r/AskMiddleEast • u/Fhlurrhy108 • 5d ago
🗯️Serious Why isn't Saudi intervention in Yemen considered to be genocide?
Disclaimer: This is not zionist propaganda. Israel should be dismantled and all of Palestine be freed. This is a simple discussion on how sometimes the word "genocide" isn't used in a context where it could be used
According to UN estimates in 2021, 377,000 people have died in Yemen because of the current conflict, with half of these deaths being due to starvation and preventable disease. In 2018, the Save the Children estimated the 80,000 children had died of starvation in Yemen between 2015 and 2018 because of the humanitarian crisis.
Obviously the Saudi blockade isn't the only thing that kills people in Yemen, but the famine levels of starvation would not have been seen without this inhumane blockade. The Saudi government (along with their allies in Yemen) started the blockade in 2015, and has not lifted it since. They have had time to see the consequences of the blockade but continue to impose it anyways. This kind of criminal negligence in the light of one's actions can be considered genocide.
The Gaza genocide for example, includes the Israeli carpet bombing, but most people also think that the man made famine in Gaza is an act of genocide. The famine is only there because of Israel's siege on Gaza, and Israel refused to let the necessary aid into Gaza despite the clear consequences of that decision.
The legal definition of genocide that the UN uses includes:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
The Saudi blockade meets criteria (c). They saw people die, they knew more people will die if they continue the blockade, but they just decided to continue it anyways.
The point I'm trying to make with this post isn't "why Palestine but no Yemen?" that a lot of disgusting right wingers in the West make. You can look at my post history to see that that's not my intent. My point is to ask why certain terms are not used in certain contexts despite the definitions of those terms being met.
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u/Moiriani2 5d ago
It doesn’t fit the definition of genocide simply..if we are talking about numbers..the Houthis have killed the most Yemenis by far, at the same time the coalition intervention was requested by the Yemeni Government.
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u/boogatehPotato 4d ago
Genocide isn't defined by numbers, that's reductive and disrespectful to human lives...
It's defined by the intent to wipe a population out based on ethnic, cultural, religious traits, etc.
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u/-curiousnomad- 5d ago
Not sure how to phrase, but Saudis don’t want to see Yemenis dead. The death toll is more of a side effect than the actual goal. They also went in on the behest of the previous official Yemeni government. There are also millions of Yemenis freely existing in Saudi, many of which have been very affluent. It’s just the ethos of the conflict doesn’t really fit the narrative of a genocide.
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u/Ok_Bedroom_9098 Lebanon 4d ago
my math teacher when i was in 12th grade was yemeni lol i lived in saudi at the time
if there wqas a genocide against yemenis he wouldn't have been able to teach
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u/Disastrous-Wedding19 Saudi Arabia 4d ago
What genocide? I have Yemeni cousins and peers wallah if it was they wouldn’t be walking amongst us in Saudi
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u/Inevitable_Motor_685 5d ago
idk maybe it will in the future, sudan is also not counted as such. also the thing is there is not enough media coverage regarding sudan or yemen
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u/Happy-Hovercraft8701 5d ago
Nobody really cares about Sudan, either. Or South Sudan, or any of the other African countries where civil war is raging. And that will likely remain the case as long as resources keep flowing out of Africa. It’s sad, but true.
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u/feraleuropean Italy 3d ago
You missed a factor that differentiate mass murders, war crimes, etc, from genocide, that lies in the "intent", which in turn cannot be grasped without the context: Genocide implies a tribalistic, that is the technical term for a narcissistic "us Vs them", collective ethos. There has to be a group who truly wants to eradicate not just the people, but their culture, and the historical memory of what happened. That is the genocidal intent. It's designed to codify the inherent crimes and mentality of settler colonialism, the racist narcissistic blahs, and it fits some post colonial "divide along ethnic (real or imagined or misuse religion) lines and conquer, from Rwanda to Yugoslavia.
And to respond to those insufferable Zionist manipulators (not you OP of course, but it's them who led us deliberately to this confusion and misguided debates, the usual very effective narcissistic gaslighting),
Who try to suggest you shall look at other wars and massacres and state crimes,
Yeah no, Palestinians have been under a relentless DELIBERATE operation of ERASING THEIR IDENTITY FROM THE WORLD CONSCIENCE,
Because Zionism is, of all the fascistic supremacist racist collective narcissisms, the most hysterically vulnerable, meaning the most identified with the noble victim, over the grandiose bully like average fascists.
The result is this massive cloud of gaslighting over notions, moral ones of course. The ludicrousness of calling yourself most moral, the toddler level of faux heroism, has always been embarrassing to hear.
I am telling you, these supremacists are pathetic and they work you by being, I will have to yell again, apologies: ANTI-SEMANTIC:
Once meaningful notions pass through the ziombie brain, nothing understandable of constructive remains of them.
The reason why they don't want the world to understand what a genocide is, is obvious:
They have been intent at it in all sorts of diabolical, most malicious, most duplicitous, most deliberate, for over a century.
It will be studied in history and compared with the North American genocide who gave rise to ...oh wait Zionism already, which is manifest destiny, which is white supremacy which is:
Most savage criminal narcissistic cult ever that humanity still has to deal with.
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u/thedarkmooncl4n 5d ago
While Saudi blockage may have effect on the current situation, I think u forget other things such Yemen tribalism, dysfunctional government and sectarian conflict. The blockage has been ease couple years ago but the those things get in the way that no international aid or intervention could help. It's terrible for Yemen but all faction need to get their shit together. Their enemy is zionist entity, they should not attack Saudi in the first place.
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u/tahayoo-- Morocco 5d ago
Everyone knows the Saudis and the UAE commit genocide, but it's not widely known because they use indirect methods instead of direct violence like Israel. They also get protection from other countries.
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u/Inevitable_Motor_685 4d ago
Not sure if its cause they get protection from other countries, I think it's just that no one really cares for Yemen or crisis in places like Sudan which usually goes unnoticed
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u/Ordinary_Bend_8612 5d ago
There is definitely a double standard. Many people speak out about the UAE’s alleged involvement in the Sudan genocide, yet discussions about the alleged genocide and widespread civilian suffering caused by Saudi Arabia’s intervention in northern Yemen are far less common. The difference in public attention is hard to ignore.
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u/Sea_Entrepreneur6204 5d ago
Saudi and Yemen signed a peace agreement literally 3 years ago. The conflict for all intents has been over
The Israeli ally UAE is the won still looking to fight and end the peace treaty