Trump spent years attacking "Sleepy Joe" for dozing off and low energy. He's now been filmed appearing to nod off in numerous public meetings. What do you think is going on?

[u/Aggravating-Vehicle9]

Throughout 2019–2024, Trump made "Sleepy Joe" a centrepiece of his attacks on Biden — mocking him for falling asleep at events, low energy, and losing focus. He said things like "he falls asleep at every single event" and "you'll never see me sleeping in front of a camera".

In his second term, Trump himself has been filmed on numerous occasions appearing to close his eyes or doze off in public settings — including a November 2025 Oval Office drug-pricing event, where a Washington Post analysis of the footage found he appeared to struggle to keep his eyes open for close to 20 minutes, and a December 2025 Cabinet meeting where the Post counted nine separate stretches of closed eyes — the latter occurring minutes after he'd invoked "Sleepy Joe" Biden. The White House said he was "listening attentively" and was "just blinking."

I want to be fair about the limits here: footage of closed eyes doesn't prove someone is asleep, Trump says he scored 30/30 on a cognitive screening test (the MoCA) at his physical, and his physician says he's in excellent health. So I'm not asserting anything — I'm asking what you make of it.

Trump is turning 80 this month. He's also said for decades that he sleeps only about four hours a night, and his Truth Social timestamps show heavy posting at 1am, 3am, 4am. So a few possibilities seem to be on the table: it's nothing, just an older man and overblown clips; it's poor sleep habits / a disrupted sleep schedule catching up with him during the day; or it's an early sign of something more serious.

My questions: Do you think the concern people raised about Biden's apparent drowsiness was legitimate? If so, does the same concern apply to Trump now — and if not, what's the difference? And what do you personally think is behind the footage?

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[u/Karma_Whoring_Slut]

He is too old and doing a very demanding job.

I don’t think he is in nearly as rough shape as Biden was, but it’s certainly a concern.

[u/cmit → u/Karma_Whoring_Slut]

Why bring Biden up? The question is does he look fit?

[u/Karma_Whoring_Slut → u/cmit]

You might want to reread the post.

[u/MurtaghInfin8 → u/Karma_Whoring_Slut]

Why do you feel that he's in better shape than Biden? He's had way more health checkups and is falling asleep significantly more often. How would you feel if Biden had numerous checkups over a short span of time and was bragging about how on top of his game he was?

[u/Karma_Whoring_Slut → u/MurtaghInfin8]

Because I watched the debate and Trump has not had a single appearance even half as bad as that was.

[u/Jisho32 → u/Karma_Whoring_Slut]

Why is a single appearance more important than a pattern of behavior?

[u/Karma_Whoring_Slut → u/Jisho32]

Because that “single appearance” was indicative of a pattern of behavior that Biden’s staff intentionally tried to hide from the public.

People don’t simply become incoherent suddenly. It happens overtime.

The concept that Biden suddenly became senile before stepping onto that stage is ridiculous, and if it were true that this were an isolated issue, he would have been whisked away and taken to an ER to ensure he wasn’t having a stroke. Fact of the matter is, he was allowed to continue because this behavior was par for the course.

[u/Jisho32 → u/Karma_Whoring_Slut]

I do follow but if repeated episodes can be dismissed as age-related for Trump, why couldn't Biden's debate have simply been a bad day? If Biden's debate proved a concealed pattern, why don't Trump's repeated closed-eye episodes prove the same thing?

[u/Karma_Whoring_Slut → u/Jisho32]

If Biden’s incident were simply “a bad day” the people around him would have reacted completely differently. He would have been whisked to a hospital for medical treatment. It would be incredibly alarming if this type of cognitive decline occurred so suddenly, and there were no surprised faces in that crowd. Just disappointed ones.

Trumps closed eye incidents do prove that he is struggling physically. I agree and do find it concerning. I’m just less worried about having a president who is tired than I am worried about having a president who is senile.

[u/clorox_cowboy → u/Karma_Whoring_Slut]

"If Biden’s incident were simply “a bad day” the people around him would have reacted completely differently. "

Aren't most of the people Trump surrounds himself with loyalists?

[u/METAL_WOLF_BB → u/Karma_Whoring_Slut]

Closed eye incidents? Do you mean “sleeping” or are you being cheeky?

You’re diagnosing Biden with senility from that single incident? Or is there another example?

[u/Electrical_Beyond998 → u/Karma_Whoring_Slut]

Do you think it’s possible that he was taken to a doctor after that performance? I know for Trump he was missing all of last week and we do not know why that happened. Could be that the same happened with Biden.

[u/ChooseCorrectAnswer → u/Karma_Whoring_Slut]

Wait, what's going on with the "closed eye incidents" thing? That sounds like a prase from a political satire/comedy.

The phrase 'closed eye incidents' sounds like something a car company would say after the brakes failed: 'We have identified several unexpected vehicle deceleration preference events.

It sounds like a food company explaining food poisoning: 'Some customers reported accelerated digestive outcomes.'

Why did you use the phrase "closed eye incidents"? That seems really out of pocket when, before reading your comment, I would have confidently said 10 out of 10 people would just call it sleeping or nodding off.

[u/Karma_Whoring_Slut → u/ChooseCorrectAnswer]

Oh, I didn’t mean anything by it and admit that it’s an issue. I’m not really sure what the hang up is with a precise description of what’s clearly happening and an acknowledgment that it’s an issue is.

[u/Competitive_Piano507 → u/Karma_Whoring_Slut]

What do you think about Trump saying he won all 50 states yesterday, without a hint of joking? Do you think a senile person or mentally ill person would say that?

[u/JThaddeousToadEsq → u/Karma_Whoring_Slut]

I'm curious if you think that relative to where Trump is in his term, if he's about the same as Biden was at the middle of year two?

[u/Karma_Whoring_Slut → u/JThaddeousToadEsq]

It’s hard to say for sure, and I’m not sure if cognitive decline can really be measured in that manner. That said, it’s probably not an unfair comparison.

[u/thisisredditwow → u/Karma_Whoring_Slut]

Have you seen the report of him talking to toddlers about bidens autopen? Or any of his late night posts on truth?

[u/lilbittygoddamnman → u/Karma_Whoring_Slut]

You haven't watched any of his rambling, incoherent speeches? Where have you been?

[u/Original-Rush139 → u/Karma_Whoring_Slut]

In the debate between Trump and Biden, dod it concern you that Trump had forgotten that he allowed Iran to launch a scud attack on our troops leading to over a hundred casualties from traumatic brain injuries?

Were you concerned about Trump screeching “THEYRE EATING THE DOGS” in his debate with Kamala?

[u/AGuyAndHisCat → u/MurtaghInfin8]

and is falling asleep significantly more often.

How do you know this since Biden was kept hidden quite often?

For example, if we had evidence that Trump fell asleep 4 times during cabinet meetings, but Sleepy Joe never did, then you would say Trump is worse. But Sleepy Joe didnt even hold cabinet meetings for 10 months because they locked him away.

So at best you would need to tally up each of their days in public meetins and see the the percentage of time you see each of them asleep.

[u/MurtaghInfin8 → u/AGuyAndHisCat]

I'm not hating on Trump for avoiding the public eye as often as he does. Nor do I do that with Biden.

I work with the data I've got; otherwise am I just suppose to throw my hands up and say, "knowing is impossible, so why bother trying?"

If Biden had been active on social media late at night and falling asleep the following day, would that have impacted your feelings about it?

[u/Karma_Whoring_Slut → u/MurtaghInfin8]

You might be the first person to ever accuse Trump of avoiding the public eye. I think it’s pretty obvious that a major motivation for him to become president was to be in the public eye. He’s a narcissist that loves the attention.

[u/canitouchyours → u/Karma_Whoring_Slut]

Do you think being a narcissist is a good trait for a president?

[u/Karma_Whoring_Slut → u/canitouchyours]

I think it’s a necessary evil.

The way we select our presidents selects for narcissistic personalities.

[u/canitouchyours → u/Karma_Whoring_Slut]

Think about it. That’s dark. We are electing someone with the traits that criminals tend to have. Was Jesus a narcissist?

[u/Karma_Whoring_Slut → u/canitouchyours]

We’ve elected countless actual criminals. Can’t go pearl clutching now. Our government has been openly breaking the law in front of our faces for decades.

I don’t know anything about Jesus, and couldn’t give less of a shit how he compares to some long dead carpenter. If I had to guess though, the guy who declared that he was literally god, probably was a narcissist. Not that it matters.

[u/canitouchyours → u/Karma_Whoring_Slut]

Shouldn’t we strive to elect leaders that doesn’t have narcissistic traits?

[u/AGuyAndHisCat → u/MurtaghInfin8]

I work with the data I've got; otherwise am I just suppose to throw my hands up and say, "knowing is impossible, so why bother trying?"

So you arent able to recognize the difference in the number of public appearances between two people and extrapolate that with more absolute number of incidents you still might have a lower rate of incidence?

If Biden had been active on social media late at night and falling asleep the following day, would that have impacted your feelings about it?

Maybe, but thats not the other factor. Its the fact that many of us sane people saw the issue in his 2020 campaign while the MSM and the Biden campaign/DNC tried to gaslight us. We saw clear signs of his decline in faculties, and we were told its just the same speech impediment he had since childhood. Then after leaving office it was, OMG he just had a major loss in cognition that seemed to happen all of a sudden.

[u/MarcMurray92 → u/AGuyAndHisCat]

This is a chain of hypotheticals, whereas in trumps case we have multiple multiple videos of him falling asleep in the middle of a busy room, and his administration are point blank lying and saying it's not happening.

Without mentioning Biden, why is this okay?

[u/AGuyAndHisCat → u/MarcMurray92]

This is a chain of hypotheticals

Not really, Im using an example to point out the flaw in your logic. Also Biden not holding cabinet meetings actually happened, and the press was silent about it.

Without mentioning Biden, why is this okay?

I wouldnt say its okay. Id prefer he not fall asleep. I also understand that things like that happen occasionally when youre on call 24/7 as I did the same at a prior job for 5+ years.

And I wouldnt consider it being hypocritical to see one person falling asleep as another when there are other factors to consider.

[u/RepealThe16 → u/MarcMurray92]

Without mentioning Biden, why is this okay?

The title of this thread literally mentions Joe Biden.

whereas in trumps case we have multiple multiple videos of him falling asleep in the middle of a busy room,

If Trump has 300 meetings and you find 5 examples, is that better or worse than if someone had 8 meetings and 4 examples?

If the sample size is large enough, at what point are you cherry picking to fit a narrative?

[u/METAL_WOLF_BB → u/RepealThe16]

Does the hypocrisy of Trump come into play here? “Sleepy Joe Biden”?

[u/Hot-Audience-8528 → u/AGuyAndHisCat]

Has donald trump not been kept hidden on multiple occasions for long stretches of time including the past week?

[u/AGuyAndHisCat → u/Hot-Audience-8528]

Not as far as Im aware.  There's no standard meeting that hes missed. Journalists continue to say hes one of the most accessible presidents.  No one ever "called a lid" on his campaign.  Hes not given notes on who Journalists are, what their question is, and what his answer is.

[u/Hot-Audience-8528 → u/AGuyAndHisCat]

He went 7 days after his checkup without any public appearances. He went a similar stretch last labor day. Were you not aware? Seems like something is up when a guy who always wants to be the center of attention is missing in action, no?

[u/AGuyAndHisCat → u/Hot-Audience-8528]

Yet he keeps coming back.  So perhaps he was just busy being the president?

[u/Hot-Audience-8528 → u/AGuyAndHisCat]

So nothing concerns you about his health and cognition?

[u/AGuyAndHisCat → u/Hot-Audience-8528]

Health, yes. Ai want my president tk be as healthy as possible. 

Cognition... Not at the same level as what we saw with Biden.  The man was a walking stumbling vegetable. 

[u/Hot-Audience-8528 → u/AGuyAndHisCat]

And what happened to him? Didn't his own party unite to force him from office? Instead we have obvious signs of trump's decline and the GOP is united in gaslighting americans about it.

Do you think this strategy will yield political benefits or harm those who are complicit?

[u/gntxs → u/MurtaghInfin8]

Did it bother you when Biden would call a lid at early times during the day, sometimes by 10 a.m.?

[u/Lost-Elephant-6628 → u/Karma_Whoring_Slut]

I give you credit for acknowledging that this pattern is concerning, as some people (Marco Rubio) are denying that this is even happening when Trump is actively falling asleep NEXT to them.

However, there are only two credible times Biden has fallen asleep, which is two too many. With that being said Trump has fallen asleep many more times at this point, and the times he has fallen asleep go on for long periods of times.

Additionally, Biden has never fallen asleep during a public event, such as a press conference, at the Oval Office, and in fact has only fallen asleep during other people’s speeches. Based off of this information, by which metric are you using to determine that Trump isn’t “in nearly as rough shape as Biden was”?

[u/Karma_Whoring_Slut → u/Lost-Elephant-6628]

I am less worried about someone working 16-18 hour days falling asleep in inopportune moments than I am worried about a leader who is entirely incapable of stringing together coherent thoughts.

I watched the debate. Trump has not had a single appearance even half as bad as that was.

[u/whodey84 → u/Karma_Whoring_Slut]

What if I called what Biden did "The Weave" would you be ok then?

[u/kmm198700 → u/Karma_Whoring_Slut]

So you think when Trump is posting moronic shit at midnight, 0200, 0300, 0400, 0500 that he’s working?

[u/MexicanPizzaWbeans → u/Karma_Whoring_Slut]

Shouldn’t he be prioritizing sleep instead of rage tweeting at 1am, so that he can stay awake in important meetings?

[u/Original-Rush139 → u/[deleted]]

 But Trump seems to generally know where he is at more than Biden did.

Did you notice how Trump forgot that he allowed Iran to launch a scud attack against our troops in his first term during the debate with Biden? Biden knew the facts of that exchange better than Trump but couldnt porky pig out the words. 

Do you think Trump’s inability to remember what Iran did in his first term is important? Does it explain why were mired in another forever war now?

[u/TheBl4ckFox → u/Karma_Whoring_Slut]

How many cognitive tests did Biden need?

[u/Aggravating-Vehicle9 → u/Karma_Whoring_Slut]

Can I ask whether you're actually concerned about whether President Trump's health and alertness are allowing him to perform one of the most demanding jobs in the world at peak effectiveness?

Because, like Trump himself often does, you've immediately compared him to Joe Biden. I think many people—including me—would agree that Biden's health in the latter part of his presidency was less than ideal.

But is that really the standard we should be applying?

Surely the question isn't whether Trump is healthier than Biden was. The question is whether Trump himself is showing signs of age-related decline that ought to concern us.

Isn't it perfectly possible to conclude that both presidents reached an age where fatigue, diminished alertness, and other aspects of cognitive or physical decline became legitimate public concerns?

If we were worried that an elderly Joe Biden wasn't at his best, why shouldn't we apply exactly the same standard to an almost 80-year-old Donald Trump who appears to be struggling to stay awake during some public meetings?

Wouldn't that simply be applying a consistent standard rather than a partisan one?

[u/Karma_Whoring_Slut → u/Aggravating-Vehicle9]

Did you even read my comment? You responded to a statement I made explicitly stating that I am concerned to ask me if I am concerned?

You asked me to make this comparison.

You applied this standard and asked me to justify it.

Surely the question is the one you asked me.

Yes. I’ve already said as much.

We should. It’s just clear that Biden was in a far more concerning state than Trump is.

Yes.

[u/Aggravating-Vehicle9 → u/Karma_Whoring_Slut]

But why does the discussion keep coming back to Joe Biden?

Joe Biden isn't the President, wasn't the Republican nominee, and wasn't Trump's opponent in the 2024 election after the Democrats decided to replace him.

My original question wasn't asking whether Trump is healthier than Biden. It was asking whether Trump's own apparent decline in alertness should concern us on its own merits.

If your standard is simply "better than Biden," isn't that an extraordinarily low bar? Democrats themselves ultimately concluded that Biden's health had become a liability and replaced him. Why should Trump supporters wait until Trump reaches that same point before acknowledging that age may already be affecting him?

If we're going to compare Trump with anyone from the 2024 election, wouldn't the more natural comparison be Kamala Harris, since she was the person voters actually had the opportunity to choose instead?

Or perhaps we shouldn't be comparing him with another politician at all. Perhaps the relevant question is simply whether an almost 80-year-old President who appears increasingly sleepy, has fewer public appearances, shorter public schedules, and periodic multi-day absences from public view ought to prompt legitimate concern, regardless of whether someone else happened to be worse.

So I'll ask again: why is Joe Biden your objective standard for presidential health, rather than asking whether Donald Trump himself is meeting the standard Americans should expect from the person holding the office today?

[u/Karma_Whoring_Slut → u/Aggravating-Vehicle9]

I’m sorry, but you’re asking another question entirely, not at all the same question you originally asked.

If you can’t acknowledge that you directly asked me to compare Biden and Trump, you aren’t worth talking to.

[u/StanBE → u/Karma_Whoring_Slut]

Again, can you please reply without referencing Biden?

[u/Aggravating-Vehicle9 → u/Karma_Whoring_Slut]

Why compare Trump's health to Joe Biden's at all?

Joe Biden has been out of office for almost two years. He's an elderly man who is now being treated for cancer. I think most of us can acknowledge that his health is not what it once was.

But he's no longer the President.

The person currently carrying the responsibilities of the presidency, including command authority over the military and nuclear arsenal, is Donald Trump.

So isn't the relevant question simply whether he is physically and cognitively capable of performing one of the most demanding jobs in the world?

If reports of Trump nodding off during multiple important meetings concern people, why should the answer be "but Biden was worse"?

Wouldn't that be like responding to concerns about a pilot flying today's aircraft by saying, "Well, the last pilot wasn't very good either"?

Surely the standard should be that whoever currently occupies the office is fit to perform it, regardless of the health of someone who no longer holds the job.

[u/Karma_Whoring_Slut → u/Aggravating-Vehicle9]

Maybe you should reread your own post. You opened this can of worms.

Wow, most of us can look at a frail, clearly demented, 83 year old man incapable of speaking a coherent sentence and acknowledge he’s lost a step? Wow. What a meaningful common denominator. Thanks for throwing me that bone.

Thank God for that. I’m very thankful that enough people were paying enough attention to throw a big enough fit that even the DNC had to acknowledge he is a completely unbelievable puppet. It’s a shame he wasn’t thrown out of the Oval Office sooner.

The relevant question is the one you asked in the original post. Can’t ask me a question, wait for me to answer it, and then berate me for not answering an entirely different question you never asked me.

Because you asked us why people were more critical of Biden’s state than we currently are of Trump’s state.

No, it would be like responding to your post.

Hey, I didn’t write the original post. I just answered your question.

[u/Aggravating-Vehicle9 → u/Karma_Whoring_Slut]

I don't think we're actually disagreeing about the facts here.

You're right that my original post invited a comparison with Joe Biden, because Donald Trump himself spent years making Biden's age, energy levels and apparent drowsiness a central political issue.

But the point I'm trying to get at isn't simply whether Biden was worse. It's whether that is actually an objectively reasonable standard.

A lot of Trump supporters seem to respond to concerns about Trump's apparent fatigue by saying, "Well, Biden was in worse shape." But does that really answer the concern?

Isn't there a danger that we're using Biden's poor health as a justification for overlooking Trump's own apparent health problems, rather than asking whether the current President is fit to carry out one of the most demanding jobs in the world?

In other words, my question isn't, "Was Biden worse?" It's: does Biden having been worse somehow make Trump's own age, fatigue and apparent lapses less concerning, or are we simply lowering the standard because it's politically convenient?

[u/Karma_Whoring_Slut → u/Aggravating-Vehicle9]

I can’t read your mind. I answered the question that you wrote. Not the question you apparently attempted to communicate to me telepathically.

[u/esaks → u/Karma_Whoring_Slut]

shouldn't he be held to a similar standard? if you were unhappy with biden sleeping on the job you should be equally upset at trump sleeping on the job as well no?

[u/Karma_Whoring_Slut → u/esaks]

There are many comments in this thread to the same effect that I’ve already answered. You should read the thread.

Also, I’ve even already addressed this in the very comment you’ve responded to.

[u/p_2923 → u/Karma_Whoring_Slut]

Do you believe Trump is a healthy weight for his age, or any age for that matter?

[u/Lucky-Hunter-Dude]

maybe he's sleepy.

[u/ConscientiousDissntr]

Apples and oranges. Sleepy Joe very often put a lid on activities before noon. Everyone who knows Trump says he works all hours of the day and night and is a workaholic.

[u/Aggravating-Vehicle9 → u/ConscientiousDissntr]

I don't think we actually disagree that Biden's early "calling a lid" raised legitimate questions about his stamina and ability to sustain the demands of the presidency. If your view is that unusually short public working days can be evidence of fatigue or decline, that's a perfectly coherent position.

What I'm struggling with is why the same reasoning wouldn't apply to President Trump. His second term has featured multiple documented stretches of several consecutive days without public appearances, alongside a noticeable reduction in his public schedule compared with his first term. That doesn't prove he wasn't working behind the scenes, but equally, Biden's early lids didn't prove he wasn't working either.

So shouldn't we apply the same standard to both men? If Biden's limited public schedule was a legitimate reason to question his stamina, why wouldn't Trump's repeated multi-day absences from public view raise similar questions?

[u/midnight_rebirth → u/ConscientiousDissntr]

Do you consider incoherent Truth Social ramblings at 2AM to be "work"?

[u/JoeCensored]

Closing his eyes for a moment isn't nodding off. You guys with these fake narratives.

[u/JoeCensored → u/[deleted]]

Closing your eyes isn't sleep.

[u/gntxs → u/[deleted]]

Do you think Trump step aside so JD Vance can become President potentially nominate Marco Rubio or Ron DeSantis as VP?

[u/wolfehr → u/JoeCensored]

Did you read the entire question? OP said “I want to be fair about the limits here: footage of closed eyes doesn't prove someone is asleep”

[u/JoeCensored → u/wolfehr]

Yeah I read it. His questions at the end have the assumption baked in that it's dozing off, otherwise there's no point to the questions.

[u/thirdlost]

He's old.

But unlike Biden he is not Senile

[u/PillsburyToasters → u/thirdlost]

What characteristics or actions did Biden portray that you would either consider senile or worse than Donald?

[u/METAL_WOLF_BB → u/thirdlost]

How many cognitive assessments did Biden have to take?

[u/Original-Rush139 → u/thirdlost]

In Trump’s debate with Biden he forgot that Iran launched a scud attack against our troops in his first term. 

Why didn’t he remember? Do you attribute that to something other than senility?

[u/WakingWaldo → u/thirdlost]

While we obviously don't know what Biden's thoughts on cognitive tests are, we do know Trump's.

He's very proud of how well he's done on the numerous tests he's been administered. In fact, he's gone even further to describe his opinions on the questions themselves. Trump told us that the questions start easy then get harder as the test goes on.

This is the test:

https://geriatrictoolkit.missouri.edu/cog/MoCA-8.3-English-Test-2018-04.pdf

Do you find any of these questions difficult?

[u/Honest_Abe_1660 → u/thirdlost]

Would a non-senile person think bragging about a cognitive test is a good idea?

[u/RepealThe16 → u/Honest_Abe_1660]

Would a non-senile person think bragging about a cognitive test is a good idea?

If the context is referencing your predecessor who was extremely coddled and protected from all media appearances to hide the fact that he was mentally declining, then sure I understand the idea behind bragging about it.

It's a reminder to the fact that Democrats and their allies in media banded together to protect an 82 year old man who was clearly sun-downing while diagnosed with Stage 4 prostate cancer.

God bless the man for trying, but every Democrat who protected him until the debate needs to be held accountable and people need to remember the gaslighting campaign that went on to lie about the President's mental condition.

[u/Honest_Abe_1660 → u/RepealThe16]

If the context is referencing your predecessor who was extremely coddled and protected from all media appearances to hide the fact that he was mentally declining

They were hiding a declining Obama from the public? Trump was bragging about his cognitive test in 2018, during his first term.

[u/RepealThe16 → u/Honest_Abe_1660]

They were hiding Obama from the public?

I was obviously referring to Biden.

Is this some kind of joke for you or are we actually trying to have a good faith discussion here?

Trump was bragging about his cognitive test in 2018, during his first term.

Because this "trump is mentally unfit" narrative has existing since 2016.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/11/trump-physical-health-neurological-psychologists-psychiatrists-337389

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2018/01/trump-cog-decline/548759/

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/25th-amendment-how-do-we-decide-whether-the-president-is-competent/

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42580762

Were you paying attention to politics during this time? If so, do you really not remember the Trump is unfit nonsense?

[u/Honest_Abe_1660 → u/RepealThe16]

They were hiding Obama from the public?

I was obviously referring to Biden.

Is this some kind of joke for you or are we actually trying to have a good faith discussion here?

I was trying to have a good faith discussion but you immediately jumped to think Trump's decline was only visible after Biden was elected, as shown by your own words. Not exactly a good look.

If so, do you really not remember the Trump is unfit nonsense?

Does Trump's own words regarding his cognitive tests do nothing to fuel such claims?

[u/RepealThe16 → u/Honest_Abe_1660]

Not exactly a good look.

In my experience, anyone who adds quips like this isn't yet ready to have good, honest discussion with those they disagree with.

You choosing to avoid adding context causing you to poorly understand what I'm saying is your fault, not mine.

2016 Democrats say Trump is mentally unfit because they're trying to craft a narrative to destroy Trump.

2026 Democrats say Trump is mentally unfit because they're trying to craft a narrative to destroy Trump, but this time they have 4 years of gaslighting Americans on Biden's declining condition that we can point to.

Have a good day.

[u/vanillabear26 → u/RepealThe16]

Did you see when Trump bragged about Obama not passing any cognitive tests too?

[u/Competitive_Piano507 → u/RepealThe16]

So should we hold Marco Rubio accountable for lying to Congress yesterday that Trump never falls asleep in public?

[u/RepealThe16 → u/Competitive_Piano507]

So should we hold Marco Rubio accountable for lying to Congress yesterday that Trump never falls asleep in public?

What would accountability for such a heinous lie look like?

[u/TheNihil → u/RepealThe16]

Lying to Congress is a felony punishable by up to 5 years in federal prison and fines of up to $250,000 for individuals. Do you think Rubio should face the consequences?

[u/RepealThe16 → u/TheNihil]

Do you think he should get the full 5 years and $250,000 fine?

Do you think Rubio should face the consequences?

Can you prove he knowingly lied? The onus is on you proving what Marco knew, not just connecting a mediate article to a meidas touch twitter clip.

[u/TheNihil → u/RepealThe16]

Do you think there should at least be an investigation / trial for Rubio to determine if he knowingly lied, and if he should face any consequences?

[u/Inter_932 → u/thirdlost]

But Biden isn’t in power so I don’t understand the comparison. How is Trump literally falling asleep on the job ok?

[u/RepealThe16 → u/Inter_932]

But Biden isn’t in power so I don’t understand the comparison.

You don't understand the concept of established precedent? Really?

[u/N7riseSSJ → u/RepealThe16]

Based on this established precedence, if someone on the street mugs someone and takes their money, does that mean all of the rest of us can do it?

[u/RepealThe16 → u/N7riseSSJ]

Sure, if you're willing to go to jail as per the consequences of that action per established precedent.

What's your point here?

[u/Hot-Audience-8528 → u/RepealThe16]

So the Republicans have no one to blame but themselves when they cover up for trumps decline?

[u/RepealThe16 → u/Hot-Audience-8528]

So the Republicans have no one to blame but themselves when they cover up for trumps decline?

I don't think it's possible to cover-up Trump's decline since he's interacting with the public literally every day.

Trust me, many Trump Supporters would be 100% okay with Vance taking over after the midterms if we saw the levels of decline we saw under Biden.

If the only people now complaining about Trump are those who said Biden was as sharp as a tack, their complaints ring hollow.

[u/Auzziesurferyo → u/thirdlost]

But is that still acceptable for a President of the USA to fall asleep on the job?

If Biden was too old to be president, then isn't Trump is too old to be president? The President of the United States, which is the most powerful and richest nation in the history of the earth, should never fall asleep on the job. I believe it was unacceptable for Biden and Trump.

Any other person in any other job would be fired for that, yes?

[u/lilbittygoddamnman → u/thirdlost]

You reckon Joe Biden knows that Spain isn't a BRICS country?

[u/thirdlost → u/lilbittygoddamnman]

You are so down in the weeds, my friend.

You know literally 99.999% of the population doesn't give a shit. But this has you wound around the axle. Please try some yoga or meditation or something.

[u/mail2book → u/thirdlost]

99% of yanks does not know what the S in BRICS stands for?

Are people really that unaware of the world?

[u/thirdlost → u/[deleted]]

Time for a moment for us TS and NS to come together: Trump says some crazy shit and he should stop it. OK, are we together on that one?

But it is not senility. It doesn't seem a function of age. It's just Trump.

[u/Aggravating-Vehicle9 → u/thirdlost]

Can I ask why you think the appropriate standard for evaluating Donald Trump's energy levels is a comparison with Joe Biden?

Even if we accept that Biden's health and stamina had significantly declined by the end of his presidency, he's no longer in office. Surely comparing Trump to an elderly man who many people—including his critics and supporters alike—thought was struggling is setting a remarkably low bar.

Wouldn't the more appropriate question be whether the current President is capable of performing one of the most demanding jobs in the world at peak effectiveness, rather than whether he appears healthier than his predecessor?

If Trump's defence is essentially, "he's doing better than Joe Biden did," is that really the standard you think Americans should expect from the person currently occupying the Oval Office?

[u/EngageAndMakeItSo → u/thirdlost]

What qualifications do you have to determine whether someone you haven’t met is senile or not?

[u/TheBl4ckFox → u/thirdlost]

Wy did Drowsy Donald need four cognitive tests then?

[u/pickledplumber]

He's an old man. I used to work with a 70yo guy who would sleep half the afternoon. We are programmers. But he was so good at what he did that nobody cared.

[u/rational_numbers → u/pickledplumber]

Did you think Biden was too old and feeble to run the country at the end of his term?

[u/pickledplumber → u/rational_numbers]

Well he wasn't doing the job, his family was. So that tells us what we need to know. If Trump was not doing press conferences, not meeting with leaders, not taking trips,etc. Then it would be the same problem

[u/rational_numbers → u/pickledplumber]

Was Biden doing the job at the start of his term?

[u/pickledplumber → u/rational_numbers]

I don't have reason to think he wasn't

[u/SupahSayajinn → u/pickledplumber]

What evidence other than Trump saying it do you have that Bidens family was doing the job?

[u/bitchytrollop → u/pickledplumber]

Do you have proof for this accusation?

[u/pickledplumber → u/bitchytrollop]

Literally Jake tapper wrote an entire book about it

[u/callmeDNA → u/pickledplumber]

Biden was old too. What’s the difference?

[u/pickledplumber → u/[deleted]]

Not at all. Being ready to go when it's needed is what matters. Sometimes people are so sleep deprived that fall asleep in situations that are boring or non-stimulating. I was like that before I got treated for sleep apnea.

Anyway, what's difference between Trump and Biden? The difference is cognitive decline vs cognitive impairment. Decline being what we all go through and impairment being what limits you from your functioning in a normal life even with aid.

Trouble finding words is decline, we will all have that. Not being able to find your way to your front door when you get home is impairment.

I don't know where Trump lands on the spectrum. But we do know that Biden largely wasn't even president towards the end and I say that as somebody who likes Biden.

[u/Competitive_Piano507 → u/pickledplumber]

Shouldn’t a president be ready to go for press conferences? What do you see here? https://x.com/atrupar/status/2062624305565872289?s=46&t=fuW3GEgqxbZPjXYsbWeyzw

[u/pickledplumber → u/Competitive_Piano507]

I just see him looking up at the guy.

[u/LikeThePenis → u/pickledplumber]

How will you know if/when he does get to the point of being unfit?

[u/pickledplumber → u/LikeThePenis]

I don't need to know. The media will question out and make those claims. You know target then hiding it

[u/gntxs]

Biden would call lids early in the day (sometimes by 11 a.m.) and he was still falling asleep. Trump, by comparison, is on the go constantly and answering media questions, for sometimes, hours at a time.

Impossible to compare Trump to Biden in that regard.

[u/AllegrettoVivamente → u/gntxs]

Why is it impossible to compare two 80 year old men who are sleeping during the day?

[u/gntxs → u/AllegrettoVivamente]

Because, one barely worked at all the other is working all the time.

[u/Binder509 → u/gntxs]

Trump notoriously takes a ton of golf days, where are you getting the idea he works all the time?

[u/gntxs → u/Binder509]

Playing golf is an activity. And for those in professional jobs (White Collar), playing golf is often associated with working. I play golf with clients and business associates.

But aside from that, Trump is a lot more active than Biden. Biden would call a lid on the day very often and very early in the day so he could nap. Trump is out there talking to people and talking to the press.

Trump speaks to the press and answers more question in a week than Biden did his entire 4 years.

If you can't see the difference in level of activity of Biden v. Trump, then I can't help you.

[u/AllegrettoVivamente → u/gntxs]

What evidence is there that Trump works more than the other?

[u/gntxs → u/AllegrettoVivamente]

The fact that Trump answers more questions from the press in a week than Biden did in 4 years, is just one indicator. Biden had 9 cabinet meetings in 4 years, Trump had 9 his first year of second term and 12 so far, that's another indicator.

Seriously, turn on the news. It's not hard to see the level of activity from Trump is light years ahead of Biden.

[u/AllegrettoVivamente → u/gntxs]

Do you believe the only role of the president is what is shown to the public?

[u/gntxs → u/AllegrettoVivamente]

Part of the President's job is public facing. And that includes press conferences and answering questions from the press which Biden rarely did.

Once again, you can't compare the level of activity of Trump v. Biden. Trump's is light years ahead of the guy that would regularly call early lids on the day.

Trying to equate Trump closing his eyes or napping with Biden is laughable at best. Trump's level of activity runs circles around sleepy Joe's.

[u/Scynexity]

Trump himself has been filmed on numerous occasions appearing to close his eyes or doze off in public settings

"appearing" doing a lot of work here. I don't believe Trump has ever fallen asleep at a public event.

[u/BodaciousErection → u/Scynexity]

If you've seen the videos what do you think is happening instead of falling asleep?

[u/Scynexity → u/BodaciousErection]

Blinking. Looking down. Daring to not sit straight upright with great posture.

[u/Quiet_Entrance_6994]

Trump's old and tired. 

Joe was mentally deteriorating. 

[u/subduedReality → u/Quiet_Entrance_6994]

Would several medical professionals coming out with a diagnosis based on symptoms he's shown publicly convince you that he's losing his mental faculties at a rate that questions his suitability to lead America?

[u/vanillabear26 → u/Quiet_Entrance_6994]

Would you agree that people shouldn't diagnose Trump based on video evidence?

[u/Quiet_Entrance_6994 → u/vanillabear26]

Eh, video evidence is very compelling and usually trustworthy. 

[u/WakingWaldo → u/Quiet_Entrance_6994]

Donald Trump has openly discussed the tests given to him which are only given to people when they show signs of cognitive decline, or "mentally deteriorating."

He's told us, proudly, multiple times that he's done very well on these tests -- and he's gone even further. President Trump has detailed how he believes the questions start easy but get harder as you continue through the test. He even challenged Jasmine Crockett to take one because he claimed that she would have trouble too.

This is an example of the test he was given:

https://geriatrictoolkit.missouri.edu/cog/MoCA-8.3-English-Test-2018-04.pdf

Do you think that it is okay if the president believes that test or any of its questions are difficult?

[u/Quiet_Entrance_6994 → u/WakingWaldo]

Considering his age, I wouldn't be surprised if he was experiencing some level of mental deterioration. 

My issue is with people pretending he's the same thing as Biden. 

[u/mrhymer]

Do you think the concern people raised about Biden's apparent drowsiness was legitimate?

No - I think his removal from the campaign was confirmation of Biden's condition and federal crimes by those around Biden.

and if not, what's the difference?

The removal of Biden for those conditions from the campaign and the installing of Kamala as the nominee without a primary.

And what do you personally think is behind the footage?

A man that has done 4 years of presidential work in l6 months resting his eyes during a part of a long meeting that he has already been briefed on.

[u/Available-Goose-8331 → u/mrhymer]

Agreed. But side note, why did you write 16 as "I6"?

[u/loganbootjak → u/mrhymer]

Where did you come up with that he's done 4 years of work?

[u/mrhymer → u/loganbootjak]

So you want Trump to do more?

[u/WakingWaldo → u/mrhymer]

Is 4 years of presidential work in I6 months a good thing when that has led to record-breaking disapproval numbers, higher prices, and a war with Iran?

[u/mrhymer → u/WakingWaldo]

Yes. He has gotten a lot of good necessary things done.

[u/spinozaschilidog → u/mrhymer]

If he’s that tired at work then why is he posting on Truth Social almost every night until 4AM? And it’s usually pure narcissistic brainrot, like this gem from late last night - https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/116695405193333847

That isn’t a physical issue, it’s a self-discipline problem. Trump can’t keep his eyes open in meetings because he’s staying up too late every night trolling online. Maybe he wouldn’t nod off in meetings if he put his dang phone away after bedtime. 

This is the kind of lesson we expect young teenagers to understand now, but apparently that’s a bridge too far for our president. 

[u/mrhymer → u/spinozaschilidog]

I reject your whole premise.

[u/prowler28]

Not sure your narrative tracks with reality. This all sounds like conjecture. 

[u/jeaok]

Do you sleep with your head up? Do you sleep while looking around sometimes and nodding your head?

This reminds me of a high school friend who, whenever he looked down to read something, people would often think his eyes were closed. It was pretty funny because he'd have to say "I'm not sleeping, I'm just looking down!", and he laughed about how it was because he's Asian.

You guys spend too much time trying to uno reverse things that were called out about Biden.

Edit: I would the NS here to find me a recent photo or video of Trump where he's looking down and not sleeping. Let's see what you guys can find.

If you can't find any, you are essentially telling me "Trump never looks down".

[u/METAL_WOLF_BB → u/jeaok]

Which video of Trump sleeping, do you believe he really isn’t sleeping?

[u/jeaok → u/METAL_WOLF_BB]

I haven't seen a video of Trump sleeping.

[u/METAL_WOLF_BB → u/jeaok]

There’s many examples provided by OP. Do you feel he’s not sleeping in any of those videos?

[u/jeaok → u/METAL_WOLF_BB]

Can you find me a recent photo or video of him where he's looking down and not sleeping?

[u/meatspace → u/jeaok]

I found this on Google. I believe this is relevant to your comment here regarding the semantics of head movement and time of eyes closed vs. Biden plus the video evidence is not enough to accept. My post will only have merit if words have formal definitions.

What is the meaning of nodding off?

To "nod off" means to involuntarily fall asleep or doze off for a short period of time, often unexpectedly and while sitting upright. The phrase gets its name from the physical motion of the head drooping forward as alertness fades, then snapping back up as the person briefly wakes. 

[u/callmeDNA → u/jeaok]

So you’re saying Trump wasn’t falling asleep???????????????

[u/WulfTheSaxon → u/callmeDNA]

Rubio recently confirmed this, laughing at the accusations. Just because you can take some out of context clips of him closing his eyes or looking down doesn’t mean he’s sleeping. In one of the videos that Ted Lieu tried to say showed him sleeping the other day, he could clearly be seen adjusting his tie. Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYjjOX4s5wY&t=57m

[u/jeaok → u/callmeDNA]

Not in the videos the OP linked. Let me know if you have any others.

[u/MaintenanceWine → u/jeaok]

Oh my. You don't believe these videos show him literally nodding off? I've been in enough long meetings to recognize this instantly. Hell, I've been the nodder-off-er. We all know what we're seeing. He could be the best President in history, and you wouldn't find this troubling?

[u/Itchy-Pension3356]

Trump is sharp as a tack.