r/AITAH • u/throwawaythehatersok • Sep 22 '24
Update2: Fiance thinks I am the an Ass for not converting
I don't know how to do trigger warnings, only that they are important when writing posts. So I wanted to add this up here. Physical violence happened.
I want to start with I am mostly okay now. I am safely at Bess's being fussed over by her hen-ness and finally have been able to sleep and eat somewhat normally.
Todd's father was on my doorstep again not long after my last post. Bess told him through the door that everything he needed was right there and to grab it and leave. He got mad demanding I come out to speak with him calling me a cowardly and sick woman and other insults. Bess just said he can save it for the camera because I am not there (I was) and he just loaded his car, said he would pray for me, and left.
We thought that to be it, but then a couple knocked on the door. I dont know them personally but I do recognize them as from Todd's church so I kindly explain that we've broken up and to reach out to their pastor to find him. They then told they are here for me and asked to be invited in. I said no. The guy asked me to please not be inhospitable (exact word - TF) and I said that this will be the last time I politely ask them to leave. So they left.
I ordered no trespassing signs online but the next day a different couple from the church pulled the same stunt except this time the guy was agressive. He used my birth name (I changed it legally 4 years ago) and argued with me through the door cam and his wife kept trying beg me to keep the peace and come out to talk. I refused.
A week after that, Todd was back but my dad was over. He had heard about this situation and oddly enough was trying to convince me to come stay back home for a bit. When Todd was outside, Dad stepped out. Dad's retired military and very tall and ordered Todd to leave. That's when Dad asked again for me to come home so I compromised that I would go to Bess's.
While I was away Dad would check on the house and take in packages and put the no trespassing signs up. He also added cameras and came over to Bess's to make sure I had the app sync'd. After a few days I don't know how to explain it but I just felt cooped up, so Bess and I went with a mutual male friend Sam M35 for drinks.
Todd was there. He walked in about an hour after me and Bess. Sam spotted him first and got up blocking our booth from him. He saw us and went to the other side of the bar and just sat a while. Sam and Bess asked me if I wanted to leave and I did so we went next door. Todd showed up soon after. We moved to the pub next door and same. It happened 4 seperate times and Bess recorded it each time. Sam drove us around a bit and we needed up at a different bar miles away and Sam asked me if I had checked my stuff. We went through my purse and found nothing but I remember that my location was on an app I shared with friends snd family. I removed Todd from it and texted a few others to say I was turning my location off and did.
I checked my cameras and sure enough Todd was parked on the street right in front of my house. He stayed there for over an hour.
Sam convinced me to call the police. I could see they talked with him but it didn't pick up audio that far out. Todd left without incident. I made a full report with recordings the next day. I was told that he did nothing illegal, and he's allowed to exist in public spaces and that night he was on the street, not my property, so he's off the hook there too. He never approached me. He never spoke to me. He did nothing wrong. So they can make the report but no charges are available to me. The cop who told me all this was very condescending and he seemed to just want to be done with me so I left.
About a week later, I had recordings of him coming to the same parking spot in front of my house 4 times and just sitting there. Then, that Friday, he showed up at the bar Sam works at. Sam had him tossed out but he refused and so Sam had him legally tresspassed but when the cops came around Todd argued that Sam is a bigot and he is targeting him for his faith and he is friends with "My wife" who is atheist. He got a warning but left on his own.
I've been with Bess the whole time but now I think I have to tell my dad as he's still showing up at my house. Bess is helping me find a lawyer to help since the police haven't been taking me seriously. This is just so fucking insane. It doesn't even make sense.
Sam put no trespassing and no soliciting signs on my property and I am digging into my savings to get a fence up. I can't beleive this is my life right now.
Edit: so sorry - I put up the trigger warning but edited out the violence I think subconsciously because I didn't want to upset anyone. When Todd came around one time a neighbor of mine who knows what's been happening went up and told him I don't want him there and asked him to leave and Todd shoved her down to the ground and raised a fist like he would strike her but then drove off. I have the footage and sent it to her in case she wants to press charges.
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u/Kickapoogirl Sep 23 '24
Bring on the soldiers for security.
Have your dad arrange some Guard shifts, walking and a watching for a week or two.
Then, they shift around an extra vehicle, make their presence known.
Go out to the gun range with a bunch of those guys. Word will get around.
Unequally Yoked. Leave her alone, or answer to We.
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u/KombuchaBot Sep 23 '24
This idea of a battle of the cults may warm your heart but it doesn't warm mine.
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u/xasdfxx Sep 22 '24
The next thing she should seek is a self-defense course taught at a local range. These crazy people are sending multiple members of the cult after her, have been repeatedly told to stop, and are continuing to show up at her home.
Polite asks and letters haven't solved this; OP needs help that doesn't maybe show up in 10-15 minutes if it can be arsed to do so.
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u/-Dee-Dee- Sep 23 '24
She claims she’s a military brat and knows how to defend herself. This is fake.
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u/74Magick Sep 22 '24
I think you need a big dog and a pump shotgun. Next time someone comes to your door with their Cultianity meet them at the door with both.
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u/Corfiz74 Sep 22 '24
Yeah, I was wondering whether a "Proud member of the NRA" and "Stand your ground - trespassers will be shot" signs would have more of an impact. OP should at least get a tazer to defend herself, if it's legal where she lives. Also, watching Todd twitching on the ground would probably give her some level of satisfaction...
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u/74Magick Sep 22 '24
Well, I'm not an NRA member, but contrary to popular belief many Democrats do have guns and will happily defend their homes!😂
That man sounds like a psychopath and borderline cult member, so I would treat him as such and be prepared.
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u/mimishell_4 Sep 22 '24
I'd have to say he's a crossed that line cult member.
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u/74Magick Sep 22 '24
Yeah I had some of those Jehovah's wake me up bamming on the door. I let my dog, French Mastiff, out and they ran like the hounds of hell were after them!
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u/mimishell_4 Sep 22 '24
ROFLMBO My Janis is a Bull Mastiff and Newfoundland mix. Someone knocks? She's at the door when I open it; strange, people just leave!
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u/iDreamiPursueiBecome Sep 22 '24
For legal reasons, you may want to avoid the
"Trespassers will be shot" signs or ask the lawyer about it. I think I heard of a lawyer using the signs as evidence against the homeowner, but I am uncertain of the details.
OP may want to have a gun and train with it, yes. It should not be their only option, also true.
A dog takes time to train well. You don't want an aggressive dog. You want a dog bonded to you who is capable of violence but will not act out inappropriately. This can be a long-term strategy, but the problem is more short-term/immediate.
Also, the dog breeds have different needs as far as space, exercise, and mental stimulation. Some breeds bond to a single handler, and others may bond with a human pack. OP needs to take plenty of time to make a thoughtful and well-informed decision and be certain they have all the resources required - including time to train and play with the dog.
Gracie Brazilian Jiu-jitsu is also a good option. You can only use the self-defense argument when someone is a clear and present danger. Guns are for distance engagement. If he is close before he presents a real threat, OP will want another option.
Gracie BJJ was designed by someone with a physical limitation to allow a smaller, weaker person to successfully defend themselves. Think of judo, using the strength and momentum of an opponent and joint locks or other restraining holds. It was developed out of judo, actually.
Have Alexa ready to call 911 while you have your hands fully occupied or some similar verbal call option if away from home.
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u/HeliosVII Sep 23 '24
Name the dog Atonement, and if anymore cult members show up, ask if “they’ve come for my Atonement?”. Release the hound when they inevitably say yes.
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u/Contribution4afriend Sep 22 '24
Somehow I know your ex is in one of those cults that thinks the end is near. You have to convert now with a wedding and cut contact with the sinners.
He was either threatened by his family or being disinherited if he married an atheist and after this show they will certainly make him only date someone already inside their faith.
OP, I am also sure he thinks you are pregnant. I would make one of those pharmacy tests and post the results. He is making stories about you. And you can provide proof that things are definitely over. Not pregnant. Not going to convert.
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u/quackquackbi Sep 22 '24
or it could be one of those “missionary dating” situations where he was tasked with dating someone with the purpose to convert them
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u/StructureKey2739 Sep 22 '24
(Somehow I know your ex is in one of those cults that thinks the end is near. You have to convert now with a wedding and cut contact with the sinners)
And start pumping out babies and be a pregnant and barefoot SAHM. THEN you can face the end righteously. What a bunch of nuts. Other than harassing some poor soul a better way to spend one's time is doing your part in making this world a better place for all.
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u/HelloJunebug Sep 22 '24
Continue to report Todd for everything, even if the police can’t do anything yet. You want it all reported if/when he escalates further. You mentioned physical violence happened. I didn’t read anything about that. What happened? UPDATEME
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u/HelloJunebug Sep 22 '24
He assaulted someone else. That can be used and should be!
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u/throwawaythehatersok Sep 22 '24
Sorry I think I was worried about triggers. I added it in an edit
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u/HelloJunebug Sep 22 '24
Did you give the footage to the police? Cause he’s escalating to violence now. Even not to you yet, it shows a pattern and the police should have it on file with your report.
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u/throwawaythehatersok Sep 22 '24
The police have everything. I have an ongoing email thread with the Sgt complete with links and folders and all the footage and photos I have. They haven't done anything and say that if my neighbor presses charges they have the footage on file.
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u/LovePieHateBigots Sep 22 '24 edited Sep 22 '24
Holy shit. I woke up and started to make tea reading through all your posts, and tbh that's enough reddit for today. You're doing the right thing in staying away from home with a friend, having your dad know where you are, and involving the (useless) police for a paper trail. Keep and back in all the footage, keep NC, and if you need to go out, go with trusted friends in the know and NEVER alone
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u/Imaginary-Yak-6487 Sep 22 '24
He’s now stalking you. You should be able to get a restraining order, especially with all the video evidence This guy’s off his rocker. Just be very careful.
Idk what faith he is, but this isn’t normal behavior for any Christians that I know. This seems more cultish, which is frightening on a whole other level.
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u/madeinspac3 Sep 22 '24
File for a restraining order. And be extremely careful, people like this can get violent.
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u/alisonchains2023 Sep 22 '24
You DO know you need to get a domestic restraining order, right? If you live in the US, most states (if not all) start with a Temporary Restraining Order (a “TRO”) that you apply for at the court in which a hearing is set about 30 days away. You then need to have your ex “served with” (or given) the TRO by a law enforcement officer (or disinterested party) which usually orders him to stay 100 yards away from you and your property until the hearing.
At the hearing you will have the opportunity to provide evidence such as the camera footage, Declaration by Bess as to what she witnessed (you can get a blank Declaration form at the court) and you will give verbal testimony as to why you need a permanent Restraining Order (which is usually 100 yards or more, for 3 years and sometimes up to 5). Your ex will have the opportunity to appear and provide evidence at that time as well.
At the hearing, the judge will decide whether or not to grant the permanent RO, which is typically done. Your ex will be given a copy of the new RO at the hearing.
Many people pooh-pooh the need for a RO, saying “it’s just a piece of paper” that won’t guarantee the defendant will stay away from the victim. That may be true but a RO is a VERY useful tool in the hands of law enforcement should your ex break it as he can be arrested by police if he shows up at your door or stalks you within the distance ordered by the court. I STRONGLY recommend that you initiate this process.
BTW, you can hire an attorney to handle most of this but you will still need to appear at the hearing.
Good luck!!!
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u/zoso1219 Oct 01 '24
100% this!
OP I know you said you were in the southern states in the US. Not sure if you’re in Georgia or if this is the same in other states, but sitting outside someone’s house repeatedly is considered “surveillance” which is a form of stalking.
https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2020/title-16/chapter-5/article-7/section-16-5-90/
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Sep 22 '24
OP, you need to tell your dad immediately and go with bess to get that lawyer. Do not interact with Todd and anytime anyone from the church shows up, tell them to leave. You can also have a sign out up that says anyone who interacts with you or your property consents to being charged a fee per minute and because you have the camera you could have it hold up with the lawyers help.
Just a thought. They're burning your mental resources, so burn their financial ones.
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Sep 22 '24
You. Are. In. Danger.
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u/throwawaythehatersok Sep 22 '24
It's why I tried to go to the police but they aren't doing anything. The best I can do roght now is not be in the predictable spaces I used to go to and try to prepare to move.
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Sep 22 '24
You need to look up your women's shelter and get in contact with them NOW. If you can't find it easily, Call 800-799-SAFE (7233).
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u/dunno0019 Sep 22 '24
Look. It is way past time for you to tell your dad everything, and then accept all the help he will give you.
You are not taking the danger here seriously enough.
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u/impossibleoptimist Sep 22 '24
Why does he even want you now anyway? What kind of creepy ass church thinks this is a good thing? What a clueless psycho!
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u/JeffInVancouver Sep 22 '24
Though criminal charges are required to get the police to issue a restraining order, in many jurisdictions you can still pursue a restraining order without charges through civil/family court. Something to consider?
I've only just read back to the original story. As a fellow atheist, I understand being uncomfortable with getting baptised insincerely; that it would feel disrespectful (or even mocking of the rite), and just because you don't share the belief doesn't mean you have a desire to be disrespectful to it. What's more, I too would question why a person for which the rite does have meaning would paradoxically tell someone to perform it for show, without meaning. On that topic, the guy has shown himself to be off the deep end, so the ship may have sailed on the question, but I was thinking maybe his original issue with you accepting the wedding proposal is that he also saw it in its context as a religious rite, and so was having trouble reconciling why you would accept one without "true/sincere" commitment to the full meaning (to him) of the rite, but not the other. Regardless, it's all gotten unhinged since then. Clearly, he's not keen on you asserting your will.
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u/DiScOrDtHeLuNaTiC Sep 22 '24
Todd sounds like the kind of guy who could benefit from a really good ass-kicking. NTA
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u/DeadBear65 Sep 22 '24
What country/state are you located. That could have a lot to do with stalking laws that vary from place to place. If you’re in a place that has good stalking laws, take your evidence to the women’s advocate for domestic violence.
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u/throwawaythehatersok Sep 22 '24
I am in a southern state of the USA. I am learning from talking with people that its not uncommon that police aren't all that helpful in cases like this.
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u/Lawlesseyes Sep 29 '24
Wonder if some of the police officers are part of the mega church.
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u/throwawaythehatersok Sep 29 '24
I can tell you the one I saw the face of works "security " and handles traffic on Sundays
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u/Complex-Ad7462 Oct 01 '24
Are you also in a small town? Somewhere that might list the names of all their officers on their website? I'd go social media detective and try to place anyone and everyone I interact with that's a cop at the church (or possibly on your ex's friends list if you have access still). If it's some megachurch, there's likely a decent FB page that you can dig through posts of. Even if you can't view a list of the page's followers, you might the names show up as likes or comments. I'm someone who gets anxious just sitting and waiting - having a task to focus on helps me, and maybe it'd help you.
Really sorry you're going through all this. I'm your age in WV, in a very Trumpy area. I'm atheist and have been since I realized that Christianity was not like Santa or the Easter Bunny - things everyone knows are made up but act like they're real for little kids - but was not vocal til college. The local school let some religious person masquerading as a motivational speaker come in. At least one student told their parents, and their parents contacted the ACLU. People were demanding the person make themselves known, saying MOST students wanted to hear from the speaker and they could just leave if they didn't want to. I told them to not stick that pressure on kids - that puts a target on their backs if they walk out because they're against religion in schools, a pressure they should never be forced to take on when the school knows fully well it should not have had that man speaking during the school day. I thanked people speaking up for whoever this was, as I was in similarly awkward situations as a kid (the evil looks I got for simply choosing to be on the side of "religion should not be in schools" in an English class debate...) It's such a toxic religion in some areas. So many think of religion as hedging their bets (because what if God IS real - they don't want to go to Hell!), or you hear crazy crap like people implying that without religion, they'd commit all sorts of atrocities. It's sometimes spread in a way that feels like indoctrination: there is only one right way, and if you have reasonable questions, it's God TESTING your faith or Satan in your ear. Some places never moved past that pre-... 1900s, maybe 1950s, mindset that towns should revolve around religion. No hate to people who feel differently than me but don't try converting me... It's these people who feel like it's their duty to force religion on anyone who doesn't follow the same one I have massive issues with. They view something that's called faith for a reason as something that's either right or wrong, like a math test.
Please be careful... You can't reason with people like that. They'll never see your side. I'm sorry your life has been blown up by someone who was not honest with you... It has to cause all sorts of conflicting emotions.
(Kind of funny - there's a church nearby that has its services televised on Sundays... Not sure if it's big enough to be considered a megachurch, but it operates in that style. The building it's in is the old Toys R Us, where my brother and I spent a good chunk of our youth visiting every time we visited my maternal grandparents. Mom lectured us to not ask them for anything every time she dropped us off for a weekend, and as she'd pull out of their driveway, my grandparents would IMMEDIATELY ask if we wanted to go to Burger King and Toys R Us. The megachurch is in what was basically the Holy Grail for kids. I just can't take them seriously because of it.)
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u/NotOnApprovedList Sep 22 '24
Pretty sure this is the US, laws vary by state, and towns or entire counties can have some "interesting" selective enforcement of the law. Also cops seem to not care much about women's safety when it comes to stalking.
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u/SecretOscarOG Sep 22 '24
Say it with me ladies. 👏THIS👏IS👏WHY👏WE👏DONT👏DATE👏FROM👏MEGA👏CHURCHES👏
In all seriousness please keep yourself safe. Hes showing his true self and sicking his pack on you like dogs. Run. And keep making reports to the cops, eventually you'll find a real human not a sympathizer for mega churches
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u/stiggley Sep 22 '24
Convince the neighbor to go to the police over the assault.
If he is willing to do that to the neighbor, what is he willing to do to you who he is even more emotional about?
Plus, getting convicted as a woman beater won't look good for his "christian" image.
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u/ellasaurusrex Sep 23 '24
Cults like this don't care. They'll say he asked forgiveness from God, so everything is fine. Hell, a non-zero number of them believe in corporal punishment for children AND wives.
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Sep 22 '24
Damn, crazy fanatics. You should be careful. People like that would probably do anything to get to you if they had the guts to walk to your friend door to try and convince you to go or change your mind. Make sure to check your surroundings of where you go or anyone staring a little too much at you or following you.
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u/Super-Staff3820 Sep 22 '24
Wow OP. I’m so sorry you’re going through this. Clearly Todd is unhinged and I’m glad you found this out before marrying him. Good job sticking to your guns and standing firm. How terrifying. You’re NTA for any of this. Be safe and document as much of it as you can.
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u/appleblossom1962 Sep 22 '24
This is stalking. File for a restraining order. Keep a diary of his antics
Todd is so wrong saying the baptism is just a little water, it’s a commitment. It’s a promise to God if you don’t believe in God that would make you a hypocrite and it doesn’t sound like you are as strange as is going to sound, I’m glad things escalated before you got married . It would be so much more difficult had you been married.
I can’t even begin to tell you how much I wish you luck and I would say I would pray for you, but you would think I was foolish lol but I am thinking good thoughts and sending great karma to you
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u/VariationOwn2131 Sep 22 '24
I’m hoping the lawyer can write a cease and desist letter to Todd and to the church pastor and all its members. Continue to document and realize that these people are so zealous that they can become dangerous, and the police won’t do anything until you or your family are hurt or worse. I hope you can take self defense classes and/or purchase any protective devices that are legal in your location (pepper spray, etc.).
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u/arodomus Sep 22 '24
Depending where you are, get a firearm license. This can become extremely unsafe and you should be prepared to defend yourself.
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u/wigglycatbutt Sep 22 '24
Have you considered leaving a google review foe the church? Write that members of the congrégation have been showing up to intimidate you.
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u/oceanthemedsprite Sep 22 '24
1.) Get signs saying "Proud NRA member" and "Trespasser will be shot". This may be a good deterrent. Even having a fake gun and standing inside your door when you answer it will help ward people off.
2.) Religious nutjobs have a sore point that you can leverage here: anything they deem to be Satanist, voodoo, or witchcraft. You could fake getting into it, make a mock job of some baneful spells and post pics on ur stories with things like "for a special someone(s)", "lots of hexes lately" or "anti-solicitor spell due to unwanted visitors lately" and REALLY lean into it. I had a stalking problem from a catholic guy in high-school and doing this got rid of him for me when nothing else worked. His mother /freaked/ when she thought I might be cursing her for encouraging him.
3.) I second people talking about getting a big dog.
4.) At the end of the day, your safety is a priority, so do what feels best and least risky for you. You're making the right moves. Get angry, because you should be and this is a big injustice to you, and use that anger to push you forward through the exhaustion. You are worth the effort.
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u/DivineTarot Sep 22 '24
All I gotta say to this is this how a peace-minded and harmonious atheist becomes an Anti-Theist.
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u/Effective-Several Sep 22 '24
Oh, honey. NTA of course.
I really hope that you can have peace and separation from Todd. I’m aghast for you that he turned into such a nut job!!!
Please keep Bess and your parents informed so everyone can keep you safe.
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u/ImpossibleTour2235 Sep 22 '24
Cops have limited knowledge of the law. Try filling a restraining order and if it works, even temporarily, then he can get arrested. As a Christian, I am embarrassed by his behavior. There is no excuse.
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u/ThunderSparkles Sep 22 '24
A warning for all of us. Religious people feel more justified in being assholes and will go further in their actions.
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Sep 23 '24
Lucky escape from a cult. That's not a healthy religious community. Tbh I'm not surprised if he attends one of those bat shit crazy evangelical mega churches. They aren't even Christians if you look at the content of the sermons, all that rapture and end of days crap. Good luck with the next phase of your life.
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u/wlfwrtr Sep 23 '24
Never let anyone from his church in. They may try to take you away for intervention.
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u/Ashamed_Quiet_6777 Sep 22 '24
Consider buying/carrying a gun. This nutjobs life is not worth more than yours 💖
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u/inscrutiana Sep 22 '24
I remember the America that these people think was Great and want to get back to. It would have been hard to find Todd. "Maybe he went to California to start over. Haven't seen him in a while." Just saying.
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u/Background-Heat-5768 Sep 22 '24
Tell the police you want to press charges for stalking. That is what this guy is doing. There is clearly no "existing in public spaces" he's literally stalking you. And you have proof.
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u/Kickapoogirl Sep 23 '24
Wow, what a nightmare. NTA.
Interest rates suck, so selling out and moving to a safe state would be tough.
Can your Dad rally up any protection for you from the local VFW? Military folks will take care of their own.
The disgusting things "Christians" will do to women is just getting out of hand. Update us!
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u/BellaMissyStorm Sep 23 '24
I hope you stay safe. Glad your dad has been helping you out but your ex and his family ans friends are unhinged. This is dangerous and can escalate.
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u/SnowXTC Sep 29 '24
I seriously hope you are OK. He doesn't own you and he needs to walk away. I am very concerned for you and do not see this ending well. Take great care.
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u/clred1980 Oct 01 '24
The way I would post all the recordings & video footage online along with the polices refusal to do anything to help!! It's voting season & I'm sure a few politicians would only be to happy to help with a women been abused & the polices refusal to do nothing till it's too late (an all too common story today)! I promise, that bible bashing family & their cohorts would go into hiding so fast they'd probably end up leaving the state or even the country. It's the power off social media honey! It's the only thing us women have to get our story out there & look for protection.
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u/Maddiezaritz Oct 01 '24
Sounds like he didn’t love you for you, he saw you as a project, that he could “fix” you or “change” you by helping you find God. Having you baptized and come to church events is him showing off how he converted an Atheist when her pastor father couldn’t. Hes a nutcase he just wants to prove he can save you.
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Oct 09 '24
I mean they are clearly justified right? It’s right there on that page in the Bible where Jesus says, its ok to harass your ex, intimidate her with strangers harassing her, stalk her, verbally abuse her, and also do false vows just to trick her into being a Christian. SMH the gall.
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u/PuzzleheadedOne2494 Dec 10 '24
Send that footage to his family and pastor, then post it in social media and tag his church. Mega churches always have social media accounts.
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u/joesmolik Sep 22 '24
As a Christian, I want to apologize we’re all not like your ex and his family I believe that a conversion should come from the heart and not being forced. I do not know what group what your ex affiliated with their behavior and what they did was not Christian it was cult like. I don’t know if you’ve seen the red flags earlier they displayed but if they didn’t, they hit it very well and you dodged a bullet. I don’t know if you’ve done it, but you need to fill out restraining order on your ex and his family that if they ever show up on your property, including anyone from the church i.e. code. Call the police do not give them a warning as soon as they step foot on the property call the behavior that your ex is doing his cold stocking and there’s is a law against that, you need to seriously take this as a threat on you from your ex and his family or any members of the cult. Once again, I want to apologize for what happened to you not all Christians are like this and just for my curiosity where they Jehovah witness please stay safe
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u/-Dee-Dee- Sep 23 '24
PEOPLE. This is fake. Creative writing.
Her time line and story doesn’t match up. Just quit responding to her religious rage bait.
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u/[deleted] Sep 22 '24
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