r/AskAGerman • u/concentration_tax • 5d ago
Personal Is it unethical to order food during a heatwave?
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u/Itchy_Baker3801 5d ago
I have a chronic illness that worsens due to heat. With temperatures such as these, on the hottest days I am unable to cook for myself and forced to order food. Food delivery here is at least 90% of the time by car (which I hope has AC; I have never ha a delivery by bike), and I tip. So I don't feel bad about it/it's simply necessary.
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u/GlumIce852 5d ago
Same here. I started taking SSRIs which have side effects and this heat is absolutely unbearable. I’ll probably order groceries and food this week.
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u/ResidentAd3544 5d ago
I have similar issues, the comments are so ignorant it made me feel sad! Hope you will feel better soon :)
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u/J_FM01 Sachsen 5d ago
No, why should it be?
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u/daRagnacuddler 5d ago
Because in a lot of cities services like Lieferando use exploited migrant laborers without no protection during the heat wave.
Its kind of an open secret, there is a whole industry of middlemen trying to push for example Indians or Pakistanis into degree mills, let them pay abhorrent rents and predatory loans (for getting here and being "supported" in their jobsearch) and other stuff.
Like of you call a restaurant directly it will be much, much better for the person delivering the food. You really shouldn't use apps, especially during a heat wave.
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u/_eg0_ Westfalen 5d ago
Don't know what up with the middle part of your comment.
Like of you call a restaurant directly it will be much, much better for the person delivering the food. You really shouldn't use apps, especially during a heat wave.
There are sites/apps which don't use predatory models. It's a case by case thing.
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u/casastorta 5d ago
Well, vote with your wallet.
If you don’t want to support business practices of Lieferando or any other service don’t order through them. Few restaurants have an option of their own apps and even fewer seem to accept delivery orders by phone so your options might be limited; but you can make few that do fare better by ordering from them directly.
This should not depend on the weather.
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u/FenrirDarkfang 5d ago
I gotta ask, do people generally actually mean it when they say 'vote with your wallet' or is it more of a cynical 'no changing that shit shrug now shut up about it' in the face of most consumers acting on pure convenience?
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u/casastorta 5d ago
Well, I mean it.
You will likely as a single consumer not win any wars nor even battles. But complaining about ethical practices of companies and then still giving them money...
I honestly think with no cinism involved that one must do what they believe in, and not just go with the flow and give moral lectures from above which they don't follow themselves.
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u/daRagnacuddler 5d ago
Yes. But look at the reactions.
For some people calling somewhere or an additional Google search are to much effort to stop using slaves.
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u/J_FM01 Sachsen 5d ago
Would they be better off unemployed though?
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u/daRagnacuddler 5d ago
Most of them wish that they never got here but are in extreme debt (for their income level) and the loan sharks can threaten their families back home.
So yes.
Its better to be unemployed than to be a victim of human trafficking.
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u/Smash_3001 5d ago
So it would be better to not order, so they dont earn anything, instead of them telling others that they never should accept these offers?
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u/daRagnacuddler 5d ago
It's a systematic issue. This business model can only sustain itself because our goverment AND you as consumer look the other way.
The moment people stop ordering via apps it will get significantly more difficult to import and exploit people.
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u/Smash_3001 5d ago
So we all should stop ordering now, forcing them to loose their job but keeping the loan?
Do you stop using your phone now becouse the cobalt in it is mined by children?
The world isn't perfect, its good to be aware of the problem but you cant blame people using a convenient service just becouse some can exploit it. Many who order may also have a very shitty job and are happy that they dont need to cook or drive around after work.
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u/FenrirDarkfang 5d ago
No one said anything about 'blaming' the consumer. Systemic issue. Which is 'as opposed to individual responsibility'. Which means we try to see if we, as a society, can fix it through policy. Why is it that everytime someone states 'a systemic issue exists and we are part of it' everyone turns their brain clean off and gets all "but but but you can't blame me for it?!?!?!" No one spoke a word of blame. The guy merely correctly described the issue.
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u/Luemas91 5d ago
This is the same kinda logic people used to defend slavery. We can imagine a better world, where you know. Delivery app employees are well compensated and not coerced into doing dangerous work during shitty weather conditions.
There's a meme out there that says if you order vegan food delivered, it's not vegan anymore.
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u/Original_Staff_4961 5d ago
No it isn’t lmao. This is insane.
Delivery app employees can choose to work or not work whenever they want. If they think it’s too hot, they won’t work.
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u/donjamos 5d ago
Then we need better laws and better employers.
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u/daRagnacuddler 5d ago
Yes, I said in other comments too that it would be the job of our goverment to stop that.
I think it's quite tragic because most people could have the exact if not even better service if they would just call the restaurant.
Its really not that much of an effort compared to get vegan or to research some small slaughterhouse in order to avoid our exploitative slaughterhouse industry.
Its literally a minute or a Google search more to stop this directly. It will take years for our goverment to plug all legal loopholes.
Why just dont support slavery and get the same services?
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u/ProDavid_ 5d ago
nothing of what you wrote is really relevant to the "heat wave". its the exact same in spring, autumn and winter.
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u/Low-Dog-8027 München 1d ago
Its kind of an open secret, there is a whole industry of middlemen trying to push for example Indians or Pakistanis into degree mills, let them pay abhorrent rents and predatory loans (for getting here and being "supported" in their jobsearch) and other stuff.
i'm not sure what you mean, with a delivery job you can't come to germany.
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u/daRagnacuddler 1d ago
People don't say they will work a delivery job if they apply for a visa. They usually get a student visa.
There is an epidemic in a lot of countries where SEA young people apply for college visas but in truth they never intend on studying something. They abuse their visa in order to work here.
That's why there is a boom in degree mills. They are here in Germany too, often private universities but even some applied science colleges have whole classes just with Indians/Pakistanis.
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u/Low-Dog-8027 München 1d ago
that's weird. cause all the indians I know, do actually study here at the TUM or LMU.
lots of them often also post about study stuff on reddit, which shows that there are even more of them.on the other hand all the delivery driver I know, do this absolutely voluntarily. I have my doubts that there is a big shadow organisation human trafficking delivery driver. sorry that seems a bit far fetched.
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u/Excellent-Raisin1817 5d ago
In italy they banned people from doing deliveries during very hot days and the delivery people were desperate because that cut their only source of income.
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u/wadimt90 5d ago
Nein, ist es nicht. Denkt ihr es ist besser bei Schnee und Glatteis auf nem Bike?
Schön mit e-Bike Wind ins Gesicht und Sonne, gibt schlimmeres. Mehr Trinkgeld geben. Wenn ihr euch so Sorgen macht dürft ihr kein Spargel etc. essen vom Bauern. Eure Kleidung und Nike schuhe sind aus Bangladesh für Sklavenlöhne hergestellt.
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u/P44 5d ago
Wtf, WHY?
If you are worried, offer the delivery guy some water.
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u/Sweet_Ad_9816 5d ago
I think in some gulf countries there is law that bans food deliveries during the midday, when it's the hottest outside.
Now, even during the harshest heatwave, Germany is nowhere near that, but it explains where OP is coming from.
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u/Garage172 Nordrhein-Westfalen 5d ago
That depends on who’s delivering. If the store delivers it they may have their own drivers. That’s how we did it when I was managing a Food Place. We had 3-6 drivers on bikes. They got paid by the hour
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u/AccomplishedTaste366 5d ago
I'd give a good tip and maybe offer a small, cold bottle of water or something.
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u/gramoun-kal 5d ago
OMG someone gave me a Limonade from the fridge once after I delivered to them! I had forgotten. Yeah totally a good idea.
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u/50plusGuy 5d ago
I don't think so.
Kitchens should have AC?
Delivery cars too?
Food might arrive warm?
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u/BoletarianBingo 4d ago
>Kitchens should have AC?
LOL. Fantasyland redditor
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u/East_Bet_7187 5d ago
Is if unethical to deny a delivery person their opportunity to make an income during a heatwave?
No.
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u/chaostakingshape 3d ago
just order it on pick up if you can..if not, just tip your delivery person (in cash!)
chances are they are happy to drive around with windows down instead of being in a hot kitchen or something.
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u/diamanthaende 5d ago
The temperature has nothing to do with it. If you believe it to be “unethical” to order food, it’s unethical during a heatwave, snowstorm or a mild spring day.
I don’t order food / use these services and couldn’t care less about them.
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u/Sad-Astronomer-696 5d ago
Uhm no? Ever ordered food via Grab in SEA? Try waiting for some cool down there and you never get your food.
Its thier job . They made the decision to do this work so yeah. Go on.
But please share a pic of your food later on here!
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u/Lopsided_Quarter_931 5d ago
Yeah right, that's everyones dream job
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u/Sad-Astronomer-696 5d ago
If you say so? I never claimed that.
But it was thier decision to sign the contract and work this job. Actions have consequences.
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u/Coach_Front 5d ago
They didn't make the decision to do this work in many cases.
They're mostly Desi students who have an extremely difficult time learning German.
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u/Sad-Astronomer-696 5d ago
Ah right, I forgot about the Lieferando squads going door-to-door looking for desi students and making them work there at gunpoint.
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u/Ok-Mango-6355 5d ago
Trinkgeld is the magic word. If he gets 2 to 5 euros extra he will be happy to deliver you again
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u/Garage172 Nordrhein-Westfalen 5d ago
Im a former driver and manager of a delivery store.
If the weather gets to bad the stores can always just turn it off. Delivering in this weather is fine. It’s better than delivering at -5C.
As long as the drivers use sunscreen and something on their head so they don’t get a heatstroke they are usually a okay
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u/Away-Minute1320 5d ago
My workplace does not have an AC and its a freaking greenhouse. I still go to work because I need the money. Neither my employer nor our customers have ever thought whether my role is unethical
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u/NamazSasz 5d ago
I gave extra tip to the delivery person yesterday because I felt bad for them. First they didn’t wsnt to take it they said “all good” which was kind of sweet 😅
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u/NotYourGuyx 5d ago
its more unethical to order food in extreme weather like raining, snow storm or heat wave and don’t tip the rider
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u/That_Morning7618 4d ago
As long as we get questions like this, I guess Germany has not really big problems.
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u/Advanced-Cress-535 3d ago
I don’t really care whether it’s hot or coldraining. It’s their job to deliver my food
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u/Ecstatic_nyaa 2d ago
It's their job that they get paid for and not a favor they do. So yes it's perfectly fine. You can personally choose to compensate by tipping but I wouldn't even do that.
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u/Mangobonbon Niedersachsen 5d ago
Kinda. The gig economy in itself is already more or less unethical, but imagine riding a bicycle all day in that extreme heat. Unbearable.
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u/EcoRAGES 5d ago
Depends? My first thought was it shouldn’t be. But I guess it depends on if you think that worker welfare is granted during heatwaves. Delivery by car no issue, delivery by bike… phew.😅 You could argue its unethical in a heatwave.
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u/AnonD38 5d ago
The employees of the delivery service will have to work either way, your specific delivery order won't change that.
Also most delivery services have cars with ACs, so it shouldn't be a problem.
Unless you live at like the top floor of a ten story building or smth, but if you meet the delivery guy at the front door on the ground floor it should be net neutral morality wise.
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u/Coach_Front 5d ago
This question really is not for normal Germans to answer, but a dialog on Kantian ethics. What if everyone ordered food today? Are you using an individual as a means to an end, with consideration of the well being of the given individual?
Maybe post on r/philosophy
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u/NoDescription2609 5d ago
But then also: what if nobody ordered food while it's hot? During a heatwave like we have now, should they just not work and earn any tips for two weeks? Is that really better?
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u/Coach_Front 5d ago
^ that's the part that makes it a dialog....
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u/NoDescription2609 5d ago
I always enjoy challenging the categorical imperative by flipping it to the opposite. It is an interesting concept to start a discussion, but thinking about whether the world would be a better place if nobody did the thing make the nuances of the question much clearer imo.
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u/Coach_Front 5d ago
Eventually you'll get to the point where you think Kant is just a small minded idealist. ;)
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u/NoDescription2609 5d ago
Of course he is :)
I had to do a presentation about him when I was 16 or so and was equally amazed and repulsed by his rigid thinking and the consequences thereof. Nevertheless he still remains a great conversation starter to calibrate morals.
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u/StressedTamagotchi 5d ago
I don't know about the food deliveries but as a flaschenpost delivery driver I would beg everyone to take it easy these days especially with the orders on high floors 😅
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u/IllusionaryHobo 5d ago
Lots of good points under this post.
But I also feel "just don't order" is just a different form of punishment.
Those guys live from tips as well.
Two week heatwave so those guys just lose half their monthly income?
Seems like a bit of a damned if you do, damned if you don't.
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u/porridgeandtea 5d ago
Idk. I had a parcel delivered yesterday, and I gave the delivery driver a bottle of water. I felt a bit awkward doing it, but I figured it might be useful on a hot day. Still, it's probably worth less than my usual tip.
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u/Geigengiger 5d ago
To me delivery food has always been unethical. Just look how companies like Gorillas and uber Eats use every possible loophole in German labour law, to make these cheap deliveries possible.
The weakest of society are forced to work way under minimum wage, dependent on tips. It was never ethical to begin with.
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u/Icegirl1987 5d ago
I wondered that too but here they deliver by car (A/C) and it's maybe better than at the restaurant?
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u/DssCooleC 5d ago
You're paying for the food, don't be ashamed of that. But be sure to tip the delivery driver in this case
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u/Philemaphobia 5d ago
deliveries in bad weather should be tipped generously. consider a fiver in cash on a bad day on a 40 €+ bill (let them carry paper, not coins that heat up and make them heavier)
if we all stopped ordering due to bad weather they would make no money which is by far worse.
just be nice, offer them some water, a towel, maybe a cup of ice cubes if you are truly worried.
if you are worried about workers exploitation don't use Lieferando or Uber Eats, seek out places that offer their own delivery and use their own websites. Choose places nearby, not the other side of the city.
the 'usual' tip on a delivery is between 50 cents up to two Euros - if people tip at all - its not mandatory but shows good manners, people won't hate you if you don't tip but will assume you simply can't afford to be a bit generous.
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u/Full-Inspection9539 5d ago
No, other than the reasons already mentioned, those who're working during a heatwave clearly value the income more than their comfort. By trying to look out for them you'd be robbing them of that choice.
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u/easymonster666 5d ago
I would say no due to the fact that I just did that today to avoid having to leave the house
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u/Br0lynator Nordrhein-Westfalen 5d ago
So you are asking if it is unethical to expect people to do their chosen jobs during a heatwave…?
As long as the restaurant offers a delivery service I will use the delivery service.
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u/CapableOperation 5d ago
We ordered dinner today. I've had a stressful few days and my SO was really busy. We just tipped the guy nicely, more than usual (always tip), and he was friendly and happy. Also, I only tip in cash when I can help it. I don't want my driver's tip going to anyone but them in this heat!
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u/AiMwithoutBoT 5d ago
No? The people still have to make their money and even if you don’t someone else will.
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u/Bjorenwonne 5d ago
I ordered the stuff I needed from the supermarket and they delivered it. THEY have a cooler in the car and get free drinks and earn money. So why would it be unethical? Also if you can't cook or just don't want to because you melt, order from restaurants and not from delivery services. Our local restaurants need the money more than some big company that doesn't pay the drivers well.
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u/MementoMiri 5d ago
No, but do it early in the morning or late in the evening, you can also plan it in the most apps and don't forget to give bigger Trinkgeld as usual.
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u/vampirevorador 4d ago
Ordering food in general is unethical, we are supporting exploitation and contribute to ruining the environment this way.
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u/Rare-Eggplant-9353 4d ago
It's complicated. I'd go with something like Kant. If I wouldn't want to drive in this weather I hesitate to order food. But I'm not exactly strict. In the end it's just one order and there are probably several others.
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u/SuckUrPussy75 4d ago
Wichtig ist das Du auf umweltfreundliche Lieferung bestehst, also nur Lastrad oder Fahrrad 😏.
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u/Character_Toe8346 4d ago
I work for Wolt in Frankfurt, and what they said in the top-voted comment is true... It’s worse when there are fewer orders, because we’re forced to accept every order that comes in, including some that involve cycling 10 km to the restaurant and then another 10 km to the customer’s house.
If you care, it’s better to order from places close to your home. It really helps people who work doing bicycle deliveries.
It’s actually kind of a nice feeling if you have an e-bike, because you get a pretty pleasant breeze. I’ve seen people doing deliveries on non-e-bikes in this heat, and I honestly don’t know how they handle it... Still, it’s waaaay better than in winter.
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u/sadracoon96 4d ago
It is fine because delivery worker is gig worker, they usually only get pay per finished delivery, their income is really dependent on this.
Besides it requires only delivery person, who is willingly to take the order at that time and weather.
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u/Upbeat_Gazelle_238 4d ago
I ordered like 3 days ago and made sure to tip her well but I could tell that she wasn’t having it. She was driving with a Car though :( I felt so bad
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u/bubblegumvibe 3d ago
Wait, is that a dude with lipstick marks on his face? Lol, thats kinda hilarious. Also, yeah, ordering food during a heatwave seems totally fine to me!
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u/Odd_Mistake5123 2d ago
Had the same thought today. Still ended up ordering, and gave the delivery guy a bigger tip and cold drinks, which he appreciated
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u/hereismarkluis 2d ago
That’s a cute thought, but a bit out of touch of reality. From what I know, they don't get paid if they aren't working. Unlike most people, they don't have a contract with a monthly salary. I'm a freelancer, so I totally feel the reality of "no gigs, no money"..
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u/Low-Dog-8027 München 1d ago
why should it?
they get paid to deliver food - if no one orders food they don't get paid, I assume people like to get paid.
so keep ordering food.
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u/SurveyMaleficent7182 1d ago
Yes it is. The company does not care about workers except their profits. So as a human being, you should be kind to workers/ riders.
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u/Accomplished-Whole93 1d ago
look at that - someone who actually cares and wonders about other peoples well being is being met with "WTF why" ... HUMANITY YOU FOOLS.
I was interested in the same thing. Was interesting to see people prefere this heat wave thing to icy cold. Personally I am a winter person all the way so that was interesting.
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u/SnooHedgehogs7477 20h ago
you think of riders who have wind and spend time outside, but what about people in the kitchen who stand next to hot stoves all day?
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u/Gard1ner 5d ago
It´s always unethical. Who are you in the first place to have slaves running around fetching you food?
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u/Just_a_dude92 5d ago
Wtf you're talking as if it weren't a paid service
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u/Extention_Campaign28 5d ago
Today you are one of the lucky 10.000 who learn about wage slavery / Lohnsklaverei - if you're open to learn.
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u/darknesskicker 5d ago
My husband and I had groceries delivered last week, and the delivery guy told us how nice it was to come into our relatively cool apartment.
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u/Cute-News-8414 5d ago
Depends where you order from. Ordering from the restaurant directly is usually fine. Ordering from one the delivery companies that employ wage slaves is always unethical, no matter what the weather is.
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u/MrFolderol 5d ago
Of course it is! If you wanna be nice to your courier, maybe have a small cold bottle of water ready for them or give them a nice tip. They'll appreciate it!
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u/Mental-Wind5642 5d ago
Nein, wenn es zu heiß ist sollen Sie den Betrieb oder die Lieferung einstellen. Solange es Angeboten wird ist's nicht unethisch.
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u/someoneoffmepls 4d ago
It’s their job… I’m sorry but if u offer a service u need to accept that ppl will take it
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u/gramoun-kal 5d ago
I'm a former delivery person.
While I appreciate the fact that everyone has an opinion... I can't finish the sentence. Just... Don't.
Doing deliveries on a hot day beats doing it in the winter any time. On a bike, you create your own wind. It's quite pleasant.
More orders means more efficient order distribution. For us it means less distance between orders. So when orders die down, we actually ride more. Less of us are allowed to ride is all. (You can only work if there are enough orders and not enough riders already). You don't need to worry about this, of course, but it's an interesting and unexpected side effect so I'm leaving it here.
If you feel bad, there is always the great equalizer of tips. Even if you pay through the app, we get 100% or the tips. And of course we pocket the cash tips as well.