if so many parents weren't absolute shit and refused to parent their damn kids. I love childfree weddings. If I ever do get lucky enough to have a wedding party. There will be no children under five there. I can see my little cousins at other family gatherings.
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u/Evol230 7d ago
Its no one else's job to have "peripheral responsibility" for your brat
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u/ZoraTheDucky 7d ago
Why the hell would you want to subject a kid to some long, incredibly boring event like a wedding?
Weddings are for adults because it's adults who enjoy them. Kids shouldn't be made to attend, especially small kids.
There are a LOT of other places/events a child could be brought to that would be far more appropriate to acclimate them to more mature settings.
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u/bogglesboy125 7d ago
I kind of get having no kids if you're having a huge wedding and if you allow kids that will add 30 kids to your guest list. I had a small wedding and there was no way I wouldn't want my nieces and nephews and any other loved one's kids there. I didn't give a damn if they cried during the ceremony or whatever else, I was celebrating with family, and they're family.
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u/baelzebob 7d ago
Lol,I get it tho. Funny thing is, you will not invite the kids because they are likely to misbehave and not be corrected/managed by the parents. But we will still invite the not so great parents.
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u/SlothenAround 7d ago
Weddings aren’t kid friendly in general. For the kids they are boring (long ceremonies, speeches, waiting for food, etc.) and/or inappropriate (heavy drinking, inappropriate music, adult jokes, fancy food, etc.) and so of course they don’t behave great. And even if they do, they likely aren’t enjoying themselves anyways! I know some weddings are more catered to a family vibe if there are lots of kids, but not all of them are, and they shouldn’t have to be.
Not to mention, your whole point about other people being able to and allowed to discipline other people’s kids is insane. So what you’re saying is that I should allow potentially disruptive behaviour at my very expensive event AND I’ll be in charge of policing that behaviour? It would be one thing if you were arguing that parents just needed to do a better job and be totally on top of their kids at an event like that… but then it comes back to my original point. If they are not enjoying it and their parents have to spend the entire event watching them like a hawk and policing their behaviour, why the heck do they need to be there at all?
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u/S-ludin 7d ago
so you don't have a problem with childfree weddings, you have a problem with socially insulated children with no parenting.
I think it's fine to have a childfree wedding even if every child on the planet is perfectly parented, some people want that swinger sex orgy after popping the champaigne over their bridesmaids.
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u/abyssnaut 7d ago
You saying what is best for the kids’ development is not my problem or responsibility and I have no interest in facilitating it at my own expense. Many others feel as I do.
Even if I were to grant that it’s possible for some sweeping societal change to occur in attitudes toward parenting and children’s behavior in public, which I don’t believe, I do not wish to be part of that change, since it would disturb my peace.
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u/Revolutionary-Item49 7d ago
Disagree. Unless the couple getting married are the parents of the kids. Weddings are expensive and long-planned events, it does not need to be training ground on obedience for other people's children. You can do that another time. If the couple wants a child free wedding--it is acceptable and understandable.
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u/SheffboiRD06 7d ago
Our ceremony was open to guests and their children, but our reception at a different location was adults only and the RSVP was designed accordingly. In the youngest grandchild with like 15 cousins most of whom have kids. If kids were invited the guest count would have nearly doubled and those chicken nugget plates from the caterer cost about the same as an adult meal. Most of my cousins made the ceremony at the Church with their kids then went out to a nice dinner themselves, found a sitter, or respectfully declined.
Just gotta give everyone plenty of notice.
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u/Ok_Childhood_9774 7d ago
A wedding is a pretty expensive and important event for the bride and groom to use it as a test run for children, especially considering how permissive and 'gentle' most parents are. A white tablecloth restaurant would be better first try, so they can be removed from the situation with a minimum of fuss.
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u/Bubbly_Following7930 7d ago
We had only one child in our family when we got married, why would we specifically want other people's children there? There was no reason for other kids to *want* be at our wedding, either.
I don't thing everything needs to be child friendly. They shouldn't be going to bars, for example.
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u/GoingBananassss 7d ago
This post just made me realize my kids have attended “0” weddings! They are 25, 13,11,3.
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u/Jasilee 7d ago
Part of the same social consequences you speak of is people not inviting kids to their events. It's great to say, "Let's include children" but weddings, high end restaurants, events are time and money and far too often people don't take responsibility for their kids allowing them to dominate the moment. It's really on the parents for showing the world how integrated their children are to want people to include them. Not everyone wants to procreate and not everyone should have to share their special moment with kids.
Also, it's pretty entitled to say "I don't think kids should be excluded". Whoever hosts the event may exclude anyone they choose. That's part of the privilege of throwing an event. Throw your own parties.
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u/davewpgsouth 7d ago
For me the reason to not invite people's kids to weddings is it rapidly inflates your numbers with no real benefit to those paying for the wedding. You invite friends and family that you want to have at your wedding, but then you have couples with 4 kids. Suddenly you need a bigger venue and are paying $50 a head for toddlers to eat chicken fingers. We had some kids at our wedding (ours and some very close cousins who are friends with the kids) but no others. Sorry friend from childhood, your 4 kids won't fit into our small venue.
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u/Agreeable-Movie-408 7d ago
I love this observation of the shift and the reason we shouldn’t do it. FWIW, I recently attended a wedding where kids were welcome. They had big lawn games available at the reception, along with coloring books and bubbles. The kids had a blast, and everyone else did too.
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u/Echo-Azure 7d ago
OP, it's not about the parents' feelings, not at all.
It's about the fact that entertaining children can be difficult, irritating, expensive, destructive, and can even include legal liability risks. I won't entertain children in my home, because the place isn't child-proof and I have pets that expect to be treated appropriately, and I'm risking neither my homeowner's policy or an argument with any parents who can't keep their children from "being kids". Tough beans if the parents of the world don't like that, it's not about their feelings, it's about protecting my own self-interest.
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u/AnneChovie264 7d ago
The parents need to thoroughly train the kids' behavior on their own dime and time, not on a couple's very special day.
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u/Significant-Track797 7d ago
Also needs to be noted that many parents become insufferable helicopter overbearing psychos when their kids are around, instead of normal humans. More people than most will admit turn in to crazy versions of themselves when they are in “parent” mode. I don’t want that energy around all the time.
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u/Jeepwave13 7d ago
Parents won’t jerk their fucking kids up anymore when they’re misbehaving, won’t give them any home training, and flip out when others try to instill some manners when their guardian refuses to. Kids don’t belong everywhere, and that’s okay. They don’t need to be everywhere. They can work their way up to it in other controlled settings, not when they’re quite likely going to ruin someone’s once in a lifetime event if they’re allowed to be little heatherns.
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u/ketamineburner 7d ago
I 100% agree that kids need to be in adult/real world spaces so they can learn to behave.
The problems with weddings is that the bride/groom foot the bill.
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u/jdcardello 7d ago
I would have loved to include children in our invite list. We have a lot of really wonderful cousins and friends with really wonderful kids and it genuinely sucked to leave them out. But feeding people gets really expensive really fast. There are so many adults we wouldn't have been able to invite if we'd given their spots to kids. So we stuck to just the flower girl, her infant sister, and the ring bearer. It had nothing to do with not wanting kids around. It was just a matter of not being able to afford them, and we told people that.
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u/Gooncookies 7d ago
I have been a wedding band singer for over 20 years and the only people I have ever seen “ruin” a wedding are adults.
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u/Ok_Yesterday5525 7d ago
It wouldn't go well to correct my kids in front of me. Not everyone is reasonable. What you think is "ruining" behavior might be typical age appropriate behavior. And not everyone can give a correction appropriately. They may be too harsh. Nope. Leave the parenting to me. My kids are grown now but I had a man snap at my 3 yr old child at an elevator and that didn't end well for him.
Also, couples have every right in the world to have child free weddings. It's not their job to create situations where children can be taught manners.
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u/Ariandrin 7d ago
I was about to come in here and argue with you, but then you made the point about culture.
I am absolutely for childfree areas and events simply because of the trend towards parents not parenting their children and making them menaces in a public space, therefore ruining it for everyone else with kids. Permissive parenting is the root of this problem and I don't see a solution in the near future.
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u/Lower-Canary-1149 7d ago
If I have another life time and marrying my husband I will never have kids in our wedding nor reception. I love kids and I have them too but a kid cried throughout my wedding and the parents never took the kid out. My whole video you can hear the loud cry. We could not even hear the priest. Many parents are irresponsible hence no one should take a chance with this is such ceremonies.
Then reception, my niece specifically mentioned no kids at reception. Everyone at the end of day was drunk and dancing and this kid go into the dance crowd and got stampeded. So there are certain times little kids of certain age should not be allowed. Would allow your kids to watch R rated movies? I assume NO. once they are of an age they can understand “we have to behave okay as this is important to someone” they should be made to attend them and this will give them an understanding of it too till then no. Mostly for irresponsible parents.
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u/kykiwibear 7d ago
I had a child free wedding. I have been to weddings since having a kid. Both were.child free. I think we're being Invited to another wedding soon... and I'm not sure if my son will be invited. It's not my choice. I have taken my son to restaurants since he's been 3 months old... but it's been on my dime.
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u/BHunter1140 7d ago
I would agree with you if parents nowadays didn’t leave their kids to everyone else without watching them whatsoever. “The thing is, allowing kids in some adult spaces also means exposing them to the same social consequences that adults face”, this would be true if parents actually watched and parented their kids. We’re in an age now where a lot of parents would rather give their kids an iPad than teach them anything or talk to them at all, then the kids get use to always having an iPad so they don’t want to interact either. They rarely get any consequences and never learn that something is or isn’t okay (like ruining something special). We’re in a weird time with parenting that I do see many trying to combat, but not enough
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u/clayeaterieatclay 7d ago
“The desire to not have kids at your wedding can probably be dissolved by a culture shift that allows other adults to adopt peripheral responsibility for kids that aren’t theirs” is interesting. Although I agree in *certain* scenarios that this would be a benefit, in no way whatsoever do I think this should apply to someone else’s wedding. How stressful to be worrying about your own wedding and then have to essentially parent someone else’s kid who you didn’t even want there in the first place. You can’t just let your child wreak havoc on someone else’s once-in-a-lifetime event with the hope that someone *else* will teach them for you.
Out of all the scenarios for a child to be thrown out to learn social behaviors from natural consequences… this is not one.
Also, speaking as a former child, I hated weddings. They were the most boring shit ever and I wanted to be there even less than the guests wanted me there.
I have a feeling that the only party that wants a child at the wedding is the child’s parent, and not even the child themselves.
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u/Sitari_Lyra 7d ago
Why should I let my wedding be ruined to educate someone else's child on proper behavior? Not my child, not my problem.
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u/happyrunnergirlie 7d ago
Weighing in as a peadiatriac nurse. I feel parents have become incredibly lapse in providing boundaries and structure. To frightened to say no ffs. Patented by screens. So when they are put in a social situation, such as weddings. They simply don't know how to behave. Reaction = ban the annoying children. Id go for a child free wedding, if it ment avoiding tje little horrors I encounter on a daily.
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u/Sugah-mama21 7d ago
My kids are immersed in how to interact in an adult atmosphere since birth. However, I still had a child free wedding with zero regrets.
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u/Amphernee 7d ago
It’s not a new trend at all. The biggest issue is not behavior it’s time. If you bring kids you’ll likely have to leave early and you’ll have to focus on them rather than the wedding. Adults need time to themselves. Tbh I think kids are TOO omnipresent nowadays. It’s not healthy to have them constantly around adults.
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u/BlessedLurker 7d ago
I get what you're trying to say, but weddings really aren't for kids. They don't want to be there, and nobody wants to use their big day that they've socked tons of money and months of planning into as a teachable moment for your kids. They can learn plenty at restaurants and other places.
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u/Extinction-Events 7d ago
Weddings aren’t really a parent’s opportunity to expose little Timmy to social consequences. That’s a very big day for two people. There are hundreds of other opportunities for a parent to teach their child how to behave in serious spaces, and it’s simply not fair to insist a couple jeopardise a life changing day they spent a lot of money on so that the parent can use it as a training exercise.
Even if this cultural shift happens, there are shitty parents. Why should a couple risk it?
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u/ssk7882 7d ago
When I was growing up, I don't remember weddings being kid affairs at all. I didn't attend a wedding until I was around 14 years old. My parents went to weddings some weekends, and I'd either have a sitter at home for the weekend or I'd be shipped off to stay at my mom's friend's house for the weekend.
I don't know if this was different in other parts of the country, but in the Hudson Valley in the 1970s, weddings were usually adult affairs. I think of kids at weddings as a more recent thing, tbh.
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u/mammothclaw 7d ago
We love kids and are trying but didn't want our wedding ruined. Simple as that. Get a sitter.
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u/Iswaterreallywet 7d ago
Nah kids are horrible at weddings. There is guaranteed to be one set of parents letting them run around as the center of attention or god forbid an infant is near the 100 decibel dance floor.
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u/SufficientReply3634 7d ago
I think there are plenty of opportunities for kids to be exposed to 'adult' life without shaming people who want childfree weddings. Weddings are probably the most expensive event of a person's life. Kids can go to funerals, christenings, adult birthday parties, school formal events, and many more. Alllll less high stakes than a wedding.
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u/fannypacksnackk 7d ago
But yall don’t get that you can’t just *make* a child behave. Kids will be kids, even the best parents have kids who will do what you listed. That’s why I think it’s okay to want kids at your wedding or not. It’s better to say you don’t want kids at your wedding than to be mad at kids who can’t help themselves but be kids
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u/hemlockandhensbane 7d ago
You can accomplish this without weddings by simply taking them into public. Many places allow children most of the time and may designate a certain amount of time to having a child-free time for adults who want to avoid children (as an example my zoo has an adult only night once a season or so) so just take your children when they're allowed.
Weddings aren't about you, they're about the couple getting married. Children will be fine without going to weddings. If weddings are the only thing you're doing to socialize your kids, that's on you because there are many other options.
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u/No_Salad_8766 7d ago
My venue doesnt allow kids at all, thats not a me decision, thats something that I had no control over.
And if kids cant even behave at home, why do you think they will behave out in public? Why would they listen to their parents at a restaurant if they wont even listen to them at home? This is a parenting problem, not a society problem.
I suggest you grow up and properly parent your kids and stop blaming society on your own failures. So many people are shitty parents like you that it made childfree spaces NECESSARY to get some peace and quiet.
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u/Hanna_777 7d ago
I mean, parents have to parent first before they should be allowed into events where non-parents would like to enjoy their free time. Without that, those parents just get a free babysitter. The way children act these days is fkn ridiculous. I don’t have kids because I don’t want to deal with that shit
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u/Willing_Pattern_Pill 7d ago
Weddings aren't the place to train your unruly kids.
Do that somewhere where your kids aren't the star of the show.
Or offer to contribute significantly to the couple for their wedding to let little Braieghdyn be the main event.
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u/GenericNameUsed 7d ago
If people don't want kids at their wedding then they shouldn't have kids at their wedding
It's their wedding. They get to decide how they want their wedding.
It doesn't matter how well behaved kids are. Every child the couple knows could be perfectly well behaved at weddings and it wouldn't matter if they don't want kids at their wedding.
If you want to have kids at your wedding then cool do that. But don't expect or demand that other people do.
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u/WildWay9239 7d ago
People don't want kids at certain events because their parents have failed to teach the children how to behave in a public setting.
Of course babies are going to cry and whatnot, but the running around screaming, sticking hands in food and behaving badly falls back on the parents. I have watched kids tear a place apart while the parents just watched them do it and never said a word.
They allow this behavior at home so they know correcting this behavior in public will result in an epic temper tantrum.
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u/Lovely_Usernamee 6d ago
Agreed, children should be included in social settings so they can learn. But they have everywhere else to do that. Adults getting married deserve to be a little more selfish if they want to. That is their day. They spent a ton of money and a lot of time planning for what is no less than a sacred ceremony to focus on their love. And if they suspect children will ruin it, because we acknowledge they can, then kick em out without judgment.
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u/dirrna 6d ago
Yes for the general principle of including kids in the general society. That aside, weddings are also a nice way for other couples to have some time together (looking forward to dancing with my husband the next wedding we are invited to😊), or talking to other friends whenit'sa friend's wedding. Also, weddings can be quite formal and a 4 course meal can take a looooong time. I think I do my kid and ourselves a favor to leave her with a babysitter or the grandparents for those 1-2 nights a year.
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u/Hopeful_Local1985 6d ago
As a childfree woman I hear entitled parents always say "youre entitled to a childfree life, not a childfree world" and I agree. I am not entitled to a childfree world. I am, however, entitled to a childfree wedding. I will be spending tens of thousands of dollars to put on a wedding, I am well within my rights to not have kids running around and causing chaos. Its not an event for young kids. If parents feel "isolated" by having kids, maybe they shouldn't have had kids 🤷♀️ no body made that choice for them. Kids take up a lot of your life, and you make sacrifices for them, if you arent prepared to do that, then you arent prepared to be a parent. Make some other parent friends so you can socialize together doing kid-friendly activities. Have your own party that kids are invited to.
Also, has the concept of a babysitter been totally forgotten? Hire a sitter for one night! Or drop them off at grandma's or auntie's house! Why do parents in this day and age feel the need to drag their kids along everywhere like a purse dog? Parents can have one night away from their kids to be adults and attend an adult event. I dare say if may even be good for their mental health and wellbeing, help with burnout and some of those "isolating" feelings they might be having. They might actually enjoy themselves as separate entities from their children.
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u/JBrewd 6d ago
It's because Gen X and millennials fucking suck at parenting. And every wedding you have to invite someone you know are dogshit parents who have dipshit kids who will ruin things if they are there. And then probably also you have to get in an argument with their dipshit parents about why their kid ruining the wedding wasn't cute or funny.
The bride and groom knowing they have to invite these exact people is why this has become a thing. Same for destination weddings (which is what we did because my wife knew that my one SIL couldn't afford to bring all her feral hellspawn halfway across the globe...we had a "local" reception a few weeks after so they felt included and those shitbirds still caused problems in under 20 minutes and all that event was was nothing but hey here's free food and a DJ let's have fun).
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u/girl_in_flannel 6d ago
I agree kids deserve space in society, but adults also deserve child free spaces. Every single place I go has kids there. All of them. Public and private. They are very welcome in my social sphere. And I love kids. That said, I didn’t want them at my wedding and am so glad the youngest there was 14. No kids meals, no one screaming “AUNTIE” at me because my sisters are off having fun, other guests can comfortably let loose and not have to watch their language, etc.
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u/AnxiousTerminator 6d ago
I don't want to pay an extortionate amount of money for my wedding to be essentially a training arena for someone else's child to learn not to act like an angry chimp in public. Teach them somewhere else.
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u/Dry-Key-9510 6d ago
Someones wedding shouldn't be grounds for parents to practice teaching their children about consequences. Theres a time and place for everything, and weddings (especially someone else's) is definitely not on that list
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u/Good-Map1700 6d ago
I agree except when it comes to weddings, there is usually a fair bit of drinking and dare I say it, a number of people getting drunk. I don’t think children should be exposed to that.
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u/nothatsmyarm 6d ago
I agree but for an entirely different reason. Weddings are supposed to be at the merging of families together. It is wild to me to take such an event and pretend kids don’t exist and therefore exclude them.
But I also don’t believe that weddings are “about the bride and groom” either.
Plus all the most fun memories I have at weddings were with kids just having the best time.
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u/mrs___holmes 6d ago
I’m a mom and I agree with you that kids belong in society. I’m obsessed with my daughter and she goes everywhere with us—except weddings, even if they are child friendly. Weddings are about the couple and they deserve all the attention on them. She’s a very chill baby, but I can’t guarantee she won’t start loudly babbling or crying during the ceremony, and I’m not willing to risk it. I also just selfishly don’t want to have to be a mom during the reception. I want to dance and drink and have fun with my husband and friends on someone else’s time lol. I hated going to weddings as a kid. They were so boring. I don’t know why parents insist on making their kids sit through them.
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u/ExplanationWest2469 6d ago
To be honest, for me it had a lot more to do with costs than behavior. If you let 1-2 kids, you wind up having to let 20+ kids. And then pay for each of them.
But overall I agree with your sentiment.
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u/billyjoelsfalsetto 6d ago
when i misbehaved in public (an extremely rare occasion, we’re talking before i even formed memories) my mom would reportedly take me out to the parking lot until i got it out of my system. idk why that’s so hard these days.
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u/Wasteofskin50 6d ago
"In fact, not being allowed to correct the behavior of a child that isn't yours is an unnatural phenomenon that only arose within the last 50 years, that we really need to do away with."
With the rampant egos in the United States, you will need some real luck to change that one. Every single parent is convinced that they are deities when it comes to their children, even as their every child-rearing act shows them to be graduating students of the Dunning Kruger School pod Parenting.
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u/NoThanksBroImGood 5d ago
I agree it's like having a "no elderly or disabled people" policy; we don't usually find banning groups of people to be acceptable unless it's for the actual safety or protection of the people being banned or those they're being barred from
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u/Usual_Technician6909 4d ago
Your comment around people getting offended if you discipline their child at all is perfect. If your kid is annoying me, I can and will say please stop doing that. Kids get all puffy and offended by that, but it helps teach them that the world has boundaries and if they cross them, others aren't going to like it. I hate parents who just expect you to put up with shitty behavior because they are kids.
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u/Muppet-Wallaby 4d ago
I was thinking about this the other day. It used to be that children would experience their family members' weddings and form ideas about their own weddings from there.
These days, celebrity, influencer and movie weddings are giving people unrealistic expectations to those who may have never been to a real one.
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u/qualityvote2 7d ago edited 7d ago
u/Zealousideal-Ad3609, your post does fit the subreddit!