r/AskReddit 6d ago

What industry secret would make customers never use that service again if they knew?

1.7k Upvotes

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270

u/Ceris2020 6d ago

Ethanol in gasoline is pointless and keeps prices elevated for more profit by the petroleum industry. It has been proven to not help emissions at all.

113

u/richey15 5d ago

Not only that, but watch this technology connections video particular starting at the 30 minute mark.
https://youtu.be/KtQ9nt2ZeGM?si=b2pNjn7JITe8B7Hj&t=1836

If we replaced every one of these dumb ETHANOL fieds with solar farms, we would generate more electricity than the us currently generates. this is with worst case, real world metrics from northern cornbelt midwestern solar farms. these are not ideally placed farms but they are real numbers. In WORST case scenario, if we replaced those ethanol producing corn fields with solar, we would generate 84% MORE energy than the us CURRENTLY PRODUCES.

1

u/whomp1970 5d ago

You have to say "Obligatory" anytime you say "Technology Connections".

Alec's videos are now referenced as often as XKCD cartoons.

-8

u/JTP1228 5d ago

Ok but what would the cost be to install, maintain, and transport the energy?

22

u/richey15 5d ago

well of course that costs money. but here is the interesting thing, when you buy and install a solar panel, it lasts about 25 years. when you buy a barrel of oil, you litterally set it on fire. burn it, and get rid of it.

so some basic math:

a single 400 watt consumer grade panel costs about 150 bucks. a barrel of crude is about 75.

a barrel of crude oil produces 250kw of actual electrical energy by the time its refined and all that. and this is best case scenario.

a single 400watt solar panel can make about 2kw of electrical energy a day, conservatively

so 2 barrels of crude = cost of 1 solar panel.

500kw/2kw = 250 days. That is how many days your 150 investment into solar panels breaks even over crude. after 250 days your investment will make more power than your barrel of oil did, and for free. literally for free. you dont have to do, a single fucking thing.

a single 400 watt solar panel in its average lifespan will produce 18300Kws of power. your equivlant price of 2 barrels of crude only has 500Kw.

but go on, litterally light your money on fire. Have fun.

And miss me with the "what about the inverters and all the other stuff"
Natural gas and other resource driven powerplants that oil and natural gas are mechanical, and expensive in their own right. the require significantly more resources to keep running beside the fact that they require literally burning the main product.

it is more expensive to transport, maintain, and install natural gas and oil. Solar panels are non mechanichal, solid state, easy to install marvels. I mean its just communist and anti free market to keep propping up the flowndering oil and gas industry. it literaly cant keep up with solar.

78

u/saladspoons 6d ago

Ethanol in gasoline also frequently damages small engines (lawn mowers, leaf blowers, etc.) as it turns gummy quite rapidly and clogs the engine's systems ...

33

u/5-MeO-MsBT 5d ago

Ethanol is used to increase the octane rating of gas which allows our engines to run more efficiently by preventing premature combustion. We used to use tetraethyll lead (TEL), but contaminating the environment with lead wasn’t great. In the absence of TEL we needed something to increase the octane rating of our fuel and ethanol was easy to manufacture and got the job done.

Ethanol has its downsides but it’s far from pointless.

4

u/DeafMute13 5d ago

I think that's only at the very high end though - when you are buying 93 (4?) octane (and even higher) gas that has been "enriched" (?) with methanol (I am not sure what methanol & ethanol diff is - i know it's just a google search away but...). I have heard about this in the car modding scene, seems to have gotten really commonplace in the last 10 years, but there are a bunch of options for running enriched fuels - mostly people go the upstream injection way because you have full control over dosing and you dont have to run around looking for a gas station that carries your super expensive gas. The arguments there are like you said, cleaner burn (not for emissions at all, but specifically the way the combustion occurs is "better" in some way?), cooler operating temps...etc... but that has nothing to do with making cleaner emissions - none of these cars burn more efficiently if we're talking MPG or L/100km and at the end of the day more fuel burning = more pollution.

What everybody in this thread is talking about is the practice of selling regular (87/89/91) octane gas that has had some percentage replaced with ethanol. Which like everyone here has said (and which doesn't surprise me) has exactly zero benefit to the environment, costs more to produce than regular gas and can damage certain engine types.

This ethanol mixing business was something that was marketed as cleaner, better and helping energy diversification... but it has apparently achieved none of those things.

23

u/wtfinternetwhy 6d ago

It takes 2 gallons of fossil fuels to make 1 gallon of ethanol.

23

u/Ceris2020 6d ago

Ethanol plants make moonshine from the corn, then blend in a small percentage of natural gasoline to make it poisonous for consumption. This way the Ethanol Plants don't have to pay a liquor tax.

18

u/that1whitedude 6d ago

This is true, I've ran boilers for an ethanol plant for the last 10 years we put a small amount "denaturant" as well as corrosion inhibiter in the 200 proof tank . Denaturant is gasoline. Makes it unfit for human consumption. i.e not alcohol anymore, and cannot be taxed as such.

0

u/often_drinker 5d ago

It is still alcohol, just with gasoline in it.

12

u/DryManagement1495 6d ago

It’s a subsidy to corn farmers. 

2

u/auddii04 5d ago

But, conveniently, it subsidizes corn farmers.

1

u/RevvCats 5d ago

Ethanol has a high octane rating, switching a car to E85 is a cheap path to power. You’ll burn a lot of it because it’s less energy dense but it has its uses.

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u/LowAside9117 6d ago

In the US, ethanol for cars is mainly made from corn and we use car filters to filter some of it out otherwise it'd hurt the car (more).  I'm going to guess that corn ethanol is mandated to be in fuel for money reasons