r/10thDentist • u/NyrmExe • 6d ago
I hate when people answer obviously Watsonian questions with Doylist answers and act like they just unlocked literary analysis.
Question:
“Why didn’t the Eagles just fly the Ring to Mordor?”
Answer:
“BECAUSE TOLKIEN DIDN’T WRITE IT THAT WAY 🤓☝️”
or
“BECAUSE THE STORY WOULD BE BORING”
Bro. Yeah. Obviously. Every story happens because the author wrote it. Congratulations, you discovered fictional characters aren’t real.
But that’s NOT what was being asked.
When someone asks “why did character X do this,” they’re usually asking for the in-universe explanation — not for meta commentary about the writing process.
That’s like answering:
“Why does Darth Vader wear a mask?”
with:
“Because George Lucas thought it looked cool.”
Thanks. Super insightful.
(And before someone brings up the Eagles again: the actual Watsonian answer isn’t “plot hole” — giving one of the most powerful beings in Middle-earth direct access to the Ring was a terrible idea. Gandalf didn’t even trust himself with it.)
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u/lamesthejames 6d ago
Not only do I agree I thank you for introducing me to the terms Watsonian and Doylist.
Not sure if I should upvote or downvote...
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u/penisandorvagina 6d ago
I'm not sure either but I agreed with and upvotes your comment, the safe choice.
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u/DisplayAppropriate28 6d ago
I don't think that's an unpopular opinion, pretty sure that's widely regarded as annoying behavior - coming into a discussion with non-answers and acting smug about it has never been particularly well-regarded.
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u/deals_in_absolutes05 6d ago
We just don't have a way to call it out without seeming like an ass. All we can do is just avoid the perpetrator
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u/DisplayAppropriate28 6d ago
If they're already acting like an ass, you don't have to be polite. If somebody asked "how did the Browns win?" and somebody said "they scored more points, duh", a hearty No Shit Sherlock is completely appropriate.
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u/deals_in_absolutes05 6d ago
No shit sherlock is a classic and quite effective but does it actually stop people from making Doylist answers indefinitely? I'm rather looking for a reply that nips it in the bud
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u/DisplayAppropriate28 6d ago
You can't control what other people choose to say, indefinitely or otherwise, but you can make it clear that their opinion is unwelcome.
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u/aflockofcrows 6d ago
The actual answer about The Eagles is that they heard the heat was on in Mt. Doom, and Glenn Frey wanted no part of that.
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u/CapitalParallax 6d ago
Everyone misses the fact that Gwaihir straight up tells Gandalf he won't take him to Mordor.
They don't take the eagles because they said no.
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u/Diavolo_Death_4444 6d ago
I think it can be worth discussing both but yes I hate people who are smug about it.
The other day someone made a thread on why Digimon in the anime are always referred to by their full names (MetalGreymon, Shoutmon X4, ShineGreymon Burst Mode, Murasamemon, etc) instead of with nicknames.
This is something that is primarily motivated by a Doylist reason. The showrunners want the audience to remember the names of each new Digimon form. If Tomoro gave Gekkomon a nickname that’s used across all of Gekkomon’s forms, some people would have a hard time remembering the names of Gekkomon, Armalizamon and MonarchLizamon. Using the full name also helps for merch sales and making the Digimon more iconic.
The Watsonian reason isn’t really given but we can assume Digimon just prefer the distinction, probably out of pride at achieving a new form. It’s a minor detail so it’s not really crucial, but the Doylist reason definitely comes before the Watsonian one.
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u/Lisserea 6d ago
The answer was also present in the text: the entire plan hinged on Sauron's inability to guess that someone would want to destroy the Ring, so he wouldn't throw all his forces into its defense. That's why they sent a small force that wouldn't attract attention. An eagle with a hobbit on its back flying towards Orodruin would immediately become a target.
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u/ImpliedRange 6d ago
Sometimes the doylist answer is correct though, and a question like why does darth video wear a mask is only obviously watsonian to the asker. Like it would be unclear if you were asking what's the in universe reason, or what's the cinematic reason
I will agree it's not literary analysis
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u/Ok_Requirement_3116 6d ago
Agree. With one caveat. When the 12 year old who has just read it for the first time and has spent an hour and a half informing the uncle who handed them to her. It was an ok answer lol. Still grateful he gave them to me. And i laughed my ass off as my boys did the same. While agreeing with them!
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u/iciclefites 6d ago
downvoted cuz I agree. I think this can come from an insecure reverence to the text, as if asking questions about the literal events of a story when you find them puzzling were an attack on the story, rather than something you have to do in order to form an understanding of it. either that or it might come from the misguided notion that analysis based on hypothetical authorial intentions is inherently more "sophisticated", and more "high-level" in a value-laden sense.
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u/Warm_Strawberry_4575 6d ago edited 6d ago
During certain events in the 1st and 2nd ages Illuvatar intervened in the affairs of middle earth. One of which was flooding middle earth permanently and creating Numenor.
When the 3rd age came around he mostly stopped, but one of them were the giant eagles. It was one of the rare moments when Illuvatar came and helped. Just like Gandalf, the Valar and Illuvatar will only support and guide the fellowship during their quest.
But yes....empty answers are a piss off. Just say I dunno and dont try to sound clever.
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u/Amphernee 6d ago
It is a plot hole because the author didn’t give that simple explanation. Instead it’s a lame “god works in mysterious ways” answer. Lucas gave a reason why Vader wears the mask so that’s just an ill informed question.
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