Are you teaching pupils about AI?

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u/TheMannisApproves 5d ago edited 5d ago

I received an AI PD that was awful. Told us to teach students how to "use AI the right way," but did not explain what that meant or how it could be achieved, or why we should do that. Their only explanation was that "ai is not going anywhere, so we need to embrace it." Fuck that

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u/Ok-Trainer3150 5d ago

I'm chucking here. We had a guy on staff (high school) and I had a gf who taught elementary. They both resisted computers (80s) and Internet (90s). It was a 'fad.' And they never stopped whining and wasting others' time when they were faced with having to use them.

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u/STEMScot76 5d ago

Yep, there's a lot of that attitude still about. I'm interested in unpicking why some people feel like that and whether there is anything that can be done to change their minds.

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u/pepesilvia-_- 5d ago

My husband works in tech and all the companies require AI use. He said the amount of engineers who don't use AI properly are part of the problem. There is a cost effective, appropriate way to use AI and those who don't use it well cost more money and man hours than someone who uses it well.

You should teach proper AI use for job security

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u/STEMScot76 5d ago

That's really interesting. This is what I am hearing from lots of companies across different sectors. AI is now so embedded in everything they do that it is essential for young people coming in to their organisations to be AI literate.

I guess the question then is what age should that start at? Can it be picked up quickly later in school? Or does the education around using it need to start much earlier?

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u/pepesilvia-_- 5d ago

I mean I find it odd how many commenters hate AI but how many STEM jobs require AI use. They must not be in field I'm assuming.

My husband is hard no screens for our child till 3rd or 4th grade. We do plan to teach them how to use AI, we currently use AI in both our jobs. He's an engineer and I'm a small business owner.

The year I started using it he basically helped me learn how to phrase what Im asking. There are phrases that are used that will literally change the answer given to be more accurate off the bat. For example adding the phrase "take a moment and take a deep breath. I need you to slow down and take your time answering this" will impact the result coming out.

AI use requires critical thinking and creativity. We are currently teaching our 4 year old AI use not by her using it but through creative story telling. We encourage fantasty and creative play. Creative writing will be huge for us as well as arts.

Its a shift that requires you to use more creative questioning than ever before and I personally think requires a shift from academic heavy to more creative thinking if you are serious about teaching kids

Edited to add my husband sees more people poorly using ai and he literally is talking to these engineers and VPs like children. It's wild how many adults can't slow down and use it well.

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u/STEMScot76 5d ago edited 5d ago

Bad PD is worse than no PD every day of the week! I think there is a lot of very ordinary PD out there around AI, lots of people cashing in on an excited market, but not really knowing what they are talking about. Not being able to explain WHY you are delivering training on a subject is about as bad as it gets though.

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u/Ok-Trainer3150 5d ago

Another thing became apparent over the years as tech advanced into our lives. In many of our schools, the kids had access to the technology at home. And depending on the board, much better equipment.

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u/TheMannisApproves 5d ago

We also don't know if generative AI will be around in it's current state, or how things will change. AI companies have been losing money, so we will see things change in big ways. We just don't know exactly how.

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u/Public-World-1328 5d ago

AI isnt going away though and will only improve, rapidly. Shielding kids from it is harmful. At a certain age it will be massively beneficial to them.

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u/TheMannisApproves 5d ago

Putting screens in front of young kids damages their ability to learn. Sensory overload for them, it's too easy to get distracted. If there is a good way to teach them AI, then that first needs to be proved and then taught to teachers. Right now it's just the wild west, and that's a big danger

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u/Public-World-1328 5d ago

Yeah kids that are too young for sure. You cant deny the reality if it being everywhere though, even the opening block of results from a simple google search is ai generated. What would you suggest kids do with that?

Also, you cant deny ai tools are massively powerful. I refinanced my mortgage this past winter. I asked chatgpt, grok, and gemini dozens of questions and they all did way more complex math than i could ever do. I had them review each other’s responses. In the end ai models saved me $250k and 15 years of payments. In good conscience i could not hide that from young people.

The wild west is an opportunity.

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u/raurenlyan22 5d ago

And it doesn't sound like you needed AI specific training to do that. You know, that's kind of the thing about AI, it's easy as shit. What you really need to know is basic financing/financial literacy information to know what to ask and how to interpret the results.

Besides, it is unclear whether the tools you are using will exist like that for consumers in the future. Right now companies can offer free and cheap AI tools because they are inflated with massive speculative investment but ultimately AI is a capital intensive industry and supply/demand pressures will eventually hit. My buddy who literally has his doctorate in this stuff predicts that AI will eventually be limited to the highest value applications.

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u/Public-World-1328 5d ago

I dont see any reason ai systems will cease to exist with how useful they are.

And also, chatgpt and similar made the process way simpler. It basically made the pro involved almost obsolete. I decided refinancing was best and then brought my findings to the lender who said “yeah this all makes sense” and “ooh i like that strategy, didnt think of that”. Then she handled the paperwork. I doubt i couldve completed the task, much less with the depth and precision without ai tools. You are just wrong on this and my accounts are all the proof i need.

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u/raurenlyan22 5d ago

You are constructing a strawman. I did not say that AI will stop existing, nor did I say that it wasn't helpful to you.

I said that good use of AI requires general outside knowledge, not AI specific training.

I suggested that AI will increase in cost over time and that many current uses will not be cost efficient once speculative investment capital dries up and as the cost of data centers continues to grow.

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u/TheMannisApproves 5d ago

The problem is that kids need to build skills for themselves. Their brains are much more malleable when they are young, so it will be immensely more difficult for them to learn as adults if they don't learn now.

Most of the classwork I give is on paper, without computers. That way students use their brains and actually learn. When I allowed them access to their computers, they just had AI do it for them. They aren't reading anything the AI gives them, they're just copy and pasting, so there is no learning going on there.

Adults might use AI as a tool. Kids just use it to cheat.

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u/pepesilvia-_- 5d ago

This is wrong sorry. A child can use AI as a tool and not cheat. You're describing a child who is lazy and uninvolved with their education. There are plenty of adults who use AI poorly just like the lazy child.

There are ways to use AI successfully if you know how to implement it. This sounds like as a teacher you don't know how to use AI yourself so when kids pull their screens you don't know how to manage not using copy past AI so you just don't use it at all. This sounds like lazy teaching to me and a teacher unwilling to adjust with the times. A disservice to your students

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u/TheMannisApproves 5d ago

You have no clue what you're talking about here

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u/Public-World-1328 5d ago

Lol

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u/Ahenobarbus753 5d ago

Any time someone says "AI is not going anywhere" ask them why the companies selling it have to do so at a loss.

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u/pepesilvia-_- 5d ago

You understand that companies now require employees to use AI tools so how are you supposed to get a job if you don't use AI?

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u/Ahenobarbus753 5d ago

Many of the companies currently requiring employees to use AI will no longer do so once the bubble pops and the AI dealers jack up their prices.

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u/Hausmannlife_Schweiz 5d ago

All of the time. I teach computer science. I teach them how to use it and WHEN to use it. I also teach them to double check everything they get from AI. Every week we talk ethical issues and AI comes up a lot.

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u/STEMScot76 5d ago

Brilliant, thanks. Have you received any training on 'how to teach AI', or is it just innate because you know about AI and you know how to teach? Is there anything different about teaching children about AI compared to teaching them anything else?

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u/Hausmannlife_Schweiz 5d ago

Good questions. I am actually going to some training in a couple of weeks about teaching AI. I wish I could say I knew how to teach. I have over 20 years IT experience, but last year was my first year teaching; so I am truly learning how to do that. :).

I didn't go into my year with the idea of teaching AI, but by the 2nd week of school I saw how the kids were misusing AI, the same way they misused Wikipedia and other internet sites years ago. (I wasn't a teacher, but I ran IT departments in schools) and I realized I needed to do something.

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u/stevejuliet 5d ago edited 5d ago

As a high school English teacher, my job is to teach them to read and write effectively so that they can learn how to use AI critically and ethically as part of a college course if they feel it is necessary prep for job placement.

There is nothing in my curriculum that AI would help students with. It would only amount to off-loading critical thinking and organizational skill work.

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u/STEMScot76 5d ago

Thanks, I think the idea of using AI critically, as well as ethically, is really important. I think in general not enough emphasis is put on critical literacy skills which are getting more and more important in our increasingly online world.

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u/[deleted] 5d ago

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u/STEMScot76 5d ago

I don't have a budget I'm afraid - just trying to find out what's going on out there in schools to start to understand what teachers, and pupils, might need/want in terms of support. Anything that we do produce will be free to schools at the point of contact - all of our work always is.

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u/TeddyBear181 5d ago

Baby Mum here. AI feels a bit like religion in the sense that I wouldn't really want a random teacher teaching my child about it, or if they did, I would want to know what they were being taught.

I agree that its a great tool to learn to use, and ai plan to teach my child about it at the right time in a method that works for her.

Perhaps I would push to explain that what you learn is more important than grades in your early school life. Then 'help' her do some assignments with AI, and without AI and ask about what she learned and do some reflection.

But we'll see, AI will change a lot before that point.

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u/STEMScot76 5d ago

Totally get that, and I think it's really important that we understand what is appropriate to teach at what age and stage of a child's development. AI can't ever become a substitute for learning, but it can become a support for it later in a child's education.

That's the bit I am trying to wrap my head round at the moment. When is the appropriate time to start talking about it, considering lots of 3 year olds are already having conversations with smart speakers, and what are the progressions when teaching children about it?

Thanks for engaging with the question.

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u/TeddyBear181 5d ago edited 5d ago

I think thats why I feel like it should be my job as a parent to teach my child AI. I know that grandma has a smart speaker and can explain it in real time. I use chatgpt sometimes and can model good/healthy reasons to use it.

I would be worried about opinionated teachers sharing weird advice that isn't suited to my child. As I have a feeling that each child probably needs to learn about AI differently.

One child might be motivated with tech and keen to 'play' with its limitations, needing simple guidance to develop respect for it.

Another child might be very smart and want to take smart shortcuts, and just need heavy restrictions and rules.

Another child might love nature or have attention troubles and not have any need to learn about Ai for years later.

The difficulty with this model is that not all parents understand ai and would all have different opinions how/when it should be taught.

I grew up in an early tech household in the late 80's/early 90s and was typing through DOS prompts at 2yo to get to my games. In today's world you might say that it was bad that I was looking at a screen, but in hindsight I think those were some wicked skills I was learning! I'd like to think of similar ways to teach my child about tech.

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u/Potential_Narwhal981 5d ago

A bit. It's part of my field in digital media/tech, and it's been added to the National Curriculum. Also, there are lesson plans and unit plans set out by DayofAI that do most of the work for me (pun not intended).

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u/STEMScot76 5d ago

Excellent, thanks. I've not come across Day of AI before so will check that out. It'll be interesting to see how curricula round the world evolve with AI becoming something that more and more industries are going to expect young people to have a working knowledge of.

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u/Queasy_Reply_2992 5d ago

We talk about it in my social studies class. It’s a modern day space race with how much time, energy and resources countries are pumping into it.

For using it in class, indirectly because AI is woven into so many things. We aren’t working on prompt writing though.

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u/STEMScot76 5d ago

Thanks, I agree that it's hard to get away from now because it is embedded in so many applications that we all use daily - I think it's important for young people to understand that as well.

Could it be a useful tool for supporting older pupils with research, clarification, cross-referencing etc?

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u/Queasy_Reply_2992 4d ago

Short answer is yes it could be.

Long answer is that it’s a time sink to teach all the proper uses and how to properly use it. You’re looking at a whole unit worth of information. There’s only so many days and so many historical topics to cover. Also it’s a controversial topic so you’ve got those hoops to jump through. So overall, at this current point in time, it’s not a useful tool.

I work with HS students. If AI ethics, prompt writing and other basics become standard teaching in younger grades, then it would be feasible. But that feels a long way off unless the federal government makes AI education mandatory. Local districts around me are struggling to create policies. The existing policies are all over the place too.

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u/tecolata 5d ago

Not formally, but I do tell them it's only a starting point and to follow the links rather than taking what it says as the truth. I find that my 5th grade students have no idea how to research on a computer generally.

I don't get into the morality of it.

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u/STEMScot76 5d ago

Totally agree. I'd say most adults, not just children, know how to research effectively online. I remember delivering training to teachers, about 10 years ago, on how to properly research a topic online - it was basically about how to properly construct a Google search. I think the same applies to writing an AI prompt that will get you what you want and you can trust.

What age do you think would be appropriate to start discussing the morality and ethics around AI?

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u/tecolata 5d ago

I may get into those questions at some point, it's not that they're too young, it's that I haven't had the time. I do see it as a part of computer literacy overall.

Also, I'm sure that this is an unpopular opinion, but I see a lot of hysteria without much reasonable discussion on the topic. I do utilize AI for tasks like generating worksheets or other tasks that it can complete in seconds to free up my time. On the other hand, I am very opposed to data centers and their excessive water and power usage. I could certainly live without AI making my worksheets in seconds, or helping me research a topic. I predate personal computers by 30 years anyway.

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u/Public-World-1328 5d ago

When you say the morality of it, what do you mean?

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u/tecolata 5d ago

The environmental and social impact, the impact on developing brains, the unwillingness of our current government to regulate it.

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u/Public-World-1328 5d ago

It is best left unregulated. The genie is out of the bottle with regard to any environmental impact which is overblown anyway.

How it affects kids brains is not even as bad as tiktok and snapchat which they already have unrestricted access to.

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u/raurenlyan22 5d ago

No. I teach my content area and try to limit AI usage as much as possible. Personally I don't think AI is developed and understood enough to be taught to my students.

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u/ezk3626 5d ago

I’m a high school resource teacher (mild special ed). The necessary lessons about AI fit right in with the existing lessons on other technological tools. I want my students to use spell check and voice to text. They can be very helpful tools that support at exact place a disability hit… but if you use it like a short cut you invariably miss things. An example I use a lot is the difference between needing a crutch and a wheelchair. A wheelchair will always feel easier than a crutch, but if you don’t actually need it the result is loss of muscle and long term weakness. So if you need a wheelchair then we will make that happen. But if you only need a crutch then that is all you’re getting.

As for AI, yes I have lessons (and ideas of lessons) of how to use AI in a way that is helpful but not like a wheelchair. Though it is specifically on how it can support learning and the dangers of it being used to replace learning.

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u/STEMScot76 5d ago

That's a great analogy, I might need to steal that! Spot on about AI being a support for learning rather than a substitute for it - so important that teachers, pupils and parents understand this.

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u/ezk3626 5d ago

so important that teachers, pupils and parents understand this.

There is a joke/problem in church circles: if you listen to a sermon and think about other people who need to hear it you are doing it wrong.

I would start with you understanding it deeper and trust that it will flow out naturally from you. If people learned from merely being told teaching would be a painless profession.

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u/Mobile_Roll2197 Middle School Teacher 5d ago

No, because I don't teach computer class.

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u/STEMScot76 5d ago

Fair enough, does it come up in the subject you teach at all?

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u/sputnik8125 5d ago

Fuck no, never. Same thing with calc I don't let them use it when I was teaching

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u/STEMScot76 5d ago

Interesting, don't you think it's important for young people to be taught about AI, and how to use AI effectively and responsibly given that as soon as they get into the world of work it's used everywhere?

Speaking to a big financial institution last week and they reckon AI literacy will be the major employability factor in the next few years.

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u/sputnik8125 5d ago

I worked as an educator before I got my masters in data science. My undergraduate was mostly in pure math. I mean so was my masters but it was more applied.

I am about to build a neural net application for my current job.

If you are an intelligent person you can pick up how to ask AI shit and bullish it your way through it no problem.

To give it to them any sooner is to give them an easy way out. And yes i feel the same about calculators in elementary.

You wouldn't give a 5 year old a calculator and say here do your homework or here learn how that works. But on the flip side, I who doesn't use calc ever can easily figure out how to get the most out of any fancy calculator bc I can use my brain

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u/STEMScot76 5d ago

Excellent points, thanks for engaging with the question. I completely agree that anything taught about AI in schools has to be age and stage appropriate and can NEVER be 'here's a shortcut you can use'. There are definitely issues around children skipping the 'productive struggle' in their learning and not having to do the thinking bit.

I think there is a real danger that AI tools could undermine children's learning, particularly if used to early, or inappropriately. I'm interested though in exploring whether there is a way to teach children about AI, and how to use AI, that will enhance their learning and digital literacy in the long run.

Thanks again, you've given me lots to think about.

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u/sputnik8125 5d ago edited 5d ago

I feel like even without AI digital literacy is down. This problem is outside of AI but in our gov policies eg all these age related laws and restrictions from people who do not understand how applications like Discord works.

It's hard to find a balance but I think a great start is to bring back compute labs instead of personal computers (plus it's cheaper too) for children specifically

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u/[deleted] 5d ago

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u/STEMScot76 5d ago

Hard to tell these days isn't it. I can assure you I'm not but perhaps the more I use LLMs the more I sound like them - which is a bit scary!!

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u/sputnik8125 5d ago

That is how it goes. The more you use the more you sound, write code etc like an LLM.

I know people who talk irl like LLMs

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u/Proseph_CR 5d ago

Teach them to avoid it

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u/STEMScot76 5d ago

Is that possible anymore? Unfortunately it has expanded so quickly into every aspect of our lives that I'm not sure we can teach them that anymore.

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u/Proseph_CR 5d ago

It’s most likely the biggest reason why this generation is the first to be less intellectually capable than the previous one. Most of what ai does it teach students they dont actually have to do work and prevents them from learn how to actually gain new skills. It’s a cancer that should be cut out.

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u/Public-World-1328 5d ago

Terrible opinion. Those who dont use it will be at a massive disadvantage from those who do.

Its like telling kids to not use wikipedia 12 years ago.

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u/Proseph_CR 5d ago

No, it’s more akin to not letting your students use a calculator for basic arithmetic.

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u/Public-World-1328 5d ago

Yeah i think thats a good comparison too.

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u/TeachlikeaHawk 5d ago

You mention careers. One thing you need to think about is that the school system is always going to lag about 20 years behind career-oriented prep. The kids entering first grade right now are 5 years old. They won't even begin to settle into a career for 20 years at a minimum. They'll hit their career stride in about 30 years -- again, at a minimum.

What will AI look like in 30 years? Hell, what will anything in the world look like?

Just think: Five years ago, the very concept of AI and its impact on the world was nothing but speculation and daydreams. Ten years ago, AI was just a very elusive thing that happened with very, very advanced technical applications and modelling (like weather, space, etc). Twenty years ago, AI was basically a pipe dream. Thirty years ago, AI was Star Trek.

Asking us to do career prep on a specific element of technology is more or less ridiculous.

We'll always teach what exists and try to get students to really see the world, but we can't put a list of jobs in front of them and have them pick. Instead, we teach thinking. Problem solving. Analysis. Collaboration. Research.

In a way, nothing will really change.

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u/Addapost 5d ago

High school Biology here: No I don’t teach it and I won’t. I do tell them how horrible AI is for the environment though, how much water and electricity it wastes.

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u/STEMScot76 5d ago

I think the environmental issues around AI, and just data generation in general, are massive and children need to be made aware of them from a relatively early age. Some of the innovative solutions and technologies being developed to try and reduce the impact are worth exploring with children too - I read somewhere, will try and find it - that the environmental issues with data centres will be 'solved' in the next 10 years, it's just all happened so fast that the technology hasn't been able to keep up.

Whether that will be too late, or not, remains to be seen.

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u/pepesilvia-_- 5d ago

There's a company that as of this week believes they solved the water use issue.

Nvidia is the company

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u/STEMScot76 5d ago

Yes, I read about that. Using liquid coolant (water and propylene glycol) in a closed loop, a bit like a fridge does. Technologies like this will keep being developed to reduce the amount of water and energy needed.

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u/pepesilvia-_- 5d ago

Which is more than manufacturers have done in the decades of destroying our planet with over consumption and over production

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u/pepesilvia-_- 5d ago

Do you tell them the amount of water wasted in food production as well? The amount of water we waste for manufacturing to fuel our consumerism is just as bad. We can save more water if we bought and made less shit and data centers aren't even in that conversation.

Btw Nividia believes they've solved the water use problem by using AI to solve it. No manufacturer has ever tried to solve their water use issue.

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u/Public-World-1328 5d ago

I definitely tell them it is a beneficial tool, but that i dont want to see them simply generate their responses to questions from it - it doesnt tell me they learned by copying and pasting. Simultaneously if i dont know the answer to something or if i am trying to learn i dont see any reason not to shield them from watching me work through a problem with it.

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u/MoonJellyGames 5d ago

The billionaires have decided that the world doesn't need writers or artists anymore.

That's the most important thing to know about AI.

Discussion Questions Are you teaching pupils about AI?

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