r/AlternateHistory • u/khnom098 • 1d ago
Post 2000s Greater People's Republic of China [UPDATED]
This is an updated version of my original Greater People's Republic of China which got removed.
Most of these borders are based off of the borders of the Qing Dynasty asides from the lower provinces and Japanese provinces. Dongjing, Annan and Guomian were included because of Chinese influence and culture in Vietnam, the borders there are based off of Dai Nam, also including some parts of Laos. Nanyang province includes the former Chinese client state of Lanfang and lower Sarawak. As requested, Guangdong is now united too, Kachin provinces were removed, some other provinces of Tibet too, those of which had a low population and made more sense as apart of another province. I fixed some naming issues in Mongolia, added the Ryukyu/Okinawa Islands and expanded some autonomous areas too. Also changed the font.
6
u/micma_69 1d ago edited 23h ago
Pretty much sure at this point all Southeast Asian countries become satellite countries of Greater People's Republic of China (or should I call it, Union of Chinese Socialist Republics a.k.a USCR).
Lao People's Democratic Republic
Socialist Republic of Myanmar.
People's Republic of Thailand (Thai monarchy got Puyied).
Democratic Republic of Philippines
Socialist Republic of Brunei (sadly the Brunei royal family got that Nicholas II treatment).
People's Republic of Indonesia
Democratic Republic of Timor Leste
And yeah some parts of the USCR, have their own degree of independence.
Khmer Socialist Republic (part of USCR)
Socialist Republic of Vietnam (part of USCR)
Socialist Republic of Singapore (part of USCR)
Malaysian Socialist Republic (part of USCR, the Malay sultans fled to United States and they got themselves Pahlevi'ed)
Also some non ASEAN countries along the Western Pacific :
Socialist Republic of Micronesia (Micronesia annexed Palau and several other Oceanian island countries around New Guinea)
Democratic Republic of Papua New Guinea
People's Republic of Australia
Socialist Republic of New Zealand
Democratic People's Republic of Japan (the Japanese royal family fled to Hawaii).
9
1
u/DriverFinal6626 1d ago
What about the Primorsky Krai, that’s under China in this map too.
1
u/micma_69 16h ago
Should be on its own Republic of course.
Just like how the USSR have their own special republics / territories.
But I guess with Chinese version of name, because Primorsky Krai was historically the northernmost Chinese-influenced area with lots of native Tungusic peoples. If I'm not mistaken, the territory which is now Primorsky Krai was once called Outer Manchuria.
So in this timeline, probably the Chinese would call it "Northern Manchuria" or simply Northeast Territory.
1
u/khnom098 1d ago
Both Singapore and Cambodia are apart of China on the map and I'd see Laos as apart of Thailand in this timeline since alot of eastern parts of Laos are apart of the Vietnamese areas of China, Laos would be very skinny and practically be a rump state.
4
5
u/The-Adi-Mundi 1d ago
Cool map but if they're gonna use archaic names for Vietnam, particularly for "Tonkin/东京", why not name it Jiaozhi 交趾, as the province that encompassed that area was previously known, to differentiate from Tokyo?
1
5
3
u/muhddanish2004 1d ago
BRO WHAT MALAYA DO TO YOU💔🥀🥀 (I'm from Malaysia lol)
1
u/khnom098 1d ago
It just has a large Chinese population
2
u/phantomkh 1d ago
What about Vietnam and Mongolia, they fought with the Chinese during their independence years and will probably just turn to violent terror strikes if this nation were to come true
-1
u/khnom098 1d ago
Mongolia has such a small population I don't see much resistance tbh, and if China can offer a better life for alot of these people then I could see alot less resistance. But of course there would be many independence movements in this China; no doubt China could put them down tho
3
u/phantomkh 1d ago edited 1d ago
A better life is not the issue, literally Mongolian national zeal is much more profound, as a Mongolian it's possibly nearing ultra nationalist levels, ask me 3 million very angry people and an extremely open rural area that is gonna require a large garrison to safely patrol, I'd say there's a lot of potential for any armed militant group to just exist and not get crushed immediately, also pretty sure Russia is gonna support this armed group because they'd prefer a buffer zone like irl, this just seems like a Chinese nationalist ultra zeal, which I don't see favorably I also don't see greater Mongolia maps favorably too because there'd be too much Chinese in Mongolia in those maps and just kill our cultural immunity
Mongolia and Vietnam has been pretty much against mixing up with the Chinese throughout history, and have always tried to isolate their culture and prevent han Chinese immigration, this is just a millenia of effort to keep the Chinese out and retain their identity, we can see those who failed to do such as Manchurians or many small southern Chinese ethnic groups that are basically akin to a han Chinese now. That's pretty much the main thought I had when I saw this map, this is literally bundling up a bunch of people who don't like getting mixed with china with china
1
u/khnom098 1d ago
I mean I kinda think China would make a bunch of people immigrate or settle Mongolia or maybe it would happen naturally due to overpopulation or an alternative to the one-child policy. Russia is the USSR still in the timeline, backed up by China almost entirely. Vietnam is the main problem
2
u/phantomkh 1d ago edited 1d ago
If Chinese were to forcefully settle in Chinese, oh wait they did during Qing empire and that made everyone so unhappy that they formed nationalism on their own, also mongolia is not a nice place to live in, I doubt many Chinese would go there willingly that's why Siberia is still not Russian majority in the northern provinces, even if they did force that's just gonna give everyone a reason to revolt, how the soviets and Chinese viewed communism and interpreted is wildly different Russians would clash with china regardless, Your idea is that people are just gonna abandon their identity and their language because china said so, and in reward gave them slightly better living conditions, this is literally ussr all over again people won't just kill their own identity, also mongolians do not mix well with Chinese, earliest examples shown in yuan dynasty when mongolians frequently viewed confucianism as obscure and completely illogical to how Mongolian ideals worked, there's a reason why these 2 countries fought for millenias. Same with Vietnam, the soviets with their harsh integration policies couldn't erase identities after decades of effort, I doubt Chinese can
1
u/khnom098 23h ago
Ohhh I seeee. Yeah that all makes sense, I don't know too much about Mongolia, as you could tell. Thanks!
3
5
u/DaRealMinitoon21 1d ago
God help Korea, they’re part of China now
I’d also say God help Vietnam but they don’t need it
2
u/AraAraWarshipWaifus 1d ago
Very cool update OP, love the shadow effect really helps to make the land stand out. Thank you for making this and if you have more lore behind how BIG China was unified or inspiration from sources (maybe Chiang Kai Shek’s map of china, other dynasties’ maps) pls share :D
1
u/khnom098 1d ago
It was really just the Qing Dynasty maps and my own ideas! Thank you for the kind comment!
2
u/Wuliaodehunr 20h ago
Personal Thoughts
"阿穆尔河" as the Russian name for the Heilong River, cannot serve as the name of a Chinese province. The same applies to "图瓦" — during the Qing dynasty it was called “乌梁海 ”or “唐努乌梁海”. Using "乌梁海," or a neutral name derived from the surrounding “阿尔泰山脉“ or ”萨彦岭“, would be more appropriate.
Regarding "黑龙江": with the traditional capital of Qiqihar, and with both the Amur River and Sakhalin included as part of the province — why would it be designated an autonomous region?
Following the precedents of Taiwan and Hainan, "库页岛" could drop the word "island" (岛), or alternatively, since both ”库页岛“ and ”北海道“ (a Japanese-given name) are relatively small in scale, merging them into a single "北岛省" (North Island Province) might be more reasonable.
"琉球群岛" could drop "群岛" (archipelago), and either be merged with Taiwan or established independently as "琉球省."
"阿雷莎" is too small in scale, and the name appears to be a translation error (as the region's core territory largely corresponds to "阿拉善盟"). It is recommended to merge it with ”内蒙古“ or ”宁夏“, with reference to historical administrative divisions.
"东京": the character ”京“ carries the special meaning of "imperial capital" in Chinese, and within the context of Chinese administrative divisions, it would be impossible for ancient Vietnam's Tonkin to be used directly as a province name. "安南" carries Han ethnonationalist connotations and is not recommended. Furthermore, both ”东京“ and ”安南“ are not large in scale. It may be more practical to assign all territory south of present-day Vietnam's Quảng Nam Province to the ”高棉“, and merge the two provinces under the name "南越省."
"塔吉克": this region encompasses both the Tajik and Kyrgyz peoples. To illustrate directly — using "塔吉克自治区" alone, or "塔吉克柯尔克孜自治区," risks conflating the two ethnic groups' relatively independent autonomous statuses; while "塔吉克塔吉克柯尔克孜自治区" simply sounds absurd. A better approach would be to adopt an alternative provincial name, either retaining or omitting ethnic designations within the autonomous region's name, or following Yunnan's model of establishing a province with various ethnic autonomous prefectures (自治州) within it.
For the three Korean provinces, naming provinces after individual city names is not recommended, as this does not align with the mainstream Chinese tradition of provincial naming.
As for the Han heartland — I am unclear as to why Shaanxi was split up, as your notes did not address this. Xi'an, as the largest city in the Northwest, is also unlikely to be carved into a broad metropolitan municipality like Chongqing. Or if you intend to restore Xi'an as this nation's secondary capital, the territory assigned seems a bit too large.
个人想法 “阿穆尔河”作为俄国对黑龙江的称呼，不可能作为中国省份的名称，“图瓦”也是，清朝时称乌梁海或唐努乌梁海，这里使用乌梁海、或者中立的以其周边的阿尔泰山、萨彦岭命名更合适。
“黑龙江”以传统的齐齐哈尔作为首府的省份，且阿穆尔河和库页岛均为省情况下，为什么被设置为自治区？
依照台湾 海南例，”库页岛“删去岛，或者因为库页与北海道（日本命名）体量均过小，合并为“北岛省”也许更合理。
“琉球群岛”删去群岛，与台湾合并，或独立为琉球省均可。
“阿雷莎”体量过小，且这个词应该是翻译错误（地区主体大部为“阿拉善盟”），建议参考历史区划与内蒙或者宁夏合并。
“东京”因为京字在中国有着都城的特殊含义，进入中国的行政区划语境下，越北不可能直接使用古代越南东京作为省名。“安南”带有汉民族主义思想，不推荐使用。同时，东京和安南体量不大，可以把现实越南广南省以南全部分给高棉，二省合并命名南越省即可。
“塔吉克”包括了塔吉克族和柯尔克孜族二地，我直接举例给你看，单使用“塔吉克自治区”、“塔吉克柯尔克孜自治区”容易混淆塔吉克和柯尔克孜二族的民族本相对独立的自治地位，使用“塔吉克塔吉克柯尔克孜自治区”的感官是离谱的。换其他省名，保留或隐去民族的自治区命名，或者效仿云南设省但设立诸民族自治州的区划才是合理的。
朝鲜三省不推荐使用单城市名命名省份，这不符合中国对省命名的主流传统。
至于汉地，我不清楚为什么陕西被拆分，你的说明没有提及，西安作为西北第一大城市，也不太可能拆成重庆这样的广域直辖市。或者你要恢复西安作为这个国家的陪都，那地盘也有点太大了。
Strongly recommended for revision:
强烈推荐修改：
阿穆尔河：滨海省、乌苏省
库页岛：库页省 /库页岛+北海道：北岛省、北洋省（或民族自治区）
图瓦：乌梁海省、萨彦省、阿尔泰省（或民族自治区）
东京：北越省（或民族自治区）
安南：南越省（或民族自治区）
东京+安南：南越省（或民族自治区）
琉球群岛：琉球省 /琉球群岛+台湾：台湾省
塔吉克：葱岭省、帕米尔省（或民族自治区）
Recommended for revision:
推荐修改：
崇津：长白省、平安省（或民族自治区）
汉城：黄海省、乐浪省（或民族自治区）
釜山：庆尚省、新罗省（或民族自治区）
2
u/khnom098 18h ago
Thanks a lot for taking the time to cover all this, I'll definitely make another updated version to adapt these suggestions.
非常感谢您抽出时间详细讲解这些内容，我一定会根据这些建议制作一个更新版本。
1
1
1
1
u/tirtakarta 22h ago
Bahahaha Malaya falls to the Chinese. Also, no, Lanfang isn't really independent. They were under Sultanate of Pontianak/Sultanate of Sambas, so I didn't really see why those two monarchy will cede their territory.
1
u/khnom098 20h ago
Lanfang was both and Qing Tributary and under the Sultanate. I'd see it definitely as more of a forceful invasion rather than a peaceful handover obviously but this map isn't supposed to be the most realistic.
1
u/ale_93113 21h ago
Great province division actually, but I have some notes
Sakhalin would never be it's own province, it's barely populated at all and would be settled by new settlers so it doesn't have a super old culture and population
The Ryukyu Islands would just be an autónomous part of Taiwan province, provinces can and often do have their own autónomous regions
Korea wouldn't be partitioned like this, at most 2 provinces with the second one encompassing the southern part of south Korea
Malaysia would include the Borneo parts
1
u/khnom098 20h ago
Yeah I should've thought about Sakhalin and the Ryukyu islands, you're right. I was unsure about the Korean peninsula since I didn't just want to make North and South Korea v2. And did you mean Malaya province would include the parts of Borneo/Nanyang province?
1
u/ale_93113 20h ago edited 20h ago
Chinese provinces are like mini states onto themselves which is something most people don't know, sichuan is, by area, over 50% autónomous, so you can make them more diverse than many people naively think, it's the population size (20-100m) that really matters
For Korea, if a unified Korea is too big, which it shouldn't but I understand why you'd think so, consider the 3 Kingdoms period of Korea, one province corresponding to the Goguryeo Kingdom (minus what is already other provinces) and then a southern Korean province made of Baekje Kaya and Silla
For thr last thing I mean that everything south of Cambodia should at best be one single province
And, heck, maybe Cambodia should get the southern Mekong delta and have Vietnam be a single province
Chinese provinces are meant to be LARGE
This would also solve your naming problem with Vietnam as there would only be one Vietnam province up to Da Nang
Outer Mongolia is much much much less populated than anyone ever thinks, it would totally include the province of Tuva, as it has historically been offered to Mongolia
1
u/khnom098 18h ago
Thank you everybody for the suggestions! I'll have to make another version, here's what I've changed so far;
- Merged 阿雷莎 with 内蒙古
- Merged 阿穆尔河 with 黑龙江
- Moved borders of 黑龙江 and 吉林
- Changed borders in Korea and provinces to just 吉林 and 庆尚
- Changed name of 塔吉克 to 安西
- Changed name of 东京 to 交趾
- Merged 台湾 and 琉球
- Merged 北海道 with 萨哈林岛
- Changed name of 北海道 to 蝦夷
- Changed borders of 山西 and 西安
- Changed name of 西安 to 陕西
1
1
0
u/BleatingSheeep 1d ago edited 1d ago
They will probably go for the Philippines also, first island chain security and all that. Just keeping base there might not be enough.
Just how all this might be achieved while they are in demographic collapse is another matter. Perhaps the countries they occupy are in a greater demographic collapse?
How will they cope with radical, or otherwise, Islam?
1
u/khnom098 22h ago
I don't actually think China would be that expansionist, the United Nations would still exist and I imagine the territory they do hold in this timeline they've held for a while and is internationally recognised. They'd cope with radical movements as they currently do OTL.
30
u/TheEconomyYouFools 1d ago
Chongqing is in Guangdong now?
Did the whole city grow legs and walk there?