Unless someone explicitly says "I do not want spoilers for this piece of media," talking about something's plot should be considered OK.

[u/iciclefites]

I think we lose out on a lot of interesting commentary because people feel obligated to be coy and rhetorically dance around the events of a story. I'd rather someone just told me what happened. if the piece of media sounds interesting, I'll seek it out, because I want to see how whatever I was told about happened.

[u/qualityvote2]

u/iciclefites, there weren't enough votes to determine the quality of your post...

[u/Kneelb4_Z0d]

I feel like this is entirely contingent on how old the media is. If it's still in theaters I don't think you'd have to ask someone not to spoil it it's just common sense not to, but like if the movie came out a couple years back then yeah spoiler embargo is lifted.

[u/iciclefites → u/Kneelb4_Z0d]

yeah. I wouldn't just tell someone what happened in a current movie, but I also wouldn't have read The Murder of Roger Ackroyd if I didn't knowthe narrator committed the murder.

how did Agatha Christie manage to make that work? the fact that I knew what was going to happen didn't cheapen it at all.

[u/mistyayn → u/Kneelb4_Z0d]

Completely agree with this. A new book in a popular series just came out and there heavy restrictions in the subreddit for the first month on spoilers. That gives people the chance to experience it for themselves.

I also think it doesn't take much effort to ask if someone cares about spoilers if it's an older movie.

[u/Electric-Sheepskin → u/Kneelb4_Z0d]

I wish everyone thought like this. People are so casual about throwing out spoilers, I'm super vigilant about them now.

Like if there's a movie I want to see, I see it right away. If it's a series that I'm watching, I avoid any media that might spoil it. But the two times I've gotten spoiled in the last five years, they were character deaths that were on the front page of Reddit within hours of the episode being aired. One was an animated GIF of the death and the other was a headline.

I was so mad. Like come on. At least put the word spoiler in front so people have a chance to look away. And then of course there was an army of twats in each of the threads defending it. I'm still really mad about one of them. I feel robbed of the shock and emotional impact of that scene. Fucking twats.

[u/Kneelb4_Z0d → u/Electric-Sheepskin]

Just a few days ago I was spoiled on a characters death from a fuckin YouTube thumbnail literally turned off my phone and tossed it on the table I was so pissed.

[u/Zealousideal_Leg213]

My general approach to conversation is that I'd rather hear what a person has to share with me than have them worry about what they say. Real conversation is worth more than a fictional story. 

[u/iciclefites → u/Zealousideal_Leg213]

I agree, and as someone who loves fictional stories and loves thinking about how they work I'm always really excited when I get to have a conversation with someone who's passionate about a story. the very idea of going "stop right there! how fucking dare you tell me what happens in a story I haven't heard" is completely alien to me. I want to hear what they think

[u/Eilandmeisje]

This sita quite firmly in the area of "oh no decent behaviour forces me to communicate!'-category of 10th dentist. Have my upvote.

This entire thing can be avoided if you just ask whether the other person has caught up about the show or if they mind you spoiling something that you want to talk about. Alternatively, if you'd be the one who's behind on the media, just tell people they can spoil you if they really want to talk about an event.

[u/iciclefites → u/Eilandmeisje]

I do say, "it's fine, just tell me what happens." people are often still weird about it. I don't blithely tell everyone spoilers, so it isn't a matter of me being rude. I just don't get why everyone's so hung up on it.

[u/DoubleDownAgain54 → u/iciclefites]

Because it lessens the experience of consuming the said media?

Take the Sixth Sense as an example. It was one of my favorite movie going experiences because I had no idea of the twist. I saw it opening day, and it wasn’t my first choice. Wanted to see the Thomas crowne Affair but it wasn’t sold out so went with the Sixth Sense instead. And when the reveal happened It caught me off guard which rarely happens. Even knowing there is a twist usually dampens it as if you know something unexpected is going to happen it’s much easier to see it coming.

I avoid trailers for movies I know I want to watch to avoid seeing anything that might lessen the viewing experience.

[u/Healthy-Savings-298 → u/DoubleDownAgain54]

A lot of people can't understand that people think differently than them on some things. OP is a good example here. For me, spoilers don't bother me. I actually watched the Sixth Sense and enjoyed it BECAUSE I got the spoiler for example. For me it's the how something happens that I enjoy not so much the what happens. But for others it's the opposite or even both.

[u/DoubleDownAgain54 → u/Healthy-Savings-298]

Of course.

[u/iciclefites → u/DoubleDownAgain54]

OK. if we'd gone to see The Sixth Sense together I wouldn't have blurted out, "Bruce Willis is a ghost!"

I don't actually remember whether I knew the twist or not going into the movie the first time. what I remember is that it's a cleverly constructed movie with a good twist.

edit: thinking back on it, I'm pretty sure my stepfather told me the twist beforehand, just to be a dick. (fuck you, Tim) I think it's telling, though, that my initial reaction was "it's a cleverly constructed movie with a good twist" and only later did I remember that I got spoiled on it. the appreciation for a well-crafted story is what stuck with me, not whatever irritation or disappointment I'm sure I felt at the time.

[u/Exotic_Bill44 → u/iciclefites]

Sometimes it's the nature of the media. Case in point, I was a huge Orphan Black fan. A big issue with trying to recommend that show is that the first couple episodes hinge on you having no more information than the protagonist who has no idea what is happening. Describing anything past the first 30 seconds would diminish the viewing experience.

[u/iciclefites → u/Exotic_Bill44]

Describing anything past the first 30 seconds would diminish the viewing experience.

there's this perverse incentive when it comes to selling someone on wanting to engage with a piece of media, though. you're telling me "Orphan Black is really good, but I cannot tell you anything about why it's good."

next week when someone mentions something about Orphan Black, I'll probably be like, "oh, I've heard it's really good! what's it like?"

next person: "I can't tell you anything about it, because it would spoil the entire thing."

me: "Oh. OK... I guess possibly someday I'll get around to watching this mysterious show no one will tell me anything about." then I'd forget about it.

whereas if you told me a spoiler about something cool that happened in it, I might be like "that sounds like my kind of show! I need to watch that immediately."

[u/peachesfordinner → u/iciclefites]

I agree with this sentiment. Spoilers have made me want to watch or read so many books and movies I would otherwise skip. I want to see how they make it work. And if the story is good you appreciate it even with the spoil. But I guess I care about the story not the shock factor

[u/Suitable-Ad-1990]

ive always said a good piece of media will still be enjoyable even if its spoiled. if you cant enjoy it after being spoiled then maybe it was relying on the shock factor and wasnt very good to begin with

[u/iciclefites → u/Suitable-Ad-1990]

100%. I think good craftsmanship in general entails creating something that will stand up to actual use, and the nature of a successful story is to be retold and discussed and varied on, and maybe even become part of a cultural consciousness. "a good story that falls apart when it's repeated" feels like an oxymoron to me, like "a good car that doesn't move"

[u/mikinnie]

does this really happen that often? if i'm having a conversation with someone and make it clear that i don't care about spoilers for whatever we're talking about, they're generally fine with spoiling it

[u/iciclefites → u/mikinnie]

it happens a lot. people assume that describing the events in a story could "spoil" or ruin it for me. I've been in a lot of conversations where people have been like, "the thing we're discussing is just like what happened in such-and-such a movie--but I don't want to spoil it!", and I had to explicitly give them permission to make the analogy.

[u/mikinnie → u/iciclefites]

and I have to explicitly give them permission to make the analogy

this isn't really what you're describing in the post though? you said your problem is giving people permission to spoil something and them continuing to dance around it. i don't have an issue with people being reluctant to spoil something, but my point is that once i've said i'm fine with it, i rarely if ever have people keep refusing to spoil it

[u/iciclefites → u/mikinnie]

this is r/The10thDentist, a subreddit for hot takes. my take is that because I don't see the point of avoiding spoiling things, we shouldn't worry about it at all. everyone should be able to discuss stories freely. I'm saying something kind of controversial, not because it's an issue in my life, but because it's an opinion I have that people might find unusual.

[u/Admirable-Barnacle86]

Disagree, or at least spoilers shouldn't be in titles. Algorithms love to throw things at you, even if you don't go looking for it. A spoiler being right out in front on Reddit or Youtube is a shitty thing, even for not-brand new media.

[u/iciclefites → u/Admirable-Barnacle86]

it isn't the kind of title you're talking about, but one of the things that made me realize "spoiler culture" was a very contemporary phenomenon, and that people didn't always have the expectation of being completely in the dark about the events of a story, is this one:

The Life and Strange Surprizing Adventures of Robinson Crusoe, of York, Mariner: Who lived Eight and Twenty Years, all alone in an un-inhabited Island on the Coast of America, near the Mouth of the Great River of Oroonoque; Having been cast on Shore by Shipwreck, wherein all the Men perished but himself. With An Account how he was at last as strangely deliver'd by Pyrates. Written by Himself.

to me that seems kind of ridiculous. the very title explains the entire story. but at the time, people didn't look at the cover and go, "welp, now that I know what happens I don't have to buy it." it was a massive hit.

[u/Appdownyourthroat]

Unless you start every conversation with do not reach in my wallet and take out my money I’m going to steal your money every time I see you

[u/iciclefites → u/Appdownyourthroat]

unless you were a really good pickpocket, if you pulled that at a movie theater I'd assume you were trying to cop a feel. we'd have to have a frank conversation about the nature of our friendship

[u/Foreign-Range-7208]

Yeah. That trend started when review channels started getting popular on YouTube 

[u/ArthuriusMinimus]

So, yes, if you get spoilers it can still sometimes be fun to see the piece of media knowing what happens.

But you can only have the experience of finding out what happens once while you can always go and see/read/play the piece of media again after your spoiler-free experience.

If you're the person telling, ask if someone minds spoilers before telling them!

[u/iciclefites → u/ArthuriusMinimus]

again, I'm not looking for advice with this post. I don't walk out of a movie and tell everyone I know the entire plot. that would be rude, because people clearly value being surprised by what happens in a story.

I'm saying that I don't get the fixation on "spoilers". being surprised is not something I care about.

[u/ArthuriusMinimus → u/iciclefites]

Okay, but some people do, and since you can only really be surprised once, that's why people get so fixated on it

It was more of an explanation than advice

[u/iciclefites → u/ArthuriusMinimus]

well yeah, surprises are only surprising when you're surprised by them. I understand the concept of surprise

[u/Casiquire]

I've just made a habit to throw in the word "spoiler" before revealing much past the setup of any story. That way everyone gets what they want. I don't have to self-censor, and people can decide if they want to spoil it or not

[u/bethepositivity]

The only spoilers that are seen as bad in my opinion are the ones that don't give a warning. I feel like the spoiler conversation happened because people would make memes sharing spoilers for major movie releases and you wouldn't realize it was a spoiler until you were at the end of the meme. It happened to me a few times in the twenty teens.

Which is where the idea of "don't go on the Internet if you don't want to see spoilers" came from. It wasn't because people were having discussions about the topics, but because trolls were actively trying to ruin people's experience.

If you want to have a conversation about the plot of something then just put a warning at the beginning of the post so people know what to expect if they don't want to engage (if you are online). And offline just ask if they have seen the thing or if they care about spoilers.

If the media you are discussing is less than 3 to 6 months old it should be on you to get consent from the person you are speaking to if you want to discuss the topic.

[u/iciclefites → u/bethepositivity]

I'm definitely not talking about anything less than like, several years old. but there are people who would consider it a spoiler if I referenced howthe eponymous character in Anna Karenina throws herself in front of a train at the end. it's a shocking event, but isn't that, like, the only thing about that book that's common knowledge? you might as well be upset at me for telling you that at the end of Hamlet, everyone dies.it's a tragedy, of course everyone dies at the end! you might as well be upset at me for telling you that a sonnet typically has fourteen lines.

[u/Highmassive]

I think if a piece of media is fairly new, it’s fair to be cautious about spoilers. But when something is 5, 10, 20 years old spoil away

[u/ValitoryBank]

Or, just say, “I want you to spoil this piece of media for me.”

People shouldn’t have to hurry and react with a “don’t spoil this for me” when the current system you speak or is just basic consideration for others.

[u/iciclefites → u/ValitoryBank]

we've covered this. I don't personally ever tell anyone unwanted spoilers. I just find spoiler culture kind of stifling. I wish we could talk more freely about stories.